Speaking of pets and babies...

RondackHiker

I just shared these videos on third tri. A post there reminded me that most people are clueless around dogs and can't read body language. Since we're all popping out kids, please watch these even if you don't have a dog. Learn when things are NOT fine. And yes, I quoted myself.

RondackHiker said:

Here are a few videos about dogs and babies. The first is an example of it handled well:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mWI0GXToxyM&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DmWI0GXToxyM

And this is a bad example:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10202516121813240

Winnieella

Thank you for sharing.

cbear47

That second video scared the crap outta me! Thanks for posting!!! (And for being there when I've had questions!!!)

Scottnsaranhenri

This is awesome. I couldn't bring myself to finish the 2nd one, even though I know it says nothing bad happens. It was really upsetting to me.

The first video was exceptionally informative for the signs to watch for and I like that the owner said the dog was always supervised. Always. So important.

Thanks

RondackHiker

innanni said:

Both were so scary in their own way.  What are some cues that a dog is comfortable and happy btw?  I feel like I know my dog fairly well, but some of the things on here I wouldn't have known as signs of stress.

I'll find some good videos tomorrow. I'm going to bed soon. I think videos are easier to learn from.

magentawarped

BTW, I was about to page you on that thread right around when you started commenting. I'm amazed that that woman can't see that you're giving her great advice while she chooses to try to wait out a potentially very dangerous situation. I hope that something gets through to her before she has to drag her kid to the ER or put the dog down.

RondackHiker

Here are whale eyes!

RondackHiker

ChiaWombat said:

I showed DH the second video 20 minutes ago. He is still livid. Who are these people?

That video was more extreme than most, but so many people post "cute" videos and photos of their dog and child that are actually TERRIFYING.

cauliflowereyes

So whale eyes are when a dog kind of gives you shifty eyes from the side, kind of thing? It kind of looks like they're cringing back a bit while they do it..
I never had a dog growing up and have very little experience with them.. most dogs medium sized and bigger give me some apprehension until I'm really familiar with them. Kids and random dogs at the park always make me a little nervous.. I couldn't get those videos to work yet, but I'm sure I'll be pretty protective of LO around dogs I don't know, that's for sure.

cauliflowereyes

On a side note, I've had so many cats since I was a toddler that I'm definitely fluent in conversational "Cat" if anyone needs translation, lol

cauliflowereyes

On a side note, I've had so many cats since I was a toddler that I'm definitely fluent in conversational "Cat" if anyone needs translation, lol

1ofme4ofthem

Thank you for sharing. That second video was upsetting. Good thing that dog had patients, hopefully he doesn't have to use them often

MamaHollywood27

Omg! I teared up at the second video! (Damn hormones that poor dog! And what a bunch of moronic parents!

gobbo1985

OMG I actually couldn't get through the second video! My nieces use to do that to my parent lab and no one would say anything but me! Drove me nuts. Just because you think you have the nicest dog in the world doesn't mean it's still isn't an animal! My nieces try to do stupid things with my dogs and trust me that doesn't fly with me and they are told and so are their parents. Kids need to be tought from a young age how to treat and respect animals. I have 2 dogs and 2 cats who are great around kids but that doesn't mean they are capable of doing something. And we will teach our child the proper way to pet a dog or cat and how to treat them.

RondackHiker

Insomnia... I just found this link on another forum.

https://www.robinkbennett.com/2013/08/19/why-supervising-dogs-and-kids-doesnt-work/

dunvilles

@RondackHiker

What is your opinion on this scenario...

My mom has a black lab. He is about 9 years old, has diabetes, and isn't a very "social" dog. He prefers adults and becomes very irritable/nervous around kids.

Last year, my DS was running around my mom's house and he accidentally ran into the dog. The dog, lunged at him and tried to bite him (understandable since my son ran into him) THANKFULLY, DS was NOT hurt.

I told my mom that she needs to give her dog a space to get away from DS when he is over. I told her that it isn't fair to her dog or my son to put either of them in this situation. We KNOW that her dog will bite at DS if he steps on his tail, gets too close, etc. My mom feels bad for her dog if she has to block him to a certain part of the house.

What is your take on this?

