Help please — The Bump
LGBT Parenting

Help please

Ok so we are about 4 weeks away from finding out what the baby is but I might cheat and go to one of those 3d/4d ultrasound places next week. Anywho my partner and I both feel the baby is a boy and if so we are posed with the time old question of whether to circumcise him or not? I use to be all for it until stupid me decided to research it and watched a you tube video which FYI I do not recommend doing if you plan to have this done to your son.So after watching the you tube video i'm really against it now but my partner still wants it done.She refuses to watch the video.I know people have done it for years and the baby wont remember but I looked on the internet and really couldnt find one good reason to do it except for cosmetic reasons. My question is how did ya'll decide whether to do it or not and was anyone else in my situation where one wanted it and the other didnt? Am I being a big chicken about it and should i just let it be done?

Re: Help please

  • I don't have an answer to this but I was just thinking about posting the same question.  We are having a boy and I am somewhat conflicted on the issue.  Our nephew was not circumcised at birth, ended up getting some kind of infection and had to be circumcised around age 4-5.  Because of this, my wife is absolutely pro-circumcision.

    I'd love to hear from moms of boys or future moms of boys...and if you have any recommendations for good resources for research, please point me in that direction!
    Married my wife 8/2007 ~ TTC #1 since 7/2011
    9 IUIs = 9 BFNs
    IVF October 2012: 22 eggs retrieved, 17 fertilized, 5 frozen
    ET #1: 1 blast = BFP; Blighted ovum discovered at 7w5d; D&E
    FET #1: 1 blast = BFP; Missed m/c discovered at 9w5d; D&E
    Karyotyping: normal ~ RPL Testing: normal ~ Hysteroscopy: normal
    FET #2: 1 blast transferred 10/25; BFP 10/31!
    EDD 7/13/14 ~ Induced at 37w4d due to pre-eclampsia ~ Born on 6/28/14
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  • This is one of the biggest decisions you face when you have a boy!  It was for us.  Like you, I did not see a reason to get it done and would not have circumcised our son had my wife not insisted on it. In the end, because it was important to my wife, we did circumcise him.  I felt like because I was calling so many shots and making so many decisions about everything that I needed to allow my wife's voice and preference to be respected.  I felt like it was an area that I could give up my preference because, 1) he won't' remember any pain and 2) I don't know any circumcised men who are unhappy with being circumcised.  So, in the end I didn't feel like I was "hurting" him.

    I'm certainly not advocating either way because this is truly a really personal decision to make.  Just wanted to share my experience since I was in the same boat as you not too long ago.  

    Also, I wouldn't even have lots of discussion about it until you know if it's a boy.  You might not need to worry about this at all!
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  • ATXmommas said:
    Like you, I did not see a reason to get it done and would not have circumcised our son had my wife not insisted on it. In the end, because it was important to my wife, we did circumcise him.  I felt like because I was calling so many shots and making so many decisions about everything that I needed to allow my wife's voice and preference to be respected.  I felt like it was an area that I could give up my preference because, 1) he won't' remember any pain and 2) I don't know any circumcised men who are unhappy with being circumcised.  So, in the end I didn't feel like I was "hurting" him.

    This is kind of how I'm leaning too...she feels so strongly that it should be done, and although I lean away from it myself I'm not 100% committed either way.  She deferred to me on a lot of TTC/pregnancy stuff because it was my body, but this is her child as much as he is mine.  I know I can be kind of controlling and I don't want her to ever feel like she's not getting 50% of a say in how he is raised.

