Waitress fired for calling cops on breastfeeding mom who drank booze

Luna C

https://gawker.com/woman-fired-after-calling-cops-on-mom-drinking-and-bre-1473591933

And .... discuss!

Personally, I don't think we have enough detail to know for sure who was being the a-hole here. 

nunzchucks

I am so on the fence about this. On one hand, the mom shouldn't be drinking and bf-ing. If I wanted wine, I'd make sure it was enough time before my next feeding or we'd do a bottle and I would pump and dump. On the other hand, is it really the server's business to call the police? I felt like that was a bit extreme.

ElTrain5

"However, a manager at Gusano's said the call to police was "not the reason" she lost her job."

That's says a lot to me.  

Also, what is "drink after drink"? Two drinks? Was the baby fed before the drinking? After? Theres a drastic difference from some judgmental vigilante waitress calling the cops on a mom who had a couple glasses of wine and a mom who downs 12 jager shots and puts baby to breast.  

This just reminds me of the asshole waiters who won't serve a glass of wine to a pregnant person.  Which is obviously ignorant and ridiculous.  

But who knows extreme this particular situation really was.  It would have to be truly outrageous to justify a call to police, but based on the fact that she was actually arrested and charged, maybe it was? Maybe she really did do twelve jager shots and THEN breastfeed.  In that case, I could see a neglect charge being brought. 

ElTrain5

LilNunz1 said:

I am so on the fence about this. On one hand, the mom shouldn't be drinking and bf-ing. If I wanted wine, I'd make sure it was enough time before my next feeding or we'd do a bottle and I would pump and dump. On the other hand, is it really the server's business to call the police? I felt like that was a bit extreme.

I feel like there needs to be a PSA on "pumping and dumping". Breast milk supply is just like your blood when it comes to alcohol. After a period of time the alcohol is no longer present in either. There is no benefit to pumping your milk and dumping it. You just need to wait it out. (Although pumping prior to drinking can be helpful if you're missing a feeding) They make test strips for milk if you are ever unsure if everything is out of your system.


Edit: as PP pointed out, some women pump due to engorgement. My post was geared towards those who think their milk supply is "tainted" after consuming alcohol and the need to pump out the "bad" milk or else baby will get it, which is completely unnecessary.

SmurfyLite

It says in the article that the woman had drink after drink and then put her child to breast... so I get it, I understand that reaction, I understand the call. I think that if you see a child being put in danger by the actions of a caregiver, it is a civil responsibility to do something about it. IF she was drinking excessively, which the article seems to be saying, I agree with the waitresses decision.

Luna C

LilNunz1 said:

I am so on the fence about this. On one hand, the mom shouldn't be drinking and bf-ing. If I wanted wine, I'd make sure it was enough time before my next feeding or we'd do a bottle and I would pump and dump. On the other hand, is it really the server's business to call the police? I felt like that was a bit extreme.

It so depends on the timing (and the amount) though. From what I've read, if she's bfing and having her first drink that's actually the safest time, because the booze doesn't have time to get into the milk, and will be out of her system by the time the next feeding rolls around. 

Now, if she had 5 drinks before she started feeding, that's another story. It's not really clear from the reports what happened. Nor is it clear if mom had two beers over the course of three hours or if she was pounding half a dozen shots in an hour. That makes a big difference too. "Drink after drink" could mean either of those things, or anything in between. 

Luna C

SmurfyLite said:

It says in the article that the woman had drink after drink and then put her child to breast... 

That's actually not what the article says.  "...calling the police on a woman drinking alcohol and breastfeeding her child at the same time"

That's totally different. 

To me, it's not clear exactly what happened, so I'm reserving judgment. But I'm leaning toward the waitress being a nosy asshole. 

SmurfyLite

k breastfeeding at the same time as drinking, same thing to me.

ElTrain5

SmurfyLite said:

k breastfeeding at the same time as drinking, same thing to me.

Right, but the question is was she breast feeding during her FIRST drink, and then didn't BF again? Which would be safe.

Luna C

SmurfyLite said:

k breastfeeding at the same time as drinking, same thing to me.

Then you don't understand the mechanics of how the body metabolizes alcohol and you should probably educate yourself before forming strong opinions about it. 

K?

nunzchucks

ElTrain5 said:

LilNunz1 said:

I am so on the fence about this. On one hand, the mom shouldn't be drinking and bf-ing. If I wanted wine, I'd make sure it was enough time before my next feeding or we'd do a bottle and I would pump and dump. On the other hand, is it really the server's business to call the police? I felt like that was a bit extreme.

