The R Word

lavendergiraffes

I know we haven't seen it in a while - thank God - but just in case. I thought this was fitting....

..... also, my awesome self posted this to April 2014 first. Yup, I'm done with my brain.

pistolpackinmomma

My only complaint with it is that it can be used in a PC way that is totally acceptable. For example, the timing belt on your car is retarded. It's not to mean that the timing is stupid but that it is slow, but the technical term is to say retarded. Also, when I worked at subway we put the frozen sticks of bread in the retarder which was a box in the fridge that allowed it to slowly thaw out.

dp1320

@pistolpackinmomma - fellow former sandwich artist here! I still can't walk in there without the smell seeping into my skin...

KBowen715

It isn't about being

pistolpackinmomma said:

My only complaint with it is that it can be used in a PC way that is totally acceptable. For example, the timing belt on your car is retarded. It's not to mean that the timing is stupid but that it is slow, but the technical term is to say retarded. Also, when I worked at subway we put the frozen sticks of bread in the retarder which was a box in the fridge that allowed it to slowly thaw out.

pistolpackinmomma said:

My only complaint with it is that it can be used in a PC way that is totally acceptable. For example, the timing belt on your car is retarded. It's not to mean that the timing is stupid but that it is slow, but the technical term is to say retarded. Also, when I worked at subway we put the frozen sticks of bread in the retarder which was a box in the fridge that allowed it to slowly thaw out.

pistolpackinmomma said:

My only complaint with it is that it can be used in a PC way that is totally acceptable. For example, the timing belt on your car is retarded. It's not to mean that the timing is stupid but that it is slow, but the technical term is to say retarded. Also, when I worked at subway we put the frozen sticks of bread in the retarder which was a box in the fridge that allowed it to slowly thaw out.

It isn't about being PC, it is about being relevant, intelligent, and culturally informed. Your timing belt is not rerarded, it is broken. DSM-V names MR as ID now.

50 years ago, there were different terms for African Americans that were socially acceptable that no longer are. Because the referred population was offended, and that's why it has changed. So while YOU may be fine with the term, the affected population is not- therefore, you need to change your terminology.

I hope ignorance dies faster than the use of the R word.

KBowen715

And, getting heated while on mobile on my way in to work (with above suggested populations) makes for poor posting.

pistolpackinmomma

No the belt is not broken in that case. It is just slowed down. I agree that it should never be used out of frustration or in reference to a person but sometimes the word is needed. I see a very big difference between a mechanic using it properly and someone being ignorant.

pistolpackinmomma

DH09072012 said:

@pistolpackinmomma - fellow former sandwich artist here! I still can't walk in there without the smell seeping into my skin...

Same here. It's been almost 10 years since I worked there and it still gets me.

awc1986

@KBowen715‌ - I think you've missed @pistolpackinmomma‌ 's point. If it's a technical term then it is in no way derogatory. By your reasoning, we need to refer to anything that could be classed as colored (ie, I prefer the red colored car) as African American (I prefer the red African American car). This doesn't make sense. On the same note, how many people here own an American Coon cat? I'm sorry, American African American cat. Do you see? 99.9% of people know when a word is being used as a derogatory term, or a technical term.

pistolpackinmomma

Also, if we're banning all words that are derogatory can I no longer say I gay when meaning happy? Ya know, because some people use gay in a negative sense.

Thank you @awc1986‌ for seeing my point! I was starting to think I was failing to explain it properly.

awc1986

@pistolpackinmomma‌ - I thought it was pretty clear tbh, but if PP wants to be offended by words being used in different contexts, she's gonna have to get used to a long life of being offended. There's a difference between saying "ugh, that's gay" and an old movie being described as "a gay musical!". It's all about context and learning what is appropriate. Not re-writing the dictionary.

ABColeslaw

Or the musical term retardando.  I mean yes there is a use for the word.  And PP no one gets more offended than I over the use of the "r" word, but I get what Pistolblackmama was saying. 

frasey

 

IBackBevo

pistolpackinmomma said:

My only complaint with it is that it can be used in a PC way that is totally acceptable. For example, the timing belt on your car is retarded. It's not to mean that the timing is stupid but that it is slow, but the technical term is to say retarded. Also, when I worked at subway we put the frozen sticks of bread in the retarder which was a box in the fridge that allowed it to slowly thaw out.

