Second cycle, very different results--wanted to share

NicWalker10

Hi Everyone,

I typically end up trolling the board or posting when I'm panicked and have a question, but today I wanted instead to share with you all the differences between my first and second IVF cycles hoping maybe my experience can help anyone out there looking for hope for a second cycle after dismal results on a first! I apologize for the length!

Background--DH and I did our first IVF cycle at 36yo.  We did genetic screening for each of us and came back clear. We are doing IVF due to MFI.  Our first cycle prep included BCPS.  The meds included follestim, lo dose hcg, ganarelix, Lupron and hcg trigger.  We retrieved 11 eggs, 8 were mature and all fertilized.  only 3 made it to blasts.   We did genetic testing on the embryos ( we were concerned due to age) and only 1 came back normal.  Of course we were devastated, we thought because we were doing IVF for MFI we would be in good shape.  We transferred that one normal embryo and it resulted in a chemical.  We were crestfallen, defeated and honestly just didn't know what to do for another cycle.   I started reading as many books on the subject as I could get my hands on and it all seemed to lead me to the issue of egg quality which NEVER occurred to me going into this because our RE never highlighted it.   The books I read pointed me into the direction of acupuncture and eliminating as many household and personal care toxins as possible.... I can assure you, I have never been one crazy for the organic lifestyle and I never thought I would  consider Chinese medicine practice!   I also read a lot about CoQ10 and DHEA for improving egg quality.    We met with our RE who basically said,  it's probably an egg quality issue.   I asked him about COQ10 and DHEA for a second cycle.   He agreed that I should take these supplements.

I started acupuncture weekly.  I eliminated everything from my personal care routine that contained parabens and Pthalates--including to switching to all natural deodorant (that's been an interesting endeavor!!).  I changed all of our household soaps and detergents to natural products.   I ate organic when possible, but not strictly limited. 

  We just did our second stimulation cycle.   ALL of my meds were the same (EVEN the dose, and trigger), except we prepped with estradiol instead of bcps.   I continued all supplements  and acupuncture during my stimulation.   I also stimmed for the same amount of time.   At retrieval, 34 eggs were retrieved (no OHSS .   30 were mature.  28 fertilized.   15 made it to blasts.  Our genetic testing results--all 15 embryos came back normal.   My jaw hit the floor.  .

The difference in these two cycles has been huge.   I don't know if any of my changes, or supplements or acupuncture did anything to help,  i dont know if it was the estradiol as a prep or what but I wanted to share this with those of you who feel like you are defeated after a bad cycle result because the difference in my cycles is night and day.   By making these changes and taking the supplements and doing the acupuncture,  I felt like I was doing everything I could to better our chances.

we haven't done our FET yet, so I don't know if this cycle will bring us the baby we want, but we are trying everything to get there and are trying to stay positive and hopeful.

I know every single person that's on this board is trying hard too and everyone has ups and downs, sad days and days when we feel defeated and want to cry just because we have to be hear.  I hope this update brings some of you a little hope and maybe some help. 

tvh1982

That's a wonderful story with an amazing difference! Thank you for sharing. Hope you can top it off with a BFP soon!

NurseTMD85

@NicWalker10 What an amazing story. I haven't moved on to IVF yet, but I'm sure it's in my future. This post really opened my eyes. Thank you for sharing! I hope this round brings you a BFP!!! 

wifeinraleigh28

Thank you so much for sharing!  Congrats on your wonderful cycle.  I am scared of doing IVF but I know there is a strong possibility it is in the near future for us.  We are also dealing with MFI.  It's good to know you should never give up if you have an unsuccessful cycle like you had.  FX this results in a healthy baby for you!!

cmm012

Hello @NicWalker10.  I am wondering which personal care products you replaced and what you replaced them with.
Thanks!

