Babies: 0 - 3 Months

cry or not to cry

ok so i have question ds is 4 months old now and does not nap well during the day at all.  I either have to drive him around in the car or put his car seat on top of a vibrating chair with a banket over it and rock him every once in a while. If I don't do this he is unbearable later in the day.  At night he gets a bath and last bottle around 8-8:30 and I rock him to sleep as soon as I put him in his crib he screams.  My mom tells me to let him cry my mom in law tells me not to.  I pick him back up and rock him back to sleep again but then we just start over again and this can go on for hours.  I don't really know what to do.  any suggestions? 

Re: cry or not to cry

  • i was about to post the same thing....allie does good at night (knock on wood!), but tends to cry when i put her down for naps during the day....i'm wondering how long i should allow her to cry before i get her....i think it's absolutely fine to let them cry...our pedi said 30 min, but i kind of feel like that is too long....
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  • see the CIO post below (stands for cry it out) most here are against it.  I am in the SAME exact boat as you with my 5.5mo old and have been since, well her whole life basically.  i usually end up holding her for a lot of naps or letting her sleep with me because it is the only way she will sleep at all and i know if she doesn't nap she will be miserable.  i would say check out dr. ferbers book and see how you feel about it.  also maybe try letting him cry for a very short amount of time (2-5 mins, maybe 10 at the most) because i hear all the time about some babies just needing that amount of time to calm themselves down and then they sleep. That does not work at all for my DD she will jsut go from fussing to crying to screaming.  Good Luck!
  • Can you try bedtime a little earlier?  Mine threw up a huge fuss in the evenings when she was littler.  we started bedtime routine at 7 starting around 2 months and have no issues getting her down.  if she doesn't fall asleep while nursing we can put her in the crib drowsy but awake and she talks herself to sleep.
  • I don't think CIO is appropriate, IMO.  It just depends though, if DD is just 'whining' I wait and see what happens, sometimes she falls asleep sometimes it gets louder.  There is just no way I could let her cry, it is her only form of comunication so I feel she needs me.
  • We really need some new topics around here.....Here we go! Wish I could stay for the drama but need to go start my baking.
  • I know that he is really tired because he's bearly holding on but as soon as I lay him down he screams so loud!!  It only last for about 15-20 mins but it's the seems like the longest 15-20 mins of my life.  I go in about every 5-10 min and rub his tummy and tell him he's ok but I don't want to pick him up because then we just start all over again.
  • imagemarley07:
    i was about to post the same thing....allie does good at night (knock on wood!), but tends to cry when i put her down for naps during the day....i'm wondering how long i should allow her to cry before i get her....i think it's absolutely fine to let them cry...our pedi said 30 min, but i kind of feel like that is too long....

    You are an asss.

  • I feel your pain. DD is a crappy napper. Her naps are 30 minutes long and I need to spend about 30 minutes beforehand just to rock her and get her to sleep. I'm not at all into CIO so for the moment I'm just grinning and bearing it. I'm hoping that eventually she'll get it and be able to get herself to sleep without mummy's help. If that doesn't work, my new copy of The No Cry Sleep Solution is being mailed to me as we speak.
  • imageABMcKinney:

    imagemarley07:
    i was about to post the same thing....allie does good at night (knock on wood!), but tends to cry when i put her down for naps during the day....i'm wondering how long i should allow her to cry before i get her....i think it's absolutely fine to let them cry...our pedi said 30 min, but i kind of feel like that is too long....

    You are an asss.

    I second that.

    Momma to three boys: Henry - 4yo Alex - 18mo Jack - born 2/23/12 at 20w due to ruptured uterus (previa and accreta resulting in hysterectomy) He only lived here on Earth for an hour, but he will live in our hearts forever. m/c #1: sept '09, m/c #2: july '10
  • I used the Ferber method and it worked great.  I didn't start until DS was 5 months though.  It does require some CIO, but I was very comfortable with the amount of time allowed to cry before going in and soothing him. 

    A lot of people don't agree with CIO, but this worked great for us.  Now if DS wakes up at night he puts himself back to sleep within a few minutes.

    Good luck!

