Another discussion about gifts/holidays

SidraJedi

So DH and I are real particular about stuff. We are both uber minimalist and we prefer the things we have to be few and fine. My options for DD's Christmas and birthday gifts from family are to tell them "we want x" x= a specific item or "we don't want gifts, we'll take cash to get her things as she needs them (or whatever)" which is a legit option as DH's family is in the habit of giving cash for all gifts and all occasions anyway And my family wouldn't take offense to that necessarily. Of course (as I know from past experience and from my shower where only 2-3 people used the registry/listened to our requests) we will get some items that will unfortunately go to goodwill or back to the store for credit.
I'm just curious about what you gals are feeling about gifts and what to say to family if they ask or If they don't and how you plan to handle the holiday season and birthdays.

Rosebean

If someone asked me, I would just tell them that we need clothes for his next size up or bigger... But I have to say, I was talking to a girlfriend about the holidays and she has a brilliant idea for what her kids get. They all get "something you want, need, wear and read" what a brilliant idea. Simple, plentiful and everybody wins. But when it comes to talking to family, I would only really tell them what we woul like DS to get if they asked for more details.

ericalee27

I only give gift ideas if asked and I try to keep it fairly general (i.e. musical instruments, art supplies, etc.) instead of "here's a link to exactly what you should get him."  

wifeofadam

Good luck with this!  DH and I told family before we started having kids how we felt about the plastic junk - not just because the clutter annoys us, but because we have strong feelings about the role it plays it the environment, our faith, and the development of our children. 

It made absolutely no difference!  Grandparents and extended family members still buy the cheap plastic stuff.  I'm able to sometimes exchange it after Christmas for things like books, but most of the time the aunts and uncles or great grandparents want to open the stuff from the packaging so they can watch the kids play with it. 

What we do now is rotate toys.  We've told everyone that we only have a certain amount of space designated for storage, so whenever they buy something new, it means that something old is leaving the house.  We drop the old stuff off at Goodwill.  You would think the thought of the toys they bought last Christmas with their hard-earned money being donated would upset them and make them think about buying more junk in the future, but no....

I've been able to get my parents on board and now they only buy the kids educational toys and books.  When my mom really wanted to buy my kids a play kitchen, I sent her a link to a wooden one on Etsy made from sustainable materials and without any toxic finishes.  She wants to buy DD a doll house this year so I plan to do the same thing - send a link to a wooden one that we would prefer her to have.  But you will be hard-pressed to get some people to quit buying the kids the stupid junky toys.

wifeofadam

I should add that every year my grandma and my aunts send me an email asking for ideas for the kids.  Every year I write a list of books that we need, a few videos that we've been wanting to purchase, one toy idea, and their clothing sizes, as well as whatever they are into at that time of the year - dinosaurs, bugs, etc.

And every year when we go to open gifts, not a single thing from the list is there.  This year I'm not even going to waste my time writing up the list and just tell them to do whatever they want.

Puck1182

Like I said in the birthday registry post, I want to put together an Amazon wish list for DD, which would mostly be for our own reference, but I'd also be willing to refer close family to it if they specifically ask us for ideas.

Otherwise I'll just tell them clothes or books, and if they must buy toys, limit it to only one, preferably one that doesn't require batteries. And I have no qualms about doing the same thing +adamwife+ does and donating old stuff to charity as DD gets new stuff. It's not like anyone can really expect us to keep every single toy DD ever gets!

Dannysmama

Like PPs, our intent is to have less, since DS's favorite toys of late are DH's ears, a set of measuring spoons, and Sophie the Giraffe.  We've told family that DS is going to have more fun with the boxes and wrapping paper than the gifts themselves, but we accidentally crushed my MIL when we were talking about how we may just wrap a box of kleenex for DS because he got such a kick out of pulling the tissues out.  My MIL had gone to NY and found every parent's worst nightmare gift - a light up, noise making, clunky plastic globe at the MOMA and she was just thrilled about giving it to DS.  As we were talking about how silly gifts are for babies, she got this sad look and went inside and got the globe, explaining that she was saving it for Christmas and was so excited to see him play with it, but figured she'd give it to him now since we didn't want Christmas presents for him.  It was such a sad, unexpected moment, since she was so clearly excited about this.  We asked her to wrap it up and give it to him again at Christmas, fibbing a bit saying it was too developmentally advanced for him now anyway.    

