The great Elf on a shelf debate...

DaizyMay22

So lately there is an article a women wrote about elf on a shelf being awful for children that any parent who does it is evil. This has sparked a huge debate with my friends. We do elf on a shelf but our elf doesn't do naughty things at our house at night, he just ends up in a different spot each day so its fun for the kids to see where our elf ends up each morning. I for one do not see the point in making the elf do naughty things at night. one it defeats the purpose of the elf being there to make sure you are being good and reporting back to Santa and two it takes so much time and effort to do it!
I'm curious to see what most of the ladies on here think about elf on a shelf.

pinkshades05

I don't have an opinion and we don't have one at our house. It's not a tradition that we are going to do this year but that may change. Maybe instead of an elf, I'll use a reindeer who will visit everyday Dec1-25 and bring little treats? I think for kids it's the excitement of finding them rather than the threat of tattling.

And I would use a reindeer because the elf is slightly creepy to me.

kittyh8r

I don't like the elf on the shelf for a couple reasons. One being is the elf is creepy looking. The second reason I don't like the elf is because a lot of people use it to scare their children into behaving so that they get more presents. I find the whole naughty, nice list to be manipulating as well. I know people who use the elf as a fun Christmas extra, not as a way to keep their children from misbehaving. I think some people do cute things with the elf. It's not for us, but then again, we're not into the whole Santa thing, either.  

MrMrsandBaby

@pinkshades05 and @klutzygirl - I agree with both of you!

We aren't doing EoS because, first - I think Allison is way too young to get it.  Second, the elf is a little creepy to me.  Third, I'm lazy.

I don't think it scares kids into behaving unless the parents make it that way and if they do, well that is their decision and will not impact how I do it (if I did).  I think the idea is cute (I love the reindeer idea too!) to have a little something watching to see all the good things you are doing.  But I do not like the elf!

On a related note, I love Santa!  I love everything about it...I like the naughty/nice part because it is fun.  I also think anyone who uses Santa as a threat is an exasperated parent, not an asshole who is threatening their kids.  I don't plan on doing it but I'm sure it will happen that at some point in Allison's life I will say, "If you don't stop being naughty Santa won't come this year."  And that doesn't make me manipulative, it makes me human.

kittyh8r

MrMrsandBaby said:

@pinkshades05 and @klutzygirl - I agree with both of you!

We aren't doing EoS because, first - I think Allison is way too young to get it.  Second, the elf is a little creepy to me.  Third, I'm lazy.

I don't think it scares kids into behaving unless the parents make it that way and if they do, well that is their decision and will not impact how I do it (if I did).  I think the idea is cute (I love the reindeer idea too!) to have a little something watching to see all the good things you are doing.  But I do not like the elf!

On a related note, I love Santa!  I love everything about it...I like the naughty/nice part because it is fun.  I also think anyone who uses Santa as a threat is an exasperated parent, not an asshole who is threatening their kids.  I don't plan on doing it but I'm sure it will happen that at some point in Allison's life I will say, "If you don't stop being naughty Santa won't come this year."  And that doesn't make me manipulative, it makes me human.

I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagree on the manipulative part. 

I honestly don't care what parents do. I have friends who do it and it's so cute. I also have family who use Santa as way to keep their kids in check. It works for them....for the month of December. I know that's not the typical, but that's the part of Santa and naughty/nice list that I don't like.  I have never judged a parent because they do Elf on a Shelf or Santa, though. Do whatever you want. Emma will likely know of Santa, but that he's a made up fairy tale. I already have family jumping down my neck about Emma ruining Santa for their kids. Sorry, it's not my job to keep Santa going in your family. 

pinkshades05

@EmmaBoBemma--I hear what you are saying. I was planning on explaining to Nat that Santa (St. Nicholas) was a person who lived long ago and gave toys to children. Since then, we have the tradition of being "Santa" to each other on Christmas. I know this is a little abstract but its a way to keep Santa real without making him an actual person today.