MamaHollywood27

I had a question to if you have time, I have asked my vet who we love but I will admit she is a bit off kilter and kinda out there, but sweet and takes good care of the dog when she has checkups..... Anyways my dog is a chihuahua mix, she is about 1.5, she will come up to me when I'm sitting and put her nose under my hand so I will pet her, then proceeds to lay on her side and then back and ill pet her and she will nibble and I literally mean just gum ( super gently) at my hand and kinda get excited and grab my hand with her paws, so ill stop then, thinking she doesn't like it and she whines, puts her nuzzle under my hand and starts over again... Is she just initiating play? I brought it up to my vet, she said that since we have had her since she was6-8 weeks old(we rescued her) that she is mimicking my boys,( for attention or just play)who constantly wrestle and def get my attention when I'm pulling them apart she does stop when I say enough so is my vet full of shit or do dogs really learn stuff like that? I just don't understand why she comes up for me to pet but then nibbles and gets all excited? And I do understand she is still really a pup so lotsa play is normal


Edited to make sense no sleep is rough.

RondackHiker

@innanni

Here are two decent videos I found that show a good variety of doggy expressions. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00_9JPltXHI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bstvG_SUzMo

RondackHiker

dunvilles said:

@RondackHiker

What is your opinion on this scenario...

My mom has a black lab. He is about 9 years old, has diabetes, and isn't a very "social" dog. He prefers adults and becomes very irritable/nervous around kids.

Last year, my DS was running around my mom's house and he accidentally ran into the dog. The dog, lunged at him and tried to bite him (understandable since my son ran into him) THANKFULLY, DS was NOT hurt.

I told my mom that she needs to give her dog a space to get away from DS when he is over. I told her that it isn't fair to her dog or my son to put either of them in this situation. We KNOW that her dog will bite at DS if he steps on his tail, gets too close, etc. My mom feels bad for her dog if she has to block him to a certain part of the house.

What is your take on this?

@dunvilles

I'm so glad your son and your mom's dog both came out of that incident without being hurt.

I have a few thoughts about this situation.

First, your son is four. While accidents do happen, your son is old enough to keep away from the dog and give the dog his space. Does your son have decent impulse control? My dog is really patient with my son (though he does show that he needs a break at times), but we've taught him that his grandpa's dog and his grandma's dog both need more space and have different rules. Your son needs to not run around unless the dog is in a safe spot (in a corner where he can't be bumped or confined), and he needs to not approach/pet/go near the dog. He should give the dog a good ten foot radius. That will work well when your son is just hanging out and things are quieter. You and your mom need to be aware of him and the dog and help them avoid each other. Call the dog or your son, make sure they don't pass in the hall, give them a shot to give each other space. 

I'd also talk to your mom as well. Tell her that you know she feels bad confining the dog and that you're working with your son to give the dog more space, but that you want BOTH the dog and your son to feel safe and happy. This isn't just about your son being safe, but the dog being safe. If your son bumps him, it hurts! And it's not fair for the poor dog to be stressed. You two can work together to come up with a plan. When the dog is confined, make sure it's in a comfy spot with water and a treat or favorite toy and that he gets extra attention when DS is napping/away/in bed. Let him out for breaks, and you can read your son a book/feed him/have him watch TV/do some quieter activity during those time periods. You can also confine your son. All his toys/books/etc are in one room with a gate or door, and the dog gets the rest of the space.

You're right that this situation could lead to a bite, but it can be managed. At four, your son shouldn't have too many accidental encounters with the dog. Remind him not to run at Grandma's because of the dog and remind him to keep away. The dog can take a break when he shows signs of stress (like the first video above). Your son can burn energy outside or during those breaks.

Once new baby becomes mobile, a separate space and close monitoring will be very important... but with an old and ill dog, that may not be an issue too much longer.

RondackHiker

MamaHollywood27 said:

I had a question to if you have time, I have asked my vet who we love but I will admit she is a bit off kilter and kinda out there, but sweet and takes good care of the dog when she has checkups..... Anyways my dog is a chihuahua mix, she is about 1.5, she will come up to me when I'm sitting and put her nose under my hand so I will pet her, then proceeds to lay on her side and then back and ill pet her and she will nibble and I literally mean just gum ( super gently) at my hand and kinda get excited and grab my hand with her paws, so ill stop then, thinking she doesn't like it and she whines, puts her nuzzle under my hand and starts over again... Is she just initiating play? I brought it up to my vet, she said that since we have had her since she was6-8 weeks old(we rescued her) that she is mimicking my boys,( for attention or just play)who constantly wrestle and def get my attention when I'm pulling them apart she does stop when I say enough so is my vet full of shit or do dogs really learn stuff like that? I just don't understand why she comes up for me to pet but then nibbles and gets all excited? And I do understand she is still really a pup so lotsa play is normal Edited to make sense no sleep is rough.

