@ziggymama06 - Thanks for the info. My brother lives with my mom in rural Kentucky, so they have to drive 3 hours (each way) for him to get his infusions. Thankfully, he only has to do that every 6 months, but it took a long time and an uphill battle to get him approved for that. The MS Society is amazing. They covered the cost of gas and an overnight hotel stay for him and my mom. That is one charity I will always endorse.
__________________________________________________________________________________________ And on the topic of c-sections, I have another UO, and it is that if I ever get pregnant again and carry to term, I do NOT want a c-section. In fact, I want it written into my birth plan that a c-section is an absolute LAST resort. I've read so many research articles linking c-sections to chronic illnesses. It's due to the babies not being exposed to the good bacteria in the birth canal, and instead being born into an absolutely sterile environment, so it royally f*cks their immune systems. A good book to read on this topic (its primary focus is on gut health, but there is a section on the topic of c-sections & chronic illness) is called Brainmaker: The Power of Gut Microbes to Heal and Protect Your Brain - For Life by Dr. Perlmutter.
@ttcbabyodo why would a c-section be done as anything other than a last resort? I can’t imagine an OB needing a birth plan that specifically states a c/s needing to be medically necessary only.
I’m going to put the rest of this convo in a spoiler as I’ll be talking about my pregnancies.
If a VBAC is what you want, you need to find a VBAC-friendly OB (if yours is currently not). Unless you’re at an unusually high risk of uterine rupture by having a VBAC, vaginal birth should not be something an OB should immediately rule out.
Furthermore — I’ve had 3 c-sections, only one of them planned. If I’m lucky enough to get pregnant again I’ll have a 4th as the amount of scar tissue in my uterus does put me at a higher risk of rupture. And although it’s only anecdotal, my c-section babies are completely, 100% healthy. Please be mindful of where and how you post this research, particularly as it seems the book is written by a neurologist and not someone fluent in the language of obstetrics and child birth. As you must know, there are a lot of sensitive feelings surrounding c-section births and many women are subjected to criticism and derision by people who believe they are not “real” births. I know this is not what you’re saying, but it stings that you’re suggesting my children have been set up for a life of chronic illness due to a birth that was completely out of everyone’s control.
@kmalls - Thank you for your feedback. I never intended to hurt anyone's feelings here whatsoever. And I'm certainly not insinuating that all c-section babies are doomed. I'm just saying that, for me (an active duty military service member) I've seen an increase in c-section births that were not necessary for life of the mother or child, and I simply don't want one for the reasons I listed in my UO.
@ttcbabyodo That is great that the MS Society helped so much and your brother was able to get the infusions he needs. I captain a team for Walk MS every year to fund-raise for the MS Society, it's such a great cause.
Me: 33 DH: 36 Dating 4/2008 Married 6/2016 TTC #1 9/2019 BFP 12/13/2019! EDD 8/27/2020 Baby Girl
Your part hits home with me. A c-section was my absolute last resort too. I had a lot of guilt and shame for having one after DS was born. For more reasons than how my cesarean might affect my child later in life. I appreciate you stance on the topic.
@kmalls I just wanted to come back & acknowledge your comments on the c-section topic. I think it is dead wrong that anyone shames a woman for having a c-section, or the idiotic idea that this somehow means she didn’t give “real” birth to her baby. I am grateful that modern science allows c-sections to take place in circumstances where it’s truly needed.
I also don’t think your children are doomed to anything besides perfect health and happy lives.
The rest in a spoiler just because some may be tired of this topic already, or simply not want to read what could be seen as controversial or argumentative commentary. It’s not intended that way, but to be safe...
These are just my general statements on the topic, not aimed at anyone here: I am totally appalled that cesareans are so highly over-done in our country. In my area there is NO hospital for women who want to try for a VBAC. The hospital simply won’t work with them. These women have to make the choice to fly to our main island & figure out how to be away from their families & live there for awhile until baby decides to make its entrance at the huge women's hospital that allows VBACs, or stay at home & use the local hospital & sign up for a repeat c-section that they don’t want. Clearly, this keeps most of them who want a VBAC from being able to pursue one. This scenario is repeated many many times across the country.