I used to work at Subway, too!  Way back in high school. I liked it.  One of the reasons that I actually eat there now is that I know the national chain was always so meticulous about its standards for food handling, storage, etc.  I feel like the odds of getting sick from the food are really low.

pistolpackinmomma

IBackBevo said:

pistolpackinmomma said:

My only complaint with it is that it can be used in a PC way that is totally acceptable. For example, the timing belt on your car is retarded. It's not to mean that the timing is stupid but that it is slow, but the technical term is to say retarded. Also, when I worked at subway we put the frozen sticks of bread in the retarder which was a box in the fridge that allowed it to slowly thaw out.

I used to work at Subway, too!  Way back in high school. I liked it.  One of the reasons that I actually eat there now is that I know the national chain was always so meticulous about its standards for food handling, storage, etc.  I feel like the odds of getting sick from the food are really low.


Yes the risks are low. The only way I eat it is if DH brings it to me. Otherwise I swear I smell like it for a week!

KBowen715

awc1986 said:

@pistolpackinmomma‌ - I thought it was pretty clear tbh, but if PP wants to be offended by words being used in different contexts, she's gonna have to get used to a long life of being offended. There's a difference between saying "ugh, that's gay" and an old movie being described as "a gay musical!".

It's all about context and learning what is appropriate. Not re-writing the dictionary.

My point is, I believe it is up to the group of affected individuals. I think banning the R word extends far beyond being PC. I think it is about taking the feelings of others into consideration.

I don't think you explained poorly; I think we have a difference of opinions. Which is what makes for healthy debates.

IBackBevo

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

Inappropriate: If I say to my coworker, "Hey, Retard, you filed this pleading in the wrong court!"

Appropriate: If I say to my coworker, "I am concerned about my baby's growth because my first son had intra uterine growth retardation." Or, if I still worked at Subway, if I said to a coworker, "Hey, make sure you put the bread in the retarder before you leave today."

ABColeslaw

IBackBevo said:

I don't understand why this is such a difficult concept to grasp.

Inappropriate: If I say to my coworker, "Hey, Retard, you filed this pleading in the wrong court!"

Appropriate: If I say to my coworker, "I am concerned about my baby's growth because my first son had intra uterine growth retardation." Or, if I still worked at Subway, if I said to a coworker, "Hey, make sure you put the bread in the retarder before you leave today."

Not difficult to understand...completely get it and so does everyone else, aside from the PP who I think is stuck on her point. 

RedInLove

ABColeslaw said: Or the musical term retardando.  I mean yes there is a use for the word.  And PP no one gets more offended than I over the use of the "r" word, but I get what Pistolblackmama was saying.  Just what I was going to say. I have music with "ritard.", "rit.", or "ritardando" written all over it. Not offensive, it's a musical term just like "decresc." and all the others.

awc1986

KBowen715 said:

@pistolpackinmomma‌ - I thought it was pretty clear tbh, but if PP wants to be offended by words being used in different contexts, she's gonna have to get used to a long life of being offended. There's a difference between saying "ugh, that's gay" and an old movie being described as "a gay musical!". It's all about context and learning what is appropriate. Not re-writing the dictionary.

My point is, I believe it is up to the group of affected individuals. I think banning the R word extends far beyond being PC. I think it is about taking the feelings of others into consideration. I don't think you explained poorly; I think we have a difference of opinions. Which is what makes for healthy debates.

How are you supposed to take feelings into account when calling something by it's technical term? "Please don't call that material flame retardant! It's offensive!", or "Would you mind not calling your cat an American coon? It might offend my black co-worker". 

My point is that most people know the different between a technical term being used in the correct context and a lazy person using an inappropriate word as a derogatory remark. If you want to get upset over the former, then that's your prerogative. Just be prepared to be offended for most of your life.

Edit: Spelling is hard.

Empireceo

Anyone else find it weird that this discussion is happening even though no one has used the term in an offensive way lately? It smells like pot-stirring to me.

KBowen715

kitchencolors said:

ABColeslaw said:

Or the musical term retardando.  I mean yes there is a use for the word.  And PP no one gets more offended than I over the use of the "r" word, but I get what Pistolblackmama was saying. 

I agree.

Also wanted to add that the phrase "mentally retarded" is still used (widely?) in clinical practice.  Not sure how that fits into anything.


Mentally Retarded was outted by new qualifying criteria- Intellectually Disabled. This change occurred with DSM-V.

We don't use it in practice. It is a recent change, however.

KBowen715

awc1986 said:

KBowen715 said:

awc1986 said:

@pistolpackinmomma‌ - I thought it was pretty clear tbh, but if PP wants to be offended by words being used in different contexts, she's gonna have to get used to a long life of being offended. There's a difference between saying "ugh, that's gay" and an old movie being described as "a gay musical!".

