Ferber for naps is just breaking my heart

NDarya

So, we started Ferberizing DS 3 nights ago and I can already see dramatic change (for better) in his night sleep pattern. This method works wonders for us. But naps..oh man!..it's a totally different story. I knew that naps are harder and take much longer but I didn't expect it to be so bad. LO just cries and cries and cries. Most of the time he just cries his head off the entire nap (30-40 minutes) and I take him out of the crib. And then he is exhausted from crying and not getting any sleep. Me and my husband had a huge fight about it yesterday (he is the pushy in our family). I was so stressed out these couple of days mainly because of naps. I just can't take any more LO's crying. Today DH had to go to work and I totally modified the method. I still let DS cry but I go in every 5 minutes and rock him a little to relax and put in the crib really drowsy. What do you do for naps? Did you do Ferber for nights and naps at once? Any success stories? I'm so exhausted and heartbroken over this endless nap crying. TIA 

HZ2012

How long have you been tryimg it for? I'd say stick with it. It took LO about a week to get it for naps. He still will fuss for about a minute right before he falls asleep.
Are you increasing the amount of time before you go in? Maybe try going in without rocking him or taking him out and just reassuring him?
I put the mobile on for LO and it helps relax him.

flyliceandcoffee

I wish I could help, like others, Ferber worked great for nights, naps, nada. She's been known to scream for 2 hours (with check ins 5-10-15-20-etc-etc), pass out finally for 10 minutes, and then wake up again. Last week was the first time I managed to get her to nap in her crib for longer than 10 minutes and that lasted 15 minutes. I called it a victory when I got 2 out of 3 naps in the crib, but since they were both less than 20 minutes long, the last one I let her sleep on me just so she'd sleep..I probably didn't help myself with that one.

bumpuser8130818

I only lay him down in the crib for his first nap and that is usually about two hours, two and a half yesterday, which is the longest he's ever napped! But I nurse him until he falls asleep, rouse him a bit to burp him and make him aware that I am laying him in the crib, and then leave him. He always goes down without a fuss that way. But for the other nap later in the day, as soon as he realizes he is being put down in the crib he snaps awake and won't fall asleep. He will either play or scream, so I just hold him for that one. Yesterday we ran errands so he was super tired and went down for his second nap in the crib and I couldn't believe it! It was short but it was progress.

So I guess to sum it up, I don't let him cio at nap time longer than 15 min because I feel like he's just exhausting himself to sleep instead of choosing to put himself to sleep like he does at night. And I don't really want that so I just kind of offer up the nap and if he wants it he takes it, if not then he'll fall alseep the next time he nurses.

NDarya

Thanks everybody! Seeing that I'm not alone in this battle helps a lot. The worst part is that my own mother and bunch of my friends with kids disapprove of this method. My mom is blaming me that LO has to pay for our own parenting mistakes (!) - the bad habits that we developed earlier, like co-sleeping, nursing to sleep, etc. So. it's very discouraging. At the same time she suffered from sleep deprivation with my brother for 2,5 years!!! I feel cr@ppy about the whole thing but I really want DS to sleep well. 

Blueyed228

I find that having a really full belly helps.  My son just started to nap in his crib and sttn.  I didnt do Ferber or CIO so I dont have any advice there, but the full belly makes a big difference for us. 

He get a bottle, baby food, and then either goes down, or he might need a few more ounces to get him out.

