Still asking sleep questions....really?

momnamedandrea

Hi! I am mainly a lurker who has been here since the beginnings of the BFP. I am hear to plea with the ever wise S12 moms.

Here is the short version:

DD is not sleeping, naps in swing (eek), nurses to sleep at night, 2-3 hours in crib-then into our bed. DH against CIO, but I am leaning to it. Advice, success stories?

The tl;dr version:

I have hit a wall with my DD. I was pretty avidly against CIO for me and my family, HOWEVER, she is still not freaking sleeping. She still only naps in her swing (gasp) and I can nurse her to sleep at night and get 2-3 hours in the crib, till she is just in our bed for the rest of the night. 3 days a week she is at day care and she is lucky to get a 1/2 hour nap there. I know this is because of the sleep crutches we have set up for her. She was a great sleeper untill about 7.5 months, and for about two months slept though the night in her own crib. But then teething and sickness hit and it was all downhill from there.  My DH is super against CIO, and whenever I try to talk to him about it, he just tells me that this is what we signed up for with a baby, and people all over the world co-sleep, so it's fine. However, I am the one nursing my almost 11 month old in MOTN 2-3 times, and I am the one that has to sit in the room with her for 30+mins till she falls asleep and sneak out. And now that she is her climbing and crawling over everything I am worried she is going to climb over us and fall on the ground. So I guess what I am asking is advice: 1)sleep training (all methods) 2)how to talk DH into it 3)success stories

What I would look like if my kid sleeps in her own bed. 

starrysmile18

Well, guess what? This is us. Except he started having issues at 6 months after he was hospitalized with RSV and I slept with him in the hospital and then 2 weeks after he was released. He was pretty much crib trained at 3 months, and then it went down hill. It's funny because your DH is against CIO, and mine is for it, I'm the one who can't really stand CIO. And yes, co-sleeping is happening around the world, but you have to do what works for you. And honestly you have to do what works for your situation. 

@mathlete has been helpful for me to talk with, and I know it helped her DH to hear their pediatrician say that CIO may be the only thing that works.

At this point, and trying CIO 2x now, I don't think that's going to work due to the fact my son goes from 0-60 and starts hyperventilating, we're going to try a revamped ferber method this weekend.

Sorry I can't offer any more info, GL! And please know that you are not alone, it seems like there are many of us mommys that are struggling with sleeping issues!

hmp1

1) Read up on some non-CIO methods like The No Cry Sleep Solution. @linzeek44 can give you tips on the Sleep Lady Shuffle (?). 2) Just like everything else, you have to teach your child to sleep well which involves sleep training. 3) My situation is very different than yours since we started a sleep routine very early to put down awake and never co-sleep unless traveling.

Good luck!

momnamedandrea

hmp1 said:

1) Read up on some non-CIO methods like The No Cry Sleep Solution. @linzeek44 can give you tips on the Sleep Lady Shuffle (?). 2) Just like everything else, you have to teach your child to sleep well which involves sleep training. 3) My situation is very different than yours since we started a sleep routine very early to put down awake and never co-sleep unless traveling.

Good luck!

Thanks! I did read the non-cry sleep solution, and I tried to put it into practice, especially with the bedtime routine and shortening the comforting time, however, she still won't nap in her crib. maybe I need to look at that again and see if there are any other things I try for nap times. 

hmp1

As a last resort, send your husband on a 3 day boys weekend and ferber that adorable baby

momnamedandrea

mhanson18 said:

Well, guess what? This is us. Except he started having issues at 6 months after he was hospitalized with RSV and I slept with him in the hospital and then 2 weeks after he was released. He was pretty much crib trained at 3 months, and then it went down hill. It's funny because your DH is against CIO, and mine is for it, I'm the one who can't really stand CIO. And yes, co-sleeping is happening around the world, but you have to do what works for you. And honestly you have to do what works for your situation. 

@mathlete has been helpful for me to talk with, and I know it helped her DH to hear their pediatrician say that CIO may be the only thing that works.

At this point, and trying CIO 2x now, I don't think that's going to work due to the fact my son goes from 0-60 and starts hyperventilating, we're going to try a revamped ferber method this weekend.

Sorry I can't offer any more info, GL! And please know that you are not alone, it seems like there are many of us mommys that are struggling with sleeping issues!

Oh man! glad I am not the only one, but also sorry you are going through this too. Let me know how your re-vamped version works for you!

BeebopandBuddy

I would try to look at some of the sleep training information with your husband.  Does he really understand that it isn't just laying your kid in the crib, shutting the door and letting them cry?  There are check-ins and soothing in some training techniques.  Maybe he would be more open to that?  The name can sound pretty harsh and people don't always understand that there are processes involved.

linzeek44

We did a modified sleep lady shuffle, with a revamp of naps to make sure we broke the over-tired cycle. 

When we started night sleep training, we did WHATEVER it took to get some naps in him so that he wasn't going into the night to overtired to self soothe and stay asleep. This meant I held him for naps or tried the car or tried the swing. We really didn't go anywhere the first few weeks, since sleep was the priority. 

