Preschool

Rdmaggie

I've asked about this before, so I appreciate those who are willing to chime in again. We are going through the transition process from EI to School District, and we now have an IEP written up but still have not nailed down the best placement for DD. We have a few options but I'm still struggling with understanding what will be the best fit. DD will be 3 in December, she was dx with Autism in August, however we have been involved with EI for almost a full a year now. DH and I visited a local ABA based preschool, which in theory I had always felt would be the best fit for DD. While visiting the administrator did allow us in to see the rooms but we weren't able to see any of the therapists working with children. I understand ABA is highly individualized, so perhaps it wouldn't have really given me any idea of how it would look with DD anyway...I don't know, but I didn't leave feeling like I had gained any particular knowledge of the therapists or what a typical day at the preschool looked like. We catalogued the experience and did an observation at the local inclusion preschool. I loved the public preschool but I am concerned that DD will not be successful in that kind of situation. The teacher of the preschool said they do not expect DD to be able to sit and follow instructions immediately, and stated it could take months for her to get it, and thats okay. Their response is that if she doesn't follow instructions or starts to get overwhelmed the aide will take her aside until she can return. Our EI interventionist seems to think that the inclusion (public) preschool is the best environment for DD, her explanation being that DD has many skill sets already but is really lacking in social communication/interaction. My understanding has always been that at DD's age and with her dx that social situations are usually only effective if they are facilitated appropriately...so I guess I"m just confused. When I see all these kiddos sitting on their "letter" carpet, lining up when told, picking up library books etc. I just can't picture DD doing this. Am I selling her short? I don't think the interventionist has any kind of motive for suggesting she go to the inclusion preschool, I do believe she thinks DD can be successful. I just don't know.... DD does have some good pre academic skills, shes potty trained (but needs help getting on a full sized toilet), and she can follow instructions to a point, but she is very self directed. Sometimes she flat out says "no" to things asked of her, sometimes she complies, and other times she simply ignores requests all together. I guess she could be an entirely different kid when it comes to getting directions from a teacher/other adult but she doesn't experience this very often and I have no way of knowing. Any thoughts on what my next move should be?

kcisthebombdotcom

I think you'd be surprised at how young kids do when they adapt to a routine and know what to expect. My dd does a social skills group through ei and it is run similarly to a day at preschool in the sense they follow a routine. Many of the kids have had an autistic dx; others have autistic traits without a dx. I'd say most of the kids, even the ones on spectrum, adjusted to the routine (minus some bad days and with some accomodations) within a few months. If she's higher functioning she may surprise you. For us (developmental pedi think she's either high functioning or will get an ADHD diagnosis within a few years) everyone on her team feels shed be best suited for an inclusion classroom placement. I would advise with her doctors and see what they think is best.

pastalady

I honestly never thought my DD would sit on the mat at story time. We joked if she could do it after 2 years of preschool it would be a success. She has done great! She has an aide and if she gets disruptive she and her aide will go have some quiet time. Our team stressed she needed to be in an inclusive environment. I wasn't sold on the idea but it is working out well. I do give some creed to the idea some kids will do things in school they would never do at home. At school DD will change her shoes herself, hang up her jacket, etc. no luck at home. Things like that. I just spent 2 weeks volunteering in her preschool and I can now say I am so happy we went this way.

Rdmaggie

-auntie- said:

Rdmaggie said:

I've asked about this before, so I appreciate those who are willing to chime in again. We are going through the transition process from EI to School District, and we now have an IEP written up but still have not nailed down the best placement for DD. We have a few options but I'm still struggling with understanding what will be the best fit. 

I think one of the most important things to keep in mind is that more than typical kids, those on spectrum need their educational placement tweaked regularly. I know it can be appealing to go into a traditional looking inclusion preschool and want that. And I know it can be hard to see potential classmates who seem perhaps more impaired than your child. But the thing to remember is that you are making a decision for one year, not her entire career as a student and even then, if it isn't working you could change it.