B27

I don't agree with CIO. Research indicates that it is psychologically damaging. What about putting them down drowsy? Or a soother? Or, heaven forbid, letting them snuggle with you until they are ready? These babies will be grown up before we know it, why stress yourself out listening to them scream? That anxious feeling you get it there for a reaso, you are biologically wired to respond to your child

CarolineEmma

B27 said:

I don't agree with CIO. Research indicates that it is psychologically damaging. What about putting them down drowsy? Or a soother? Or, heaven forbid, letting them snuggle with you until they are ready? These babies will be grown up before we know it, why stress yourself out listening to them scream? That anxious feeling you get it there for a reaso, you are biologically wired to respond to your child

this is neither the time nor place for this. 

coffeeandbooks

B27 said:

I don't agree with CIO. Research indicates that it is psychologically damaging. What about putting them down drowsy? Or a soother? Or, heaven forbid, letting them snuggle with you until they are ready? These babies will be grown up before we know it, why stress yourself out listening to them scream? That anxious feeling you get it there for a reaso, you are biologically wired to respond to your child

In a perfect world this would work.   Believe me, I have like a two hour bedtime routine down pat to get my LO to sleep inclusive of many things including massage and lots and lots of cuddle time (like seriously hours) with me lying next to him.  He will not go to sleep until I leave the room...and he cries.  It sucks.   You have no idea. 
There could be consequences to CIO but there are also very real in your face consequences to a baby who is habitually sleep deprived..

Boo0512

B27 said:

I don't agree with CIO. Research indicates that it is psychologically damaging. What about putting them down drowsy? Or a soother? Or, heaven forbid, letting them snuggle with you until they are ready? These babies will be grown up before we know it, why stress yourself out listening to them scream? That anxious feeling you get it there for a reaso, you are biologically wired to respond to your child

My doctor recommended CIO. What's your degree in?

watuzzigal

@NDarya I know this is easier said than done, but try not to let your mom make you feel like that. You are doing the best you can, just as you have since DS was born. All babies are different, so chances are that even if you did everything she said, she'd still be wrong. :P

I'm often still a nap-holder, so I don't have advice--except not to listen to the random anti-CIO drive-bys.

B27

Random drive bys? Excuse me, but I have been with this group since the very beginning. Also, I am not meaning to offend, truly. I actually do have a degree in child developement, so there is that. I am sick of all these CIO posts about how sad people are to hear their baby cry, and yet think CIO is the only way to go. By the way, my psychologist sister also disagrees with CIO bc of research based facts. This is not a random "drive by" it is something I am passionate about. Just bc your pediatrician is a doctor does not mean they know everything. They are experts in medicine, not behavior scientists, not a psychologist. All I am saying, is that if it feels wrong, then it most likely is. there are so many other options. And guess what, my munchkin is a good sleeper- sometimes. And when she's not, I suck it up and take care of her, because she needs me. I work full time, manage a home, kids and pets, and suck it up. This is a short time in your child's life. And if you want to use CIO, and it works for you, well then that's fine too. But telling someone to "GTFO" for having an opinion, when you are basically whining that your chosen method is "hard" well then....it is what it is. If you all are so committed tot his method, then own it.

jedimindtrick

Amen, shank!

@B27, The part I don't get is if letting a baby protest cry and not rushing in and holding them is so psychologically harmful, then what do you do when you're driving and baby cries because he wants out of his car seat? Pull over and snuggle him so he doesn't cry? What about when my little angel cries because I stop him from putting his hands under daddy's recliner, or trying to eat the power cord, or trying to drink mommy's soda? Because I get great big tears whenever these things happen. If letting a baby cry a little bit is so damaging, then please, tell me how to raise my child.
I'm no "child psychologist" but I can tell you how damaging it when a child's every protest is met and not ignored. I have them in class all the time and they have plenty of issues. So please, when you have all the answers, come tell us all how to perfectly parent our children. Until then, listen to Shank, and GTFO with that attitude.

aibrean

We don't do CIO, but when we put her down it's after she's had a little cuddle with us and is sleepy already. If she wakes up we give her a bit of milk to top her off and put her back to bed. Last night it was 3oz (and that was after she had 8 just an hour before). She gets clustery at night.

Boo0512

@B27 I'm doing CIO with my baby for nighttime sleep and it is hard, but my baby is now getting almost double the sleep everyday.