Sept07b2b

I guess for me I'm a little thrown by the argument that EoS or naughty/nice list is "manipulative" in a bad way.  I would assume at some point in your parenting, you make "deals" with your kids and teach them there are consequences for actions/inactions.  

If you stay in your bedroom, you get a sticker in the morning...if you poop in the potty, you get a star...if you eat your vegetables, you get dessert...if you don't clean up your toys, you can't watch tv...if you hit your sister, you get a timeout.  

Is it really that different to say if you don't behave, Santa won't bring you presents?  I'm not suggesting abusing it is appropriate, and I'm sure there are parents who take it way too far, but I think it can be harmless if used appropriately.  Is it really all that much more manipulative than any other parenting technique involving discipline/reward?  Sure, in an ideal world, your child would just listen to you when you ask them to do things/don't do things, but I'm not sure it's really realistic to think that you'll never create incentives or punishments for your children based on their actions, and to me, this really isn't all that different.  It's just a bigger scale.  Isn't it a little strange to give your kids a whole bunch of presents for doing nothing?  

If you don't want to do EoS or naughty/nice because you don't want your kids to believe in Santa, that's totally your choice, but I think that is different than not doing it because you think it's manipulating your child into behaving.  If you really thought about it, I am sure there have been times you have "manipulated" your child into behaving by promising something or threatening to take something away, and I'm sure there will be more of those times in the future.  If not, then more power to you, and please share your secret!  

DaizyMay22

I like seeing all these different point of views! I had a friend who got called a Scrooge and that she is depriving her kids of imagination because she doesn't do EoS. I thought that was pretty extreme. Everyone has different traditions and choose to celebrate the holidays differently. I think its funny that there's been such a huge deal made over it.

kittyh8r

Sept07b2b said:

I guess for me I'm a little thrown by the argument that EoS or naughty/nice list is "manipulative" in a bad way.  I would assume at some point in your parenting, you make "deals" with your kids and teach them there are consequences for actions/inactions.  

If you stay in your bedroom, you get a sticker in the morning...if you poop in the potty, you get a star...if you eat your vegetables, you get dessert...if you don't clean up your toys, you can't watch tv...if you hit your sister, you get a timeout.  

Is it really that different to say if you don't behave, Santa won't bring you presents?  I'm not suggesting abusing it is appropriate, and I'm sure there are parents who take it way too far, but I think it can be harmless if used appropriately.  Is it really all that much more manipulative than any other parenting technique involving discipline/reward?  Sure, in an ideal world, your child would just listen to you when you ask them to do things/don't do things, but I'm not sure it's really realistic to think that you'll never create incentives or punishments for your children based on their actions, and to me, this really isn't all that different.  It's just a bigger scale.  Isn't it a little strange to give your kids a whole bunch of presents for doing nothing?  

If you don't want to do EoS or naughty/nice because you don't want your kids to believe in Santa, that's totally your choice, but I think that is different than not doing it because you think it's manipulating your child into behaving.  If you really thought about it, I am sure there have been times you have "manipulated" your child into behaving by promising something or threatening to take something away, and I'm sure there will be more of those times in the future.  If not, then more power to you, and please share your secret!  

Christmas holds a very dear place in our home. It isn't all about gifts to us. Sure, Emma get 3 gifts for Christmas, but that's because Jesus got 3 gifts on the very first Christmas. So, while she does get gifts "for no reason" there is sort of a reasoning behind it. We're not, not doing Santa because we think it's manipulative, that's just an added bonus. We're not doing Santa, because he has nothing to do with Christmas....for us. It's centered around Christ. I know lots of people who center their Christmas' around Christ and still have Santa in the mix of it all. That's great for them, we would just like to make the season about something else. I am sure it sounds super Bible thumping, I promise we're not crazy people who don't watch TV and pour the Bible down everyone's throats. With how H and I grew up, we both feel it's better to center Christmas around a season of giving to less fortunate and around Christ. 

I hope this didn't make me sound like a crazy religious person. 

