Wow. Last time I checked I thought we lived in America...where each individual has the freedom to make choices for themselves and their children that are in line with what they think is best and fits into their personal and family values. I'm shocked that women would bully other women through a pregnancy forum for making personal decisions we all are free to make. I plan to have testing done because I'm high risk and my insurance will pay for it, but I would never judge someone for choosing an alternative path, nor would I want to be judged in my choices. Let's show each other a little bit of respect.
There is so much crazy offensiveness in this thread, that I just can't. This is gonna be a novel. Sorry.
OP, @AndreaKae27 , the other ladies are right. Prenatal screening tests are not only for Down Syndrome, and they also don't give you a positive or negative answer. I know it can be really confusing, but the women here have given you a lot of good information. I'd research far more into these tests then just your anecdotal evidence before making a final decision.
@Jbosarge85 I totally get that you don't want to have an abortion, no matter what you discover about the baby (though, I would certainly hope that if there was a condition that would kill both of you if you continue the pregnancy that you would terminate. I'm going to assume you're a Christian, and most major pro-life Christian denomination bodies and organizations even recognize the importance of preserving the mother's life in these situations...you do have a family you'd leave behind that loves you, after all). I would never have an abortion, either, unless it was life threatening to both the baby and I, and I almost didn't get any screening, but I am SO glad I did. My quad screen came back 1 in 12, which was extremely scary for a 22-year-old with no known risk factors. I ended up seeing a perinatologist, who offered me MaterniT21, which was not offered in my small town. He also noticed my daughter was starting to fall behind on growth on his ultrasound equipment, which was one of my earlier signs of pre-eclampsia. Although my OB ignored the peri, and all my pre-e symptoms, when I finally went into the ER the day I was transferred to a bigger hospital to prepare for my daughters early arrival, if it hadn't been for that information, the on-call doctor at the hospital may not have taken a closer look at my case, either.
Another benefit to getting the testing was that my "everything will be perfect" bubble was popped. I already had HG and was not having a good pregnancy, but I had it in my head that baby was invincible. I learned very quickly that was not the case. I also learned how offensive it is to say "Down syndrome baby". If life is so important to you, please recognize that the baby "has Down Syndrome", not that it is a "Down Syndrome baby"...there is far more to that life than a disability.
@RelativeChaos00 , you are one of many reasons why people hate Christians. Seriously. People like you put thick, black veils over the light of Christ that we're supposed to be shining to the world, and that really, really pisses me off. I am pro-life, too, but you know what? Not everyone is. We don't have to agree, but we SHOULD follow Christ's example and show compassion to those who are suffering, struggling with difficult decisions, and try to be understanding of why people make the choices they do. It doesn't mean we have to like it, but responding with a catch-all answer such as "murder is murder" is foolish, hurtful, and cruel. If you don't, as you put it: "murder", a non-viable or extremely unhealthy baby that will end up killing the mother if the pregnancy isn't terminated, then isn't the mother a victim of murder, too? These things aren't black and white. Very few things are. But I can tell you that there are three things that are in the Bible, that are spelled out very clearly: Compassion, love, and understanding. If you can get off of your high horse for a few moments, perhaps learning the stories of some of the women on this site can help you develop some of these virtues.
We will pay out if pocket for genetic testing and we will abort if there is a confirmed probelm. I work in the dev disabilities world and know that it is not the path we want to walk.
The interesting thing is that a little over a year ago I would have secretly judged you as I believed in no abortions for any reason whatsoever, except to save the mother's life. But after just having a baby with Trisomy 18 & actually delivering him & holding him only to lose him the following day, I've learned that a woman knows how much she can bear. This time I plan on getting the genetic testing (it tests for all chromosome abnormalities). I'm not saying I would end the pregnancy if this baby had trisomy 18 again but Im not sure I can go through that hurt again & I can honestly say I don't know what I will do. But I do want to be prepared.
BTW, my situation was a little different than Downs' Syndrome in that my baby was anticipated to not live more than a few hours & we knew he would have little to no lung tissue at birth. If he did live it would be less than a year & he would have required multiple surgeries & have significant disabilities.
I have a son with a chromosmal duplication, severe Classic Autism and Global Developmental Delay. I would never consider aborting a child because of a disability. That being said knowledge is power. Especially if there are physical risks the baby faces. For that reason I will be getting testing done.
