Version (ECV) - & update on cbear (very, very long post!)

cbear47

Hello ladies! I'm sorry it has been a couple days, but still trying to process...

(1) Found out Minion was breech on Thurs Jan 16. Midwife scheduled a version with L&D team for Sat 1/16.

(2) After checking in to hospital...
(a) Minion monitored for an hour.
(b) After trying -and blowing- three times, the second nurse finally found a workable vein (I don't know if it had something to do with my particular veins, or being slightly dehydrated due to not being able to eat or drink anything 8 hrs prior!). I'm told when I go in to actually deliver I'm supposed to ask for "vein therapy."
(c) I was given two different muscle relaxers.
(d) After u/s determined Minion's position, the docs got to work. One "lifted" LO's butt out of my pelvic bone while the other held its head steady. Then, they both attempted to rotate Minion towards a head down position. They would stop and rest every time baby's heartbeat dropped. After three attempts, Minion was almost head down (yay!) ... But heartbeat was so low they decided to wait 1/2 hr before trying to move LO the rest of the way.
(e) Ready to finish the job, the docs came back in the room only to find Minion (stubborn as hell) had already moved its head back up to under my ribs and turned so it's back was around the outside, not the inside like before. They called in another doctor, and all three are now pushing and pulling on Minion trying to get it to turn. Soon, heartbeat dropped again, so another half-hour wait. Head was still under ribs.
(f) Third and final attempt (hospital policy so as not to over stress Minion): all three docs, again, but this time game plan is to turn the other direction. It's a longer turn, but doctors are convinced Minion is fighting them in turning counter-clockwise (side note: all I could think of was Zoolander, "I'm not an ambi-turner!") so, clockwise it is. They got almost all the way around before the nurse literally pulled their hands off me because of LO's heart rate.
(g) Even though Minion isn't head down, I'm in a belly-binder to keep it mostly head down... To encourage LO to shuffle down and engage it's head.

(3) If Minion is head down come Thurs midwife appt, yay!!! I can continue pregnancy till LO decideds it wants out!

(4) There is another version scheduled for next Sat just in case we're not head down yet.

(5) There is another, final try for version on Tues, Jan 28. This one is done with an epi. If we can successfully turn the Minion, I will then be medically induced. If not, I'm heading in for a c/s.

All of these steps are to try and reduce the chance of c/s. My ultimate goal is to try to have an unmedicated, vaginal birth. We'll see how likely that is come Thurs.

Pain- I'm not gonna lie, it sucked being manhandled like that. I am bruised all over my abdomen. I was told by the entire team that my pain tolerance is really high. I think I was just concentrating on not screaming. My DH has been "lifting" me off the bed and couch since Sat. (And, yesterday was his birthday!!! All we did all day was watch football, and I slept.)

All in all (so far) I am not going to say this process is for everyone, and I'm still going to have a long conversation with my midwives about the possibility of a breech birth. The docs told me most women just go ahead and schedule a c/s. We might just do that. I'm just...well, still processing. Thanks for reading my ramble!

BecksHRN

I was about to ask if anyone had a version and how it went! My LO is so far up in my ribs I look like I have a third boob. Thanks for sharing!

cattuccino

I truly cannot imagine that experience. Sending so many positive thoughts your way. And (gentle) hugs.
I admire your efforts and dedication and I really hope your little minion will be more cooperative.
Keep us posted!

mlynn333

Wow! Sounds like quite the process for you. Thanks for sharing! My ECV is Wednesday, and this info is super helpful for me. Ts & Ps that your minion gets engaged head down!

1linedrawing

I hope little butt stays head down and engages for you!

cbear47

@Mlynn333- good luck!!!! I did have the option of an epi, but turned it down. Whatever happens, I wish you the best luck and the gentlest of hands!!!

sweet*18

I hope LO cooperates next time. I really hope you get to have the birth you want. ((Hugs))

keags5496

Phew, that's a lot to take in that's for sure.  Sounds like you were amazing!  T&Ps that you're able to make the best decision for you and your LO.

ziggy903

Oh goodness! I hope minion cooperates and you can have the birth you want!

sdlaura

Wow, what an ordeal!  That is terrible that you are bruised and it was painful, but great that they told you that you had a high pain tolerance - that's what I was told while in early labor, and I ended up having a great med-free birth.  I hope that LO is ultimately head down and you are able to do the same!  Good luck!