It's all about context and learning what is appropriate. Not re-writing the dictionary.

My point is, I believe it is up to the group of affected individuals. I think banning the R word extends far beyond being PC. I think it is about taking the feelings of others into consideration.

I don't think you explained poorly; I think we have a difference of opinions. Which is what makes for healthy debates.

How are you supposed to take feelings into account when calling something by it's technical term? "Please don't call that material flame retardant! It's offensive!", or "Would you mind not calling your cat an American coon? It might offend my black co-worker". 

My point is that most people know the different between a technical term being used in the correct context and a lazy person using an inappropriate word as a derogatory remark. If you want to get upset over the former, then that's your prerogative. Just be prepared to be offended for most of your life.

Edit: Spelling is hard.

I never disagreed with using actual terms correctly.

awc1986

KBowen715 said:

KBowen715 said:

@pistolpackinmomma‌ - I thought it was pretty clear tbh, but if PP wants to be offended by words being used in different contexts, she's gonna have to get used to a long life of being offended. There's a difference between saying "ugh, that's gay" and an old movie being described as "a gay musical!". It's all about context and learning what is appropriate. Not re-writing the dictionary.

My point is, I believe it is up to the group of affected individuals. I think banning the R word extends far beyond being PC. I think it is about taking the feelings of others into consideration. I don't think you explained poorly; I think we have a difference of opinions. Which is what makes for healthy debates.

How are you supposed to take feelings into account when calling something by it's technical term? "Please don't call that material flame retardant! It's offensive!", or "Would you mind not calling your cat an American coon? It might offend my black co-worker". 

My point is that most people know the different between a technical term being used in the correct context and a lazy person using an inappropriate word as a derogatory remark. If you want to get upset over the former, then that's your prerogative. Just be prepared to be offended for most of your life.

Edit: Spelling is hard.

I never disagreed with using actual terms correctly.

"It isn't about being PC, it is about being relevant, intelligent, and culturally informed. Your timing belt is not rerarded, it is broken. DSM-V names MR as ID now."

…beg your pardon? 

:-?

KBowen715

awc1986 said:

KBowen715 said:

awc1986 said:

@pistolpackinmomma‌ - I thought it was pretty clear tbh, but if PP wants to be offended by words being used in different contexts, she's gonna have to get used to a long life of being offended. There's a difference between saying "ugh, that's gay" and an old movie being described as "a gay musical!".

It's all about context and learning what is appropriate. Not re-writing the dictionary.

My point is, I believe it is up to the group of affected individuals. I think banning the R word extends far beyond being PC. I think it is about taking the feelings of others into consideration.

I don't think you explained poorly; I think we have a difference of opinions. Which is what makes for healthy debates.

How are you supposed to take feelings into account when calling something by it's technical term? "Please don't call that material flame retardant! It's offensive!", or "Would you mind not calling your cat an American coon? It might offend my black co-worker". 

My point is that most people know the different between a technical term being used in the correct context and a lazy person using an inappropriate word as a derogatory remark. If you want to get upset over the former, then that's your prerogative. Just be prepared to be offended for most of your life.

Edit: Spelling is hard.

I never disagreed with using actual terms correctly.

awc1986 said:

KBowen715 said:

KBowen715 said:

awc1986 said:

@pistolpackinmomma‌ - I thought it was pretty clear tbh, but if PP wants to be offended by words being used in different contexts, she's gonna have to get used to a long life of being offended. There's a difference between saying "ugh, that's gay" and an old movie being described as "a gay musical!".

It's all about context and learning what is appropriate. Not re-writing the dictionary.

My point is, I believe it is up to the group of affected individuals. I think banning the R word extends far beyond being PC. I think it is about taking the feelings of others into consideration.

I don't think you explained poorly; I think we have a difference of opinions. Which is what makes for healthy debates.

How are you supposed to take feelings into account when calling something by it's technical term? "Please don't call that material flame retardant! It's offensive!", or "Would you mind not calling your cat an American coon? It might offend my black co-worker". 

My point is that most people know the different between a technical term being used in the correct context and a lazy person using an inappropriate word as a derogatory remark. If you want to get upset over the former, then that's your prerogative. Just be prepared to be offended for most of your life.

Edit: Spelling is hard.

I never disagreed with using actual terms correctly.

"It isn't about being PC, it is about being relevant, intelligent, and culturally informed. Your timing belt is not rerarded, it is broken. DSM-V names MR as ID now."

…beg your pardon? 