    @ATXMommas, I'm glad you weighed in on this...I respect the decisions you've made with Ash and I am glad to see someone else going in a similar direction with this.
    Married my wife 8/2007 ~ TTC #1 since 7/2011
    9 IUIs = 9 BFNs
    IVF October 2012: 22 eggs retrieved, 17 fertilized, 5 frozen
    ET #1: 1 blast = BFP; Blighted ovum discovered at 7w5d; D&E
    FET #1: 1 blast = BFP; Missed m/c discovered at 9w5d; D&E
    Karyotyping: normal ~ RPL Testing: normal ~ Hysteroscopy: normal
    FET #2: 1 blast transferred 10/25; BFP 10/31!
    EDD 7/13/14 ~ Induced at 37w4d due to pre-eclampsia ~ Born on 6/28/14
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    ATXmommas
  • Thanks guy I know we shouldnt worry about it the baby might be a girl but hopefully one day we will have a son and will have to face this question.I also asked my boss who has a almost 3 yr old and  when she was pregnant she told me that she probably wasnt going to get it done because her husband wasnt. Today I asked her if she ever had it done and she said yes so I asked why and she said she didnt know lol. When the doc came in and asked her she let her husband decide and he said yes do it.We believe he was teased at some point about it and didnt want his son having to deal with that however she did say from her point of view it is just cosmetic and she actually enjoys her sex life with her husband more than with a man that has been so IDK lol me personally all I think about is the poor baby in the video who was in pain and dont know if i could put him through that but at the same time i'm like most of you and dont want Heather to feel like we have equal say in our children.I dont want it done now I would rather wait til he is older and can make that decision himself and Heather says no it will hurt more so i really dont know what we will do if we have a boy hhhhhmmmmm 
  • We are planning not to circumcise if we have a child with a penis.
    We think the child can make the decision to be circumscribed later in life if they feel like they'd like to be and then that way we won't have made the irreversible decision for them.
    I understand why following cultural and social tradition some would choose circumcision. For us, though, it's not the choice we plan to make.
    ****loss discussed*****

    We're queer. I'm 33, have severe stage 4 endo, and had both fallopian tubes removed. My love ("Manada" on the boards, 32) was diagnosed with diminished ovarian reserve. We did Partner IVF (my eggs, her uterus). We lost our twins Tavin and Casey at 21 weeks gestation.

    Our IUIs
    with @Manada: IUI# 1-7 (December 2012- September 2013) all BFN. Tried natural, femara, clomid, puregon/follistim, clomid and menopur combo, both the ovidrel and HCG triggers.

    Our IVFs:
    IVF #1 my eggs November/December 2013: Cancelled IVF due to poor response

    IVF #2 my eggs/Manada's uterus January/February 2014
    BCPs and lupron overlap Stimmed: 1/22-2/2: Bravelle and Menopur (dosage ranged from B300 and M150 to B375 and M150 to B300 and M225)
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    BFP eve of 6dp3dt; Beta 1 (11dp3dt): 110; Beta 2 (13dp3dt): 175; Beta 3 (15dp3dt): 348; Beta 4 (19dp3dt): 2222; Beta 5 (21dp3dt): 4255
    1st ultrasound (3/6  6w 1d): TWINS!!!! Twin A measuring 6w1d with a heartbeat of 118bpm. Twin B measuring 6w0d with a heartbeat of 113bpm. 

    ***July 18, 2014 we lost our beautiful babies at 21 weeks gestation. They were born too early. Tavin Sara T. and Casey Elizabeth T. are beautiful and precious and we will love them and miss them forever.***

    FET #1 December 2014
    Intralipid infusion on Dec 10. Transfer of 1 day 3 nine-cell embryo into my uterus on Dec. 19. (acupuncture immediately before and after)
    BFP on Dec. 27; Beta 1 Jan 2 (14dp3dt): 665, Beta 2 Jan 4 (16dp3dt): 1859, Beta 3 Jan 6 (18dp3dt): 4449, Beta 4 Jan 10 (22dp3dt): 12,251.



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    [Deleted User]Manada2MamazInSeattleJazibel
  • I find it really disheartening that anyone would suggest that I have somehow made a decision that traumatized my son.  Like I said, this is a deeply personal decision and the OP was asking how we made a decision.  I would NEVER make a decision that I felt was harmful to my child.  @herbabymama - I love ya (still do), but I feel like your response was a bit judgmental and insensitive to those people who have chosen differently than you.
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  • @ATXmommas - I think @herbabymama was referring more to the fleeting trauma of a moment than a long-term traumatic damage. I mean, vaccinations cause pain and some trauma in a moment, but ultimately many people decide it's worth it for their families in terms of a balance of social and physical reasons. That balances out differently for every family.