I feel like there needs to be a PSA on "pumping and dumping". Breast milk supply is just like your blood when it comes to alcohol. After a period of time the alcohol is no longer present in either. There is no benefit to pumping your milk and dumping it. You just need to wait it out. (Although pumping prior to drinking can be helpful if you're missing a feeding) They make test strips for milk if you are ever unsure if everything is out of your system.

I know this. I would pump to keep my supply up and relieve engorgement. As I said, "we'd do a bottle AND I would pump and dump".

ElTrain5

LilNunz1 said:

ElTrain5 said:

LilNunz1 said:

I am so on the fence about this. On one hand, the mom shouldn't be drinking and bf-ing. If I wanted wine, I'd make sure it was enough time before my next feeding or we'd do a bottle and I would pump and dump. On the other hand, is it really the server's business to call the police? I felt like that was a bit extreme.

I feel like there needs to be a PSA on "pumping and dumping". Breast milk supply is just like your blood when it comes to alcohol. After a period of time the alcohol is no longer present in either. There is no benefit to pumping your milk and dumping it. You just need to wait it out. (Although pumping prior to drinking can be helpful if you're missing a feeding) They make test strips for milk if you are ever unsure if everything is out of your system.

I know this. I would pump to keep my supply up and relieve engorgement. As I said, "we'd do a bottle AND I would pump and dump".

Gotcha. My post was really geared toward woman that think they need to pump and dump to get rid of the alcohol. Unfortunately a LOT of women are under this impression.

lifeisbetteronthered

A couple of weeks after DD was born we went out for dinner. It had been nearly a year since I had a drink and the special was mojitos (my favorite). I ordered 1. Just before it was served DD woke and was hungry. I started nursing her and the waitress arrived with our drinks. She handed me a water, and DH a water, beer and my mojito. I said that it was for me and she said "you're breastfeeding". I was about to explain that there isn't a direct pipe from my mouth to my nipple and that baby would be fine, but didn't bother and just told mcjudgerson to pass me the drink.

We don't know enough to judge either this mom or server, but I do wonder why, if she was that concerned, she kept serving her drinks.

SmurfyLite

SmurfyLite said:

k breastfeeding at the same time as drinking, same thing to me.

Then you don't understand the mechanics of how the body metabolizes alcohol and you should probably educate yourself before forming strong opinions about it. 

K?

 

 

Ya, I don't let anybody handle my child while they are  consuming alcohol. Something about drinking and handling a child doesn't sit well with me either. I feel that never the two shall meet. That is my opinion. Getting snippy isn't going to change it.

SmurfyLite

SmurfyLite said:

k breastfeeding at the same time as drinking, same thing to me.

Then you don't understand the mechanics of how the body metabolizes alcohol and you should probably educate yourself before forming strong opinions about it. 

K?

 

 

Ya, I don't let anybody handle my child while they are  consuming alcohol. Something about drinking and handling a child doesn't sit well with me either. I feel that never the two shall meet. That is my opinion. Getting snippy isn't going to change it.

Luna C

Snippy? Pointing out that you're conflating things that are not the same isn't "snippy," it's just pointing out you're spreading misinformation and making poorly informed choices. 

If I was trying to be snippy, I'd make a comment about your grammar and spelling. 

SmurfyLite

Regardless, you don't know the case here, nor do I. I would have done the same thing, if that makes me an asshole, I'll wear the badge, no problem. I just don't see why alcohol needs to play such a huge role in people's lives that they needs to partake while caring for their children. Err on the side of caution, always, when it comes to small children. If there is a chance she is partaking in behaviour that is a) exposing that child to alcohol, and b) Putting that child in a potentially harmful situation, I 100% support doing something about it.

Luna C

Ok, Ms. Sanctimony. So do you call the cops every time you see a parent take their kid to McD's or plop them in front of the TV for a few hours? Because that will do far more harm to the kid long-term than mom having a fucking glass of wine once in awhile. 

And please drop the bullshit "I just don't see why alcohol needs to play such a huge role in people's lives that they needs to partake while caring for their children" line.  Having a drink on occasion doesn't make one an alcoholic. When you act like it does it just tells normal people to ignore everything else you say.

SmurfyLite

Having " drink after drink" while having your child in your care is something entirely different than a glass of wine at dinner. The article leads to believe that this woman had several drinks. Which would mean that she likely should not be caring for a small child if she would pressumably be under the influence.

