newborn around unvaxed kids?

Mattingly23

forgive me if this has been asked before, but my friend doesnt vax her kids (age 4 and 1) because her husband is allergic to a lot of medications. I don't know how to feel about bringing my newborn around her kids before my kid has gotten his vax's... how do you guys feel? 

luvmybundle

i would just tell her my concerns about having her kids around the baby who hasn't been vaccinated yet.  she should understand and not have any issues with that.

Avion22

I would not let the baby be around unvaccinated kids.  I'm not really sure I understand what her husband's allergies have to do with her kids being vaccinated, but she's probably just as worried about them getting sick as you are about your LO getting sick.   I'm sure she'll understand.

maelic

I wouldn't, at the very least until my child had his or her vaccinations. 

If she's concerned that her kids might share the allergies that her husband has she should talk to her pediatrician about vaccinating in a controlled hospital setting. If they're allergic to "medications" they absolutely would benefit from not needing medications to fight common diseases that vaccines can prevent. 

WashingtonQueen

I would not have my baby around unvaxed people if I could avoid it.
I really don't understand her excuse though. It doesn't make any sense to me.

nallen14

I would keep away for now, just because better safe than sorry right? I'd also ask my pediatrician specifically when he/she would be safe to be exposed to unvaccinated children. Some vaccines take a while to take affect (tdap takes a month) and just like Redhead Baker said the shots are a series so the baby isn't fully protected after it. 

As for her choice to not vax I think a few women are being a bit judgmental. On my husband's side most of his siblings (he has 7 so when I say most it's a significant percentage) had an allergic reaction from vaccines as babies and actually ended up getting very sick, that being said I still plan on having my daughter vaccinated. My point is people have their reasons and vaccinating is a personal decision parents should make together and no one has the right to judge them based off of that decision.  

nallen14

Didn't mean to get your panties in a bunch. Do you know how rare cases like Jenny McCarthy are? Take a chill pill. I agree vaccinating is important but vaccines don't guarantee perfect health either. One of my good friends just had her baby boy vaccinated TWICE for the flu (once early this year and again recently since it's flu season) yet her daycare called today while we were at work to tell her that he still got the flu anyways and had to be picked up to protect the other children. I think all of us here as expectant mothers can agree that no one would do anything to intentionally harm another child, we all are just trying to think about what's best for our child. 

nallen14

I hardly count your internet research as a valid source. I suggest you read this article: https://www.ageofautism.com/2011/02/vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-children-some-data-are-in-and-they-are-disturbing-.html, It's an actual research study that was conducted recently in Africa that showed that some common vaccines have actually harmed more infants than the amount of infants they've helped. Again, personally I plan on vaccinating my daughter but I will NEVER judge a mother who doesn't. I would hardly call a parent who did research and made an educated decision not to vaccine their child as "taking a passive approach to healthcare". 

Second, if not having your child vaccinated was as dangerous as you claim and if all medical doctors felt the same then why aren't vaccines mandatory? Many pediatricians don't even require all of their patients to receive vaccines so for all you know when you're in the waiting room with your baby the woman next to you could be holding her unvaccinated child. When I interviewed my pediatrician she told me right from the start that she doesn't require all of her patients to receive vaccines if the parent doesn't want them.

Oh and last time I checked fever, chills and vomiting during flu season usually means they have the flu. You don't need to have a medical degree to know when someone has the flu and I'm sure day care staff that deals with children day in and day out all year know what the flu looks like.  

nallen14

In case you missed the next sentence, it's a full research study. That link just brings you to a database that allows you to pull up or download the full PDF of the study with complete abstract, methodology, and conclusion. Or have you never heard of a database?

nallen14

I wasn't referring to the CDC information about vaccines, I'm referring to the statistics that are mysteriously out there somewhere that she claim show an "epidemic" of McCarthy mothers running around the USA with their assassin children killing babies by not vaccinating. I'd refer you to a specific source but oh wait she never even provided one.

nallen14

oh and that same research study is available on NUMEROUS websources for download not just that one website on autism. Here's another article that even references the CDC's statistics and how they are connected to autism and vaccination. 

https://healthimpactnews.com/2012/vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-children-and-autism-why-no-studies/

nallen14

and here's a blog post of a member of Congress submitting a bill demanding the CDC look further into the connection between vaccinations and autism, as well as the questionable relationship between the CDC and vaccination corporations. While this is a blog so I can't vouch for how valid it is, the Bill is a government document and enough to raise my eyebrow. 

https://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/congressman-introduces-bill-requiring-study-of-autism-rate-in-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated/#.Uv2dKvldXiw

nallen14

In case you couldn't tell already I'm a published research author in Webster's Human Rights Research Journal, as well as extremely pregnant, uncomfortable, and unable to sleep. I can do this all night. Come at me ladies. 