All of you are saying that you would test not because you wouldn't abort but so you would be prepared. I also mentioned in my comment that reason. I didn't say just the abortion I just know that is one reason people find out. It's just if you get a high percentage (which there is a high chance of false positive) you have to get an amniocentesis which is very invasive and can cause a miscarriage, I know it's not a huge number. But I don't want to risk it. My sister and a good friend of mine both had down syndrome babies, both had heart issues, but none of them were offered in utero heart surgery. My niece, her heart fixed itself before they left the hospital, my friends daughter had surgery at 7 months old. My sister didn't know until after my niece was born that she had down syndrome because she didn't get the test either. And I've asked her if looking back she wished she had and she said no. Even if you know that your baby will have down syndrome there are different severities and there is no in utero test that will tell you that.
It's quite obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. Quit while you're ahead.
I suppose you are the expert?
For one thing, you wouldn't get an amnio. You'd get a chorionic villus sampling (CVS) test. Amnio is for later in the pregnancy. It would be an option if something shows up during your anatomy scan (most often performed at 18 to 22 weeks).
And anyway, as someone else pointed out upthread, there are newer, less invasive blood work options (like MaterniT21, Harmony, and Panorama) tests that give you a definitive answer. So, you're not left with "what ifs."
I don't care one way or the other whether you get the test yourself or your reasons. If you think you'd never abort, I think you're naive. But that doesn't affect me at all.
But when you start spreading misinformation on this site, you're going to get called out on it.
I wouldn't get a CVS, in fact they don't even do them in the state I live. There has been documented cases where they have found cells in the placenta for downs as well as other defects and the baby didn't have it, plus miscarriage rates are higher. I would wait for the Amino in that case.... Although I chose NT scan and the Chrom test and will go from there.
I'm talking about anyone else, I'm talking about my own personal beliefs. Not sure where my religion, and what you assume it to be, comes into play. For ME to have an abortion, I would consider MYSELF to be committing murder. I didn't say you have to feel that way, I said I do. It's your choice and one you have to live with. It is not one I could live with. They asked what I thought and said that to say I would never have an abortion is naive; I disagree. End of story.
@vikingmom806, I find it really cute that you accuse me of lacking in compassion, and blah, blah, blah... How about you remove the plank from your own eye before going for the splinter in mine? You do not know me, you made a bunch of assumptions on who and what you think I am and that I apply my own beliefs to everyone else I meet. I could tell you that you're wrong, but I don't think it would do me any good, you seem pretty determined to judge me by your standards when the Bible specifically tells you to leave that to God.
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You're real peachy yourself, WhoCanItBeNow. I don't know why you feel the need to get so worked up about someone else's feelings and choices, but I guess that's your prerogative. I'm not trying to force my beliefs on you, so why do you even care what I think or do with my own body?
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You're right, @RelativeChaos00 , I don't know you. I only know what you project of yourself via this site, and so far, from what I've seen, you're pretty despicable. If you want people to think otherwise, you should not only improve your reading comprehension skills, but also realize how disgusting the things you've said on this thread are.
Let me make this really clear, because people are apparently missing the whole point, I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU! When I answered the question posed to me, I was answering it for myself, and only for myself. I am not speaking of anyone else's choices or decisions, I don't know, care, or judge you for your choices, I was speaking of my own. For ME, ending a baby's life is not a choice I think I could live with, that doesn't mean I find fault with someone else who has made it. You all assumed I was talking about you, you made my comments about yourselves, and they were never meant to be. You assumed it's because I was trying to force my religious beliefs on you and would denounce you all as murderers if you consider aborting a baby who wouldn't live anyway. I never said that, and it is not the case. Let me explain to you where I'm coming from.
When I was a teenager I was raped. I made the decision then that abortion was not an option. I was then abused, both mentally and physically, but someone who claimed to be doing me a favor by "caring" about me. It took me two years to get out and up until that point I still had not told anyone I'd been raped. I took it out on myself, blamed and hated me, for what someone else had done. I spent far too long thinking my life was worth nothing and I am still, almost 10 years later, finding pieces of me that have not totally healed. I am not telling you ANY of this for sympathy. I simply want you to understand. I have come a long way, and a whole lot of that is because of the love, and lack of judgement, my husband has shown me. The result is that I, feeling that I have regained my life, could not take another's, even in place of it. I am not trying to push or force my choices or my decisions on any of you, I would never do that. All I said in my first few posts pertained to myself alone. I don't know why earlier posters made it about themselves, but it was not meant to apply to them.