  • My daughter used to wake up immediately after putting her in her crib.  I read somewhere that you can rock them to sleep in your arms and then wait at least 10 minutes before putting them in the crib.  Maybe try that?

    Also, sometimes I'll put her down and still keep my hands on her for a minute so that she's not going from my warm hold to a cold crib.

  • You have to find something that works for you.  For us there are some days when she will only sleep if I am snuggling her or if she is in her carrier (I have an Ergo).  But we just do what we have to do to get her to sleep.  But before you consider CIO please read this article:

     

    Cry It Out: The Potential Dangers of Leaving Your Baby to Cry

    By Margaret Chuong-Kim on March 22, 2005 Children's Health IssuesHealthy Pregnancy
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    Among parents of infants these days, there is constant debate about how to respond to a baby?s cries. On one hand, there are proponents of the ?cry it out? method, where the baby is left alone to cry in the hopes that he or she will eventually stop. On the other hand, there are the ?attachment parents? who respond immediately to their crying babies and attempt to soothe them using various methods including holding and cuddling. While the cry-it-out method (CIO) has been popular in previous years, attachment parenting (AP) is gaining a foothold among new parents today. Results of studies in psychology indicate the AP approach to crying is most likely to result in an emotionally and physically healthy child.

    Attachment theory originated in the late 1960s when psychologist John Bowlby postulated that a warm, intimate relationship between caregiver and infant is necessary for optimal health as well as for basic survival. As such, each individual is born well-equipped with reflexes and instincts for interacting with their primary caregiver, which is often times the mother. For example, infants quickly learn to recognize and prefer both their mother?s voice and smell. As babies develop some locomotor control they display their desire to be close to their caregivers by reaching toward their mother or father to be picked up or by crawling toward them. From an evolutionary perspective, these behaviours have survival value. Babies who lack such attachment behaviours will stray from their caregivers and are more likely to get lost, attacked, and perish. An infant?s cry is also intended to increase the likelihood of its survival, as a mother?s instinct is usually to go to her child at the first sign of distress.

    We live in an age where we can know that the baby is safe in another room, despite the loudness of his cries. Does this mean we should leave babies to cry on their own? CIO proponents often advise that babies left to cry will eventually stop, and the duration of future crying bouts will decrease. What are the emotional consequences of crying for the infant when she is left unattended? Bowlby and colleagues initiated a series of studies where children between the ages of one and two who had good relationships with their mothers were separated from them and left to cry it out. Results showed a predictable sequence of behaviours: The first phase, labeled ?protest?, consists of loud crying and extreme restlessness. The second phase, labeled ?despair?, consists of monotonous crying, inactivity, and steady withdrawal. The third phase, labeled ?detachment?, consists of a renewed interest in surroundings, albeit a remote, distant kind of interest. Thus, it appears that while leaving babies to cry it out can lead to the eventual dissipation of those cries, it also appears that this occurs due to the gradual development of apathy in the child. The child stops crying because she learns that she can no longer hope for the caregiver to provide comfort, not because her distress has been alleviated.

    Do babies cry more when they are attended to? A 1986 study concluded just the opposite: the more a mother holds and carries her baby, the less the baby will cry and fuss. Cross-cultural studies also show that parents in non-Western societies are quicker than parents in Western societies to respond to their crying babies, and babies in non-Western societies cry for shorter spans of time. Caregivers in 78% of the world?s cultures respond quickly to an infant?s cries. For instance, Efe caregivers in Africa respond to a baby?s cries within ten seconds at least 85% of the time when the baby is between three and seven weeks, and 75% of the time when the baby is seventeen weeks. !Kung caregivers respond within ten seconds over 90% of the time during the baby?s first three months, and over 80% of the time at one year. In contrast, American and Dutch caregivers have been found to be deliberately unresponsive to an infant?s cries almost 50% of the time during the baby?s first three months. Infants in non-Western societies have been found to fuss just as frequently as those in Western societies, but due to the prompt response of caregivers in non-Western societies, the overall cumulative duration of crying is less than what occurs in Western societies.