WashingtonQueen

nallen14 said:

In case you couldn't tell already I'm a published research author in Webster's Human Rights Research Journal, as well as extremely pregnant, uncomfortable, and unable to sleep. I can do this all night. Come at me ladies. 

@Joy2611 can top your ass. You are spreading false information.

Tkhixen

nallen14 said:

In case you couldn't tell already I'm a published research author in Webster's Human Rights Research Journal, as well as extremely pregnant, uncomfortable, and unable to sleep. I can do this all night. Come at me ladies. 

Really?  You are getting a little defensive for someone who is planning on giving your child the "horrible vaccines that cause autism!" 

For the OP, if your friend chooses not to vaccinate, that is her choice.  And it is YOUR choice to tell her that you don't feel comfortable having her kids around yours!  I personally would not let my newborn around them...especially with a measles outbreak happening right now in San Fran!  That's my choice that I would make because it's my child!  

Tkhixen

nallen14 said:

In case you couldn't tell already I'm a published research author in Webster's Human Rights Research Journal, as well as extremely pregnant, uncomfortable, and unable to sleep. I can do this all night. Come at me ladies. 

Really?  You are getting a little defensive for someone who is planning on giving your child the "horrible vaccines that cause autism!" And Jenny McCarthy's kid doesn't even have autism anymore...he was cured or something! or NEVER EVEN HAD IT BECAUSE VACCINES DON"T GIVE KIDS AUTISM!!!

For the OP, if your friend chooses not to vaccinate, that is her choice.  And it is YOUR choice to tell her that you don't feel comfortable having her kids around yours!  I personally would not let my newborn around them...especially with a measles outbreak happening right now in San Fran!  That's my choice that I would make because it's my child!  

crankita

nallen14 said:

In case you couldn't tell already I'm a published research author in Webster's Human Rights Research Journal, as well as extremely pregnant, uncomfortable, and unable to sleep. I can do this all night. Come at me ladies. 

nallen14

*rolls eyes* Obviously any research showing negative effects of vaccinating is also going to support NOT vaccinating. Just like any research showing the positive effects of vaccinating IS going to support vaccinating. I'm sorry I don't have a 20 page airtight research paper to present, like I said before I plan on vaccinating so most of my research I've conducted and read has been in SUPPORT of vaccines. My main point (which I see most of you are missing because you lack critical reading comprehension skills) is TOLERANCE. I'm getting defensive because as a human rights activist I don't believe anyone has the right to tell another person that they're a horrible person because they choose how to raise their child in a way they see fit. Every person is born with a right to freedom and that freedom includes the right to make your own choices. Or do you ladies believe that once the government outlaws birth control they should start working on other ways to control the female population too?

nallen14

At this point I'm just getting joy from getting a rise out of a group of strangers especially since I honestly don't feel strongly one way or another about the subject.

troll²

trōl/

verb

gerund or present participle: trolling

1. 2.

   informal

   submit a deliberately provocative posting to an online message board with the aim of inciting an angry response.

Gigi8212

RedheadBaker said:

Oh and last time I checked fever, chills and vomiting during flu season usually means they have the flu. You don't need to have a medical degree to know when someone has the flu and I'm sure day care staff that deals with children day in and day out all year know what the flu looks like.  

How did I miss this the first time around?

Chills and vomiting mean you have gastroenteritis. NOT influenza.

------quote fail
Exactly what is was going to point out. Stomach"flu" does not equal influenza.

outnumbered

nallen14 said:

. One of my good friends just had her baby boy vaccinated TWICE for the flu (once early this year and again recently since it's flu season) yet her daycare called today while we were at work to tell her that he still got the flu anyways and had to be picked up to protect the other children. I

I want to clear up your misconceptions.  She did not inoculate her baby twice.  When a child under two receives the influenza vaccine for the first time it is a series of two shots.

Influenza is a respiratory virus.  It does not typically cause vomiting.  The post nasal drip and coughing could cause vomiting, but the virus does not infect the GI tract. Vomiting is caused by enteric viruses.  Here is a great review of the influenza disease and vaccine.  https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/downloads/ccivi_report.pdf  This is my favorite quote from it “The greatest obstacle to discovering the shape of 

the earth, the continents, and the oceans was not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge.”

–Daniel Boorstin

Oh, I am published in the Journal of Biological Chemistry and a few other scientific journals so I understand a little bit about science.  If I have any human rights questions you will be first on my list.  

Mizoo

nallen14 said:

At this point I'm just getting joy from getting a rise out of a group of strangers especially since I honestly don't feel strongly one way or another about the subject.

troll²

trōl/

verb

gerund or present participle: trolling

1. 2.

   informal

   submit a deliberately provocative posting to an online message board with the aim of inciting an angry response.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't trolling against the TOS? 