SaraT717

I think this could have been handled completely different if the women was infact drinking excesivly then don't serve her.

For me personally if I was having A drink at dinner and bfing it's none of your damn business.

I don't ever see anyone calling the cops on women pregnant and smoking or smoking in a car with kids inside.

Luna C

Define what "drink after drink" actually means. Not how it sounds. What it MEANS.

It could mean anything. Including that she had two drinks AFTER she finished breastfeeding. I would think that if this waitress is nosy enough to call the cops she has a good idea of what she drank. So why doesn't she say, "She had five shots of vodka within 20 minutes of feeding the baby." Just saying "drink after drink" sounds bad but doesn't actually mean anything. 

Would it absolutely kill you to take five seconds to stop and think before speaking?

And I notice you can't be bothered to answer my question: Would you call the cops on someone feeding their kid a chicken mcnugget meal? Or who uses the TV as a babysitter? Or do you reserve your sanctimony for people who dare have a drink on occasion?

SmurfyLite

Why would I answer something so ridiculous. Being intoxicated and caring for your child =/= feeding your kid a nugget or letting them watch tv. If you are under the influence and caring for a vulnerable child I will always have an issue with it. Nothing you say will be able to change that.

And I pose the same question to you. Define what "drink after drink" means. If you can't tell me that she was not drinking heavily, and did not breastfeed after having several drinks/time passing where it would make her breastmilk unsafe, you can not tell me that my reaction is incorrect. This was posted asking opinions. I have stated mine. It will not be changing. I think it is irresponsible to indulge in alcohol while caring for a child. And I think it is irresponsible to risk that alcohol being passed on to a child while breastfeeding. With the limited information the article gives, neither one of us will ever be able to defend our opinions with 100% fact, so may as well drop it and consider it what it is: a difference in opinion.

SmurfyLite

MegK82 said:

I think there are states where it is now illegal to smoke in a car with kids.  So, people may start calling the cops if they see that. 

There are. It is illegal here to smoke with anyone under the age of 16. Hefty fines. And people abosutely call the cops over it.

vixey

SmurfyLite said:

Why would I answer something so ridiculous. Being intoxicated and caring for your child =/= feeding your kid a nugget or letting them watch tv. If you are under the influence and caring for a vulnerable child I will always have an issue with it. Nothing you say will be able to change that.

And I pose the same question to you. Define what "drink after drink" means. If you can't tell me that she was not drinking heavily, and did not breastfeed after having several drinks/time passing where it would make her breastmilk unsafe, you can not tell me that my reaction is incorrect. This was posted asking opinions. I have stated mine. It will not be changing. I think it is irresponsible to indulge in alcohol while caring for a child. And I think it is irresponsible to risk that alcohol being passed on to a child while breastfeeding. With the limited information the article gives, neither one of us will ever be able to defend our opinions with 100% fact, so may as well drop it and consider it what it is: a difference in opinion.

You think it is irresponsible to indulge in alcohol while caring for a child? So if mom and dad each have a beer with dinner, they're now irresponsible? That's ridiculous.

SaraT717

I know in Oregon I think the law goes into effect January 2014. I think it's a great thing it drives me crazy seeing it.

SmurfyLite

K, this is the way I think of it. Say you put the baby down to bed, it's just you and your husband in the house, and it's adult time. You crack open a bottle of wine, each have a couple drinks, and all of a sudden baby is up with a high fever/asthma attack/ bizarre rash/lord knows what else (We have been awoken to all three of those scenarios with my kid). You have both had a couple drinks, and you can't know for certain if you would blow over or not if you were pulled over and tested roadside. THAT is a huge issue to me.

I feel that there should always be a parent/caregiver available to a child who is sober. You never know what is going to happen, that's one of those wonderfully scary things about having a small child.

SmurfyLite

Maybe it's a UO, but it's my opinion. Alcohol and children are not a good mix.

vixey

SmurfyLite said:

K, this is the way I think of it. Say you put the baby down to bed, it's just you and your husband in the house, and it's adult time. You crack open a bottle of wine, each have a couple drinks, and all of a sudden baby is up with a high fever/asthma attack/ bizarre rash/lord knows what else (We have been awoken to all three of those scenarios with my kid). You have both had a couple drinks, and you can't know for certain if you would blow over or not if you were pulled over and tested roadside. THAT is a huge issue to me.

