Sleeping Issues.... still.

starrysmile18

Here's the deal. Carter was crib trained at 4 months. Then, the health issues started, with endless days of RSV, bronchitis, pneumonia, and then hospitalized with RSV. The last episode was early April, and since then C has NOT been tolerating his crib. While he was hospitalized, I slept with him, and then when he was released I slept with him for 2 weeks after. He was waking up all the time coughing and just needed to be on me in order to sleep, so I let that happen. Looking back I know that this is my fault that we're struggling now. 

Fast forward to May-June-July, he goes to bed by 7:00-7:30pm, seeing as how I need to wake him by 6am to leave for "school." We go through his bed time routine starting at 6:30pm with lotion, jammies, books, bottle and singing. I can usually get him down in his crib drowsy, and he's good for 45-60 min. Then he wakes up screaming 2-3 times before 11pm when he finally passes out for the night. I cant figure out what the heck is going on. And then I usually end up giving in around 930-10pm because I'm exhausted as well, and so he comes to bed with me. UGH. I cannot take this anymore. I have read the No Cry Sleep Solution and another Happiest Baby Sleep Guide something or other as well as read about the Ferber. We've been doing a revamped ferber with picking up, soothing and putting back down. 

Also he'll turn onto his belly and then has issues rolling back yet, and so then that wakes him up even more.

Is anyone else still having sleep issues? Or have you had issues but then discovered success? Am I just going to have to let him scream it out? He actually screams so long and so hard that he gets sick and that makes me so anxious.

I am just coming to the board for suggestions because I feel like I'm failing in the sleep department.

On a side note at school he isn't sleeping in his crib either. They have to rock him until he's totally asleep and then put him in his crib, and he wakes up hysterical. This is no good. Any advice? He is such a happy/good baby all other times except for when it comes to sleeping. I'm desperate.

Thanks in advance.

JessicaxLynn87

Oh, honey. I actually posted of my sleep troubles in another thread yesterday. My child has become a terrible nighttime sleeper. It started in June when she began teething. Even after the tooth popped through, her nighttime sleep was still shot to hell. She's like your son, she will go down relatively easily in her crib but wakes up crying 1-2 hours after. We made it a habit of getting up and rocking her back to sleep. Then, once she did it again we just placed her in bed with us. It has become too much because she sleeps very wildly and we can no longer sleep with her unless we want to be punched and kicked all night long. So, last night after having enough we decided to let her CIO. It was awful but a relief at the same time as I knew we needed to do this. It wasn't the best night but we stuck to our guns. We will see what tonight brings. Our LO doesn't do well with us going in to soothe, so we think we have to do full extinction. My only advice is to stick with it. That's the only way you'll get relief. I am also telling myself this after just one night of CIO.

linzeek44

A couple ideas: I know when E was waking up frequently (like every 45 minutes for the first half of the night) it was actually do to being over-tired. Is he napping enough at school? Could you try the bedtime a little earlier for a few days and see how that goes?

Since he is rocked until completely asleep at school, it sounds like he wakes up screaming probably in part because he isn't where he was when he fell asleep, you know? 

We had good luck with the sleep lady shuffle. We started with nighttime (kept our routine, pushed bedtime up a bit) and "taught" him how to put himself to sleep. During those days we did whatever it took for him to get good naps to break the cycle of being overtired so he could self-soothe at night. It sucked in the middle of the night when I was in the chair is his room, exhausted, but we stuck with it all night long so that we could see results when doing the plan with fidelity. 

AKB090609

I'm sorry your having issues! My experience: When DD was hospitalized in March her sleep went to shit. After we got home she had huge issues with being put in the crib, I think she was afraid because of all that had happened in the hospital. It was so bad that she was sleeping in the swing for naps until 9.5 months. Since then we have found that she will no longer sleep unless she is alone. It was so hard listening to her get all worked up, but we found that if someone tried to soothe her it made it 1000x worse. I hope you find a solution soon!

starrysmile18

Normally we go in within 5 minutes to soothe him. He only takes two 30 minute naps at school, and then he'll take 1.5 hrs (with me holding him) when we get home. Thats around 3:30-4pm. He's normally ready for bed again by 6:30pm, but I try to keep him up till 7-730pm. I feel like if I put him to bed a little earlier, he'll wake up after an hour and be "up" because he just took a short "nap." But I don't want him to "nap" that late in the day. You know? He's usually awake in the mornings between 5:30am-6:00am on his own. Rarely he will wake at 4, eat a few ounces and sleep until 6:30 am.

Do you think I should keep him up later than 7pm? I just don't know how late is too late, and once he gets cranky, he doesn't want to do ANYTHING. It's rough.

Kissty

Do you follow his sleep cues yawning, rubbing eyes, etc. to determine the bed time.

starrysmile18

@themathlete

themathlete said:

I actually am going to the pediatrician at 11 to get sleep advice. We don't even have a reason (e.g., hospitalization), just have a super shitty sleeper. I will let you know what he says. We are at a breaking point.

How is your LO sleeping? Is she still with you in bed? 