    According to attachment theory, many babies are born without the ability to self-regulate emotions. That is, they find the world to be confusing and disorganized, but do not have the coping abilities required to soothe themselves. Thus, during times of distress, they seek out their caregivers because the physical closeness of the caregiver helps to soothe the infant and to re-establish equilibrium. When the caregiver is consistently responsive and sensitive, the child gradually learns and believes that she is worthy of love, and that other people can be trusted to provide it. She learns that the caregiver is a secure base from which she can explore the world, and if she encounters adversity she can return to her base for support and comfort. This trust in the caregiver results in what is known as a secure individual.

    Children who do not have consistently responsive and sensitive caregivers often develop into insecure individuals, characterized by anxious, avoidant, and/or ambivalent interactions. Long-term studies have shown that secure individuals, compared to insecure individuals, are more likely to be outgoing, popular, well-adjusted, compassionate, and altruistic. As adults, secure individuals tend to be comfortable depending on others, readily develop close attachments, and trust their partners. Insecure individuals, on the other hand, tend to be unsettled in their relationships, displaying anxiety (manifesting as possessiveness, jealousy, and clinginess) or avoidance (manifesting as mistrust and a reluctance to depend on others). North American parenting practices, including CIO, are often influenced by fears that children will grow up too dependent. However, an abundance of research shows that regular physical contact, reassurance, and prompt responses to distress in infancy and childhood results in secure and confident adults who are better able to form functional relationships.

    It has been suggested in the past that CIO is healthy for infants? physical development, particularly the lungs. A recent study looking at the immediate and long-term physiologic consequences of infant crying suggests otherwise. The following changes due to infant crying have been documented: increased heart rate and blood pressure, reduced oxygen level, elevated cerebral blood pressure, depleted energy reserves and oxygen, interrupted mother-infant interaction, brain injury, and cardiac dysfunction. The study?s researchers suggested that caregivers should answer infant cries swiftly, consistently, and comprehensively, recommendations which are in line with AP principles.

    CIO supporters tend to view their infants? cries as attempts to manipulate caregivers into providing more attention. Holding this view can be detrimental to the immediate and long-term health of the baby. In the field of cognitive psychology there exists the premise that our thoughts underlie our behaviour. Thus, if we think positively about an individual, our behaviours toward them tend to be positive as well. Conversely, if we think negatively about an individual, we will behave correspondingly. Consider people in your own life whom you consider manipulative ? how does that perception influence your behaviour toward them? It is unlikely that the interpretation of a manipulative personality will result in the compassionate, empathetic, and loving care of that individual. Infants, quite helpless without the aid of their caregivers, may suffer both emotional and physical consequences of this type of attitude.

    When faced with a crying baby, it may be prudent to ask yourself the following questions: Why am I choosing this response? Do I want my baby to stop crying because he feels comforted and safe, or do I want my baby to stop crying for the sake of stopping crying? What is my baby learning about me and the world when I respond in this manner? If I were a baby and was upset, how would I want my caregivers to respond?

    References

    Campos, J., et al. (1983). Socioemotional development. In P. Mussen (Ed.), Carmichael?s Manual of Child Psychology: Vol. 2. Infancy and Developmental Psychobiology. New York: Wiley.

    Craig, G., Kermis, M., & Digdon, N. (1998). Children Today. Scarborough, ON: Prentice-Hall.

    Dacey, J. & Travers, J. (1996). Human Development Across The Lifespan (4th Ed). Boston: McGraw-Hill.

    DeCasper, A., & Fifer, W. (1980). Of human bonding: Newborns prefer their mothers? voices. Science, 208: 1174-76.

    Gleitman, H. (1996). Basic Psychology (4th Ed). New York: W.W. Norton.

    Hunziker, U. & Barr, R. (1986). Increased carrying reduces infant crying: A randomized controlled trial. Pediatrics, 77(5): 641-8.

    Luddington, Hoe, S. Cong, X., & Hashemi, F. (2002). Infant crying: Nature, physiologic consequences, and select interventions. Neonatal Network, 21(2): 29-36.

    Macfarlane, A. (1975). Olfaction in the development of social preferences in the human neonate. Parent-Infant Interaction. Amsterdam: CIBA Foundation Symposium.