I decided not to night wean, so instead we focused on him putting himself to sleep, and I would nurse him and put him in the crib awake. With the sleep lady shuffle, we were in a chair at the side of his crib. I nursed, read a book, put him in with his lovey. We (well, I made DH start the night off for the first day of each new phase since I was not happy about it) sat in the chair and could pat his head, stroke his back, say calming things, etc as necessary. The rule is that you have to control the touch (so no letting him hold your hand or grab onto your arm). We would soothe intermittently and we were still there so he could see us. Once he was asleep, we would leave. If he woke up and was hungry, I'd nurse then back into the chair. If he woke up shortly after and wasn't hungry, DH would go in. 

We paced it on our own timetable, so we did a bunch of days with the chair by the crib, then moved the chair to the middle of the room, then to the door, then outside of the door where he could see us, and then in our room using only voice through the monitor. The key for us was keeping data on how long it took for him to fall back asleep so that after a hard night we had some actual proof that things were indeed improving. It sucked a lot when at 3 am I was sitting in a chair in the hallway instead of back in my bed, but we promised each other we would give it a fair shake. 

Once he was able to put himself down to sleep, we figured out the timing for naps. We have to put him down before he shows signs of being tired. First nap is two hours after waking up. Then three hours of awake time, then afternoon nap (which hasn't been going well recently, but at least he is getting some good sleep in the morning). We had planned on doing a shuffle for nap, but it turns out he was able to put himself down since we were timing it well and he had learned those skills. 

We ran into big blips when he learned to stand because now he'll stand up and party, but I leave him in there for a while and then we just abandon the nap and try again later. 

Let me know if you have questions. it worked decently for us. And saved the fledgling of sanity I had left after he was waking up every 45 minutes. 

LyndseylovesHugh

delaine0821 said:

I would try to look at some of the sleep training information with your husband.  Does he really understand that it isn't just laying your kid in the crib, shutting the door and letting them cry?  There are check-ins and soothing in some training techniques.  Maybe he would be more open to that?  The name can sound pretty harsh and people don't always understand that there are processes involved.

This.  I feel like people hear CIO and think that you just let them cry until they pass out.  We did Ferber, and the first night you can go in and soothe them after only 3 minutes.  Yes, those were the longest 3 minutes of my life, but she now sleeps wonderfully and is the happiest baby ever, so it clearly did not scar her for life :-)

LuvSD

We are still struggling a little bit with sleep. C still gets up at least once and maybe twice to drink a bottle. We somewhat follow the Ferber method and will go in a soothe after several minutes. If she gets more and more amped up, I will give her a bottle and she will usually go right back to sleep.

I think consistency is the biggest thing. Do you have a solid night time routine so that your LO knows that it is about time to go to sleep?

As for talking with your husband, I would go through some material on sleep training with him and have him go to the next pedi appointment so he can hear it from the doctor that CIO is not traumatizing. Can you have him feed the baby from a bottle and sit in with your LO so that you get a break at night? If he experiences what you have been having to do for just a few nights, he may change his tune.

ellebee2

It sounds to me like the Sleep Shuffle might work for your family. I had planned to do that, but DD gets more angry when she can see me. Different kids respond to different things. 

We did Ferber (but I followed the Sleepeasy Solution - same concept, different book). I really liked the way the book was written and has lots of good information that you could use to help convince DH. 

For us - DD was only napping in my arms, nursing to sleep, waking multiple times a night, etc.

We did nights and naps at the sametime (starting with night, then naps the following day). 1st night she cried 45 mins, and then got progressively less over the next 4 days. Now she just fusses for 5 mins or less and STTN.

Naps took us about 4 weeks to get sorted - but now she rolls over and falls asleep when I lay her down and sleeps for 1-2 hours at a time. 

Good luck. 

momnamedandrea

delaine0821 said:

I would try to look at some of the sleep training information with your husband.  Does he really understand that it isn't just laying your kid in the crib, shutting the door and letting them cry?  There are check-ins and soothing in some training techniques.  Maybe he would be more open to that?  The name can sound pretty harsh and people don't always understand that there are processes involved.

I think that might be what needs to happen, almost everything he knows is second hand information.

momnamedandrea

linzeek44 said:

We did a modified sleep lady shuffle, with a revamp of naps to make sure we broke the over-tired cycle. 

When we started night sleep training, we did WHATEVER it took to get some naps in him so that he wasn't going into the night to overtired to self soothe and stay asleep. This meant I held him for naps or tried the car or tried the swing. We really didn't go anywhere the first few weeks, since sleep was the priority. 

I decided not to night wean, so instead we focused on him putting himself to sleep, and I would nurse him and put him in the crib awake. With the sleep lady shuffle, we were in a chair at the side of his crib. I nursed, read a book, put him in with his lovey. We (well, I made DH start the night off for the first day of each new phase since I was not happy about it) sat in the chair and could pat his head, stroke his back, say calming things, etc as necessary. The rule is that you have to control the touch (so no letting him hold your hand or grab onto your arm). We would soothe intermittently and we were still there so he could see us. Once he was asleep, we would leave. If he woke up and was hungry, I'd nurse then back into the chair. If he woke up shortly after and wasn't hungry, DH would go in. 

