OT- Making a Murderer

eatinwatermelonseeds · November 2018

Okay. I have to talk about this.

eatinwatermelonseeds · November 2018

So. I'm only on episode 6 on season 1 but HOLY SHIT. I just don't get it. So the roommate doesn't report her missing for days. The ex boyfriend magically figures out her password for her phone records. There are missing voicemails... Who's to say he didn't know that password, too? That he didn't delete them? And why TF wouldn't Steven Avery dispose of the vehicle? Or fucking hide it better. He had such a huge lot AND A CAR CRUSHER why tf would he just put it to the side where it could easily be found. And then why did the roommate tell the lady to go look there and hand ONLY HER a fucking camera? Why is there no blood anywhere? Except for the shit that came from evidence 😳 I'm just...wtf am I watching?

troystory17 · November 2018

I just finished season two it’s mind blowing. I really have no other words because I truly don’t get it either.

siouxieq87 · November 2018

I watched that a couple years ago. Rage is the only word for what I felt.

imrachellea · November 2018

We watched season one a while ago and tried staying season two lay last but the first episode want as interesting as season one. They whole thing happened *super* close to a friend in my old BMB, she told us she remembered when it was all actually going down.

troystory17 · November 2018

I thought season 2 was pretty good his lawyer finds a good amount of new evidence and points to who she thinks it could be. I don’t know, if she can’t get him out nobody will. I feel so bad for his parents 😕 and Theresa’s of course.

eatinwatermelonseeds · November 2018

I honestly had a hard time getting into the show, which is why I'm so late to the game but I'm just in awe. It just seems so clear to me that he's being set up again. And they have a very clear motive to do so. Plus the guy who was like "don't you think it'd be easier to kill him than put him in prison again?" WHAT

DressageDarling · November 2018

We are slowly making our way through season 2. I always feel so awful for Brendan. Being only 16 when they got that “confession” from him. So awful.

bodziochl · November 2018

Dirty delete...i signed in under my old name by accident

sleepy33 · November 2018

I am not done with season 2 yet, so I'm skimming so I don't get spoilers, but KATHLEEN ZELLNER IS MY FRIGGIN SPIRIT ANIMAL

elliebo · November 2018

The whole thing is total garbage. I’ve watched both seasons and I don’t think either of those men are guilty, but even if they were there was not enough evidence at all on which to convict them

troystory17 · November 2018

yes! Kathleen is great. Brenden clearly had no idea what happened and was just saying whatever the cop led him to. That Ken Kratz guy makes my blood boil

merrylea · November 2018

So. I grew up in the area that this happened, and was living in the area of the time of the murder. The calumet co sheriff who took over the case actually used to babysit me as a child.

I have to say, this is not a documentary. They left out many key facts. They want you to feel a certain way. There is a reason that a number of judges have looked at this case, and these two are still in jail.

laeberge3 · November 2018

I go back and forth on MAM. At first, I was outraged that either were convicted. Brendan's conviction still seems terrible to me and that confession was clearly coached. But, I know MAM left out a lot of evidence that was used to convict. I don't think it went down like the prosecutor said it did during the trial, but I'm not confident he's innocent either. What I don't get is why the police department would feel the need to frame him and plant evidence if that happened? I know they say his lawsuit for his previous conviction being overturned was pending, but the documentary acts like he was entitled to $30+ million - instead, he was just asking for that. And surely the county has insurance for these things. I don't know - there's my very jumbled thoughts as I make my way through Season 2.

sleepy33 · November 2018

@laeberge3 The county's insurance company had already declared they would not pay out in this case, likely due to negligence by the department. So the county was going to be liable on it's own. I have an acquaintance whose husband was exonerated by the Innocence Project and the local county and city here in Kansas that wrongfully convicted him had to pay out $7.5 million, and he was only imprisoned for 9 years.

laeberge3 · November 2018

@sleepy33 Thanks! I must have overlooked that discussion -- makes more sense now.

sleepy33 · November 2018

@laeberge3 They didn't make much of it, but I remember it was mentioned in S1 when they were talking about what all was on the line when they started taking depositions for the civil suit.

The thing that made/makes me so furious about this case is that they clearly, CLEARLY had plenty of reasonable doubt for Steve. They said the original vote of the jurors was 7-3 in favor of not guilty. Which means those 3 hold outs did not listen to the instruction on burden/standard. They did not say, if even one reasonable doubt exists we cannot convict. They said well, the defense failed to convince me beyond a shadow of a doubt that he DIDN'T do it, so I'm gonna send him away. That's not how our legal system is supposed to work. The bias is supposed to presume Steve is innocent, not the other way around. People lack humility and an understanding of how deeply flawed our justice system can be, and put blind faith in the prosecutors and police when they ought to have a healthy skepticism.

missmcgonnagal · November 2018

If you're into this docu-drama (that's what it is, don't think for one second it's anything else) PLEASE do some further research. Steven Avery is not this sweet country bumpkin targeted for no reason whatsoever by a malicious police force.