Madelyn0713

Oh wow. That's wild. I hope things go well for you from here on out!

Btwilhelm

You're a strong lady, that sounds horrible. I would probably just say F it and take the c section.

I hope LO cooperates and you get the birth you want and deserve.

Amyjoy1972

Lots of hugs.

Giraffealaff

I'm hoping that the belly binder gives minion a nudge in the right direction! Hopefully you won't need to have anymore of those versions. Kudos to you for going through all that pain - and without an epi! 

Turn, Minion, Turn!

magentawarped

Ugh, sorry it was such a PITA for you. Hopefully, the Minion will cooperate and get into position with no more manhandling!

slwprincess

Ouch! Good luck- hope LO cooperates and stays put so you don't have to go thru that again!

ramfan05

Wow, sounds like you are one strong lady! FX that the Minion turns for you and that you can have the birth you want!

ShePersisted

You are a very brave woman for going through that!. Kudos to you momma and here's hoping LO stays head down!

cksmith29

Wow, I admire your dedication to getting the vaginal birth.  I'm much too big of a wimp to go through that.  FX your minion turns for you. 

Noethola

Keep telling that little one to turn head down! Here is hoping minion cooperates and you dont have to go through that again but are able to have the birth you want!

shashonie

I wish you the best of luck. Your Minion (and you) sound like troopers.

BzeetyD

So sorry it was a long and drawn out process. I hope your minion stays down! You are really brave and strong for going through that.

boogerbearoriginal

Sorry baby was being stubborn! Sounds like quite the ordeal. FWIW my first birth was medfree and it didn't seem that uncomfortable, so if LO stays in position I think you should be good to go. The zoolander reference cracked me up.

I am debating whether to schedule one next week if LO doesn't flip by Friday - she's still headup based on the hiccups last night   So this was a good post to hear about what it's like. From the brief discussion last week they always do an epi, is there a reason you didn't get one?

I totally understand your hopes to avoid the csection - I was told breech vaginal birth is basically a no-go with my practice so I've actually debated calling other OBs to see if any would take me on. It kind of sucks to feel like you're totally stuck based on a baby's stubborn position.

FX LO flips/stays head down for you!

mythaldo

Aww man, versions sound terrible. XFs the Minion keeps turning head down!

lihau88

Wow!! Sounds like a painful process. Hope your next appt his little head is down for you!! Good luck!!

MamaAllison

Thank you so much for sharing your story! My LO is breech too but I opted out of the ECV. I think you are really brave! Hope LO cooperates!!

MamaAllison

Thank you so much for sharing your story! My LO is breech too but I opted out of the ECV. I think you are really brave! Hope LO cooperates!!

Magnolia+Mama

My hubby and I are considering an ECV next week...haven't made a decision yet and appreciate you sharing your story.

kak808

Booger+Bear, just out of curiosity, why would you want to attempt a breech birth?  I know that you really want an unmedicated, vaginal birth (at least that's what OP said), but wouldn't you prefer to avoid something that would be risky to you and your baby?  I'd much rather compromise my wants and desires than potentially put my baby (and myself) in harm's way.  

All this being said, I do hope the baby turns for you both and you can have the birth that you want, but it does seem to me that your priorities are maybe a little out of order?

cbear47

@booger+bear - I had the option to get one. I chose not to for the same reason I would like to try for an unmedicated birth. I am just trying to avoid meds. (I also just generally am not a fan of pain killers, and only use them if absolutely necessary.)

@kak808 - IMHO, breech births aren't any "scarier" than c/s. Both have their horror stories, but if you have a skilled professional at your side, both mother and baby are generally okay. Having a c/s is a major surgery that I would like to avoid. (I would like to have an easier time recovering from birth.) Of course, if I NEED a c/s I'll get one without delay. I'm just trying to keep that as my last option.

gfam23

Thanks for sharing your story. I admire your perseverance and courage, and it sounds like you're in good (though painful) hands. GL and hope LO gets the memo!

boogerbearoriginal

cbear47 said:

@booger+bear - I had the option to get one. I chose not to for the same reason I would like to try for an unmedicated birth. I am just trying to avoid meds. (I also just generally am not a fan of pain killers, and only use them if absolutely necessary.)