If you get that much "joy" out of making yourself look like a dumbass you should probably invest some time in finding a hobby.  No one in this discussion was angry or giving you a "rise" anyway.  You're the only one whose posts are coming across as being emotionally charged.

I feel like not vaccinating your child is metaphorically equivalent to driving your vehicle without insurance.  It's irresponsible as hell, and someone else could ultimately end up paying the price for your "personal" decision.  Except with a car accident in this scenario, the other person just ends up paying monetarily to fix damages you've caused - with a serious (deadly) illness, they could pay with their life or their child's life.

Sorry, I can't be tolerant of someone so reckless.  There are people out there with compromised immune systems who can't get vaccinated - are their lives just not worth protecting?

Edited because words are hard before coffee.

rainydayluck

I'm not going to bother quoting, but Nallen14 my god (and by my god, I mean someone else's god since I don't believe in god), you lose any possible shred of credibility when you start posting non-peer reviewed, fear mongering garbage. You obviously didn't get your money's worth out of your research and designs classes in grad school if you think that crap is legitimate research.

To echo what's already been said, your friend's kid cannot be diagnosed with flu from daycare unless they have the lab equipment to run the test there and not any and all illness symptoms in flu season automatically point to flu.

KLP1982

Actually vomiting and diarrhea can be seen with influenza virus. although it's certainly not as common. 

• Fever* or feeling feverish/chills
• Cough
• Sore throat
• Runny or stuffy nose
• Muscle or body aches
• Headaches
• Fatigue (tiredness)
• Some people may have vomiting and diarrhea, though this is more common in children than adults.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/symptoms.htm

PrimRoseMama

I would not.

KLP1982

RedheadBaker said:

KLP1982 said:

Actually vomiting and diarrhea can be seen with influenza virus. although it's certainly not as common. 

• Fever* or feeling feverish/chills
• Cough
• Sore throat
• Runny or stuffy nose
• Muscle or body aches
• Headaches
• Fatigue (tiredness)
• Some people may have vomiting and diarrhea, though this is more common in children than adults.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/disease/symptoms.htm

Someone already mentioned this above -- the nasal drip can cause vomiting. However, the OP did not mention that her child was showing signs of a respiratory illness, which is what the *real* flu actually is, not a stomach virus. 

That's a possibility, but that still wouldn't explain the diarrhea. Possibly due instead to cytokine release or coinfection? I think the point though is that you can see vomiting and diarrhea with influenza virus. There seems to be a lot of false information on this site that if you have V+D it's NOT influenza, which isn't true. 

KLP1982

smeame14 said:

If it is just V&D, and fever more than likely it is just a stomach bug. The true influenza, which I had, and would never wish it upon anyone, is high fever with chills (mine was near 104 even with Tylenol/Motrin comb) chills, sore throat, intense muscle/joint aches, you feel weak (for me when I had it, my husband had to help me to the bathroom, because I was so weak), and can not stay awake for long periods of time. I had to call the doctor and they told me if any issues with breathing increased that I had to go to the ER immediately. It lasted seven days. Two of those days I thought I was going to die. No VorD. If you get the flu shot, it may not protect you from all strands, but can reduce the symptoms. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/flu/basics/symptoms/con-20035101

Yuck! I'm glad you recovered ok! My husband is down and out with the stomach flu right now. It's mainly diarrhea  and a fever and he doesn't feel too terrible but I'm still trying to steer clear of him. 

spacepotatoes

nallen14 said:

*rolls eyes* Obviously any research showing negative effects of vaccinating is also going to support NOT vaccinating. Just like any research showing the positive effects of vaccinating IS going to support vaccinating. I'm sorry I don't have a 20 page airtight research paper to present, like I said before I plan on vaccinating so most of my research I've conducted and read has been in SUPPORT of vaccines. My main point (which I see most of you are missing because you lack critical reading comprehension skills) is TOLERANCE. I'm getting defensive because as a human rights activist I don't believe anyone has the right to tell another person that they're a horrible person because they choose how to raise their child in a way they see fit. Every person is born with a right to freedom and that freedom includes the right to make your own choices. Or do you ladies believe that once the government outlaws birth control they should start working on other ways to control the female population too?

When someone chooses not to vaccinate their kids because they believe the anti-vax bullshit and in turn, puts my own kids at risk? Nope, sorry. I do not have tolerance for that, nor should I. People do not exist inside their own individual bubbles.

To equate vaccinating with government control of the female population and birth control policies is completely ridiculous and has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

csmily51

No. Not until she's has all her shots, even then I'd be cautious.

Mattingly23

https://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/climate_desk/2014/02/internet_troll_personality_study_machiavellianism_narcissism_psychopathy.html