The IEP, if it's well crafted, should give you some ideas of which placement is more appropriate for her needs now. What are her measurable goals? Who is delivering what services and where? Are the services pushed in or do they require pullouts that would render her a guest in the classroom? 

She qualifed for 100 minutes monthly of Speech, which she will be pulled out for. They are "monitoring" her fine motor skills because they aren't even...like she can put penny's into a bank with zero effort but can't master the tripod grip or effectively squeeze a bottle of glue. Her IEP goals were written in this format: "LO will answer a variety of WH questions and answer correctly 3/4 times with no more than 2 prompts" - except each WH question is a separate goal, my favorite and the one I anticipate being the most challenging "LO will remain seated for a 5 min period with no more than 2 prompts 3/4 sessions" and then there is "LO will appropriately greet classmates upon arrival with either a verbal Hi or wave 3/4 sessions without prompting."

DD will be 3 in December, she was dx with Autism in August, however we have been involved with EI for almost a full a year now. DH and I visited a local ABA based preschool, which in theory I had always felt would be the best fit for DD. While visiting the administrator did allow us in to see the rooms but we weren't able to see any of the therapists working with children. I understand ABA is highly individualized, so perhaps it wouldn't have really given me any idea of how it would look with DD anyway...I don't know, but I didn't leave feeling like I had gained any particular knowledge of the therapists or what a typical day at the preschool looked like. 

It's a violation of the confidentiality of the students' IEPs to allow you to observe one-on-one ABA. Are you able to meet with a BCBA or para from the class to talk about the routine or how the ABA is implemented?--When we met with the administrator she explained that they did circle time upon arrival but after that the kiddos would each go to different rooms for either 1:1 or 1:2 skill work. They switch rooms and teachers every 30 mins, but work on similar tasks with the logic being that they are learning to take the same directions from different people. She explained they would work on facilitating social interaction if that is something we wished to work on, so that was a benefit I saw in the ABA program. She also said they do positive and negative reinforcements so I'm curious as to what that would look like. Perhaps we should meet again now that the IEP has been made so we can address the goals specifically.

How would her IEP goals be served in an ABA setting? What does she need to work on? 

We catalogued the experience and did an observation at the local inclusion preschool. I loved the public preschool but I am concerned that DD will not be successful in that kind of situation. The teacher of the preschool said they do not expect DD to be able to sit and follow instructions immediately, and stated it could take months for her to get it, and thats okay. Their response is that if she doesn't follow instructions or starts to get overwhelmed the aide will take her aside until she can return. 

It sounds like the teacher has done this before and has realistic expectations. What is the composition of the class? Is it a 50-50 inclusion class with typical peer models or is it a random collection of kids with IEPs for different needs?----It is not 50/50 originally I was told 13 with 9 on IEPs but the current class size is 9 with 5 on IEPS. Some children are typical kiddos who pay tuition to go and the rest are IEP students. I have to say when I viewed the class it was somewhat difficult to pick out the kids on IEPs which honestly made me a bit nervous, since I see DD as being more impaired than what I saw in that setting. I don't really know how to put it into words...she has some nice skills, and more skills than some of the kiddos there but she still seems to me as if she has a greater deal of impairment than what I saw in our hour and a half of observation. 

A traditional looking preschool with NT peers is compelling, but depending on where she is it might not be what she needs this year. If you DD is being sherpa'd by a para, that creates a barrier between her and peers. IME, sometimes the NT kids in the integrated classes bond with each other leaving the kids on spectrum paired with each other which doesn't really give them the benefit of peer models. Plus, if the child doesn't have some social skills training, she might not be in a place where she can make use of such classmates to practice emerging skills.

That said, DS didn't have a dx and did two years of typical coop preschool without any problems to speak of.----DD has so little interaction with other children. She really has no interest in them, thats why I don't even know if the "modeling" will make a difference. She only recently started to enjoy our EI provider and want to interact with her and its been almost exactly a year. She seems so anxious, we observed the TEACCH program today and the stark difference I see in her and the other children their and in the inclusion preschool is how serious and anxious she is around other people, adults or children. I thought it was an "Autism thing" but I have yet to see another child with as much anxiety as she displays.