When I replied last night, it was with frustration and I had not yet read the first few replies to my original comments. I didn't realize you all thought that I was talking about anyone but myself! Just to make this clear, my comments were only about my personal choices, they were not an attempt to tell any one of you who has read this what choices you should be making. You made that assumption, and I'm still not certain why, but it is incorrect.
I did see one person who said that they were forced to make that exact decision, and to her I just want to apologize for the misconception. I did NOT intend or mean for my comments to make your pain worse, even for a moment. I am really and truly sorry if they did. If someone I cared for were in that position, I would probably encourage them to make the choice you did.
I hope that this clears some things up, as this thread has become little more than a name-calling session. My opinions are my own, and they are only meant for the one person whose choices I can affect; my own. I didn't mean them as guide for others or a comment on someone else's choices, none of that was ever my intent. Take care, ladies. I do hope things go easy and well for all of you.
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Let me make this really clear, because people are apparently missing the whole point, I WAS NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU! When I answered the question posed to me, I was answering it for myself, and only for myself. I am not speaking of anyone else's choices or decisions, I don't know, care, or judge you for your choices, I was speaking of my own. For ME, ending a baby's life is not a choice I think I could live with, that doesn't mean I find fault with someone else who has made it. You all assumed I was talking about you, you made my comments about yourselves, and they were never meant to be. You assumed it's because I was trying to force my religious beliefs on you and would denounce you all as murderers if you consider aborting a baby who wouldn't live anyway. I never said that, and it is not the case. Let me explain to you where I'm coming from.
When I was a teenager I was raped. I made the decision then that abortion was not an option. I was then abused, both mentally and physically, but someone who claimed to be doing me a favor by "caring" about me. It took me two years to get out and up until that point I still had not told anyone I'd been raped. I took it out on myself, blamed and hated me, for what someone else had done. I spent far too long thinking my life was worth nothing and I am still, almost 10 years later, finding pieces of me that have not totally healed. I am not telling you ANY of this for sympathy. I simply want you to understand. I have come a long way, and a whole lot of that is because of the love, and lack of judgement, my husband has shown me. The result is that I, feeling that I have regained my life, could not take another's, even in place of it. I am not trying to push or force my choices or my decisions on any of you, I would never do that. All I said in my first few posts pertained to myself alone. I don't know why earlier posters made it about themselves, but it was not meant to apply to them.
When I replied last night, it was with frustration and I had not yet read the first few replies to my original comments. I didn't realize you all thought that I was talking about anyone but myself! Just to make this clear, my comments were only about my personal choices, they were not an attempt to tell any one of you who has read this what choices you should be making. You made that assumption, and I'm still not certain why, but it is incorrect.
I did see one person who said that they were forced to make that exact decision, and to her I just want to apologize for the misconception. I did NOT intend or mean for my comments to make your pain worse, even for a moment. I am really and truly sorry if they did. If someone I cared for were in that position, I would probably encourage them to make the choice you did.
I hope that this clears some things up, as this thread has become little more than a name-calling session. My opinions are my own, and they are only meant for the one person whose choices I can affect; my own. I didn't mean them as guide for others or a comment on someone else's choices, none of that was ever my intent. Take care, ladies. I do hope things go easy and well for all of you.
I find it even more abhorrent that you've had these life experiences & you have the gall to call abortion murder. When you place value of the mother's life or the quality of life of the infant at a very high value-- that is not murder.
Your use of the word "murder" implies malicious, evil & horrible intent on behalf of the person aborting for whatever reason. THAT is why people are jumping your shit. You are talking about the intentions of anyone (not just yourself).
You said "murder is murder". You cannot put a predatory act like murder on the same level as an act of mercy to spare suffering of either mother/child or both. You just can't. It's vile.
Try to explain it any way you want but it still is very inflammatory. You can feel that for yourself but to state it on a public forum is in poor taste. There is just some shit you can keep to yourself or behind closed doors with your shrink.