 @kak808 - IMHO, breech births aren't any "scarier" than c/s. Both have their horror stories, but if you have a skilled professional at your side, both mother and baby are generally okay. Having a c/s is a major surgery that I would like to avoid. (I would like to have an easier time recovering from birth.) Of course, if I NEED a c/s I'll get one without delay. I'm just trying to keep that as my last option.

This. Vaginal breech birth can be just as safe as any birth (since all have risks). There isn't any one right answer and even the ACOG recommends the method of delivery for breech be made based on the provider experience and guidelines for eligibility for vaginal delivery. Csection tends to be the default because, sadly, fewer providers are experienced in vaginal breech delivery.  Also worth noting, the ACOG actually recommends EVC be tried before csection. 

IMO not training OBs on vaginal breech is a big disservice to the profession because, as we all know, birth cannot always be planned and while breech presentation is actually rare it does happen and sometimes baby flips very late and it's not discovered until mom is in labor. It seems a shame that women are basically given no choice except surgery due only to lack of training for the medical professional.

In addition to the increased risks for me with csection, there is evidence that progressing through the birth canal provides benefits to the baby that are not present when delivered via csection. Csections are valuable tools that save lives but not always the right answer nor should they always be the first choice. For me, given my history and current pregnancy, I don't feel that a csection is absolutely necessary. Like all medical decisions, it's something that needs to be decided on a case by case basis. 

cbear47

@booger+bear - I do feel VERY fortunate that my midwives practice alongside OBs (not "under" them). I also am planning on giving birth at a hospital that allows breech births. I'll find out on Thurs more of my options! GL w/ your LO! (I hope we all get the births we hope for!)

kak808

Booger+Bear said:

cbear47 said:

@booger+bear - I had the option to get one. I chose not to for the same reason I would like to try for an unmedicated birth. I am just trying to avoid meds. (I also just generally am not a fan of pain killers, and only use them if absolutely necessary.)

 @kak808 - IMHO, breech births aren't any "scarier" than c/s. Both have their horror stories, but if you have a skilled professional at your side, both mother and baby are generally okay. Having a c/s is a major surgery that I would like to avoid. (I would like to have an easier time recovering from birth.) Of course, if I NEED a c/s I'll get one without delay. I'm just trying to keep that as my last option.

This. Vaginal breech birth can be just as safe as any birth (since all have risks). There isn't any one right answer and even the ACOG recommends the method of delivery for breech be made based on the provider experience and guidelines for eligibility for vaginal delivery. Csection tends to be the default because, sadly, fewer providers are experienced in vaginal breech delivery.  Also worth noting, the ACOG actually recommends EVC be tried before csection. 

IMO not training OBs on vaginal breech is a big disservice to the profession because, as we all know, birth cannot always be planned and while breech presentation is actually rare it does happen and sometimes baby flips very late and it's not discovered until mom is in labor. It seems a shame that women are basically given no choice except surgery due only to lack of training for the medical professional.

In addition to the increased risks for me with csection, there is evidence that progressing through the birth canal provides benefits to the baby that are not present when delivered via csection. Csections are valuable tools that save lives but not always the right answer nor should they always be the first choice. For me, given my history and current pregnancy, I don't feel that a csection is absolutely necessary. Like all medical decisions, it's something that needs to be decided on a case by case basis. 

Hmm, well, I'm sure there are varying opinions on this and doctors have different experiences. And I agree that it would be useful to have doctors better trained on doing breech deliveries, even if they don't have to do it often.  I guess I'm mainly taking this point of view from my many doctor friends who, when I said my baby was breech, said there was NO WAY I should consider a vaginal delivery and they didn't know WHY WHY WHY people kept insisting on attempting to do them when their baby is breech. Maybe it's more of a generational thing (since they are all relatively young), but they all gave me the impression that it was a very bad idea. Maybe older school doctors are more comfortable with it?

boogerbearoriginal

kak808 said:

Hmm, well, I'm sure there are varying opinions on this and doctors have different experiences. And I agree that it would be useful to have doctors better trained on doing breech deliveries, even if they don't have to do it often.  I guess I'm mainly taking this point of view from my many doctor friends who, when I said my baby was breech, said there was NO WAY I should consider a vaginal delivery and they didn't know WHY WHY WHY people kept insisting on attempting to do them when their baby is breech. Maybe it's more of a generational thing (since they are all relatively young), but they all gave me the impression that it was a very bad idea. Maybe older school doctors are more comfortable with it?