:-?


....I'm not sure what you're questioning here.

Actual terms being used correctly= okay.

Substituting the word 'retarded' for 'slow'= not okay.

Not sure why you're confused.

If your child's clinical care provider is still, in 2014, using 'mentally retarded', they are using out of date material. DSM-V switch happened in May 2013, with insurance qualifying material lasting until end of calendar. Insurance qualifying factors are now ID.

KBowen715

And I can't quote block from mobile, apparently.

awc1986

@KBowen715 - Your posts are full of contradictions. Please re-read them and then maybe you'll realise why other posters have apparently "misunderstood" you. 

Roufi

Substituting "retarded" for slow? Considering that that is the meaning of the word, or more along the lines of "delayed", the usage that you criticized @KBowen715‌ makes perfect sense.
Unless you are suggesting that someone with intellectual disabilities is slow? Your linguistic gymnastics are making my head hurt...
Basically, big difference in using the word in the appropriate context, and using it as a slur or with a negative connotation. Just because that connotation exists, it doesn't mean that the word itself has no relevance in proper context.

Ed b/c prefer the use of intellectual over mental

Lisababy14

KBowen715 said:

awc1986 said:

KBowen715 said:

awc1986 said:

@pistolpackinmomma‌ - I thought it was pretty clear tbh, but if PP wants to be offended by words being used in different contexts, she's gonna have to get used to a long life of being offended. There's a difference between saying "ugh, that's gay" and an old movie being described as "a gay musical!".

It's all about context and learning what is appropriate. Not re-writing the dictionary.

My point is, I believe it is up to the group of affected individuals. I think banning the R word extends far beyond being PC. I think it is about taking the feelings of others into consideration.

I don't think you explained poorly; I think we have a difference of opinions. Which is what makes for healthy debates.

How are you supposed to take feelings into account when calling something by it's technical term? "Please don't call that material flame retardant! It's offensive!", or "Would you mind not calling your cat an American coon? It might offend my black co-worker". 

My point is that most people know the different between a technical term being used in the correct context and a lazy person using an inappropriate word as a derogatory remark. If you want to get upset over the former, then that's your prerogative. Just be prepared to be offended for most of your life.

Edit: Spelling is hard.

I never disagreed with using actual terms correctly.

awc1986 said:

KBowen715 said:

KBowen715 said:

awc1986 said:

@pistolpackinmomma‌ - I thought it was pretty clear tbh, but if PP wants to be offended by words being used in different contexts, she's gonna have to get used to a long life of being offended. There's a difference between saying "ugh, that's gay" and an old movie being described as "a gay musical!".

It's all about context and learning what is appropriate. Not re-writing the dictionary.

My point is, I believe it is up to the group of affected individuals. I think banning the R word extends far beyond being PC. I think it is about taking the feelings of others into consideration.

I don't think you explained poorly; I think we have a difference of opinions. Which is what makes for healthy debates.

How are you supposed to take feelings into account when calling something by it's technical term? "Please don't call that material flame retardant! It's offensive!", or "Would you mind not calling your cat an American coon? It might offend my black co-worker". 

My point is that most people know the different between a technical term being used in the correct context and a lazy person using an inappropriate word as a derogatory remark. If you want to get upset over the former, then that's your prerogative. Just be prepared to be offended for most of your life.

Edit: Spelling is hard.

I never disagreed with using actual terms correctly.

"It isn't about being PC, it is about being relevant, intelligent, and culturally informed. Your timing belt is not rerarded, it is broken. DSM-V names MR as ID now."

…beg your pardon? 

:-?


....I'm not sure what you're questioning here.

Actual terms being used correctly= okay.

Substituting the word 'retarded' for 'slow'= not okay.

Not sure why you're confused.

If your child's clinical care provider is still, in 2014, using 'mentally retarded', they are using out of date material. DSM-V switch happened in May 2013,
with insurance qualifying material lasting until end of calendar. Insurance qualifying factors are now ID.


The switch to DSM-5 has not been supported by most practitioners and likely will never be fully adopted as most are switching to ICD codes. ICD still lists mental retardation. Not even the NIMH is using DSM 5. So yes, as a practitioner I still use mentally retarded and it is more than acceptable and I work at an APA accredited university with a mental health clinic.

pistolpackinmomma

@KBowen715‌ I think you are confused on many things. You say you are ok with it being used by the technical definition but you're not ok with it being used to mean slow. May I ask what you believe the technical definition is?