Aborting for the health of mother and/or baby is NEVER murder. Murder implies a desire to do harm & take a life. That's not what's happening. Wake up.
I chose to have the NT test because as a series of diagnostic tests it is fairly reliable but it still only gives me a percentage of the likelihood of Down's. I would not have an amino or an abortion. But I would like as much information to prepare for my child as possible and also to hasver services and support in place if needed.
For those saying they would never have the test because they don't want to have an abortion it is not just about abortion. We had dear friends who felt that way and because they didn't want to go through the tests to get it confirmed because they only thought about abortion was why people do the testing they missed a very serious and common heart condition for babies with downs. The dr told them in retrospect had they done the test specialists could have been on stand by for their baby at birth meaning less time stuck at the hospital and baby could have gone home days earlier. I mean to each his own but you can find out more about your child's health without ever thinking abortion.
Well, to answer the actual question that was asked: YES, I opted for genetic testing. I think knowledge is a good thing, and I'd be far more stressed out worrying if something was genetically wrong for months and blindly hoping for the best, than worrying for 2 weeks until the results came back, but getting a concrete answer.
I got the CVS test, because it was earliest definitive test, and because I'm 38, and this is my first.
If you go to an experienced provider, the risk of miscarriage is the same for CVS as for amnio, and in my age bracket, the risk of a chromosomal abnormality is higher than the risk of miscarriage from one of those tests, so the decision was easy. Plus, my age makes me "high-risk", so insurance covered it, no problem. They also offered the blood test to see if I was a carrier for cystic fibrosis, so I got that done, too.
A note on the CVS test itself, since I haven't seen much discussion of the actual procedure: I had to have the sample taken via needle, and it really wasn't that bad. No spotting, no leakage, and it seemed a bit more direct getting it done via the needle, because they could go straight to it, instead going up and in and over. I also figured I'm going to go through a LOT more pain eventually than about 60 seconds minor discomfort now, so I just gritted my teeth and got through it.
Happily, I have almost zero chance to be a carrier for cystic fibrosis, and baby's got 46 verified chromosomes - no extra, no missing. Now my only concern about genetics is hoping baby gets my good eyesight and DH's fast metabolism! I'm glad I had it done.
I just had a long discussion with my OB today and I'm opting for the Maternit21 blood test which is 99% accurate for chromo abnormalities. I'm also 35 and have a cousin with Downs. Nothing is covered under my insurance for genetic screening. The Ultrascreen is only 95% accurate. While I was in the room waiting for my OB I actually heard the nurse giving borderline test results for the ultrasound Ultrascreen and they recommended the Maternit21 test to confirm. Knowledge is power. With my two given risk factors, we chose wisely for our family, now I'm just hoping for good results.
For those who opted for the test, but were not covered by insurance, how much did it end up costing you out of pocket?
Thanks in advance!
I'm being featured in a new pregnancy/motherhood blog during the month of October, so if you ever wanted to know more about my pregnancy, birth, and motherhood experiences than anyone ever should, check out my posts in the link below!
We will have the test. With my history of losses and my history of Marfan Syndrome, it seems stupid not to have as much information as possible. Marfan syndrome can cause congenital heart defects, and I would opt for a cesarean at the Children's hospital 4 hours away versus laboring in town and potentially losing my baby after birth. I feel like no mother would knowingly put off preventative measures to keep her child healthy and safe after birth, so why would I put them off before birth?
You are a pip, ain't ya?
We opted not to have the screening done for our daughter. We will not have a screening done for this child either. It is a decision each parents makes based on the information they have at their disposal. To decide that people that choose not to get the screening are stupid, is incredibly ignorant.
Also, the 12 week screening is not diagnostic. It cannot tell you if your child has a disorder. It gives you a risk percentage.
As for the horribly misguided poster that believes that all terminations are murder, stop giving her attention. That is what she wants.
Re: Has anyone opted for the testing for Down's?
And proud mommy of GG-Age 10 and JJ-Age 7!
@vikingmom806, I find it really cute that you accuse me of lacking in compassion, and blah, blah, blah... How about you remove the plank from your own eye before going for the splinter in mine? You do not know me, you made a bunch of assumptions on who and what you think I am and that I apply my own beliefs to everyone else I meet. I could tell you that you're wrong, but I don't think it would do me any good, you seem pretty determined to judge me by your standards when the Bible specifically tells you to leave that to God.