AandDM2014

@cmm012 My DH and I also did this. I recommend going to ewg.org/skindeep and entering every single product you use, everything from toothpaste to shampoo to make-up. It'll let you know how bad they are for you chemical-wise. Then you can decide which ones to switch out for low chemical versions. Most things from Burt's Bees is low chemical. I also use Hugo Naturals hair care products. EWG also has an app you can download and scan barcodes, that way when you're buying at the store you can scan something first to see if it is good or not.

NicWalker10

@tvh1982 @NurseTM @wifeinraleigh28 thank you for your kind words and well wishes!

@wifeinraleigh28 we did IVF with ICSI to address the MFI (low morphology) and we were able to fertilize without issue.   ICSI was recommended for this issue.  GL to you!!  I wasn't scared for my first cycle, once I had the negative experience I was then terrified so it took me a lot to get psyched for this cycle and try to not be afraid of what could happen.   I can say my acupuncturist really helped with that a lot--she's just a nice, understanding person so she has been a great resources for my anxieties and fears. 

@cmm012 I switched all hair products,  body wash,  face and body/hand moisturizer, deodorant, make up and face wash.    I also changed all of our laundry detergent and fabric softener, dishwasher soap and dish soap.   Everything has been equal in getting the job done, but finding deodorant is probably the toughest!  I've used LaVanila and Schmidts so far.  both always require a reapply, but what can ya do!

ultratomato

@NicWalker10 what a great story I may have to keep in mind the products I'm using. I did want to change my cleaning products when I got pregnant but I guess I can do that beforehand. This is my last iui before doing ivf. A little scared.  Good luck to you and FX on BFP

NicWalker10

thanks @ultratomato!  it wasn't a terribly traumatic switch--it just took a lot of research to figure out what would be ok!   Also, I think it's def worth asking your RE about the COQ10and DHEA supplements--I read a lot about them and I had to ask my RE about it and I'm thinking it helped a lot with egg quality based on what I read about each.   IF in generally is really so scary  then you throw in shots, retrievals, monitoring and it definitely takes an emotional and psychological toll.    I was less scared the more information I had--including the negatives.  to me the information has made me feel more powerful and active in the IVF journey.  First cycle, I was more of a passive participant and just doing what the Drs say because they know best.  The more info I acquired and the more qs I could ask, the better I have felt.   Best of luck to you--hopefully IUI goes well and you don't have to think of next steps! 

wifeinraleigh28

@NicWalker10 I'm so glad IVF + ICSI is an option for those of us struggling with sperm issues.  Clomid has helped my husband a bit but other than that there really isn't much else they can do for MFI.  I've often felt like I wished the fertility issues were with me because they seem to have more answers and treatments for women.  I'm glad we have the option to do ICSI though.  Thanks again for sharing.

cmm012

@AandDM2014 I've been on that website for over two hours!

GoBucksOH

 What a wonderful story! Thank you so much for sharing.  We have been through multiple rounds of IVF with ICSI due to MFI.  I am curious the amount of time between  when you made your lifestyle changes to when you did your second cycle?  I also had very different results between my second and third IVF. Although I did not make all the changes you did, my biggest change was a strict regimen of taking COQ10 and DHEA.  I am also interested in changing out some of our household products,  so I just wanted to thank you again for sharing this information. 

SafariGal28

Thank you for sharing this! I was devastating our first fresh IVF cycle ended in a bfn. We are currently waiting results of our FET but i don't have high hopes as these embryos were from the same retrieval as my fresh cycle. Doc said chances are lower than last time. My mind is preparing for having to do another cycle. 
@NicWalker10 how long did you use coQ10 and DHEA prior to your cycle? Also curious as to what doses you took. 
Fingers and toes crossed for everyone going through this.

NicWalker10

@SafariGal28 no problem!! I took 600mg of COQ10 a day (300 mg 2x per day) and 75mg of micronized DHEA (25mg 3x per day).  For whatever reason my RE was specific that the DHEA be micronized ( easy to find on Amazon).  I took these daily for three months which is also the same amount of time I've been using phthalate free and paraben free products.  One of the books I read discussed the idea that the life cycle of an egg is 90 days so to try to improve egg quality the supplements and any other egg quality measure should be implemented for 90 days. I've been doing. Acupuncture almost weekly since that time as well.   Good luck and I hope that this FET brings you  healthy and happy pregnancy. 