We paced it on our own timetable, so we did a bunch of days with the chair by the crib, then moved the chair to the middle of the room, then to the door, then outside of the door where he could see us, and then in our room using only voice through the monitor. The key for us was keeping data on how long it took for him to fall back asleep so that after a hard night we had some actual proof that things were indeed improving. It sucked a lot when at 3 am I was sitting in a chair in the hallway instead of back in my bed, but we promised each other we would give it a fair shake. 

Once he was able to put himself down to sleep, we figured out the timing for naps. We have to put him down before he shows signs of being tired. First nap is two hours after waking up. Then three hours of awake time, then afternoon nap (which hasn't been going well recently, but at least he is getting some good sleep in the morning). We had planned on doing a shuffle for nap, but it turns out he was able to put himself down since we were timing it well and he had learned those skills. 

We ran into big blips when he learned to stand because now he'll stand up and party, but I leave him in there for a while and then we just abandon the nap and try again later. 

Let me know if you have questions. it worked decently for us. And saved the fledgling of sanity I had left after he was waking up every 45 minutes. 

THANK YOU, for all this information. it is good to see how you did it and how it worked for your family. The hard part for me is naps, since 3 days a week she is getting (or not getting) her naps at daycare. I also think some of the issue is that I have been to lazy to work on it at 2am....but it is time for me to suck it up and have a little while of crappy 2am's for better sleep in the future.

momnamedandrea

LuvSD said:

We are still struggling a little bit with sleep. C still gets up at least once and maybe twice to drink a bottle. We somewhat follow the Ferber method and will go in a soothe after several minutes. If she gets more and more amped up, I will give her a bottle and she will usually go right back to sleep.

I think consistency is the biggest thing. Do you have a solid night time routine so that your LO knows that it is about time to go to sleep?

As for talking with your husband, I would go through some material on sleep training with him and have him go to the next pedi appointment so he can hear it from the doctor that CIO is not traumatizing. Can you have him feed the baby from a bottle and sit in with your LO so that you get a break at night? If he experiences what you have been having to do for just a few nights, he may change his tune.

I have used the Pedi card, and since he couldn't be there I asked her to give us some written information on her suggestions. The issue is we somewhat tried it for two days (in-consistently) and it didn't work so he threw it all out. I think we need to re-group and be a unite front so that it will be consistent. We do have a very consistent night time routine, but that's about it.

momnamedandrea

ellebee2 said:

It sounds to me like the Sleep Shuffle might work for your family. I had planned to do that, but DD gets more angry when she can see me. Different kids respond to different things. 

We did Ferber (but I followed the Sleepeasy Solution - same concept, different book). I really liked the way the book was written and has lots of good information that you could use to help convince DH. 

For us - DD was only napping in my arms, nursing to sleep, waking multiple times a night, etc.

We did nights and naps at the sametime (starting with night, then naps the following day). 1st night she cried 45 mins, and then got progressively less over the next 4 days. Now she just fusses for 5 mins or less and STTN.

Naps took us about 4 weeks to get sorted - but now she rolls over and falls asleep when I lay her down and sleeps for 1-2 hours at a time.

Good luck. 

I haven't heard of that book, I will have to check it out! She doesn't get too angry when she see us so the Sleep Lady Shuffle might work. 

bosha711

Think of it this way: Your current situation is doing her more harm than doing Ferber ever will. For nearly a year, your child has had poor sleep habits. When you compare that to a couple days, or even a couple weeks of sleep training, it seems like a no-brainer.

Sleep training is harder on the parent than it is the child.

We went through this with my first kid & learned from our mistakes with our second. Looking back, we were doing our first a huge disservice by refusing to sleep train. MH was hugely against it, so finally when our first turned 1 yr old, with the support of our pedi, I pretty much told MH to stay out of my way b/c I was going to sleep train whether he liked it or not.

VineyardMel

I also have a bad sleeper. It kills me because she puts herself to sleep, naps great but just wakes up a lot during the night. We've tried to let her cry but she's got the temperament where she just keeps getting more and more amped up, hyperventilating, etc. and that's not the solution for us. We signed up with babysleepsite.com and got a sleep plan. What they recommended for us is similar to the sleep lady shuffle. The plans are pretty inexpensive (I think it was $150) and for me it was more than worth it to have someone who is an expert give me a plan rather than try to figure it out on my own from all the different options out there. The site also has lots of good articles that are free.

KKSBeans

You are not alone. I bought the No Cry Sleep Solution because (like MHanson) I kno K's personality and she is 0-60 is seconds. She naps on me, which I guess doesn't bother me because it means snuggles lol. However, she is waking up at night just to be with me or DH. The secondwe pick her up she is back to sleep. I used to put her in bed, but she is far too mobile now and we almost had an accident from it, so come hell or high water, she is not getting back in my bed.

Last night she woke up at 12:30, 1:45, and 3:45. 3:45 is when I brought her out to the couch and fell asleep there (she slept all night after that). She was STTN until she cut her bottom 2 teeth, started STTN again, and then quit.