So, my point is that I truly hadn't realized that for some of our family, its not the gift but the act of giving it.  My MIL is a very generous person who gives junky little gifts as a way to show she cares.  We'll try to explain that for DS's first Christmas and birthday, we'd prefer books or wooden toys, but DS is lucky enough to have 4 grandparents who want to spoil him, and though he may not remember the clunky globe, my MIL will.  Plus, FWIW, "toys break", and it is an easy way to explain why that eyesore of toy is no longer taking up space!  

meechellebelle

I agree with PP saying its more about giving gifts. My mom loves buying stuff for our boys and whether or not its what I want, the boys love it and my mom enjoys watching them play with something she bought them.
And my boys love the "stupid junky toys" so our house is filled with that. If they're happy then so am I

Abca13

Our families have been very generous with clothes and toys for little one so for holidays and birthdays we've already started spreading the word that we'd prefer savings bonds for her college education or books.  We're assuming that people are still going to get her typical, plastic, nonsense toys so we're also stealing a page out of my aunt's book and rationing out her gifts throughout the year.  When she gets bored with an old toy or (when she gets older) deserves a treat or reward from something, she'll get one of those presents.  Obviously this plan doesn't work for very age-specific toys but we're going to do the best we can. My house already looks like a technicolor, plastic landfill so I'm hoping this approach will work to keep the chaos under control.   :P

wifeofadam

PeanutR1 said:

I have to be honest, I'm really turned off by your post completely. A gift is to be determined by the giver, and it should be received gracefully. You come off as dreadfully ungrateful, and frankly if I was your family, I wouldn't give you S*it from here on out.

I'm going to completely disagree. 

Of course, a gift is to be determined by the giver, however, a gift should also take into account the morals and values of the person being gifted. 

For example, I wouldn't give a crucifix to my Jewish friend.  I wouldn't give a package of beef jerky to my vegetarian sister.  I wouldn't give pornography to my totally conservative mother.  And I wouldn't give a cheap plastic toy with flashing lights and commercialized characters to a friend or family member's child whose parent I know tries to live a sustainable, eco-friendly, or non-commercialized lifestyle.  To do so knowingly is rude and disrespectful and totally negates the thoughtfulness of said gift.  You're expecting a person to be gracious when their wishes are being disrespected?  We're talking about a person's lifestyle that family members and friends are completely aware of.

For some people, the creation, use and disposal of cheap plastic toys is a moral issue.  It is tied to environmental concerns, family lifestyle, faith, and/or health views.  Knowing that someone has moral objections to a certain type of gift and completely ignoring those objections and giving it anyways is totally rude IMO.  And letting a gift giver know about these types of things before the gift-giving season is no different than making sure the person who is bringing your family a meal after you have a baby knows that you are a vegetarian and won't eat a pot roast or letting people know that you don't celebrate a religious holiday or something. 

With that said, if you tell people that you prefer not to fill your home with these things and they continue to do it, the gracious thing to do is just accept the gift.  Then when they leave you can donate it or do whatever you have to do to get it out of the house. 

But I think just as it is with any other parenting decision you make, it is important to make your decisions clear to the people around you who have influence on your children.  This is just another one of those value issues like that for some people.  If you don't mind plastic junky toys or commercialized toys or your children having too many toys, than obviously you're not going to understand how important and frustrating this issue is for the people who do mind it.  It's like telling family not to feed your child junk and them completely disregarding your wishes and offering it to them every time they see them.  Rude.

SidraJedi

PeanutR1 said:

I have to be honest, I'm really turned off by your post completely. A gift is to be determined by the giver, and it should be received gracefully. You come off as dreadfully ungrateful, and frankly if I was your family, I wouldn't give you S*it from here on out.

Interesting perspective.
I've never had that reaction from anyone in my family or DH's on previous occasions where we have requested no gifts or just money. I don't think that this situation will be any different. Sorry I offended you. Our family circle seems to be different than yours.

SidraJedi

@+adamwife+ once again I am humbled by your ability to articulate on a public forum.
When I went to write out my response to @peanutr1 I typed and deleted many first attempts to explain myself before finally giving up and going with my short response above.
I think I lack patience and next time I am going to try to take it slow and think about what I would like to say for a while before replying. It's just so hard sometimes to be caught off guard like that for me. And then I don't want to say something else to the person I just unknowingly offended.
I guess what I am trying to say is thank you for your thoughtful response
And @peanutr1 thank you too. Your response allowed for another and the chain if events was enlightening.

wifeofadam

Thanks, Sidra.  I've just received the same criticism from people before and it bothers me.  And I also think that in most families, as you said, there ARE discussions about what types of gifts you want for your kids.  Every year before Christmas our parents and brothers/sisters ask us what the kids want or need and so it gives us the opportunity to express how we are trying to limit certain types of toys or how we don't want to expose them to certain things.  I don't think that's rude - I think it's how most families operate.  It would be different, I guess, if out of the blue you are just sending an email to family saying "Don't buy my kid this stuff!"  But I have a feeling most of these kinds of conversations evolve organically and don't come across as ungracious as they may sound in an internet forum.

kleigh926

On my mom's side of the family, we always create lists for Christmas. As far as I know, everyone pretty much sticks to the lists so that they know the recipient will appreciate the gifts. I've already started a list for DD to pass around on that side of the family.