I have a degree in psychology and sociology, does this make me an expert? Absolutely not but I wanted to give you some background info on me before you classify me as an uneducated redneck who'd rather be drinking moonshine than taking care of her kin.

@NJAZgirl made an excellent point, babies are going to cry for MANY reasons, it's inevitable. I didn't want to do CIO but after only being able to get my baby to sleep in a recliner with me for damn near a month, I knew we had to do something else. I tried putting her down drowsy or asleep. She stopped taking a pacifier about 2 months ago. I bought an aquarium, I bought a projector. I played music. I did a bedtime routine every night. It didn't fucking work and my baby was only sleeping about 7-8 hours in a 24 hour period. That isn't enough!

So I SUCKED IT UP and forced myself to be consistent in letting her put herself to sleep, instead of the EASIER option of nursing her to sleep and sleeping in the recliner with her.

CIO isn't for everyone and that's fine. However, my baby is snuggled all day, she is fed plenty, she is warm, clean, dry, and safe. All in all I know I'm a damn good mother and I have a happier, healthier baby because she is finally getting enough sleep.

Boo0512

Sorry OP I ranted but didn't respond to you, rude!

I'm doing CIO at night, not exactly Ferber but I've been nursing my baby to sleep and let her sleep on me for naps. So I'm no help, sorry. As others said, naps are harder because they aren't as tired during the day like they are at night.

I'm going to try putting my lo down asleep or drowsy in the next few days. I'd like to get our nighttime sleep on track a bit more before I tackle naps. Good luck, sorry you are having a hard time

watuzzigal

I actually recognize your screen name from early on, @B27. But you are around so little now that your judginess IS a drive-by and... well, shank said it far better than I could.

For the record, since you've been working SO much more than the rest of us and don't seem to know us, I don't do CIO either even when I'm a zombie, but making someone on here feel like crap (since, you know, you said everything so nicely) after they have already not been sleeping and are just trying to figure things out for their LO is not really my thing.

coffeeandbooks

NJAZgirl said:

Amen, shank! @B27, The part I don't get is if letting a baby protest cry and not rushing in and holding them is so psychologically harmful, then what do you do when you're driving and baby cries because he wants out of his car seat? Pull over and snuggle him so he doesn't cry? What about when my little angel cries because I stop him from putting his hands under daddy's recliner, or trying to eat the power cord, or trying to drink mommy's soda? Because I get great big tears whenever these things happen. If letting a baby cry a little bit is so damaging, then please, tell me how to raise my child. I'm no "child psychologist" but I can tell you how damaging it when a child's every protest is met and not ignored. I have them in class all the time and they have plenty of issues. So please, when you have all the answers, come tell us all how to perfectly parent our children. Until then, listen to Shank, and GTFO with that attitude.

I agree NJAZgirl that not all crying is bad.  I am like Shank, haven't done CIO, but I have a bad sleeper getting worse so CIO is always on the table for me and so I think about the affects of crying all the time. 

I think we are taught from an early age that all crying is bad and I personally have had to unlearn this as an adult.  Sometimes, having a good cry, releases stress and lets you move on.  For instance, I had a really sh**ty labor and tore badly.  After it was all said in done, I cried.  My midwives were horrified, like why are you crying, you need to move on and be happy.  But, I knew if I didn't cry and let myself feel the emotional pain of what happened I would be holding on to it for years.  So I had a good cry first and then I moved on.

So  my belief is that sometimes my LO has a bad day, and when he cries sometimes he isn't always communicating hunger or I need a diaper change, or even that he needs a cuddle but he really needs to just let out some emotion and I am really not doing him any favors by constantly trying to get him to hold it in by shushing him or putting a bottle in his mouth.

In any case, I think the whole thing about letting a baby cry is complicated and there many sides to consider which is why I don't think any one takes it lightly.

flyliceandcoffee

i'd say something, but everyone already said it for me...and now this neglectful mother must run off to take care of her poor neglected child...

jedimindtrick

@Boo0512, preach sister, preach!!