I went to our pedi around 9 mo and she said just to let him scream it out. I honestly can't handle that. I get way way to spazzy.

starrysmile18

How the heck do I tag someone?!

JessicaxLynn87

themathlete said:

I actually am going to the pediatrician at 11 to get sleep advice. We don't even have a reason (e.g., hospitalization), just have a super shitty sleeper. I will let you know what he says. We are at a breaking point.

Let me know as well.  When I voiced my concerns to our pedi, she told me it was time to CIO.  She said I must lay her down drowsy, let her learn how to fall asleep on her own, and then allow her to CIO at wake-ups.  She told me one nighttime feeding was fine, but to simply feed her and lay her back down awake.  I'm curious as to what your pedi recommends.

opaque1997

mhanson18 said:

Normally we go in within 5 minutes to soothe him. He only takes two 30 minute naps at school, and then he'll take 1.5 hrs (with me holding him) when we get home. Thats around 3:30-4pm. He's normally ready for bed again by 6:30pm, but I try to keep him up till 7-730pm. I feel like if I put him to bed a little earlier, he'll wake up after an hour and be "up" because he just took a short "nap." But I don't want him to "nap" that late in the day. You know? He's usually awake in the mornings between 5:30am-6:00am on his own. Rarely he will wake at 4, eat a few ounces and sleep until 6:30 am.

Do you think I should keep him up later than 7pm? I just don't know how late is too late, and once he gets cranky, he doesn't want to do ANYTHING. It's rough.

Ok - so THIS - right here.. exactly us until a month ago.  She still naps like crap at daycare but I did two things (now this first one I understand won't work) - Daycare was Patting her to sleep - I asked them to stop.  We don't do this at home and I was concerned it was part of the issue - they now put her in her crib - tell her goodnight and then wait.. and its often a LONG wait - but my baby just plays - stands up , sits up - looks through the bars.. etc.  She isn't upset so thats different - but ANYWAY... 

The BIGGEST game changer for us was.. NOT LETTING HER SLEEP PAST 5.  Why is 5 the magic number?  I don't know - but I was like - no way - she needs that long nap from 3:30 / 4 until often 6 or even 7 some days.. but I thought what have I got to lose... it SUCKS waking her up - and yes I deal with crabby pants some nights - but we do it (I often take her on a walk in her stroller where she is dosing but not sleeping for 20 minutes at 5 / 5:15 and that helps) - then I keep her up until 7:30 at MIN sometimes if she's happy enough until 8.  This was what finally made the biggest difference.  AND - we had the same thing - she was waking a TON until about 12:30 sometimes 3am then sleeping hard until 7 - 9am.  

Some days this means she only gets 1.5 hours of sleep TOTAL for the day.  It doesn't seem to matter (now she just started teething and its all crap.. but when its "normal")  

I saw a sleep specialist a month ago - and she said break sleep associations (aka nursing to sleep, rocking to sleep, etc) and make sure she goes down awake - we were doing that already - she was still waking 6-8 times a night - but self soothing after 5-10 mins most of the time - no matter - once we stopped the napping after 5 she stopped the night wake ups.

So - wake him up at 5 and try it. (FYI I was REALLY reluctant to do this because she would often sleep until 6:30 and then be seemingly ready to go down at 7:30 - but once we tried it - it was like day 3 she slept through for 8 hours)

Other things -my nephew had heart surgery and had the same crib adversion - they did end up having to make him cry it out  They tried everything - it took 2 nights of hell and then he was over it.  I'm not saying you have to do that - but I do think you need to teach him to sleep.  Mothers in my pump room have slept next to the crib - sometimes with their hand in the crib for a few nights to teach their hcild to sleep in the crib.

OTher things - make sure you have a bed time routine that is consistant (not timing - but process) - see if you can associate a blanket and / or lovey or I knwo a lot of people use a shirt that smells like them or their pillow case... 

opaque1997

thechimichanga said:

Daycare needs to help you. 2, 30 minute naps is not enough, clearly.

I would talk to them about getting him to sleep longer during the day. No nap after 5 like PP said.

Though I agree - sometimes daycare is doing all they can - we are in group care and my daughter will not nap longer then that because she wants to play and be with the other babies.  So.. short of pulling her out which DH was adamently against I tried everything I can - just saying - sometimes you are limited.. 

JessicaxLynn87

themathlete said:

@themathlete

themathlete said:

I actually am going to the pediatrician at 11 to get sleep advice. We don't even have a reason (e.g., hospitalization), just have a super shitty sleeper. I will let you know what he says. We are at a breaking point.

How is your LO sleeping? Is she still with you in bed? 

I went to our pedi around 9 mo and she said just to let him scream it out. I honestly can't handle that. I get way way to spazzy.

She is either in her PNP in our room or in bed with us. Just got done with the pediatrician. He said we are just going to have to CIO and suggested 1 tsp of Benadryl before bedtime. Basically, I knew we needed to CIO. I needed DH to get to his breaking point and hear it from our doctor.