I think I'll mention to DH's parents and grandparents that I have a list if they'd like to see it, but if not, that's okay too. In regards to what @PeanutR1 said, I do think it's a little rude to request specific gifts if you haven't been asked. Like, I wouldn't just go up to MIL and say, "Here's DD's Christmas list, we'd like anything on here or cash instead."

Now, if we lived a certain lifestyle that family members knew about, and they knew that we wouldn't want certain kinds of gifts and ignored that and bought those things anyway, I also think that's rude. So I can see both sides of the situation here. Ultimately, I think it might be best to just keep quiet (unless you're asked for a list, of course) and if you get something you don't like, donate it. Or you could gently "remind" your family members that you'd prefer no battery-operated, plastic toys. Lightheartedly say something like, "All those noises and lights would drive me nuts, so we don't need any of that stuff!" I don't think I'd go any farther than that though.

wifeofadam

peanut - ITA.  I'm not saying people should be dictating what gifts should be given, just that I don't think there is anything wrong with giving ideas and pointing people in the direction of the things that would be appreciated.  And I also don't think this is information I would ever give out unsolicited, just in response to being asked what I would appreciate or what my kids need for a holiday.  I have just found that no one ever listens - no one really cares to hear what you really want or would appreciate for your kids, at least not IME.  They always ask just to ask and then give whatever they want anyways.

DublinMama

We haven't been asked yet. If we do, I would request warm jammies and some clothes. I would also share what we have purchased for DS, so he doesn't get duplicates. At this juncture, we don't have strong feelings about babies' toys. If DS likes it, I am comfortable letting him play with it, whether it's wooden, plastic, or otherwise. So long as it's safe for him.

The one thing I do have somewhat petty feelings about is one-upping gifts. I would prefer not to give my son a new toy or book, just to go to Grandma's and find a pony there (she would never buy a pony, per se, but MIL does buy extravagant things). As he gets older and requests certain things that he really wants, I will make it somewhat clear to grandparents that that gift should come from his parents. Unless it's a pony...

Drea926

I'm also not picky about gifts - as long as it's safe and appropriate! I'll offer suggestions if anyone asks but I'd probably be general. I'm happy with whatever we receive! 

jbatch

I will give thoughts on what we need but I will appreciate whatever she is given. I do think it is rude to complain about gifts someone gives you..

Meggiemuggins

I'm going to request that DS not receive anything that require batteries. My niece, who lives downstairs from us, has every.single.noisemaking toy known to man and I can hear it through the floors and it drives me bonkers.  I expect that some people, like my brother, will ignore that request, but I'm hoping that if I state the request it will at least make people think twice.

SidraJedi

I just realized what I didn't clarify in my OP that I would prefer NOT to recieve anything. I've tried to explain this to my family and they don't get it except my grandpa who always takes me out to dinner. I prefer to spend time with family as there is nothing that I want except quality time with them. They, however, generally don't spend quality time with me and send along gifts that I often do not use.
However, I do appreciate a well thought out gift and I am always polite when someone offers something to me that they thought I might like even if I don't.
With DH's family they prefer to give cash in a card. Sometimes they ask if there is something that you want and they need specifics. Even then sometimes they forgo shopping for us and just give cash.
Usually on birthdays and holidays we end up with gifts that miss the mark from my family and cash from his.
Now here's DD. I was mostly curious about how everyone else handles a similar situation to mine. But it seems that most of you are in a totally different situation where friends and family are not like mine when it comes to gifts.
Anyhow, my attitude towards gifts may still offend some but I'm not gift grabby b/c I really don't want anything. It's just if someone insists on gifting something to me I would like it to be something I can use an appreciate and remember the giver fondly when I look at it not something I am going to hold onto because I feel guilty about not apreciating or that I take to goodwill.

musicalmama5

OP, I totally get your post. I've already had a conversation with SIL about this subject. She has older kids (12 and 10), and she's at the point where she's DONE with toys. And like adamwife said, the conversation occurred organically, and wasn't awkward or grabby on either of our ends. We both determined that we don't want too many toys this Christmas. 

