WM Spouses of Lawyers

GreenMonkey1

Background: I work full-time out of the home and my husband is a self-employed lawyer (largely domestic, estates, & business law).  DH is doing pretty well after 5-years, especially considering the recession - we are, however, not rolling in it by any means.  One of the big reasons I work is for benefits as self-pay insurance is expensive and we'd like DH's take home to be stable at a certain amount for more than a year.  We would like me to be a SAHM at some point, hopefully by the time DS heads to kindergarten. 

I have suggested DH look for a job with a firm because a firm would pay a stable salary + benefits.  Plus, there would be some back-up - right now taking a vacation doesn't happen and I am pretty much on call all the time if DS needs to get picked up from daycare (which is hard for my own job).  DH has the following arguments why working for a firm isn't a good option:

- I will NEVER see him because the firm will own him
- The firm could fire him
- There isn't anything available (that is bull, I know he hasn't looked)
- He can make more money self-employed

Clearly, I am not a lawyer and I have no experience with working for a firm.  We live in Ohio, there is a major metro within driving distance, his law school grades are not good enough for one of the major firms, but he has a good track record as a lawyer and good relationships with other lawyers/judges/magistrates.  Does anyone have any insight?  Am I totally nuts to suggest he apply for jobs at a firm.

wedsept

I am also a lawyer and married to another lawyer.  We are both fortunate to have found firms which are essentially 8:30/9 to 5:30 (otherwise known as lifestyle firms, which rarely exist).  But, we are both lucky and have been practicing for close to 15 years.  We both went through firms that were horrible.  Most firms make you work very hard.  Also, there aren't that many jobs out there for lawyers these days.  (It might take him over a year to find a job.)  The market is still pretty bad for lawyers. 

I don't agree with the "they would fire you" comment--if he got hired, he would probably be able to keep his job unless he screwed up badly.  However, most firms are at least 160 hours min a month (without a bonus).  if he wants a bonus, he has to work harder. 

He may very well have a difficult life at another firm and be miserable.  A lot of lawyers I know aren't happy until they go out on their own. 

Also, while my husband's firm is more prestigious, my benefits are substantially better.  It all depends.

If your husband is happy doing his own thing, I would leave him be.     

Mustardseed2007

I also agree that being fired is not a big risk for lawyers that work at firms. Usually people quit before they get fired b/c of the work load or firm politics. I work inhouse, and most of my law school buddies are super jealous of my schedule and work load.

At this stage (I'm 6 years in, and so are all my law school buddies) I've reached the point where a majority of my friends are now moving in house (about 70%). I know this happens, but it actually has really surprised me which ones have gone that route, though maybe it shouldn't. Some of the most successful ones are the ones going in house. The legal field IS tight right now, but it IS possible to find work if he really wants it, either working for a company or working for a firm. He may be right, though, that the hours will really su*ck, especially at first, at a firm. As a 5th year attorney, though, I think his experience will weigh more than his grades.

I only know 1 lawyer on her own, and she works harder than any of us b/c of the networking piece. If you do quit your job and you need benefits, I would suggest that you work with an insurance agent who can help you get a group plan anyway. For instance, your husband can hire you on as his secretary and then you two can get a group plan together. It's not going to be as cheap as what your job is offering you now, but it will be cheaper than your husband going out and buying a plan all on his own.

Your husband should also perhaps find a place where he can office with other solo practitioners that can help back each other up in a pinch and do some fee sharing. That's another way to get group insurance and a way you guys can get some down time. Actually, that may be what he really needs to do. That way he still is self employed (which is what it sounds like is the root of why he likes what he does) but he is able to have some small amount of group support.

TheBorg7of9

How can anyone say lawyers won't get fired.  I'm confused.  We are laid off all the time...  I was laid off in 2009, and it took me 18 months to find a new job.

I know it is tempting to ask your husband to get something at a firm, but if he is happy doing this, then maybe you should try to figure out more ways to make it work better for your family.  Instead of trying to get him to make this huge change.

thedash

I think your husband is 100% right about all four of those points. I'm a lawyer and self-employed. My husband is a lawyer for a government contractor working onsite at a federal program.

I looked for jobs for a while before going into private practice and did not find anything. I needed to leave my public defender job because I couldn't keep up the stress and hours after I had DS. I have excellent grades from a top-50 law school and live in a major metro area with an active legal job market. I chose not to go big law from the beginning and I don't regret it. However, small and mid firms would have paid me a shockingly low salary and expected long hours even after I had 3 or 4 years of trial experience.

