advice on school behavior

njbride0603

my DD is 6 and in kindergarten. Her teacher has a daily behavior calendar that comes home everyday with a star in a certain color. Yellow is awesome, green is good, red is not soo good and blue is very bad. My DD has been coming home with red stars for talking and or not following directions. She can't seem to get more than two green stars in a row. They get three warnings before a red star so that means she's not listening to the teacher after she's been told 3 times to stop or start doing something. I'm trying to give her the benefit of the doubt b/c its a new school, there are 27 kids and a new teacher. But its frustrating and she doesn't seem to really care that she's getting red stars. We've taken things away and have told her she won't be doing fun activities. My mom thinks a daily behavior report is a bit much b/c they are only 5 and 6 years old. My husband is furious with her b/c of her behavior and wants to punish her big time. She's been in daycare since she was a baby and we have never had behavior problems until now. what do you do for this kind of thing with your kids?

Thanks!

acbarbour

I had this problem in Kindergarten with DS.  He is a very social boy and we found out that he was more advanced than the other kids and got bored.  We tried everything at home but he didn't really understand what he was being punished for.  I took at day and spent a few hours at his school observing him.  An hour or so watching him with out his notice and an hour or so with him knowing I was there. 

He got warned a lot to stop talking and to sit correctly in his chair, etc.  We learned a lot about him and his teacher found more challenging work for him to do and gave him extra rewards for positive behavior (extra computer time, 5 extra mins of play, being the line leader when he had four good days in a row) and at home we made him sit quietly in a chair correctly instead of punishments to model the behavior that was expected. 

It took about the whole school year for him to get it but he got it.  If her work is not affected by her behavior I would look into see if she is more advanced learns differently than the other students.  I don't think that 3 warnings in a full day is not that many warnings.  I would also pay attention to how the instructions are given is the teacher giving her to much at once.  Is she being asked to do 5 things or 2 things.  My DS could only hear the first 2 things you told him and would forget the rest almost immeadiately.

2chatter

I would just discuss with the teacher and see what the deal is.

And can I say with 27 kids and a four star rating system with multiple levels to change between stars, does she do anything other than track who is in violation across all the categories???

itsmevkb

My 2nd grader came home one day this year with a detention.  He's never had a bad report, ever, since starting school at age 3.  All of his teachers have had a system similar to what you described and he's never even come home "in the red."  When I found out why he got the detention I honestly just sort of blew it off.  Apparently, lots of kids in the class were talking so as punishment they all were told they couldn't talk during lunch.  Well, my son talked and got a detention.  He was shocked that I wasn't going to punish him but I told him the detention was the punishment and I sort of chalked this whole thing up to a newer teacher not quite knowing how to handle a classroom with 25 7-year-olds. 

All of this is to say, you know your kid, so if this is a new issue and it's only at school then I would talk to her teacher and find out what she has to say.  I think that will give you a good idea of whether or not this is real problem.

litzo27

I agree with your mom. I think behavior sheets are too much at K/1 grade. Unless a persistent/serious issues needs to be pointed out I expect the teacher to handle the everyday stuff. (And to contact me if something needs to be discussed). I do not punish for whatever happened in school. We do discuss it and talk about approaches to help DS1 with whatever is hard for him at the moment (not fidgeting during reading workshop for example).

Your DH is furious with her? For talking and not listening? She is a 6 year old. In a class of 27 (which is a super large class for that age). She is probably getting distracted by all the other kids or is daydreaming. It's not malicious behavior on her part. My guess is that at least half the class are having the same issue and the teacher hasn't yet figured out how to work them. He needs to calm down, ALL THE WAY down.

njbride0603

he's unemployed at the moment which is def adding fuel to the fire but I think he's overreacting...before we could even discuss anything he told her if she gets anymore red starts this week she won't be going to the pumpkin carving party at his parents and if she gets a red star next week she won't be going trick or treating....I think he's taking it a bit far at this point.

AZ123

I posted on the parenting board a more lengthy response but wanted to encourage you two to try to reward instead of punish. We gave DS1 a dollar every time he came home with a good report and when he came home with a bad report  we took a dollar away. He had a blast doing it and it finally motivated him to do much better. I also checked in with his teacher every day. I think when the teacher knows you're involved and doing something at home too that they cut the kid a little more slack.

As for your DH and Halloween ask himself to put himself in your DD's shoes.  Talking during class is extrodinarly common and how he would feel if his parents punished him the same way. Also, point out and remind him of all the GOOD things she does. Like being nice to her younger sibling, etc.

being unemployed sucks.

