Chart Stalk/Questions—January 2021

keikilove · January 2021

Post your charts & ask your questions here.

keikilove · January 2021

I somewhat selfishly posted this thread because I’d love some thoughts on my chart.

I’ve only ovulated this late one other time in 2+ years of tracking: my usual O date is around CD13. I’ve never had an anovulatory cycle that I’m aware of. Could this be one? Any ideas on whether it’s possible that I ovulated earlier than the OPK is indicating? My cervix was “open for business” on CD14 but then the party was over and cervix was closed on CD17 & CD18 (18 is likely going to get marked as O day). I’m thinking the timing of all my signs & symptoms was off this month because I’d been on BCP and maybe all my hormones are thrown off. (I was put on the pill after an IVF cycle and expected to transfer a frozen embryo this month). Instead AF showed up during the BCP, likely causing all this havoc in my chart.

Also, the huge temp spike is after I got an infusion/med treatment and had a reaction to it for the next 2 days.

Last, we did not actually have great timing. The two Xs represent when we tried but failed to finish. This has been the most awkward FW ever. Saving that for my FFFC.🙄 Thanks in advance for any help!

fitzfizz · January 2021

@keikilove I’m not great with the concepts of cervical position and opening, so I can’t be much help with that. With the temps and OPKs though, I would think you are either ovulating now or haven’t yet. It is possible the med reaction delayed ovulation and also possible it is from the BCP. Do you usually ovulate right after OPK or more like 48 hours? My guess is that when you wake up on CD 19 you would have a temp spike. And if the AM on CD17 was successful then your timing is still good! If you don’t have a spike on CD 19 I would definitely recommend keeping at it. I also think that the temp spike from med reaction is going to throw off FF ability to give you CH. Did you disregard those temps for analysis?

fameonmain2 · January 2021

@keikilove I'm also not good with CP but I've had an an-o and a weird cycle this month so maybe these charts will help you. I was using OPKs for the an-o and I had positives with fertile CM (I thought I charted them but I guess not) but no actual O. For this month's chart I would assume if I were doing OPKs that there would be a + before each of those fake temp shifts.

An-o (ignore the lines, FF is wrong):

Image: https://www.fertilityfriend.com/b_i/s_GvhjYZ.png

Weird cycle this month:

Hope this helps!

inthewoods23 · January 2021

@keikilove I also think you're just about to O. Personally my cycles were on the longer side in the months following no more BC which I was on for 8 years (too bad I didn't know gluten was already my BC haha). My cycles started off averaging 32 days in the first year but since trying naturally again back in May, these months probably average 30 days. And I know different BC affects bodies differently so in addition to getting your period while on BC, I'm sure it's also delaying ovulation a little bit.

keikilove · January 2021

@fitfizz @fameonmain2 @inthewoods23 Thank you all for your input on my chart. It is greatly appreciated. I was sure I’d already ovulated or it was about to get confirmed by high temps the day after posting this, but that didn’t happen. It looks like y’all were right: I guess O was yesterday. We were too exhausted to try to seal the deal, so my best timing will be -5 & -2. 🤷‍♀️ I’m still confused by my cervical position—I just don’t see how we’d be able to conceive if my cervix was closed when I had my LH surge. The little swimmers wouldn’t be able to get through that fortress.😆 Also, my cervix is now high & soft, which usually only happens right before O, but when the cervix is open. This time it didn’t get soft at all before O. Such confusing signs this cycle!

@fitzfizz I do usually ovulate right after a Peak OPK (the next day). But I also usually have at least one day of High temps followed by a Peak day, or a Peak followed by a High. This time I got an equivocal High temp in the morning and then a Peak reading that night, and then negative by the next morning. So even this timing was different than my usual. You’re also right about disregarding the high temps—I can’t get CH at all unless I disregard those. @fameonmain2 Thanks for sharing your charts. Mine doesn’t look quite like your an-o chart so that is helpful for reference. Your second chart looks good to me, not weird.

@inthewoods23 Thanks for your insight about the BCP. I laughed at “gluten is my birth control”. Who could guess?! Anyway, I think I will get high temps going forward and O will be on CD19. Such a long cycle!

fitzfizz · January 2021

I have a question that is kind of at the crossroads of IF and RPL testing, so I’m posting it here to see if anyone from a wider group has experience with this. Has anyone looked much into or had experience with testing for sperm DNA fragmentation?