There is an increased risk of LO dying in a vaginal breech birth compared to "regular" vaginal birth or a csection. But those also aren't without risk, including death, it's just lower.  I think part of my "wish" that all providers were trained is that it would allow the mother to make a choice whether to proceed with surgery or vaginal birth and all the risks/benefits each entails. I don't like the fact that there isn't a choice given for many women. 

I would think most Drs hate the thought of anyone losing their baby, especially if they feel it could've been prevented by surgery so I think that's where their mindset is at when they say just do csection.  But it is often presented as a forgone conclusion that vaginal breech = imminent danger, which studies have shown isn't actually the case.  And, certainly for some breech presentations it's not advisable to proceed with vaginal birth.

It is frustrating that it seems to be presented as vaginal breech = scary/bad, csection = totally safe. Because that isn't actually true either. Both options have very real risks. However, I truly believe a mother should be able to chose which path is best for her/her baby and not have one taken away due simply due to lack of training when evidence has shown it can be done safely. 

TBH - I haven't fully decided whether to opt for the scheduled csection if LO doesn't turn by 39wks. I am very conflicted about it because, well, I want to come home with a baby but I also want to come home. I hate very much that it feels like I have to chose risking my health vs risking LO's, and that's if I even can chose. Also, I have a toddler at home who needs his Mom to return safe/sound and, while it's hard to compare, the risk of maternal death is about 3x that of vaginal births, and that's in addition to other complications like infection/etc and has impacts on any future pregnancies. I know my Drs appointment this week will be very, very long to discuss all these things so that me/my H can make decisions on how to proceed.  This got tl;dr but, I don't want it to seem like I'm saying I don't want a csection because I am concerned about some vague "birth experience" or something trivial. But I do have reservations about undergoing surgery if it's not 100% necessary.

gfam23

@Booger+Bear just wanted to wish you luck
and I hope your dr visit goes well, leaving you and YH with peace and confidence either way. I know it would be a really tough spot for me to be in if my LO were breech. Lots of hugs to you.

bugandbibs

Wow, it sounds like you handled everything with strength and grace. FX your LO makes his way head down.

FWIW, several of my CNM friends tout using vibration to turn babies. Something simple like an electric toothbrush can get babies to turn. Apparently, babies don't like it and move their head away from the vibration and you can reposition them head down. Maybe something to ask your MW about?

cbear47

@kak808- I'm just trying to avoid an unnecessary surgery. If that means being in some pain to try and turn Minion before labor starts, I'm all for it. C/s are a very useful, and have saved countless lives (my mother and brother being two of them), but I would like to keep surgery reserved as my absolute last resort.

As a FTM, there are risks to both vaginal breech birth and a c/s. That is why I chose a midwife practice that works with a major hospital. I have both the OBs and midwives on my side!

I don't judge women who choose to have a c/s or RCS. I don't judge women who want to have an epi as soon as they check in to the hospital. I don't judge women who want to give birth at their homes. I don't judge women who want to give birth out in the middle of a stream with no one else around. (Okay, I might side-eye that one.) I know not every woman gets to experience her ideal birth, but I'm just trying to not limit my birthing options preemptivly.

kak808

cbear47 said:

@kak808- I'm just trying to avoid an unnecessary surgery. If that means being in some pain to try and turn Minion before labor starts, I'm all for it. C/s are a very useful, and have saved countless lives (my mother and brother being two of them), but I would like to keep surgery reserved as my absolute last resort. As a FTM, there are risks to both vaginal breech birth and a c/s. That is why I chose a midwife practice that works with a major hospital. I have both the OBs and midwives on my side! I don't judge women who choose to have a c/s or RCS. I don't judge women who want to have an epi as soon as they check in to the hospital. I don't judge women who want to give birth at their homes. I don't judge women who want to give birth out in the middle of a stream with no one else around. (Okay, I might side-eye that one.) I know not every woman gets to experience her ideal birth, but I'm just trying to not limit my birthing options preemptivly.

That makes sense to me!  Sorry if I sounded too judgy. Good luck to you and I hope everything works out for the best!  Since my baby is also breech and I'll likely end up with a c/s, maybe we'll have to compare notes after the fact

wheathergirl

Wow you are one strong mama! Sending positive T&Ps your way!