74dragonfly

cjcouple said:

njbride0603 said:

he's unemployed at the moment which is def adding fuel to the fire but I think he's overreacting...before we could even discuss anything he told her if she gets anymore red starts this week she won't be going to the pumpkin carving party at his parents and if she gets a red star next week she won't be going trick or treating....I think he's taking it a bit far at this point.

wth??  sorry that is way over the line.  Might be time to step in there mom.

I agree your DH has way too harsh of consequences. also they are too far off. our DD, in kindy, had issues with listening. if she didn't listen at school she lost TV privlege at night. TV is her favorite thing. she gets to watch about an hour a day and she loves it. losing it worked. 

MickeyM04

I think DH is overreacting and honestly I don't really believe in punishments generally (more of natural consequences/reward kind of mom here), but I can see the point when they are more immediate.  Like, you hit your baby sister, go to time out now....or, you threw your dinner on the floor, now you don't get anything to eat (although that's probably more natural consequences).  Even at that age, I don't know that being "bad" at school and then having a punishment 2 weeks later is going to really instill that much understanding as to why the behavior is wrong.  I mean if I'm a little kid, I'm going to be like, Wait, I get to act like a dick every day for two weeks until something negative comes from it?  Cool.  Also, how is taking things away (the party, trick or treating, etc.) teaching her what behavior you DO want?  

Also, I have never been a huge fan of punishing/etc. when the sole behavioral problem is not listening.  DH tries that all the time too, giving time outs or what have you for not listening (yes, I realize we need to get more on board with each other since he is open to punishing and I am really not), and I'm like, are you punishing him for not listening?  Is that really going to teach him why he should listen?  It's also too broad.  Like if he asks DS to not throw his food on the floor and DS does it anyway, and then DH says, "If you don't listen, you're going to get time out," what does that really do?  Wouldn't it make more sense to say, "I asked you not to throw your food on the floor, and you're throwing it on the floor anyway.  If you keep throwing your food on the floor, you're going to get a time out."  It's not really the listening that you want to encourage, technically it's that you want him to stop throwing his food.  I feel like that's easier to correct than the broad "listening" concept.

emberlee3

amy052006 said:

2chatter said:

I would just discuss with the teacher and see what the deal is.

And can I say with 27 kids and a four star rating system with multiple levels to change between stars, does she do anything other than track who is in violation across all the categories???

Agreed.  Frankly 27 is ALOT for a kindy class with no assistant.  And if she is keeping that sort of track of violations for each kid, I am willing to bet the teacher is the issue.

It sounds like it is a combo of too high a ratio at that age, a not so hot teacher trying to manage it, and unreasonable expectations.

Also your husband is being ridiculous, but you realize that.

All of this.  DS is in kindergarten.  His class is 20 kids.  They have a behavior chart and get a color each day.  I think it's a bit ridiculous, so I don't make a big deal out of it either way.  But all 3 kindergarten teachers use the same chart, and they are all very experienced, so whatever.  If the teacher tells me there is something specific with DS's behavior, I mention that to him but I don't punish for stuff at school.

fitmom82

I'll admit I'm very bias.  I teach 8th grade, not 6 year olds, and I'm exhausted from dealing with kids that don't know how to behave and parents that don't respond on top of the 500 other duties of a teacher these days.  That 1st comment, let school handle school, made me sick.  I work in an urban, difficult school, and the students that succeed are the ones who come from supportive homes.  If you're not planning on being involved, don't expect your child to get much out of their education.

Why at 6 years old should a parent not respond to a child's behavior in school?  We're not talking about a 2 year old.  Yes, 27 children in a class is a large class, but that's even more of a reason the teacher needs all of the children's cooperation and attention.  I absolutely think the parents need to at the very least talk to your daughter when she comes home on red and reward her for yellow.  

It may not help with young children, but in the middle school the best way I've seen parents deal with disruptive students is to surprise them in class and sit with them.  It's the best way to show you truly are interested, invested, and holding them to a high standard.

Again, it's really disappointing to see how many of you blame the teacher for setting up a behavior management system.  Teachers are incredibly overworked, but we do everything we need to do to make sure us and the students have a successful day.  I'm pretty sure the only thing she's doing isn't moving children from 1 color to the next.  She's doing that so she can provide them with meaningful lessons, which I'm sure she's spent a great deal of time planning and preparing for as well.