My general line when someone asks what to get DS is "there's never too many books!". I much prefer for him to have a ridiculous library than a ridiculous toybox/toyroom. We have a small apartment, and frankly that much brightly colored plastic irks my nerves. :P 

SidraJedi

Thanks @musicalmama5! This whole post has made me think really hard about the nature of giving and receiving gifts as an extension of hospitality and the protocol in our society for gifting and about why people feel the need to give gifts just for the sake of giving gifts and why I have strong feelings towards gifts and receiving them. It's been intense for me since @PeanutR1's post. I wasn't expecting that and had to consider a lot.
My family is pretty dysfunctional. DH's family is pretty normal I guess if a little different/quirky. I realized that gift-giving in my family is more about status, a need to be needed and verification, hence my negative attitude towards unwanted gifts. DH's family takes the "fun" out of giving gifts by gifting cash or by outright asking what you want specifically but at least it is pain free and practical. Sure I have friends that have exchanged gifts withe on occasion but there was never an experience to teach me anything different about the gift giving process.
I know that I am fairly guarded IRL so I guess I let my guard down enough here to allow for a candid discussion and I had to either come to a realization or remain in denial.
I can't stop people from buying useless nonsense that ends up floating in our oceans and outliving cockroaches that some poor child has to make so that Americans will find it affordable. But I can stop taking it personally and just relax.

DublinMama

SidraJedi said:

Thanks @musicalmama5! This whole post has made me think really hard about the nature of giving and receiving gifts as an extension of hospitality and the protocol in our society for gifting and about why people feel the need to give gifts just for the sake of giving gifts and why I have strong feelings towards gifts and receiving them. It's been intense for me since @PeanutR1's post. I wasn't expecting that and had to consider a lot. My family is pretty dysfunctional. DH's family is pretty normal I guess if a little different/quirky. I realized that gift-giving in my family is more about status, a need to be needed and verification, hence my negative attitude towards unwanted gifts. DH's family takes the "fun" out of giving gifts by gifting cash or by outright asking what you want specifically but at least it is pain free and practical. Sure I have friends that have exchanged gifts withe on occasion but there was never an experience to teach me anything different about the gift giving process. I know that I am fairly guarded IRL so I guess I let my guard down enough here to allow for a candid discussion and I had to either come to a realization or remain in denial. I can't stop people from buying useless nonsense that ends up floating in our oceans and outliving cockroaches that some poor child has to make so that Americans will find it affordable. But I can stop taking it personally and just relax.

Hmmm. I have bought plastic and light up toys for my son. Not because I am cheap or support child labor or don't care about environmental integrity. Because I think he'd like them. I certainly advocate parental discretion when choosing or creating your child's play experiences. But that seems like a broad brush to paint with in regards to what it implies about those of us who might choose to buy something from Fisher Price, and also the manufacturers of said toys.

wifeofadam

Dublin - I think that just as Sidra believed she was overthinking what receiving these things meant, you may be overthinking what her beliefs about these things means to you. 

You could apply other people's beliefs to anything you do and choose to be offended, as if the person is implying there is something wrong with your choice.  If you choose to formula feed and another mother is talking about the reasons she chose to breastfeed, you could assume she is making implications about you.  If you choose to use disposable diapers and another mother chooses to CD because she thinks it is better for the environment, you could assume that in her choice there is an implication about yours.  That's life.  I find that the only time I really feel judged by another person's choices is when I feel guilt because there is truth to what they are saying.

I don't think Sidra is talking about you, unless when you're buying those things for your son, you know the cost and don't really care at all.  I don't think most people think about those things when they buy them, just as you said, so I'm not sure her statement says anything about those people.  But if the box of the toy said "Made in China by a 14-year-old girl forced to work a 12 hour day without breaks and with nothing but a surgical mask to protect her from the fumes, for less money than you spent on your coffee this morning" and you still don't think twice about buying it for your own 14-year-old to enjoy, or if you're the manufacturer that's turning a blind eye for profit, that's a whole different story...

wifeofadam

Sidra - How ironic!  As soon as I got done typing that last response, my mother called me.  She always stuffs our Advent calendar with goodies for the kids and was calling to ask me what to do this year.  She usually goes to the Dollar store and fills it with plastic junk that ends up lost, broken or in the trash within a week and EVERY year I ask her not to do that again, please.  So when she just called she was asking for ideas - I said things for school would be great and useful - fun erasers for their pencils, manipulatives for lessons, etc.  When she said they didn't have anything like that in the store she was in, she told me that she'll just get them some toys and if they end up junked, it doesn't bother her.  I had to remind her, "But it bothers me!" 

So this is exactly what we're talking about.  Someone buying you a gift is one thing.  Someone asking you for your input on the gift and then when you give it, completely ignoring it because they want to do what they want to do anyways.......that's the problem.

I wish I could just not care and be happy that my kids would have the fun junky stuff to play with for a few days before it gets thrown away, but in the season of Advent when there is a particular message I am trying to get across to my kids, the idea of temporary, disposable pleasure at the cost of other people and animals' lives, sort of defeats the purpose.  Sure, the kids don't understand it yet, but they will one day (if I teach them right), and I'm going to look like a huge hypocrite...