TW loss

I have had 2 different types of losses, and I am constantly wondering if it is due to the same problem. One we were able to have testing and determine that the problem was due to a single nucleotide mutation that is most likely new (neither of us tested positive for it), so most likely was a mutation in either the single egg or sperm. The other was a CP at 5 weeks, so not able to test anything. It is entirely possible these were due to unrelated reasons, but since most early losses are due to genetic problems with the embryo (either chromosomal or gene mutation), it is possible this was also due to a problem with either the sperm or egg. Of course I am a crazy person so I can’t stop reading about genetic problems and their causes, which led me to reading about sperm DNA fragmentation. I’m wondering if this is our problem, though obviously I have no way to know.

Does anyone have any experience with sperm DNA fragmentation testing? Was it done for IF or RPL reasons? Has anyone talked with a doctor about if there is anything that can be done to improve it?

keikilove · January 2021

@fitzfizz Yes, we’ve done DNA fragmentation testing, both for RPL and for IF. It’s fairly common to run this test for IF to rule out/determine this issue. I’d think your OB can run it if you don’t want to seek out an RE prematurely.
ETA: Not sure how much can be done to improve it. I *think* the usual lifestyle changes are recommended: stop smoking, limit drinking, take beneficial vitamins, etc. I do know that high fragmentation is sometimes caused by the rate at which the man ejaculates. If it is too forceful it can lead to higher fragmentation; I believe the fix for this is to limit the time between ejaculations to no more than 1 day, and/or select the best quality sperm via ICSI during IVF.

acleverusername · January 2021

@fitzfizz we’ve also done DNA frag testing in context of IF. You can order it yourself if your OB or RE won’t order it, but it’s $450.

jackie_dunny · January 2021

Does anyone know what mid-luteal phase spotting could be and if it’s something I should be worried about or should just “ignore” it? I know implantation spotting but I also know I’m not/have not implanted so it’s not that. It’s happened about 3 cycles in a row now. I also know it’s not ovulation because I’ve definitely already ovulated each time (I’ve been tracking my cycles for about 2.5 years now so I know when I ovulate for the most part). It’s also like the teeeeeeniest amount. Only a very small amount when I wipe. Just want to know if anyone else experiences this and/or if it’s something I should be worried about?

Edit: wording

acleverusername · January 2021

@jackie_dunny: that could be a sign of low progesterone. You could try using Proov strips to confirm ovulation. Also, even though it's not FDA approved for testing progesterone levels, lots of ppl use it for that. I was able to get my OB to order a progesterone test based on those tests which led to progesterone supplementation in the luteal phase.

inthewoods23 · January 2021

Just wondering.... what do you consider your indicator that you're officially in your FW? For example, I'm getting some CM now - starting yesterday, CD8. So is this day 1 of FW since there's CM or does it technically not start until the CM is closer to the fertile type? Does that make sense?

My brain decided to have weird questions bounce around in my head today.

jackie_dunny · January 2021

@inthewoods23 according to TCOYF, it’s when you have a “Point of Change” in your CM. So if your dry and you go to sticky or if your sticky and you got to creamy. I personally always go along the FF method and say it’s when I have EWCM or watery CM but some people only have that for like, a day so that’s why it’s the “point of change.” I guess it depends what your CM is typically like. Do you normally get a few days of EWCM?

inthewoods23 · January 2021

@jackie_dunny mmm I'm not super diligent on noting what my CM is. If I do it's a mental note and not marked in FF. I also don't go internally digging for it. I'd guess the fertile kind of CM starts maybe 3-ish days before O? When you say "point of change", is that the very first change? I always start off with nothing or dry kind of CM once AF is over, so does FW start when I get to sticky even though that's not fertile CM? Or is my FW technically shorter because the change from non-fertile type to fertile type happens closer to O?

jackie_dunny · January 2021

@inthewoods23 here’s what she says about the “point of change”

If you have more fertile-type CM for a few days I would personally consider that my fertile window (I usually have about 3-5 days of EWCM). I think the “point of change” is more important to note if you don’t have many days of fertile-type CM. So for example if you go from dry to sticky for 3 days and then only 1 or 2 days of EWCM, I would consider when I start to get sticky/creamy my FW (even though sticky isn’t fertile-type CM). It all depends on what kind of CM you produce really.

inthewoods23 · January 2021

@jackie_dunny can you tell I haven't read the book?

Very interesting. As far as I can tell, mine seems to work its way up from nothing, to sticky or creamy and eventually EW. So I've reached the point of change then eh since I had nothing and now have some CM? and per the book I've entered my FW?

jackie_dunny · January 2021

@inthewoods23 I’m surprised you haven’t! The reason I picked it up is because of how often it’s recommended in this forum! Yeah, if you only have a short amount of time of EWCM, I would say you’re in your FW when you start to get sticky or creamy CM. If you have I’d say at least 3 days of fertile CM, then I’d ignore the point of change thing and just go with the fertile CM.

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