    For me - the balance falls much more in line with @herbabymama's thoughts, and my own experiences. I don't have a cultural or religious reason to consider it. My little brother wasn't circ'd and in my previous life (ie. pre being out as queer) I had sex with a handful of men who were, and weren't, and those who weren't were generally pretty happy with the benefits of foreskin. I even met one dude who was actively trying to "stretch" what was left of his circumsized foreskin back to cover his glands.

    I also have lots of experience in body-modification culture and feel pretty strongly that modifying one's body should be a personal choice.

    That said. Do I think those who circ are bad parents? Nope. We do the best with what info we have, and what is important to us....
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    queer couple - 32 (me) & 33 (my love) years old - donor sperm,

    Our IF/TTC journey since Nov 2012.

    Me: dx of DOR in Nov. 2012. Low AMH, AFC - 6, Normal FSH, SS-A (RO) Antibodies (Autoimmune issues), tubes clear, Sono (November 2013) NORMAL! <p>

    7 IUI's - December 2012-September 2013.  Medicated, Injected, Triggered.... all BFN.

    My Love:  (the amazing @Healz413)
    Normal AMH & FSH, AFC ~27, blocked tube dx'd via HSG in 2012.   Hydrosalpinx & ovarian cyst dx'd in May 2013.
    dx of Stage IV Endo & bilateral salpinectomy in June 2013.  

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    Partner IVF#1a- December 2013 - H's eggs, my Ute - CANCELLED due to low response
    Partner IVF #1b - February 2014 - H's eggs, my Ute - ER February 4 (10 retrieved, 3 fertilized), Transfer Feb 7 of one Grade 1 and one Grade 2 day 3 embryos.  1 - Day 3, Grade 1 frosty saved.   BFP - 6dp3dt via FRER, Beta #1 - 110, Beta #2 175, Beta #3 - 348, Beta #4 - 2222!, Beta #5 - 4255.  Ultrasound (6w1d) - 2 heartbearts!  

    We lost our beautiful Twin baby girls on June 18, 2014.  Tavin Sara and Casey Elizabeth were born at 21 weeks gestation and were absolutely beautiful, precious, amazing babies.  We miss our daughters every day and love them with all our hearts.

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    ATXmommas[Deleted User]2MamazInSeattle
  • If we have a boy, we are going to circumsize. I realize that the chance of infection, etc is not extremely high, but I would prefer to go ahead and not take the chance. I understand it is a deeply emotional subject for many, as is vaccinating, and consider everyone else's opinions just that. Something to take into consideration, along with your opinion thoughts/opinions, and make the decision you feel is best for YOUR child.

    As with many things in life, parents have to make decisions that they will be unaware of any effects/affects it could have in the future. That's the scariest part of being a parent


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    ATXmommas[Deleted User]
  • @herbabymama - thank you for your response. It is a difficult decision to make and I think all viewpoints are valid. We certainly didn't make the decision lightly.
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    Manada[Deleted User]GoaliesWife123
  • FWIW, the American Academy of Pediatrics' position is that "the health benefits of newborn male circumcision outweigh the risks, but the benefits are not great enough to recommend universal newborn circumcision...the final decision should still be left to parents to make in the context of their religious, ethical and cultural beliefs."
    https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages/Newborn-Male-Circumcision.aspx
    fter a comprehensive review of the scientific evidence, the American Academy of Pediatrics found the health benefits of newborn male circumcision outweigh the risks, but the benefits are not great enough to recommend universal newborn circumcision. The AAP policy statement published Monday, August 27, says the final decision should still be left to parents to make in the context of their religious, ethical and cultural beliefs. - See more at: https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages/Newborn-Male-Circumcision.aspx#sthash.y1qcUF6k.dpuf
    fter a comprehensive review of the scientific evidence, the American Academy of Pediatrics found the health benefits of newborn male circumcision outweigh the risks, but the benefits are not great enough to recommend universal newborn circumcision. The AAP policy statement published Monday, August 27, says the final decision should still be left to parents to make in the context of their religious, ethical and cultural beliefs. - See more at: https://www.aap.org/en-us/about-the-aap/aap-press-room/pages/Newborn-Male-Circumcision.aspx#sthash.y1qcUF6k.dpuf
    Married my wife 8/2007 ~ TTC #1 since 7/2011
    9 IUIs = 9 BFNs
    IVF October 2012: 22 eggs retrieved, 17 fertilized, 5 frozen
    ET #1: 1 blast = BFP; Blighted ovum discovered at 7w5d; D&E
    FET #1: 1 blast = BFP; Missed m/c discovered at 9w5d; D&E
    Karyotyping: normal ~ RPL Testing: normal ~ Hysteroscopy: normal
    FET #2: 1 blast transferred 10/25; BFP 10/31!
    EDD 7/13/14 ~ Induced at 37w4d due to pre-eclampsia ~ Born on 6/28/14
    *Everyone welcome*