I would rather she didn't do anything for the calendar at all.  A cute note each day of Advent for the kids telling them how much she loves them would mean so much more than junk toys, not only to the kids, but to me too!

musicalmama5

+adamwife+ said:

Dublin - I think that just as Sidra believed she was overthinking what receiving these things meant, you may be overthinking what her beliefs about these things means to you. 

You could apply other people's beliefs to anything you do and choose to be offended, as if the person is implying there is something wrong with your choice.  If you choose to formula feed and another mother is talking about the reasons she chose to breastfeed, you could assume she is making implications about you.  If you choose to use disposable diapers and another mother chooses to CD because she thinks it is better for the environment, you could assume that in her choice there is an implication about yours.  That's life.  I find that the only time I really feel judged by another person's choices is when I feel guilt because there is truth to what they are saying.

I don't think Sidra is talking about you, unless when you're buying those things for your son, you know the cost and don't really care at all.  I don't think most people think about those things when they buy them, just as you said, so I'm not sure her statement says anything about those people.  But if the box of the toy said "Made in China by a 14-year-old girl forced to work a 12 hour day without breaks and with nothing but a surgical mask to protect her from the fumes, for less money than you spent on your coffee this morning" and you still don't think twice about buying it for your own 14-year-old to enjoy, or if you're the manufacturer that's turning a blind eye for profit, that's a whole different story...

So true!

DublinMama

+adamwife+ said:

Dublin - I think that just as Sidra believed she was overthinking what receiving these things meant, you may be overthinking what her beliefs about these things means to you. 

You could apply other people's beliefs to anything you do and choose to be offended, as if the person is implying there is something wrong with your choice.  If you choose to formula feed and another mother is talking about the reasons she chose to breastfeed, you could assume she is making implications about you.  If you choose to use disposable diapers and another mother chooses to CD because she thinks it is better for the environment, you could assume that in her choice there is an implication about yours.  That's life.  I find that the only time I really feel judged by another person's choices is when I feel guilt because there is truth to what they are saying.

I don't think Sidra is talking about you, unless when you're buying those things for your son, you know the cost and don't really care at all.  I don't think most people think about those things when they buy them, just as you said, so I'm not sure her statement says anything about those people.  But if the box of the toy said "Made in China by a 14-year-old girl forced to work a 12 hour day without breaks and with nothing but a surgical mask to protect her from the fumes, for less money than you spent on your coffee this morning" and you still don't think twice about buying it for your own 14-year-old to enjoy, or if you're the manufacturer that's turning a blind eye for profit, that's a whole different story...

Let me clarify a few things, please. 1.Perhaps you might feel guilty when you sense the underlying truth in something. But FWIW, I feel zero guilt for buying my son anything that is plastic, battery operated, or anything of that nature. 2. I was not offended, nor do I think anything was directed at me, personally. I think there are factual inaccuracies to saying that because a toy is plastic or synthetic in some way, it was, or most likely was made by a sweat shop of children. 3. I disagree that the statement made about those toys does not have a grain of judgement in it, whether I took towards myself or not.

Having said that, I'm ok with however I'm viewed as a result "defending" PlaySkool, or what I've written in this post and ones prior. We don't all have to be like minded in our choice of toys or experiences with our children, and I understand that.

wifeofadam

FWIW, I wasn't saying that you feel guilt.  I was speaking of my experiences and whenever I feel implicated, as you mentioned, by others' opinions. 

Also,  I have bought plastic, battery-operated toys before for my children.  Just wanted to put that on record

kleigh926

Adamwife, I get what you're saying about Sidra's reply, and I'm sure she didn't mean that "plastic toys floating in the oceans" statement personally towards anyone.... but it certainly sounded a bit judgemental to me. It turned me off, and yes, maybe even offended me a little bit. And I'm not even a big fan of battery-operated toys myself.

red daisy

We struggle with this too.  I don't really mind plastic toys but my husbands family tends to go apeshit with gifts and we end up with so many things.  For example, we just went to them for my sons birthday.  Its 350 miles away and our normal vehicle was in the shop so we had our itty bitty car which was packed to the gills with just us and our bags.  I begged them to just get him clothes because frankly, we need clothes for him and he has a million toys already.  They did get him clothes, but also a ton of toys.  And just llike someone said above, everything had to be opened up immediately so I can't even take any of it back.  I really wish I had the balls to just tell them to give me the cash so I can put it in his education fund.  At the end of the day, I feel bad that they spend money they really don't have on stuff that we don't need and frankly, wont use.  Luckily, we don't see them for many holidays due to the distance and they usually end up just sending gift cards.   