@mslaurats, exactly. Crying doesn't mean the world is ending.

People forget that there's no grey area with babies, they can only show pure emotion. But as a "child psychologist", I'm sure you know that. So when we as adults would said "dude, this sucks right now," or "I want that," or "I'm disappointed," a baby cries. And cries. And cries. That's why they can stop so quickly when you pick them up. I don't know about you, but when I'm really crying, I can't calm down that quickly. Just because he's crying doesn't mean there's something wrong. He's dry, he's fed, he's not in pain, things just aren't going the way he wants.

Oh, and if you don't like being judged for your "drive-by" criticism, or being told to GTFO, don't go complaining about us on the AP board. Kthanks.

drhibbard

B27 said:

I don't agree with CIO. Research indicates that it is psychologically damaging. What about putting them down drowsy? Or a soother? Or, heaven forbid, letting them snuggle with you until they are ready? These babies will be grown up before we know it, why stress yourself out listening to them scream? That anxious feeling you get it there for a reaso, you are biologically wired to respond to your child

Putting her down drowsy?! Soother?! Snuggling?! Never thought of these. Too bad all the psychological damage is done. Hopefully all the awesome sleep she's getting now will make up for it.

drhibbard

OP I'm no help. I have a cat napper. She'll go down but only for 15 to 30 minutes. Then her eyes are like saucers. I can tell she won't go back to sleep. I was hoping for some six month miracle that never happened!

1and1is3

I recognize B27. I don't agree that CIO is psychologically damaging. I've read research from both sides of the issue. Fuck the research and do what is best for your own individual child who you know better than anyone else does.
OP, my daughter doesn't always nap anymore. I put her in get crib for nap time and she just talks to herself instead of sleeping She just learned the new trick of pulling herself up on her crib so that makes it worse. No advice but I wanted to commiserate.

Schell2013

I love how B27 hasn't replied to anything. I know it's tough OP. I don't have a good sleeper either and defiantly know what your going through. Just be consistent.

FTR I CIO as a baby, also my H and my brother and none of us are physiologically damaged. Of course do what works for your family but people like B27 are just here to scare people and make them feel crappy about themselves.

NDarya

So we've been 6 nights into ferberizing so far and DS started to mostly STTN which is pretty impressive. Before he used to wake up literally every 2 hours. He still cries every time he goes to bed but not as bad as the first night. He got his flu booster shot yesterday and it messed things up a little as he was up from 3 am till 4.30am crying. We checked on him, soothed him, nothing worked when I finally gave up and rocked him to sleep. I knew he was uncomfortable and needed me for comfort. 

Naps are still a disaster and he would only fall asleep in my arms. If I put him in the crib even very drowsy he will wake up and start screaming. He won't fall asleep on his own. period. If I transition him to the crib after he falls asleep he will sleep perfectly fine somewhere between 45 min- 1,5 hours. I will continue gently working on his naps (staying in the room maybe, singing, etc). I can't handle ferber for naps right now.

@B27 I'm sure that not a single mother on this board would let her baby CIO if it wasn't a last resort. And it's not about parents' extra zzz's it's about babies who are constantly sleep deprived waking several times a night! Consider yourself lucky that your baby is a good sleeper but for the rest of us who tried literally everything and nothing works it's a hard but necessary choice. My baby is definitely happier during the day now so I guess it's more psychologically damaging for me than my baby. 

B27

Oh, geez louise I have been here since the beginning but I don't post all that often. Clearly, A child is going to try when you don't allow them to do harmful things like chew a power cord, and you obviously need to discourage that behavior, so that sort of thing is irrelevant to CIO. I'm not saying my child never cries btw. White flag of surrender is waved girls, I haven't posted again lately bc I'm BUSY! And I'm sorry, I should have been more tactful. I know this mothering thing is hard. As far as the AP board goes, yes I asked to join there, mostly bc this board is a) pretty clique "y" and b) I clears follow that sort of parenting style. Ps- maybe I'm a little crabby bc Im sleep deprived too- waking up at 12, 1, 3, then 4:30 to work bc my girl is teething I super fun

drhibbard

I'll take the white flag.  I can't speak for everyone who tried CIO, but, it was not an easy decision to make, I never intended and never thought I would do it and I tried everything else under the sun and my kid was suffering with the lack of sleep. 