My DH worked in very low-paying non-profit jobs for over 4 years before getting his current position. He really got lucky with his current job because it's at a very small federal program that he worked closely with in his non-profit so he had some rare, specialized experience. Even so, he is on a contract that could disappear at any time and sequestration has been terrifying for us. If he gets laid off tomorrow his paychecks stop. Even if I have a bad month we always know I'll bring home something as long as I get up and go to work everyday. And my good months are really good.

I have a law partner so taking vacation is not a problem. I also feel that I have a lot of flexibility in my daily schedule. I'm the one who does pediatrician appointments, stays home for the cable guy, etc. As long as I don't have a court appearance I can make my own schedule, take phone calls on my cell and answer emails from home.

Trust me - there are NO legal jobs out there right now and if your husband has built a successful practice it would not be smart to walk away from that. You should both be really proud of what he has accomplished as a lawyer and a business owner. Maybe he needs to consider taking a partner or support staff to free up his time a bit if his business is ready for that.

traveltheworld

I am a lawyer at a big firm, and other PPs are right - good legal jobs are pretty hard to come by right now.  Perhaps he could join a small firm as a partner/associate and work out an arrangement where he'll get paid what he bills?  That way, there is "back-up" but he still has control over his practice.

JoAnna914

I work at one of the very rare lifestyle firms in my area, and even here, there are generally pretty high demands on associates.  However, I happen to also work for one of the firms power-women, and she gives me latitude in terms of schedule flexibility that is unheard of in firm practice. I still work the hours, but where I work them is not of concern to her as long as I get my work done within the confines of our deadlines.  I count my lucky stars EVERY SINGLE DAY for my situation, it is just that rare. 

Your husband seems to also have one of those situations - he just needs an office share.  

GreenMonkey1

Thanks for all of the replies!

I do know the legal field is tight in terms of hiring and the hours are long.  DH already works long hours so (to me) it is worth at least looking at a position with a firm or in-house that may have additional benefits since he already works the hours.  Since I'm not an attorney and DH has never worked for a firm, I am not sure which of his reasons for staying self-employed are legitimate and which are just based on what he hears.  Especially since (in my experience) people tend to complain more about the bad parts of their jobs rather than extol the good - I can be guilty of this as well.

I appreciate all the responses, gives me some good thoughts to mull over.

jess9802

I'm an associate attorney at a small firm in a suburban area. My experience has been a little different than some of the PPs.

My firm does not have a billable hours requirement - and associates are generally hired with the expectation that they will become shareholders. It's all about collections. Most of the attorneys in my office are in by 9 and out the door shortly after 5. They rarely work weekends.

So, I don't think it's necessarily the case that the firm will own him - I work 9 to 5 (through lunch to justify leaving the office early) and rarely work weekends. My work load is picking up as I'm transitioning to shareholder, but it is not anything approaching the hours requirement of a major law firm. (Neither is my salary, however.) But, it's definitely firm specific as to the work load that is expected of attorneys, especially junior partners/associates.

The legal market has contracted in the last few years, perhaps permanently. Firms may not be interested in associates. However, if your husband has a successful solo practice and a book of business, he may be more appealing to firms, depending on their compensation scheme. Our firm isn't hiring associates, but we've added two partners and an attorney of counsel in the last two years because it was financially advantageous for all parties. A good friend of mine just joined a small firm in the Bay Area after a couple of years as a solo in part because she wanted more stability as she and her husband think ahead to having children. She's been really happy with the switch, but hers is a family friendly/lifestyle firm.

court115

I'm not a lawyer but I work for them. I now work for a "life-style" firm - i.e. everyone is in around 9 and out by 5 - and I'm the happiest at work that I've ever been. But before I had my son, I worked at a large litigation firm. Everyone who wasn't a partner was owned by the firm. The associates were in the office by 7 and often there when I left at 5:30. Most nights we worked overtime - a lot of the time until 1 or 2 am. Guess who was usually there with me? The associates. When I worked weekends, the associates were there too. They were always the first ones in and the last ones out. Not to mention that the stress level was crazy high. I can also tell you that our benefits were awful and the associates were on the same healthcare plan as the paralegals were.

That being said, I don't know how they do it. I also don't know how their spouses do it. My relationship suffered and I was "just" a paralegal working that crazy schedule. If fact, watching what the associates were put through was the sole reason why I decided not to go to law school.

If your husband is happy where he is and it's a serious possibility that you'll be able to afford to be a SAHM in a few years, I would say to let him stay where he is. There are definitely perks to being in a firm (vacation time) but I think there is a better life-work balance working for yourself. To me, life-work balance is a lot more valuable than the potential to make more money.