SidraJedi

@dublinmama you are right. I should have made myself more clear. My statement was meant to insinuate that things made of plastic, their ultimate fate, and things made in sweatshops are beyond my control but the attitude with which I receive gifts that may have come from one or more of those places is within my control. I could have written it out just like that but I was having a discussion with DH at the time and hit "post reply" a little too hastily.

@+adamwife+ the notes from your mom to your kids sounds like a great idea! I would have love to recieve that from my grandma when we had an advent calender! Unfortunately ours was filled with candy! ;P I hope she decides to go with your note idea. It is very hard not to over analyze every aspect of our lives and how it affects our children and I guess this is just another situation I will have to give up to Him. In the short span of time spent discussing this stuff here with you and everyone else I have learned a lot though so it wasn't for nothing.

SidraJedi

+adamwife+ said:

Also,  I have bought plastic, battery-operated toys before for my children.  Just wanted to put that on record

I bought Alva diapers from CHINA, cheap as all get out and smelling like a chem lab until prepped. No judgement here.
There were many factors in my mind when I wrote that post and the guilt I feel from not getting any use out of a plastic chair made in china that I will never use, can't take back and is still sitting in my driveway unopened was one of those factors.
I did make a blanket statement and didn't take the time to edit for clarity before I posted.
@ red daisy ITA I was also considering how my mom lives off of my grandfather and little sister's financial support and still buys me and DD things that we do not want/use and that it makes me feel horrible to recieve things from her especially things that I have no use for.
Again, I should have typed more carefully.
I realize now that where friends and family get their money and how they choose to spend it is also beyond my control.

artroyer

jersey1402 said:

If people ask you what you would like then feel free to give them ideas, But asking for money is tacky.

What ever happened to being polite and just saying thank you. So what if it's plastic and ends of broken, if it gives ds just one smile then I'm happy.

I completely agree with this. I've gotten my fair share of crap gifts or gifts that I simply don't like. I always just smile and say thanks!

Karla CS

artroyer said:

If people ask you what you would like then feel free to give them ideas, But asking for money is tacky. What ever happened to being polite and just saying thank you. So what if it's plastic and ends of broken, if it gives ds just one smile then I'm happy.

I completely agree with this. I've gotten my fair share of crap gifts or gifts that I simply don't like. I always just smile and say thanks!

Graciousness in accepting gifts - wanted or not - is something that is apparently lacking lately. While I understand the concept of not wanting something in your home, or that someone may feel that buying something plastic for a home that prefers wood is 'rude', I think that the inability to see the goodwill behind the gift is astounding. In my world, that person wouldn't be getting many gifts. Or many phone calls.

meechellebelle

PeanutR1 said:

I have to be honest, I'm really turned off by your post completely. A gift is to be determined by the giver, and it should be received gracefully. You come off as dreadfully ungrateful, and frankly if I was your family, I wouldn't give you S*it from here on out.

THIS. THIS. THIS.

And are we really comparing giving a vegetarian meat to someone giving a plastic toy to someone who doesn't like it?

I just.... I can't.

musicalmama5

meechellebelle said:

I have to be honest, I'm really turned off by your post completely. A gift is to be determined by the giver, and it should be received gracefully. You come off as dreadfully ungrateful, and frankly if I was your family, I wouldn't give you S*it from here on out.

THIS. THIS. THIS. And are we really comparing giving a vegetarian meat to someone giving a plastic toy to someone who doesn't like it? I just.... I can't.

The OP was talking about when they ask, what do you say. If someone asks what you want and then doesn't honor your requests, that's annoying.

Plus, I think adamwife and others' aversions to plastic toys goes beyond "not liking" them. For a lot of eco-minded people, it really is a moral issue, just how vegetarianism is for vegetarians. The analogy is sound IMO.

wifeofadam

meechellebelle said:

I have to be honest, I'm really turned off by your post completely. A gift is to be determined by the giver, and it should be received gracefully. You come off as dreadfully ungrateful, and frankly if I was your family, I wouldn't give you S*it from here on out.

THIS. THIS. THIS. And are we really comparing giving a vegetarian meat to someone giving a plastic toy to someone who doesn't like it? I just.... I can't.

Yes, we are.  I know some pretty tree-hugging hippies.  They don't even use toilet paper because it's bad for the environment.  They use cloth wipes.  And they even buy wooden toothbrushes and razors to avoid the plastic.  To give their child a plastic toy would be completely disrespectful and a slap in their face, just like giving my athiest sister a Bible or my vegetarian sister some bacon. 