Is DH on board now? My husband was always on board. It was me that wasn't. Well, until last night.

JessicaxLynn87

@themathlete Good to know the time frame. Tonight will be our first night really doing it as last night we did it only after we had gotten up to rock her. I wish you the best of luck!

redneckmomma25

themathlete said:

@JessicaxLynn87 Kind of. He is dreading it and says he doesn't know how he will make it through. He may have to put headphones on while I deal with it. The pediatrician told us that habits should change within 6-8 days but it can take up to 2 weeks.

Send him out of the house...

Honestly, FFTC: The crying didn't bother me.  I was so frustrated and upset every night because she would no longer go to sleep that I was just done.  I met my limit.  The crying didn't bother me.  After she fell asleep I'd feel a little twinge of guilt, but she sleeps so good now! That is what she needed to learn to put herself to sleep. 

opaque1997

A few notes that helped me and are good to know:

1) sometimes the 2nd or 3rd night are worse then the first..  HANG IN THERE the night after the regression is normally when things really start to get better and stay better.

2) Think about this - if you could sit on the couch and say - AH and get cookies, cake, ice cream brought to you - would you ever leave the couch?  Sometimes things have to be uncomfortable to drive you to learn to change - babies are no different.  If they can fuss and we rock them to sleep then why bother learning how to sleep?  They don't really start to crawl until they want to get somewhere / something that they can't get to without doing so.. etc.  So try to think of the crying as them say - I want to sleep and I'm trying to learn - that helped me because I could root for her - you go this girl (from the monitor in the other room) - you can do it - and then when she did it - it was like she scored at a soccer game!  

3) Its hard to hear your baby cry - I often took a shower with the fan on (couldn't hear her) and set my alarm for the time frame (10 mins or whatever) so I could "break" from the crying - so send DH out of the house - make him take a shower - put headphones on - go out on the deck - whatever..

BarefootContessa

I think I needed to read this; thanks OP. I have the worst sleeper in the land. He wakes every 2 hours...but I still nurse him to sleep. I know something has to change. I am exhausted.

thebanich

My docs suggestion was benadryl/CIO also. I have a really hard time with the crying and I'm not a huge fan of drugging my children.

JessicaxLynn87

Why the Benadryl? My pedi never said anything aight that. I mean you can't give them Benadryl every night.

opaque1997

Honestly - the Benadryl rec scares me.. but I'm nervous nelly about that stuff

JessicaxLynn87

themathlete said:

JessicaxLynn87 said:

Why the Benadryl? My pedi never said anything aight that. I mean you can't give them Benadryl every night.

To make her extra sleepy and more likely to sleep through transitions. I am not entirely comfortable with it and knew that the board would say the same thing. I am on the fence but desperate. DH says we are not trying it tonight. I am too exhausted to fight over it so I guess we will start CIO tomorrow.

It seems silly to me. They must learn how to do it eventually. Seems like the best option is to just do it without any medicine. I understand your exhaustion. Try to get some sleep tonight and go into it tomorrow with a clear head. If DH tries to fight against it, send him elsewhere. You have to do what's best for you!

starrysmile18

@themathlete

Please keep me posted. We are going outta town thus weekend and will start it Monday night. Please know you are not going thru this al

starrysmile18

^* alone!

Flamingemu

JessicaxLynn87 said:

Why the Benadryl? My pedi never said anything aight that. I mean you can't give them Benadryl every night.

Before we figured out L had Reflux, our pedi had recommended Benadryl before bed. She got it every night for about 3 weeks with no changes (good or bad) and I went back to the pedi saying it wasn't working and something else had to be wrong.

The Benadryl didn't help her sleep more, but we also saw no adverse issues with giving it to her.

redneckmomma25

themathlete said:

Flamingemu said:

JessicaxLynn87 said:

Why the Benadryl? My pedi never said anything aight that. I mean you can't give them Benadryl every night.

Before we figured out L had Reflux, our pedi had recommended Benadryl before bed. She got it every night for about 3 weeks with no changes (good or bad) and I went back to the pedi saying it wasn't working and something else had to be wrong.

The Benadryl didn't help her sleep more, but we also saw no adverse issues with giving it to her.

Thank you for sharing this. My pedi recommended doing the Benadryl for two weeks or until the CIO seemed to be working. i.e., starts recognizing that yes, the crib is where we are supposed to sleep. I am hoping it doesn't take two weeks; I am also hoping that she doesn't get wired from Benadryl -- he did say that it happens to some kids but definitely not all.

Maybe try a small dose before a nap? Test and see her reaction.

KKSBeans

We have sleeping issues too guys. She either ends up in my bed or on the couch with one of us every night. This happened after her first 2 teeth popped through. I know CIO is not an option, because I know her personality (before anyone says "how do you know if you don't try"). She goes from 0-60 in a matter of seconds...no point to this really. I just wanted to let you guys know you aren't alone.

 

JessicaxLynn87

I wish everyone dealing with sleeping issues the best of luck! Going through it myself, I know that it is not easy! Hopefully we all experience relief soon.