As @ttcbabyodo stated, Research studies definitely do show the benefits of exposure to the birth canal and how it impacts a baby’s immune system. Scientists are working out how to expose babies born via cesarean to these same health benefits. Hopefully they’ll figure it out soon.
The WHO references suggested guidelines for countries to have a c-section rate between 5-15%. The US is more than double that recommendation. Clearly, many many doctors are performing unnecessary sections. Here’s a WHO report if anyone’s interested:
@keikilove thanks for your acknowledgement. It's an extremely sensitive topic for me (clearly) and many other women.
I'm fortunate in that I do not view my childbirth experiences as anything "less than." It is what it is and I feel no shame. I'm also fortunate that I go to a very VBAC-friendly practice and they let me make my own decisions. I completely understand this is not reality for every single person out there.
I still bristle, though, at conversations about c-sections that aren't necessarily nuanced. Avoiding a c-section should be everyone's goal, but to come in and state babies' immune systems are "royally fucked" without ALSO talking about how necessary many c-sections are only adds to the stigma and fear regarding this method of birth. There are already enough fears surrounding TTC, pregnancy and childbirth, and I'd hate for anyone to walk away from this conversation thinking they might somehow set their future children up for a lifetime of illness if they end up with a c-section. It's a delicate conversation that I believe warrants the inclusion of many different experiences.
@ttcbabyodo I just wanted to put out there - Part of the increase in C sections and complications is due to the decrease in care in the US. Maternal morbidity and mortality rates are sky rocketing. Putting the rest in a TW because it mentions my previous pregnancy and birth
I had a C section - because it turned out the doctors missed a heart condition in me through out my pregnancy. It took nearly TWO YEARS post partum for the doctors to admit there was a problem and treat it. Instead of aggressively attempting to help, I was dismissed as a "crazy pregnant / hormonal post partum" woman. I nearly died. More than once. I had to be rushed to a crash C section, coded on the table from my heart rate plummeting. Nearly died from a post op infection. Nearly died from a stroke a year later.
All that to say - A c-section at the end of the day isn't about YOU. It's about your team of doctors and their ability to get you and your child through alive without one. And unfortunately, until we have better pre and post natal care, and better emphasis on evidence based medicine within OBYGN practices - A "last resort" C section will be way to common - As will women who end up with life long issues stemming from pregnancy / birth and women who DON'T make it out the otherside. I am one, and was almost the other.
So yes, it's a problem, but look deeper. The C section rate isn't a cause - it's a symptom.
I had to push for mine, no pun intended. I was only at an 8 after almost two days of labor and my son’s head was stuck. The OB said she’d come back in an hour and it was 3. She only came after I was screaming that his head was trying to come and it felt like my pelvis was going to break. They knocked me out, cut me open, and he wasn’t breathing. He could have died if they let it go any longer. 43 hours after my induction started, he was born. Two hours later I got to meet him. It was an extremely traumatic birth / pregnancy and I am going straight for a CS again due to likely cephalopelvic disproportion and my blood disorder medication causing massive swelling if I have a lot of fluids.
It's funny how it's the little things in life that mean the most...not where you live, or what you drive, or the price tag on your clothes... There's no dollar sign on a piece of mind, this I've come to know! *ZBB*
Re: UO Thursday 11/7
*TW*
Married: 09/16
TTC #1 08/18
~2019~
IUI #1 #2 #3 with letrozole cancelled
Natural cycle IUI #4 10/19 BFN
First RE visit 11/19
Clomid 50mg + IUI#5 11/19 BFN
Elevated prolactin dx confirmed 11/19
Clomid 50mg + IUI#6 cancelled
~2020~
IVF #1 ICSI+PGT-A 02/20
32R 19M 14F 7B 7 PGT-A normal
Hysteroscopy to remove polyps 3/20
FET 05/20 BFP! beta #1 9dp6dt 443.8; beta #2 11dp6dt 1212
Baby has a heartbeat! 6w5d HB 128
__________________________________________________________________________________________
And on the topic of c-sections, I have another UO, and it is that if I ever get pregnant again and carry to term, I do NOT want a c-section. In fact, I want it written into my birth plan that a c-section is an absolute LAST resort. I've read so many research articles linking c-sections to chronic illnesses. It's due to the babies not being exposed to the good bacteria in the birth canal, and instead being born into an absolutely sterile environment, so it royally f*cks their immune systems. A good book to read on this topic (its primary focus is on gut health, but there is a section on the topic of c-sections & chronic illness) is called Brainmaker: The Power of Gut Microbes to Heal and Protect Your Brain - For Life by Dr. Perlmutter.