So someone saying that what I did out of love and for the better of my child is doing psychological damage to her after a lot of time, energy, sleepless nights, worrying, wrestling with the decision to try it and the few (FEW) nights of hearing her cry which is HARD even though I knew it was the right thing to do for her (and it has proven to be so). Well...  I just wanted to tell you to gtfo.  It seems like a lot of other people did too.  PSYCHOLOGICAL DAMAGE TO OUR INFANTS.  That's a big blow to throw at a parent.

LaxMOM44

I don't agree with CIO. Research indicates that it is psychologically damaging. What about putting them down drowsy? Or a soother? Or, heaven forbid, letting them snuggle with you until they are ready? These babies will be grown up before we know it, why stress yourself out listening to them scream? That anxious feeling you get it there for a reaso, you are biologically wired to respond to your child

I don't agree with getting all sanctimommy on a post that is asking for help in a difficult situation. Ok so you're mother of the year, but you are rude if you rub it in the face of someone who is trying to do best by her kid. Sleep is not a luxury it's a biological necessity (says the mom who just got off a 15 hr.s flight with her sick, teething baby).if you want to preach start a new thread called "I am the best mom ever, my kid is perfectly emotionally adjusted here's a link to my web blog/where you can purchase my book". 

jedimindtrick

B27 said:

Oh, geez louise I have been here since the beginning but I don't post all that often. Clearly, A child is going to try when you don't allow them to do harmful things like chew a power cord, and you obviously need to discourage that behavior, so that sort of thing is irrelevant to CIO. I'm not saying my child never cries btw. White flag of surrender is waved girls, I haven't posted again lately bc I'm BUSY! And I'm sorry, I should have been more tactful. I know this mothering thing is hard. As far as the AP board goes, yes I asked to join there, mostly bc this board is a) pretty clique "y" and b) I clears follow that sort of parenting style. Ps- maybe I'm a little crabby bc Im sleep deprived too- waking up at 12, 1, 3, then 4:30 to work bc my girl is teething I super fun

Heh heh, cliquey?? And you say you were around in the pregnancy days? And NOW the board is cliquey? Okayyyyy.

And way to throw out the "I've been BUSY" comment. Cuz the rest of us aren't. We just let our babies cry and keep bumping.

Boo0512

@B27 I guess one could argue that crying is crying. Babies cry when you take a toy or something harmful away and they cry when it's bedtime.

The reasons that they're crying are essentially the same, they aren't getting what they want.

I think CIO can be psychologically damaging if the baby is also getting little to no affection/physical touch during the day. Also if the baby is not fed, not changed, or is too hot/too cold. No, Im not a doctor but I do have some common sense.

My baby gets tons of love/affection/physical touch during the day. She is now learning that at bedtime it's time to sleep and cuddle time can only last for so long.

As I said before, CIO isn't for everyone but IMO I was being selfish for a few weeks by continuing to sleep in a recliner with my baby because I didn't want to hear her cry. She lost a lot of sleep because of that. She is sleeping so much better now and I wish I would've started sooner.

LaxMOM44

boo, this is why I love you. you are the happy, see the bright side ying, to my angry tactless yang.