@GoBucksOH happy to share and good luck to you!! FYI I was able to find a good selection of products on drugstore.com.  They have pretty good pricesand are good about noting ingredients.  Method makes a line that is free of these chemicals, Meyers. Alba, burts bees are some ive been using.  For makeup and skin care Estée Lauder products are phthalate free and so are most of the brands they own (you can check their website!)
fingers crossed that we all get bcps and strong pregnancies!! 

Knottie1455746131

What a great story! This will give hope to so many! I also suggest reading the book It starts with the egg, it talks in detail about supplements, and what things to avoid. I've implemented supplements and accupunture and avoiding chemicals for my 1st and upcoming IVF cycle this month. So I won't have a baseline of what it would have been before the supplements and accupunture but I'm hoping for a great outcome. Also my Re added human growth hormone to my stim protocol as this has been known to improve egg quality.

cmm012

Hello Everyone,
I wanted to share that I have really made some efforts to research my beauty and personal care products.  I was surprised by the levels of toxicity in many of my products.  Fortunately, my soap was good because I bought a bunch of it from costco.  I have gotten rid of many lotions, all most of my makeup, lip-balms, face wash, etc.  I just ordered a whole bunch of stuff after studying that ewg.org website for about a week.  I also signed up for acupuncture and have my first appointment this week. In addition to hoping this helps my fertility, I'm also hoping these changes will help slow down my fibroid growth.  It seems as though there are coming back, and I'm only 7 months past my surgery.  Thanks for the tips everyone.

queenie001

This is such an inspiring story. Wondering... @NicWalker10did you have any side effects from the DHEA?

NicWalker10

@quennie001 i'm so sorry i didnt see your question sooner--- I dont think i had any side effects from the DHEA-nothing that i noticed anyway!  I took 25mg of micronized DHEA 3x per day--never all at once, so maybe that helps?  
Again i'm so sorry for not responding sooner!

msirni0

@nicwalker10 thank you so much for providing this info! Quick question for you. After I saw this post I did a little research myself, and I've read that there are two forms of CoQ10 that you can get. What kind do you use? Thanks again!

Rachd110

@NicWalker10 thank you for sharing your story. I know a lot of products I use has high toxins especially my dry shampoo, which I have not used since my transfer last week. I just started using Primal Paste natural deodorant and really like it. My husband uses it too. It doesn't stop you from sweating, but it keeps you smelling good! 

TaylorMichel

Thanks for sharing! We are doing IVF with ICSI for male factor as well. Good luck to you in your upcoming FET!

NicWalker10

@msirni0 I used the ubiquinol CoQ10.  My understanding is that this form is absorbed better.  
@Rachd110  I was wondering about the primal paste--i havent tried that one yet--thanks for the tip!  
thank you @TaylorMichel -good luck with your cycle!! 

lalab99

@NicWalker10 -- how long of a time period did you have between your 1st and 2nd cycle?  I'm contemplating my third but after two BFNs and only retrieving 7 eggs between the two cycles, I'm starting to wonder if I should even do it.  I've been on all those supplements for a year and keep getting the same results.    My only lasting hope is that I can find a doc who will do a FET instead of a fresh as I think that may be a factor as well.

NicWalker10

@lalab99  my retrieval had been in in July 2015 and i had an unsuccessful transfer in November 2015.  I started my stims in mid January 2016 for the dramatically improved results i mentioned in my post.  Have you tried adding acupuncture to the mix? At my clinic, they will always do FET if you prefer-they would never force you into a fresh transfer and some believe the frozen is better because your body has a chance to come down from all of the stimulation meds.    If there's no explainable reason for your results (low ovarian reserve, age etc.)  and if you would prefer to do a FET, i agree you should look for a new RE!  it sounds like you are owed a much better explanation for what is going on and a chance to do a FET!   I wish you the very best of luck! hang in there.