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    [Deleted User]2MamazInSeattle
  • We will not circumcise. We are both 100% on that. I would also never pierce a little girls ears. It's a permanent change to someone else 's body that they didn't get a choice in. So that's my justice issues at play :). Second to that, I think my baby will come out with a body made with everything he needs (foreskin serves a purpose) and I wouldn't want to change that.

    I too have adult friends who had a ton of anger toward their parents for doing it to them, which I'd when I learned more about it (this was years ago!) and decided it wouldn't be a good decision for me. One in particular felt his sex life was significantly compromised.

    I read an interesting story about pain recollection on infants recently (I'll try to dig it up). It said circumcised boys react to future pain as an infant 4x greater than a non circumcised baby; their point was that he has experienced a far greater level of pain that the uncircumcised boy and that experience stays with him. They did something similar with vaginal birth babies vs. C-section babies - so after shots (pain), it was something like the circumcised boy cried 20 min or more, vaginal birth baby 10 minutes, and c-section (least pain experienced in life so far) only 5 or less. Something in that spoke to me too.

    I have known of one (well, with @ball.and.chains nephew) two little boys in my 42 years who required circumcision at age 5 or so. I read an analogy that its like routinely removing every babies appendix just in case... Please don't take that as judgey, but the point was the odds of complications requiring future surgery is about the same statistically.

    In Seattle less than half of boys are circumcised, so no worries about comparison issues for us. We plan to teach him to clean himself well, and trust the odds are extremely low that he'd require a future circumcision.

    One last thing - its true that many advanced, civilized countries don't do this. I read an article thus week that its currently up for being made illegal in Sweden.

    It's great you're doing your homework! Good luck with your decision. I will add this: My friend who was so angry at his parents told me that, had they had a good reason, thought about it and made an infirmed decision, he may not have been felt so wronged. Their answer was "everyone else did" which he felt was lame and not thoughtful of him in the equation.
    Lil'mamaz was born on Aug 21, 2014! She's PERFECT!

    It's been a long road to here...
    Me (43) and J (45) - same sex couple. And we don't feel 40+!
    June'12 - First RE Visit
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    Dec. '12 - Fresh transfer, BFP! EDD 8/29/13
    Mar. '13 - Missed m/c at 16w1d, baby boy stopped growing at 15w4d
    Loss due to umbilical cord clot...baby was perfect. :(
    Jul '13 - FET#1 - c/p
    Sept. '13 - FET#2 - BFN
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    Dec' 26, 2013 - hb!!
    EDD 8/20/14 with a baby girl!
    Little S was born on 8/21/14 - 8lb, 14 oz and 20 inches long.
    We live in Seattle and used SRM for our donor egg IVF cycle


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    [Deleted User]Jazibel
  • OK I'm going to weigh in - but with the disclaimer that our decision and opinions were solely those of our family, and are not the "right" thing to do.  To further clarify, we are very natural minded people who practice low medical intervention when possible and pursue alternative medical (naturopathic, acupuncture, homeopathic) solutions, etc, etc, etc. 

    EV and I are very opposed to circumcision, I also see it as a form of male genital mutilation, and an unnecessary cosmetic fix. When we were investigating our decision on whether or not to cir. our son we came across many differing views. However when we delved further we decided one tradition stemmed primarily from Judea-Christian heritage which had become a cultural norm. I felt that the "medical" perspective that a cir'd penis was cleaner and less prone to infection was not well founded if proper hygiene was provided. There were also various myths we had to "uncover" such as a penis with foreskin had to be manipulated (pulled back) and cleaned regularly by parents. This is actually the opposite of true. In our minds the human body evolved in a certain way. Males have a foreskin.  We decided not to alter our sons body in anyway that was not crucial to his health. And we placed circumcision in the category as "non-crucial".  Again this is a decision that fit in with our perspective and preference.