MommyAtty

I'm on the fence on this one. I do agree with @fitmom82‌ that parents need to support and reinforce what is being taught at school. And that means enforcing reasonable expectations for behavior. And it's reasonable to expect a 5-6 year old to generally listen and follow directions. BUT I would have a lot of questions for the teacher before reacting. How many kids are coming home regularly with poor reports? If it's more than a handful, the teacher may be the problem. What has the teacher done to help the child succeed? Is the child sitting with a friend she's chatty with? If so, has the teacher moved them? Or is the teacher relying solely on a daily sticker to be the motivator? It's sad but there are a lot of new teachers who just aren't cut out to teach. That may or may not be the case here. But if this child is the only kid who's having this issue, then start figuring out how to motivate your kiddo at home. I'd try rewards before punishments, but whatever works for your child.

Kewii

wife07mom09 said:

I'll admit I'm very bias.  I teach 8th grade, not 6 year olds, and I'm exhausted from dealing with kids that don't know how to behave and parents that don't respond on top of the 500 other duties of a teacher these days.  That 1st comment, let school handle school, made me sick.  I work in an urban, difficult school, and the students that succeed are the ones who come from supportive homes.  If you're not planning on being involved, don't expect your child to get much out of their education.

Why at 6 years old should a parent not respond to a child's behavior in school?  We're not talking about a 2 year old.  Yes, 27 children in a class is a large class, but that's even more of a reason the teacher needs all of the children's cooperation and attention.  I absolutely think the parents need to at the very least talk to your daughter when she comes home on red and reward her for yellow.  

It may not help with young children, but in the middle school the best way I've seen parents deal with disruptive students is to surprise them in class and sit with them.  It's the best way to show you truly are interested, invested, and holding them to a high standard.

Again, it's really disappointing to see how many of you blame the teacher for setting up a behavior management system.  Teachers are incredibly overworked, but we do everything we need to do to make sure us and the students have a successful day.  I'm pretty sure the only thing she's doing isn't moving children from 1 color to the next.  She's doing that so she can provide them with meaningful lessons, which I'm sure she's spent a great deal of time planning and preparing for as well.

I'm sorry my comment made you " sick" but let me explain further. The children are there to learn. Yes of course parents reinforce and teach and are the primary teachers however I do not feel that a child should be punished again at home for something minor that happened at school if a teacher has already addressed it. The child should not be punished again and berated again. The teacher should handle it in the classroom. Perhaps she needs to adjust her teaching style. Perhaps seat placement. Perhaps moving this child away from distracting peers. Perhaps the child needs some additional coaching I'm not sure but We are talking behavior charts not a serious behavior problem. Now if the child was hitting a student or committing a crime of course the parents need to be involved but that is differebt otherwise I stand by my comment, the teacher needs to manage the behavior in school or seek additional help if she cannot. Does that offer any clarity? Please try to see past your bias of feeling unappreciated and Overworked. Many of us feel that way in our profession as it is not unique to teaching.

I think there's a lot of jumping to conclusions going on here about what people mean by "what happens at school, stays at school" and being an involved parent.  I'm another teacher, just for the record.  I teach ten and eleven year olds, for the record.

The thing is with "what happens in school, stays in school" is what you mean by it. As a teacher, I'm trying to help your child, but it really does work best if parents are involved...though not so involved that they're helicoptering.  That's it's own problem.

The problem with "what happens in school, stays in school" is that some parents decide that means they are completely hands off and it's all the teachers problem. Whether it's grades, behaviour, or whatever.  Also, unfortunately, we see way too many parents like that.

But when I want a parent involved I'm not asking them to punish or berate (for the record, I never berate my kids), but I don't think it's out of line to expect a discussion to happen about why school is important, what the expectations are, and helping the kid come up with ways to avoid that behaviour in the future/offering rewards like some PP mentioned.

Anyway, OP, if it is possible to observe her in class, I think that would be a huge asset.  But I also think an open minded conversation with the teacher could help as well. I always approach conferences with hope to get something out of it.  You might be able to suggest something that will help.

emberlee3

I definitely think behavior charts can be helpful. My niece's kindie teacher used a green-yellow-red chart. That's nice and simple. DS's teacher uses a rainbow chart. IMO, it's too complicated. I sit with him and check his color, but I don't make a big deal about it.

It goes without saying that the moms on this board are involved with their kids. Come on. What people are talking about is that a child should not be punished twice for one offense. Of course, we need to work on social skills and behavior to support school success at home, too. No one was saying not to get involved.