LaxMOM44

B27 said:

Random drive bys? Excuse me, but I have been with this group since the very beginning. Also, I am not meaning to offend, truly. I actually do have a degree in child developement, so there is that. I am sick of all these CIO posts about how sad people are to hear their baby cry, and yet think CIO is the only way to go. By the way, my psychologist sister also disagrees with CIO bc of research based facts. This is not a random "drive by" it is something I am passionate about. Just bc your pediatrician is a doctor does not mean they know everything. They are experts in medicine, not behavior scientists, not a psychologist. All I am saying, is that if it feels wrong, then it most likely is. there are so many other options. And guess what, my munchkin is a good sleeper- sometimes. And when she's not, I suck it up and take care of her, because she needs me. I work full time, manage a home, kids and pets, and suck it up. This is a short time in your child's life. And if you want to use CIO, and it works for you, well then that's fine too. But telling someone to "GTFO" for having an opinion, when you are basically whining that your chosen method is "hard" well then....it is what it is. If you all are so committed tot his method, then own it.

SEE AWESOME GIF BELOW 

LaxMOM44

ahhhhh how do you gif on the full website. stupid iPhone roaming charges. 

flyliceandcoffee

NJAZgirl said:

Oh, geez louise I have been here since the beginning but I don't post all that often. Clearly, A child is going to try when you don't allow them to do harmful things like chew a power cord, and you obviously need to discourage that behavior, so that sort of thing is irrelevant to CIO. I'm not saying my child never cries btw. White flag of surrender is waved girls, I haven't posted again lately bc I'm BUSY! And I'm sorry, I should have been more tactful. I know this mothering thing is hard. As far as the AP board goes, yes I asked to join there, mostly bc this board is a) pretty clique "y" and b) I clears follow that sort of parenting style. Ps- maybe I'm a little crabby bc Im sleep deprived too- waking up at 12, 1, 3, then 4:30 to work bc my girl is teething I super fun

Heh heh, cliquey?? And you say you were around in the pregnancy days? And NOW the board is cliquey? Okayyyyy. And way to throw out the "I've been BUSY" comment. Cuz the rest of us aren't. We just let our babies cry and keep bumping.

wait, wait, can i be part of this clique?! I didn't realize we were cliquey...or maybe I'm not one of the cool kids. btw, I'm gonna go comment on your other post now, thanks for letting us know it was there!

LaxMOM44

LaxMOM44

Shantxtell said:

Also, most of the women here are desperate, and have " sucked it up" for the past 6/7 months. We have households to run, jobs and pets too. You aren't a special fucking snowflake.

Preach!

jedimindtrick

Even Spider-Man has had to CIO sometimes...

Shoegal36

It's funny to me when someone goes on about how they are "against CIO" but they have a baby that is a good sleeper. Pretty sure none of us decided when we were PG that we were "pro CIO" and couldn't wait to try the method lol Its a last resort. If you don't get to that point, great. You should just stay out of these threads then.

I'm also wondering what these "other methods" are. For us, putting down drowsy = instant screaming and she has never taken a soother. So, I just let her stay up all night? Cause that makes her happy? Is that what "taking care of her" means? That sounds healthy.

I would really like to see this research that shows letting a baby learn to self soothe causes psychological harm because I haven't been able to find anything other than facts stating there hasn't been research showing that it doesn't. There's a lot of things that haven't been researched.

Also, no offense to your sister but my SIL is a psychologist and I'd rather take parenting advice from my dentist.

ETA I meant to quote and forgot so just wanted to clarify this isn't directed at the OP. I think it's quite obvious who I'm referring to.

B27

Hey girls, if you read my first post it really wasn't that bad and did have some advice. I already apologized. The second post was in response to the rudeness thrown MY way. But who cares, do what works for your family. You all have your opinion, I am entitled to mine. Honestly, the thought of a child "crying their head off" for 30-40 minutes got under my skin. But if it works for you, fantastic. I actually never said any of you were bad mothers, maybe some of you are sensitive and thought that bc of the fact that CIO can be psychologically damaging, but I don't think it was necessary to follow me to another board and continue to be hostile.

watuzzigal

The foot in your mouth... Is it stuck?

Schell2013

::hits face with palm::