Our EI interventionist seems to think that the inclusion (public) preschool is the best environment for DD, her explanation being that DD has many skill sets already but is really lacking in social communication/interaction. My understanding has always been that at DD's age and with her dx that social situations are usually only effective if they are facilitated appropriately...so I guess I"m just confused. When I see all these kiddos sitting on their "letter" carpet, lining up when told, picking up library books etc. I just can't picture DD doing this. Am I selling her short? 

Maybe you are selling her short. Maybe your gut is spot on and she'll really struggle.

It's very encouraging that she's potty trained, that suggests her adaptive skills are more on track than most kids with ASD. She may be better served by raising the bar a bit higher than you're confident she can handle. Not knowing my son had AS until he was almost 7 meant I expected him to learn and be more like the norms of his peer group. He didn't always hit the mark when they did, but he usually came around to it. YMMV, but for us the ASD is more like a delay so far, if I "age adjust" for the 1/3 Aspergers social and emotional immaturity, he's still learning and growing even at 20 who kind of acts like a 16 year old.-----I think the 1/3 delay could be accurate for her as well, but shes so young, I really don't know. When I look at her compared to NT kids shes very different, but when I looked at her compared to the children I saw today in the TEACCH program today I guess I can see why her DP and EI provider originally doubted Autism. She isn't necessarily effected to the degree the kiddos I saw today were but she is absolutely effected. KWIM??

I don't think the interventionist has any kind of motive for suggesting she go to the inclusion preschool, I do believe she thinks DD can be successful. 

She has a powerful motive- professional pride. If she can take a kid who has a dx so young and bridge them to a inclusion setting by age three, she looks pretty terrific.-------very true.

I just don't know.... DD does have some good pre academic skills, shes potty trained (but needs help getting on a full sized toilet), and she can follow instructions to a point, but she is very self directed. Sometimes she flat out says "no" to things asked of her, sometimes she complies, and other times she simply ignores requests all together. I guess she could be an entirely different kid when it comes to getting directions from a teacher/other adult but she doesn't experience this very often and I have no way of knowing. Any thoughts on what my next move should be?

You aren't really going to know, it's a leap of faith. Make a best guess and see how it plays out. If it's a disaster, you can always reopen the IEP and fix what isn't working. 

I know kids who started out in ABA classrooms who had all kinds of services and interventions thrown at them who bridged to mainstream at some point in elementary who are in college doing well. I know kids whose presentations were so subtle, they weren't identified until middle school who ended up in the mainstream and AP classes in high school. I also know kids who did great in elementary, who struggled academically once abstract reasoning and higher order thinking became the order of the day and others who developed comorbids at puberty who didn't enjoy good outcomes. In my own house, DS did really well in preschool, struggled mightily in early elementary, did OK in secondary and is on the Deans List in college.-----Thank you as always for your in depth response! I apologize for my horrible formatting via ipad. As I mentioned earlier we did look at the local TEACCH program today. I loved the structure, the class size of 5 with 3 teachers, and the activities they do which are more hands on and less "sit and listen". There aren't many opportunities for social experience or taking turns there. I really wish there was some mixture of the two options...

Rdmaggie

Well a lot of good that did me...my responses showed up in blue too!! BAH Auntie - If you can manage to weed through that awful mess I made of a reply...I did reply . Thank you to others who responded as well. I still feel torn. There is one more ABA center located in our proximity (within 30 miles of us)...that we want to visit before making a final decision. I try not to let location play a part in our decision making process either. Both ABA centers are over 20 miles away, TEACCH program is 30 miles away, inclusion preschool is half a block and provides bussing, so while that would be ideal location wise we try not to let that weigh in too much. One small draw back I had in regards to the first ABA center we visited was that it just opened in July and is still going through some admitted growing pains. The administrator said she opened it to better serve the clients she had as she and her team had been doing in home/daycare/school setting therapy. They could be excellent therapists, but of course the "newness" just makes me nervous...as always. The other center is a "Trumpet" center, and is better established, but is the one we have yet to visit yet.