I think the main problem in this post is that people don't understand how big of a role environmentalism plays in other people's lives.  I'm not saying it is like that for me - but for others it is just as important as their religion.  They weigh every decision they make from the clothes they buy to the food they eat, determining whether or not it is good for the earth.

And once again, that's a very small part of this conversation.  There are others who are bothered by the social justice aspect of the gifts - the slave labor.  Of course those people aren't going to be happy that their son got five minutes of smiling from a toy that broke when all they see is a piece of junk that is part of the slave trade. 

I think this conversation spiraled into something it wasn't originally about, but it relates.  It isn't as simple as - just be happy with the gift and throw it away when it breaks.  The person with the moral objection to the toy isn't going to be happy about the waste.  And I think people are failing to see that because to THEM it isn't a big deal.  The whole point is that giving a gift shouldn't be simply about buying what you want to buy, but you should always take into consideration the lifestyle, values, and wants of the person you are giving it to.

wifeofadam

Also, I think a lot of you are misunderstanding the way this would play out in a real world scenario.  As mentioned before, these conversations evolve organically in real life.  It happens when someone asks what your child needs or wants for Christmas.  I doubt most people make demands.  And I also doubt that most people would say, "This is plastic.  I don't want it!"  when they open the gift at Christmas.  They will graciously accept it and then do with it what they want after Christmas.  I highly doubt anyone here would be rude to the gift-giver's face.  People are speaking here with candor because it's an internet forum, but we all know no one would really say these things to gift-giving family members IRL.  Come on, now...

Karla CS

+adamwife+ said:

meechellebelle said:

I have to be honest, I'm really turned off by your post completely. A gift is to be determined by the giver, and it should be received gracefully. You come off as dreadfully ungrateful, and frankly if I was your family, I wouldn't give you S*it from here on out.

THIS. THIS. THIS. And are we really comparing giving a vegetarian meat to someone giving a plastic toy to someone who doesn't like it? I just.... I can't.

Yes, we are.  I know some pretty tree-hugging hippies.  They don't even use toilet paper because it's bad for the environment.  They use cloth wipes.  And they even buy wooden toothbrushes and razors to avoid the plastic.  To give their child a plastic toy would be completely disrespectful and a slap in their face, just like giving my athiest sister a Bible or my vegetarian sister some bacon. 

I think the main problem in this post is that people don't understand how big of a role environmentalism plays in other people's lives.  I'm not saying it is like that for me - but for others it is just as important as their religion.  They weigh every decision they make from the clothes they buy to the food they eat, determining whether or not it is good for the earth.

And once again, that's a very small part of this conversation.  There are others who are bothered by the social justice aspect of the gifts - the slave labor.  Of course those people aren't going to be happy that their son got five minutes of smiling from a toy that broke when all they see is a piece of junk that is part of the slave trade. 

I think this conversation spiraled into something it wasn't originally about, but it relates.  It isn't as simple as - just be happy with the gift and throw it away when it breaks.  The person with the moral objection to the toy isn't going to be happy about the waste.  And I think people are failing to see that because to THEM it isn't a big deal.  The whole point is that giving a gift shouldn't be simply about buying what you want to buy, but you should always take into consideration the lifestyle, values, and wants of the person you are giving it to.

Wow. Considering your statement inferring that people's responses were getting ridiculous, I actually find this to be pretty ludicrous. I do hope you grow all your own food (using no less that fair trade sourced seeds) and make all of your own clothes and use home spun woolen tampons because I'm pretty sure by your logic, ANYTHING made with synthetic or processed materials uses slave labor.

Maybe those same people are pro giving plastic gifts because to give some a wooden gift requires a tree to be killed and they are vehemently against the killing off of poor innocent trees.

MBush4

+adamwife+ said:

Also, I think a lot of you are misunderstanding the way this would play out in a real world scenario.  As mentioned before, these conversations evolve organically in real life.  It happens when someone asks what your child needs or wants for Christmas.  I doubt most people make demands.  And I also doubt that most people would say, "This is plastic.  I don't want it!"  when they open the gift at Christmas.  They will graciously accept it and then do with it what they want after Christmas.  I highly doubt anyone here would be rude to the gift-giver's face.  People are speaking here with candor because it's an internet forum, but we all know no one would really say these things to gift-giving family members IRL.  Come on, now...