I feel that there should always be a parent/caregiver available to a child who is sober. You never know what is going to happen, that's one of those wonderfully scary things about having a small child.

I understand your point, but saying any alcolol consumption=irresponsible parent is a giant leap.

Luna C

SmurfyLite said:

And I pose the same question to you. Define what "drink after drink" means. ... I think it is irresponsible to indulge in alcohol while caring for a child. And I think it is irresponsible to risk that alcohol being passed on to a child while breastfeeding. 

Can you read? I already pointed out that "drink after drink" means nothing and is the kind of thing you say when you want to make something sound bad but the facts don't actually back it up. 

And by your logic, parents need to drop all alcohol for what ... 18 years? Or only 16 and the kid is old enough to drive? What about people who live in the city and don't need to drive to the hospital? Can they start drinking again when the kid is born? When it's five? Do they also have to wait to 18? Do you give ANY thought at ALL to ANYTHING before you fart out this nonsense? Because it sure seems like your worldview boils down to "I don't like a thing, therefore it is wrong and people who do it are bad! And I don't want to be bothered with any facts or logic."

You are an obnoxious, sanctimonious prig. Just my opinion. I sincerely hope some busybody like yourself calls the cops on you for one of your parenting choices so you can get a taste of your own hypocrisy. 

And, just for the record, your use of "k" is fucking annoying and makes you sound like a 12 year old. Which would actually explain some of your reasoning here. 

nunzchucks

That's cool @ElTrain5

KristaU831

Alabamapinks is that you?

wtfisup

I was told once that drinking while BFing makes the most sense: the baby is drinking while you drink, thus the booze can't possibly digest fast enough to get into the milk. It makes sense. 

wtfisup

SmurfyLite said:

K, this is the way I think of it. Say you put the baby down to bed, it's just you and your husband in the house, and it's adult time. You crack open a bottle of wine, each have a couple drinks, and all of a sudden baby is up with a high fever/asthma attack/ bizarre rash/lord knows what else (We have been awoken to all three of those scenarios with my kid). You have both had a couple drinks, and you can't know for certain if you would blow over or not if you were pulled over and tested roadside. THAT is a huge issue to me.

I feel that there should always be a parent/caregiver available to a child who is sober. You never know what is going to happen, that's one of those wonderfully scary things about having a small child.

Parenting means figuring out how to handle things, not living in constant fear. You could also be taking cold meds, exhausted, depressed, etc. 

BarooGirl

I drank while breastfeeding. Granted it was one beer.

Drink after drink didn't sound good at all though.

BarooGirl

ElTrain5 said:

I am so on the fence about this. On one hand, the mom shouldn't be drinking and bf-ing. If I wanted wine, I'd make sure it was enough time before my next feeding or we'd do a bottle and I would pump and dump. On the other hand, is it really the server's business to call the police? I felt like that was a bit extreme.

I feel like there needs to be a PSA on "pumping and dumping". Breast milk supply is just like your blood when it comes to alcohol. After a period of time the alcohol is no longer present in either. There is no benefit to pumping your milk and dumping it. You just need to wait it out. (Although pumping prior to drinking can be helpful if you're missing a feeding) They make test strips for milk if you are ever unsure if everything is out of your system.
Edit: as PP pointed out, some women pump due to engorgement. My post was geared towards those who think their milk supply is "tainted" after consuming alcohol and the need to pump out the "bad" milk or else baby will get it, which is completely unnecessary.

So true. My LC and OB always said the same. The LC even recommended beer for bumping supply, and said to not dump. If you feel fine enough to drive you are fine to BF.

flerlgirl

flerlgirl

Butseriously, it's impossible for me to form an opinion on this without all the info. If the server really wasn't fired for calling the cops, it makes me wonder if she hadn't caused issues in the past. Idk.

Valie18

I want a glass of wine

Luna C

BarooGirl said:

Drink after drink didn't sound good at all though.

I agree it doesn't sound good. It's also coming from someone who was fired and is looking for sympathy and/or her job back. So I'm taking it with a grain of salt until there's more evidence one way or the other.

Even if it does mean 5 drinks ... if they were all during or after she finished bf-ing, then none of it got to the baby and my only concern is that there is someone to drive them home. 

tealowl

wtfisup said:

I was told once that drinking while BFing makes the most sense: the baby is drinking while you drink, thus the booze can't possibly digest fast enough to get into the milk. It makes sense. 

Reading this and this entire thread has made me excited that I'll be able to enjoy some wine and bf after this pup is born.