    I also couldn't do it for the following reasons: the pain caused to a newborn. True he might not remember it. But I also worked so hard to provide what I believed to be a good birth experience for him in the form of a home water-birth. I wanted his first moments, hours, days on this planet to be as near perfect as I could make them. Circumcision and the pain associated with it didn't fit into that picture, as we had wanted to create it.
    I also interviewed a ton of parents in our area both heterosexual and LGBT and the vast majority had not cir'd or were not planning on having the procedure done. The statistics we encountered varied. Some say over 50% of boys are now not cir'd, other stats show up to 75% (dependent on area).  We're in Northern California and the majority of boys here are not circ'd. That said we felt that we were also not choosing an option that would cause our son grief in school, sports or with future partners.  We had researched that the majority of the nerve endings for a male are in the foreskin, and that the foreskin itself serves a purpose to support pleasure. 
    Finally we decided that if he wanted it done at some point we would support him, but that decision would be his, when he was mature enough to make a decision that would impact his entire life.

    Again, I know my beliefs may sound radical, and they may seem insensitive to those who chose a different route. However I truly believe that these types of decisions must be made by the parents. I'm sharing our perspective but do not want to come across as judging anyone who did/does not share this same perspective. 

    One last note, our son is wonderfully sound and healthy and we're expecting another boy in April, who we will also not circumcise. In the 18 months I've been a parent I have not had any difficulty related to the decision we made.



    2MamazInSeattle[Deleted User]Manada
  • We also did not circumcise. It's a difficult decision since neither of us have a penis so it was hard to know the right thing to do. This is definetly a hot button issue and be wary of internet research because the is a TON of misinformation out there. Talk with your OB and pediatrician to get actual medical research on the issue.

    Here is the short version of why we didn't circumcise.
    1. We are not Jewish, so we didn't have a religious reason for it.
    2. There is no medical reason to do it (unless you plan on moving to or live in Africa where there may be a decreased risk of STD transmission but this has not been found in any other locations where it has been studied).
    3. We didn't have a strong social or cultural reason to do it.

    So we figured if we couldn't come up with a really good reason to put him through a medical procedure, we wouldn't. Again this is a sensitive issue and you need to decide what is right for you.
    Same sex couple, Married 8/6/11
    Baby Oliver born 11/27/13

    TTC stats with donor sperm...
    IUI #1 with trigger, 1/4/13 - BFN
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    LifebyLauren

  • Hugs! I guess it's my turn to pitch in since I have an almost 4 year old boy. My son loves to play with his private parts and he's not cir. Our state does not cover the procedure. They said it has to be done by a different doctor. That made me shiver and I refused it. Beside, my little one is comfortable with himself so I'm not worried. It's important to stress healthy well-being in each kid.
    It is a personal choice.
    To clarify, my brother got cir when he was 13. It was a painful experience for him, so he had his son cir. when he was a newborn. Each to their own preference.

  • This question comes up here every now and then, here's a link to the thread from last year, I found it really helpful when we were making our choice:

    https://forums.thebump.com/discussion/comment/70434196#Comment_70434196

    In particular, what resonated with me, with the first comment. 

    We chose to not circumcise.  It was not a popular decision in my family, but we've moved on.  For us, we continued the theme of trying to NOT make very personal decisions for our son.  We chose an ID-options donor so that he could make the decision to seek contact if he so chose.  We chose to not circumcise so that he could make that decision later in life if he so chose.  After reading the research, I was not comfortable that any potential health benefits outweighed the risks be they medical, physical, or emotional.  But that kind of analysis must be done by each family, and we will all arrive at different decisions.

     

    Married to my amazing wife 6/12/10 
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    Unmedicated IUI #2 - 7/25/11 - BFN
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  • Thank you everyone for your advice.We cheated and went to a 3d/4d US and they told us it was a girl so i guess we dont have to make this decision with this baby.However I did not see the girly parts they saw so we are still waiting for official doctors ultrasound March 5th to confirm it is indeed a girl :)
    [Deleted User]HollynLeana
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