When I was a teenager I was raped. I made the decision then that abortion was not an option. I was then abused, both mentally and physically, but someone who claimed to be doing me a favor by "caring" about me. It took me two years to get out and up until that point I still had not told anyone I'd been raped. I took it out on myself, blamed and hated me, for what someone else had done. I spent far too long thinking my life was worth nothing and I am still, almost 10 years later, finding pieces of me that have not totally healed. I am not telling you ANY of this for sympathy. I simply want you to understand. I have come a long way, and a whole lot of that is because of the love, and lack of judgement, my husband has shown me. The result is that I, feeling that I have regained my life, could not take another's, even in place of it. I am not trying to push or force my choices or my decisions on any of you, I would never do that. All I said in my first few posts pertained to myself alone. I don't know why earlier posters made it about themselves, but it was not meant to apply to them.
When I replied last night, it was with frustration and I had not yet read the first few replies to my original comments. I didn't realize you all thought that I was talking about anyone but myself! Just to make this clear, my comments were only about my personal choices, they were not an attempt to tell any one of you who has read this what choices you should be making. You made that assumption, and I'm still not certain why, but it is incorrect.
I did see one person who said that they were forced to make that exact decision, and to her I just want to apologize for the misconception. I did NOT intend or mean for my comments to make your pain worse, even for a moment. I am really and truly sorry if they did. If someone I cared for were in that position, I would probably encourage them to make the choice you did.
I hope that this clears some things up, as this thread has become little more than a name-calling session. My opinions are my own, and they are only meant for the one person whose choices I can affect; my own. I didn't mean them as guide for others or a comment on someone else's choices, none of that was ever my intent. Take care, ladies. I do hope things go easy and well for all of you.
And proud mommy of GG-Age 10 and JJ-Age 7!
Your use of the word "murder" implies malicious, evil & horrible intent on behalf of the person aborting for whatever reason. THAT is why people are jumping your shit. You are talking about the intentions of anyone (not just yourself).
You said "murder is murder". You cannot put a predatory act like murder on the same level as an act of mercy to spare suffering of either mother/child or both. You just can't. It's vile.
Try to explain it any way you want but it still is very inflammatory. You can feel that for yourself but to state it on a public forum is in poor taste. There is just some shit you can keep to yourself or behind closed doors with your shrink.
Aborting for the health of mother and/or baby is NEVER murder. Murder implies a desire to do harm & take a life. That's not what's happening. Wake up.
LFAF Summer 2016 Awards:
I got the CVS test, because it was earliest definitive test, and because I'm 38, and this is my first.
If you go to an experienced provider, the risk of miscarriage is the same for CVS as for amnio, and in my age bracket, the risk of a chromosomal abnormality is higher than the risk of miscarriage from one of those tests, so the decision was easy. Plus, my age makes me "high-risk", so insurance covered it, no problem. They also offered the blood test to see if I was a carrier for cystic fibrosis, so I got that done, too.
A note on the CVS test itself, since I haven't seen much discussion of the actual procedure: I had to have the sample taken via needle, and it really wasn't that bad. No spotting, no leakage, and it seemed a bit more direct getting it done via the needle, because they could go straight to it, instead going up and in and over. I also figured I'm going to go through a LOT more pain eventually than about 60 seconds minor discomfort now, so I just gritted my teeth and got through it.
Happily, I have almost zero chance to be a carrier for cystic fibrosis, and baby's got 46 verified chromosomes - no extra, no missing. Now my only concern about genetics is hoping baby gets my good eyesight and DH's fast metabolism! I'm glad I had it done.
Thanks in advance!
You are a pip, ain't ya?
We opted not to have the screening done for our daughter. We will not have a screening done for this child either. It is a decision each parents makes based on the information they have at their disposal. To decide that people that choose not to get the screening are stupid, is incredibly ignorant.
Also, the 12 week screening is not diagnostic. It cannot tell you if your child has a disorder. It gives you a risk percentage.
As for the horribly misguided poster that believes that all terminations are murder, stop giving her attention. That is what she wants.