    Mikulincer, M., & Shaver, P. (2001). Attachment theory and intergroup bias: evidence that priming the secure base schema attenuates negative reactions to out-groups. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 81(1): 97-115.

    Miller, R. (2000). Dysfunctional relationships. In R. Kowalski & M. Leary (Eds.), The Social Psychology of Emotional and Behavioral Problems: Interfaces of Social and Clinical Psychology. Washington, DC: APA.

    Waters, E., Wippman, J., & Sroufe, L. (1979). Attachment, positive affect, and competence in the peer group: Two studies in construct validation. Child Development, 50: 821-829.

    https://www.vancouver.wsu.edu/fac/hewlett/infantcare.html

  • imagekatslep:

    My daughter used to wake up immediately after putting her in her crib.  I read somewhere that you can rock them to sleep in your arms and then wait at least 10 minutes before putting them in the crib.  Maybe try that?

    Also, sometimes I'll put her down and still keep my hands on her for a minute so that she's not going from my warm hold to a cold crib.

    I second this. I had to do this with DS up until a month or so ago.

  • imagesmfinallymg:
    imagekatslep:

    My daughter used to wake up immediately after putting her in her crib.  I read somewhere that you can rock them to sleep in your arms and then wait at least 10 minutes before putting them in the crib.  Maybe try that?

    Also, sometimes I'll put her down and still keep my hands on her for a minute so that she's not going from my warm hold to a cold crib.

    I second this. I had to do this with DS up until a month or so ago.

    I still do this! It rocks. I call it "laying on hands". Every time I do it, I hear
    Bon Jovi "Lay your hands on me" in my head.

    Momma to three boys: Henry - 4yo Alex - 18mo Jack - born 2/23/12 at 20w due to ruptured uterus (previa and accreta resulting in hysterectomy) He only lived here on Earth for an hour, but he will live in our hearts forever. m/c #1: sept '09, m/c #2: july '10
  • imagemarley07:
    i was about to post the same thing....allie does good at night (knock on wood!), but tends to cry when i put her down for naps during the day....i'm wondering how long i should allow her to cry before i get her....i think it's absolutely fine to let them cry...our pedi said 30 min, but i kind of feel like that is too long....

    Your baby is 2 weeks old and you want to let her cry it out??  Give me a break.  And get a new dr.  Yours sucks if he thinks it's ok to let her cry at that age.

     

  • Check out Baby Whisperer.  You can use the pick up/put down method.  I am transitioning Colin to the crib for naps and if he cries when I put him down, I pick him up and soothe him.  Then put him down again.  He never screams, just sort of half cries.  I could NEVER let him cry.  After about 20 times he falls asleep in his crib.  I always stand there and rub his back telling him that mommy is there.  He just needs to learn that his crib is for sleeping, not mommy's chest.  I also think this is why he won't sleep there at night. He goes to daycare at 6 months and obviously needs to learn to sleep in a crib.

    My ped said to let him CIO, but I refuse.  My MIL said to as well, but I ignore her.  My mom said that they never did it with me because i would vomit all over myself everytime I cried.  I would never let Colin CIO, but that is me.  

  • Thank you for the article. I think it is much better for people to make informed decisions rather than "my mom says, but my mother in law says"

    My questions is can there some sort of middle ground? I usually rock DD for 10 minutes and she will fall asleep. When I put her in the bassinet she starts to wiggle and will often start crying, but her eyes don't open. I used to pick her up immediately, which sometimes threw her into a full blown scream. Now I wait about 30 seconds. Most of the time she falls to sleep right after a few seconds of crying. It is like she is settling in and some whimpering/crying is part of that. I felt terrible at first to stand over her and watch her cry...I mean there are times when we are driving or if I'm in the shower that she has cried longer than 30 seconds, but it feels different when I could pick her up right away. Does anyone else's DC do this?

  • i posted this above, but on the new TV show The Doctors, they were talking about how crying affects a baby.  apparently, when a baby cries for ten minutes or more in a room alone, the blood flow to their brain is greatly reduced and brain swelling can occur.  simply being in the room with the baby when they are upset changes that.  HTH.

     

    also, we co-sleep, that might help

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