@Mamahollywood27

I roll my eyes at your vet who thinks your dog is imitating your sons. I don't think she does it because she dislikes attention. I think she's likely playing/grooming/being social back at you. I don't think she means any harm, but I'm a big believer in dog teeth never ever touching people's skin. Ever. It's not okay or acceptable. There are a few reasons for that. One, the pressure can escalate if the dog gets overexcited or startled. Two, if you have her do that to the wrong person and they yank their hand away, they can have a mark and they can claim she bit.

When she does that, I'd say "no bite", pull your hand away, hand her a toy, and praise her and start petting. If she nibbles again, I'd said "no bite" and walk away. If you think she's likely to do it, then hand her a little chew toy as you start petting or fussing over her. You can tug at it a bit to give her the stimulation she wants, though I do not recommend actual tug-o-war. That's not a good or safe game.

What I think is likely is that she was separated from her litter too young and she never learned bite inhibition, which is learned from her litter mates between 5 and 9 weeks of age. 

dunvilles

@rondackhiker thank you for the advice. The first incident happened when my son was 3. He does have good impulse control and knows not to bother the dog. The dog tends to lay in doorways/ walk ways and does not move when an adult or child walks near him. He also wants to be right with my mom which has led to my son bringing grandma a toy, stepping back, and accidentally stepping on the dogs tail.

I feel like my mom puts her dog first always and just assumes nothing will happen. When my son was running, he was playing a game with my dad and we were all sitting within a few.feet of.yhe dog but we didnt.know he.was there bc he was right in the walkway around the corner.

We have two dogs ourselves that are wonderful around our son and vice versa. They have their own quiet space etc.

RondackHiker

dunvilles said:

@rondackhiker thank you for the advice. The first incident happened when my son was 3. He does have good impulse control and knows not to bother the dog. The dog tends to lay in doorways/ walk ways and does not move when an adult or child walks near him. He also wants to be right with my mom which has led to my son bringing grandma a toy, stepping back, and accidentally stepping on the dogs tail.

I feel like my mom puts her dog first always and just assumes nothing will happen. When my son was running, he was playing a game with my dad and we were all sitting within a few.feet of.yhe dog but we didnt.know he.was there bc he was right in the walkway around the corner.

We have two dogs ourselves that are wonderful around our son and vice versa. They have their own quiet space etc.

Your mom likely feels that good dogs don't bite. There's a link in the thread above about why "watching" doesn't work and another about good dogs biting in the third tri thread.

Her dog sounds like a typical lab. Constantly underfoot and laying in the worst possible spot. I've kicked my poor dog in the face a few times when I step out of a bathroom at night and he's sitting RIGHT THERE. Black dog in the shadows is bad.

Can you talk to your mom when you're both calm? Accept blame for your portion of it (even if you don't feel you're wrong, apologize for not watching DS closely enough). Just say that you want your son and the dog to both be safe and figure out a way to keep them apart. Point out that the dog is afraid and tries to hide with her, but that DS approaches to give her a toy, it's scary for the dog.

Can your parents just come to your house?

kt_arr

I really like in the first video when she praises the dog for walking away removing himself from the situation. Good stuff! I'll be sharing with DH too.

@MamaHollywood27 - My dog does something really similar. He doesn't "nibble" as much as just putting your hands/arms/wrists in his mouth when he plays. Our vet suggested he learned this as a puppy when he was around other dogs (we rescued him when he was one). Now that we've had him for a few years he does it less and less. Not sure if that helps- I'm also interested in what Rondack thinks.

MamaHollywood27

RondackHiker said:

MamaHollywood27 said:

I had a question to if you have time, I have asked my vet who we love but I will admit she is a bit off kilter and kinda out there, but sweet and takes good care of the dog when she has checkups..... Anyways my dog is a chihuahua mix, she is about 1.5, she will come up to me when I'm sitting and put her nose under my hand so I will pet her, then proceeds to lay on her side and then back and ill pet her and she will nibble and I literally mean just gum ( super gently) at my hand and kinda get excited and grab my hand with her paws, so ill stop then, thinking she doesn't like it and she whines, puts her nuzzle under my hand and starts over again... Is she just initiating play? I brought it up to my vet, she said that since we have had her since she was6-8 weeks old(we rescued her) that she is mimicking my boys,( for attention or just play)who constantly wrestle and def get my attention when I'm pulling them apart she does stop when I say enough so is my vet full of shit or do dogs really learn stuff like that? I just don't understand why she comes up for me to pet but then nibbles and gets all excited? And I do understand she is still really a pup so lotsa play is normal


Edited to make sense no sleep is rough.