I understand that some people don't want plastic toys for a myriad reasons. That's completely understandable. And when people ask for gift ideas for kids, I think it's fine to give ideas. But sometimes people can't afford a nice, fair trade, eco-friendly toy off of Etsy.  I think we digress to a teenaged level of ingratitude when we say things like, "I'd rather they not give anything." I don't know many people who give something with a malicious intention or to tick parents off (okay, maybe noisy toys without an off switch, but that's something completely different). Most times they are genuinely thinking, "What would this child enjoy?"  If you complain about someone giving the wrong gift enough your child is going to pick up on it and they will act the same way (whether or not you teach them to) more likely than not IN FRONT of that person. What you're teaching your child when they receive "the wrong type of gift" and give it away, toss it, or whatnot, is ingratitude. To me, that is a far greater tragedy than receiving a cheap plastic toy. Is it a horrible thing that child labor is used so frequently today? Absolutely. So for myself, I make sure the things I buy do not use it (or at least I try my best to make sure). Do I intentionally buy things that I know are bad for the environment? Nope. But I have no right to impose my expectations on others who are gift giving out of the goodness of their hearts.

And of course we speak with more candor online than we would IRL. Otherwise I don't think you'd have as many faithful groupies as you do here Adamwife. I don't think anyone would be able to get away with some of the stuff you say. You are one of the most fakely-humble, self-righteous sanctimommies I've come across. Everyone makes the choices that are best for their family. So what if it's not what you would do? No mother needs to have their choices, ideas, or whatnot ridiculed like you have done. For someone who claims to follow Jesus Christ, you do a horrible job showing it other than to claim it online.

Puck1182

Karla CS said:

+adamwife+ said:

meechellebelle said:

PeanutR1 said:

I have to be honest, I'm really turned off by your post completely. A gift is to be determined by the giver, and it should be received gracefully. You come off as dreadfully ungrateful, and frankly if I was your family, I wouldn't give you S*it from here on out.

THIS. THIS. THIS.

And are we really comparing giving a vegetarian meat to someone giving a plastic toy to someone who doesn't like it?

I just.... I can't.

Yes, we are.  I know some pretty tree-hugging hippies.  They don't even use toilet paper because it's bad for the environment.  They use cloth wipes.  And they even buy wooden toothbrushes and razors to avoid the plastic.  To give their child a plastic toy would be completely disrespectful and a slap in their face, just like giving my athiest sister a Bible or my vegetarian sister some bacon. 

I think the main problem in this post is that people don't understand how big of a role environmentalism plays in other people's lives.  I'm not saying it is like that for me - but for others it is just as important as their religion.  They weigh every decision they make from the clothes they buy to the food they eat, determining whether or not it is good for the earth.

And once again, that's a very small part of this conversation.  There are others who are bothered by the social justice aspect of the gifts - the slave labor.  Of course those people aren't going to be happy that their son got five minutes of smiling from a toy that broke when all they see is a piece of junk that is part of the slave trade. 

I think this conversation spiraled into something it wasn't originally about, but it relates.  It isn't as simple as - just be happy with the gift and throw it away when it breaks.  The person with the moral objection to the toy isn't going to be happy about the waste.  And I think people are failing to see that because to THEM it isn't a big deal.  The whole point is that giving a gift shouldn't be simply about buying what you want to buy, but you should always take into consideration the lifestyle, values, and wants of the person you are giving it to.

Wow. Considering your statement inferring that people's responses were getting ridiculous, I actually find this to be pretty ludicrous. I do hope you grow all your own food (using no less that fair trade sourced seeds) and make all of your own clothes and use home spun woolen tampons because I'm pretty sure by your logic, ANYTHING made with synthetic or processed materials uses slave labor.

Maybe those same people are pro giving plastic gifts because to give some a wooden gift requires a tree to be killed and they are vehemently against the killing off of poor innocent trees.

I was going to try to stay out of this, but I just feel the need to point out the fact that part of the appeal of wooden toys is that they are made from a renewable resource. Kill a tree to make a wooden toy, and plant a new one in its place, and the tree is replaced (relatively) quickly. Plastic requires the use of fossil fuels, which are a non-renewable resource.

I'm pretty much on the same page as +adamwife+ on this issue. I'm not going to act ungrateful for gifts of that nature, but if asked I will specifically request things like clothes, books, wooden toys, and when she's a little older, art supplies.

And for the record, I'm pretty sure she DOES grow most of her own food and uses cloth pads and sews and such. And while I don't do those things, I buy about 90% of our food from local farms and I'm making an active effort to purchase clothing made of natural fibers from companies that have protocols in place to prevent slave labor and unsafe working conditions and such (see chainstorereaction.com), and when possible buy clothing made in the US (there's a decent amount of it at ModCloth). I also shop thrift stores. My favorite coat cost $2 and I found it in a church basement thrift store! I'm trying to edit my wardrobe to be smaller, but higher quality so it will last longer and buy less.

Finally, I think it's a little unfair to act like efforts to preserve the environment have to be all or nothing. Just because we can't eliminate our negative impact on the environment altogether doesn't mean we shouldn't bother to take reasonable steps to minimize it. Hence, requesting toys that align with our values if asked.