Sept07b2b

@EmmaBoBemma - Just so you know, my response really was about the whole "manipulative" part.  I fully respect a family's decision to not integrate Santa into their traditions.  You are completely and totally right about Christmas being about Christ.  We, as a society, have added everything else to the mix, and I fully respect your decision to keep it "real." 

pinkshades05

@EmmaBoBemma--Sounds like a great plan And yeah, it does sound very religious but that works for you so don't feel bad about it! That's what the holidays are about! The bit about Santa you can still explain if she ever asks why Santa is included in Christmas.

@Sept07b2b--I do hear you what you're saying and it made me think about when I was a kid. None of the "manipulation" ever scarred me, but made me think twice about the things I did because I didn't enjoy the consequences. There are definitely worse things you can do as parents! Still, I'm not a huge fan of the EoS. He really is creepy!

MrMrsandBaby

For everyone NOT "doing" Santa - I just have to say, I know it will happen, but I'm going to be so pissed when a kid on the playground tells Allison that Santa isn't real.  I hope you teach your kids that even though your family doesn't do it, maybe her friends do. 

Also, I think that the whole Santa thing is way over thought in general.  It is like anything else, we can say we have a plan but until it happens there is no guarantee...

pinkshades05

MrMrsandBaby said:

Also, I think that the whole Santa thing is way over thought in general.  It is like anything else, we can say we have a plan but until it happens there is no guarantee...

Oh definitely! I think this describes my parenting technique perfectly I swore she would never watch TV and now all she wants to do is watch Bubble Guppies all day...

kittyh8r

MrMrsandBaby said:

For everyone NOT "doing" Santa - I just have to say, I know it will happen, but I'm going to be so pissed when a kid on the playground tells Allison that Santa isn't real.  I hope you teach your kids that even though your family doesn't do it, maybe her friends do. 

Also, I think that the whole Santa thing is way over thought in general.  It is like anything else, we can say we have a plan but until it happens there is no guarantee...

Like I said, we'll teach her that Santa is a fairy tale. A lot of the time children believe fairy tales are real anyways. haha She'll know that some children believe Santa is real and that it's okay to believe that. I don't know how she'll handle that. Emma will also be homeschooled, so I am not too worried about her ruining it for a bunch of kids. She'll still have friends, church kids and family, so we'll work on it. Also, like I said, it's not my job to keep up your Santa tradition. Just like I am going to teach Emma that it's okay for other kids to believe Santa is real...you can teach your daughter that some believe Santa isn't and that's okay, too. That way it's no shock when they hear it. 

When I was 5 a kid told me Santa was fake, I didn't believe him. 

pinkshades05

Also: My mom still tells me that the day I stop believing in Santa is the day she stops buying me Christmas gifts. I still believe

MrMrsandBaby

EmmaBoBemma said:

MrMrsandBaby said:

For everyone NOT "doing" Santa - I just have to say, I know it will happen, but I'm going to be so pissed when a kid on the playground tells Allison that Santa isn't real.  I hope you teach your kids that even though your family doesn't do it, maybe her friends do. 

Also, I think that the whole Santa thing is way over thought in general.  It is like anything else, we can say we have a plan but until it happens there is no guarantee...

Like I said, we'll teach her that Santa is a fairy tale. A lot of the time children believe fairy tales are real anyways. haha She'll know that some children believe Santa is real and that it's okay to believe that. I don't know how she'll handle that. Emma will also be homeschooled, so I am not too worried about her ruining it for a bunch of kids. She'll still have friends, church kids and family, so we'll work on it. Also, like I said, it's not my job to keep up your Santa tradition. Just like I am going to teach Emma that it's okay for other kids to believe Santa is real...you can teach your daughter that some believe Santa isn't and that's okay, too. That way it's no shock when they hear it. 

When I was 5 a kid told me Santa was fake, I didn't believe him. 

Never asked you to so I am not sure where that particular line came from.  All I hope is that parents who don't "do" Santa are considerate of those of us who do and tell their children exactly what you said in your next line.  So it sounds like for that one part we are on the same page.