@Mamahollywood27

I roll my eyes at your vet who thinks your dog is imitating your sons. I don't think she does it because she dislikes attention. I think she's likely playing/grooming/being social back at you. I don't think she means any harm, but I'm a big believer in dog teeth never ever touching people's skin. Ever. It's not okay or acceptable. There are a few reasons for that. One, the pressure can escalate if the dog gets overexcited or startled. Two, if you have her do that to the wrong person and they yank their hand away, they can have a mark and they can claim she bit.

When she does that, I'd say "no bite", pull your hand away, hand her a toy, and praise her and start petting. If she nibbles again, I'd said "no bite" and walk away. If you think she's likely to do it, then hand her a little chew toy as you start petting or fussing over her. You can tug at it a bit to give her the stimulation she wants, though I do not recommend actual tug-o-war. That's not a good or safe game.

What I think is likely is that she was separated from her litter too young and she never learned bite inhibition, which is learned from her litter mates between 5 and 9 weeks of age. 

.

Thank you for your response, yes when we got her ( we where told her mother stopped nursing the litter which was just 2 pups) we took her to the vet for age and check up and it was based off of teeth and size (I think) I do think she just likes the play/attention and if some of that is learned thru play w pups in the litter it makes sense she didn't learn it. She really is a sweet girl and I to thought my vet was just giving me a "easy explanation".

She is never left alone w the baby obviously but the other morning 3am diaper change/ feeding I was warming wipes in my hand and apparently taking to long and she left my side and went to "spoon" the upset baby, I thought it was so sweet she was trying to comfort the fussy baby, but now I'm a little worried watching these videos it's a dominance thing

RondackHiker

She likely spooned baby because baby was in a comfy spot and was warm.

Dominance theory is outdated and inaccurate.

MamaHollywood27

RondackHiker said:

She likely spooned baby because baby was in a comfy spot and was warm.

Dominance theory is outdated and inaccurate.

Ok well that's reassuring! Thanks for letting me pick your brain!

MamaHollywood27

kt_arr said:

I really like in the first video when she praises the dog for walking away removing himself from the situation. Good stuff! I'll be sharing with DH too.

@MamaHollywood27 - My dog does something really similar. He doesn't "nibble" as much as just putting your hands/arms/wrists in his mouth when he plays. Our vet suggested he learned this as a puppy when he was around other dogs (we rescued him when he was one). Now that we've had him for a few years he does it less and less. Not sure if that helps- I'm also interested in what Rondack thinks.

And it's funny cuz she does it a me my husband and oldest son but NEVER my DD or youngest DS? But I'm going to try the tips she suggested

1ofme4ofthem

I saw this and wanted to share but wasn't sure on which thread. Hope you guys dont mind it here

kt_arr

MamaHollywood27 said:

I really like in the first video when she praises the dog for walking away removing himself from the situation. Good stuff! I'll be sharing with DH too.

@MamaHollywood27 - My dog does something really similar. He doesn't "nibble" as much as just putting your hands/arms/wrists in his mouth when he plays. Our vet suggested he learned this as a puppy when he was around other dogs (we rescued him when he was one). Now that we've had him for a few years he does it less and less. Not sure if that helps- I'm also interested in what Rondack thinks.

And it's funny cuz she does it a me my husband and oldest son but NEVER my DD or youngest DS? But I'm going to try the tips she suggested

I'm glad you asked about that! I'll be stealing those tips too. I swear, I've learned more from @RondackHiker in the last few months than my own vet.

mandinkapants

These videos are super helpful! Thanks for posting! Our pups are still young (both about a year) and we've been taking actions to condition them to things that will be happening in the house. Playing baby sounds and videos and turning the swing and bouncer on and off in intervals so they get to know the different sounds and noises and changes in the house. Our female has a few anxiety issues, but has been getting better with gradual introductions and training in how to remove herself from things that make her uncomfortable, much like the first video.
The second video?! Who in their right mind would allow that?! Or encourage that?! This guy is completely ridiculous. I would never put my child or dog in a situation like that! I truly cannot understand why a parent would risk that or encourage this kind of behavior for a child or to interact with any animal in that way. People truly scare me. I wish common sense was more prevalent in the world.