Just in case if you can't figure it out the oxford dictionary can help.

https://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/retard

pistolpackinmomma

And I'm sorry but mentally handicapped or mentally retarded sounds a lot less offensive than intellectually delayed. Intellectually delayed just sounds like someone is stupid, not that they have an actual medical condition.

awc1986

pistolpackinmomma said:

@KBowen715‌ I think you are confused on many things. You say you are ok with it being used by the technical definition but you're not ok with it being used to mean slow. May I ask what you believe the technical definition is? Just in case if you can't figure it out the oxford dictionary can help. https://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/retard

KBowen715

No, I am not okay with it being a substitute for slow when used in a derogatory manner.

I also work in a university clinic. MR is no longer an accepted code. It may vary state to state- I have not checked other state coding.

I'm glad you guys don't get offended at the use of the R word. The families I work with do, and for that, I respect their feelings.

ErikaLynn75

Oh FFS this thread is still going on? We all agree that it's wrong to use the R word in a derogatory manner. The only issue here is that KBowen doesn't know anything about timing belts. I think it's time to let this go. 

awc1986

KBowen715 said:

No, I am not okay with it being a substitute for slow when used in a derogatory manner. I also work in a university clinic. MR is no longer an accepted code. It may vary state to state- I have not checked other state coding. I'm glad you guys don't get offended at the use of the R word. The families I work with do, and for that, I respect their feelings.

Point missed, once again. 

We do get offended at it being used inappropriately, but how can you get offended at it being used in the correct context?

I'd absolutely LOVE to see what @ABColeslaw has to say in response to the bolded. 

KBowen715

ErikaLynn75 said:

Oh FFS this thread is still going on? We all agree that it's wrong to use the R word in a derogatory manner. The only issue here is that KBowen doesn't know anything about timing belts. I think it's time to let this go. 

I won't deny knowing nothing about timing belts.

SMM1986

KBowen715 said:

No, I am not okay with it being a substitute for slow when used in a derogatory manner.

I also work in a university clinic. MR is no longer an accepted code. It may vary state to state- I have not checked other state coding.

I'm glad you guys don't get offended at the use of the R word. The families I work with do, and for that, I respect their feelings.

As a coder, MR is still consistently documented and coded (see codes in the 317-319 category) in the records I deal with on a daily basis (I work for a large acute care hospital with a psych unit). I live in PA if that makes a difference. I have never ever heard of rejection of a claim for use of these codes.
Just throwing that in there.

KBowen715

kitchencolors said:

KBowen715 said:

No, I am not okay with it being a substitute for slow when used in a derogatory manner.

I also work in a university clinic. MR is no longer an accepted code. It may vary state to state- I have not checked other state coding.

I'm glad you guys don't get offended at the use of the R word. The families I work with do, and for that, I respect their feelings.

FFS, I never said I wasn't offended.  I never said that it was acceptable clinical language or that it was standard.  I said it is still used in a clinical setting.  That is my personal experience as a parent of a child with Down syndrome.  I made no claims about it being okay or not do to so.

No one said it was acceptable to use in a derogatory manner.  NO ONE. 

If you want to start trading credentials about who is more entitled to have big feelings about the whole thing, we can certainly do that.  I don't feel like it's remotely constructive, so I didn't go there at first.  But again, if you want to go there we can.  I'm pretty sure I win.


I've never thought throwing credentials around was important, nor do I feel it is about 'winning'. I think everyone plays an integral role- as child, parent, physician, therapist, researcher. Missing any one key would make the team incomplete.


I also have a child with different needs. He does not have Down Syndrome, though his needs humble me daily to never feel 'above' the parents/caretaker of the patients I serve.

IBackBevo

I can't believe this thread is still going, but to back up what @kitchencolors said, "mental retardation" is most definitely still used in clinical settings.
The ICD-10 (International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems) codes (i.e. medical coding, insurance coding) from the World Health Organization there is still a mental retardation diagnosis.  These are the codes doctors and practitioners use to get paid from insurance companies.  

Here is an entire guide on appropriate diagnosis:

https://www.who.int/mental_health/media/en/69.pdf

This is not that complex.  Just don't use the r-word in common language as a substitute for a derogatory term like stupid, clumsy, ill-advised, broken, etc.

lavendergiraffes

Empireceo said:

Anyone else find it weird that this discussion is happening even though no one has used the term in an offensive way lately? It smells like pot-stirring to me.

Whoa! I didn't post it to stir a pot! Sorry peeps.... I have someone at work who uses it ALL the time and it drives me nuts. And I work at an elementary school. I saw this on Facebook and wanted to share. :-/