Due with baby #2: Feb 2022
I’m going to put the rest of this convo in a spoiler as I’ll be talking about my pregnancies.
Furthermore — I’ve had 3 c-sections, only one of them planned. If I’m lucky enough to get pregnant again I’ll have a 4th as the amount of scar tissue in my uterus does put me at a higher risk of rupture. And although it’s only anecdotal, my c-section babies are completely, 100% healthy. Please be mindful of where and how you post this research, particularly as it seems the book is written by a neurologist and not someone fluent in the language of obstetrics and child birth. As you must know, there are a lot of sensitive feelings surrounding c-section births and many women are subjected to criticism and derision by people who believe they are not “real” births. I know this is not what you’re saying, but it stings that you’re suggesting my children have been set up for a life of chronic illness due to a birth that was completely out of everyone’s control.
Due with baby #2: Feb 2022
Dating 4/2008
Married 6/2016
TTC #1 9/2019
BFP 12/13/2019!
EDD 8/27/2020 Baby Girl
@kmalls TW:
The rest in a spoiler just because some may be tired of this topic already, or simply not want to read what could be seen as controversial or argumentative commentary. It’s not intended that way, but to be safe...
As @ttcbabyodo stated, Research studies definitely do show the benefits of exposure to the birth canal and how it impacts a baby’s immune system. Scientists are working out how to expose babies born via cesarean to these same health benefits. Hopefully they’ll figure it out soon.
The WHO references suggested guidelines for countries to have a c-section rate between 5-15%. The US is more than double that recommendation. Clearly, many many doctors are performing unnecessary sections. Here’s a WHO report if anyone’s interested:
https://www.who.int/bulletin/volumes/91/12/13-117598/en/
I still bristle, though, at conversations about c-sections that aren't necessarily nuanced. Avoiding a c-section should be everyone's goal, but to come in and state babies' immune systems are "royally fucked" without ALSO talking about how necessary many c-sections are only adds to the stigma and fear regarding this method of birth. There are already enough fears surrounding TTC, pregnancy and childbirth, and I'd hate for anyone to walk away from this conversation thinking they might somehow set their future children up for a lifetime of illness if they end up with a c-section. It's a delicate conversation that I believe warrants the inclusion of many different experiences.
Putting the rest in a TW because it mentions my previous pregnancy and birth
All that to say - A c-section at the end of the day isn't about YOU. It's about your team of doctors and their ability to get you and your child through alive without one. And unfortunately, until we have better pre and post natal care, and better emphasis on evidence based medicine within OBYGN practices - A "last resort" C section will be way to common - As will women who end up with life long issues stemming from pregnancy / birth and women who DON'T make it out the otherside. I am one, and was almost the other.
So yes, it's a problem, but look deeper. The C section rate isn't a cause - it's a symptom.
TTC 9/2016 BFP 12/9/16 EDD 8/21/17 NMC 1/8/16 at 7w6d
TTC 2/2017 BFP 3/6/17 EDD 11/17/17 DS born 11/25/17 via ECS
TTC 12/2018 BFP 6/2/19 EDD 2/12/20 NMC / BO at 7 weeks, low progesterone
TTC 7/2019 BFP 8/21/19 EDD 4/22/20 CP at 5 weeks
TTC 8/19 IUI #1 w/ Clomid + Ovidrel + progesterone BFN, IUI 2 and 3 w/ Letrozole + Ovidrel + progesterone,
IUI 4 Follistim + Ovidrel + progesterone BFP 1/9/20 EDD 9/18/20
AMA, ITP in pregnancy, vWD type II - low Factor VIII, unexplained RPL and secondary infertility