There have been previous allegations of domestic abuse against him.
That whole thing about him accidentally burning a cat alive is false -- the actual crime for which he was convicted had him voluntarily pouring gasoline on the cat and then tossing it in the fire. It wasn't some whoopsie-daisy as he portrayed it in the film.
Avery's DNA found in Halbach's car is not JUST blood DNA, but also from a non-blood source such as saliva or sweat. This means that it's much harder to plant.
The blood vial that the planted blood-DNA supposedly came from had a hole in the top of it, which was shown to be made by the nurses during routine use of the vial.
The bullet with the victim's DNA on it was shown by ballistics to have been fired from Avery's weapon.
The contents of Halbach's purse were found in a burn barrel just outside of Avery's house.

There's a lot of cases out there that are severely mishandled that deserve attention. The West Memphis Three comes to mind immediately for me. In Avery's case, the directors/producers were already interested in a man who was wrongfully convicted, so when he was tried again following Halbach's death it was in their best interest to continue the narrative. "Innocent man wrongfully convicted twice" sells way better than "man who didn't do this crime turned around and did this one instead."

sleepy33 · November 2018

@missmcgonnagal have you watched S2? Their only proof that the DNA on the hood latch didn't come from blood was that the swab 'didn't look bloody'. They did not test for the source of the DNA...

DressageDarling · November 2018

sleepy33 said:

I am not done with season 2 yet, so I'm skimming so I don't get spoilers, but KATHLEEN ZELLNER IS MY FRIGGIN SPIRIT ANIMAL

I told DH that I wanted to be her when I grow up 😂

ibanezstarburst · November 2018

I'm currently working on season 2 and I really dont kbiw what I truly think. I'm undecided on if Steven Avery is guilty or innocent. I dont think Brendan had anything to do with it. Regardless of the truth and what I think or dont think happened there were definitely some serious flaws in how their cases were handled.

kaycald · November 2018

I think it was Brendan's brother, Bobby. Did you see his search history?

And how did the ex-boyfriend get Teresa's day planner?

thebobloblaw · November 2018

I don’t care so much about Stevens case, as I don’t fall more one way or another on if I think he’s guilty or not. I don’t think Steven Avery is a good person like they try to make him out to look. But brendens case to me is so clearly wrong and it infuriates me how wrong I believe they got it and how judges aren’t seeing that.

I do think bobby has something to do with it, the search history on the computer is such a blatant red flag imo. What I don’t understand is where they think the step dad ties into it other than the car being spotted “near” his property. Like Bobby couldn’t have been there without the step dad? I don’t get it and unless I missed something didn’t seem like they had anything to tie him into the timeline.

sleepy33 · November 2018

@thebobloblaw by the stepdad, do you mean Scott? It pissed me off so bad how he testified against Steve and bad mouthed him to the press, only because HELLO, if you're saying that shit it is tantamount to you saying you think your stepson did it!!! Keep your mouth shut, bro.

thebobloblaw · November 2018

@sleepy33 ahh I guess I don’t remember that part very well. He seems like a shitty person too, I just don’t see how he plays into being a suspect in Zellner’s theory. I could see more Steven AND Bobby being the guilty parties.

sleepy33 · November 2018

thebobloblaw said:

@sleepy33 ahh I guess I don’t remember that part very well. He seems like a shitty person too, I just don’t see how he plays into being a suspect in Zellner’s theory. I could see more Steven AND Bobby being the guilty parties.

He took the stand and testified to seeing the bonfire and said the flames were 10 ft high, then the defense read from his police statement where he said the flames were 3 feet high. After the verdict, I remember he told the reporters that Steve got what was coming to him, etc. I mean, I get he was angry, but it's in his kid's best interest that Steve *not* be guilty.

MelissaMay82 · November 2018

I am on episode 8 of season 1, such a good documentary. I have so many questions! It seems like Steve Avery is innocent but I know that the producers/film-makers can make it look like that. But a lot of the evidence just seems so shady. Teresa's ex-boyfriend and roommate seems shady to me, why did the roommate not report her missing for several days? And why did the ex-boyfriend only give a camera to the mother and daughter who were going to search the salvage yard. How did the ex-boyfriend "guess" her VM code and why was the VM full and then suddenly not? Also when Teresa's boss testified, he mentioned that a phone number kept calling her, who was that and why were her phone records not examined for that phone number? During the investigation and searches, why were any Manitowoc Country Sheriffs even allowed on the property after they handed the investigation over to Calumet. It also seems interesting that the Manitowoc Country Sheriffs were the ones who found the key several days after the search began (and there was not key in the location during previous searches) and then the bullet in the garage during the March search. Also, if Teresa was shot in the head, where is all the blood? It seems like there was none of her blood or DNA found in Steven's house or garage. I can't believe that the jury could come back with a guilty verdict with all of these weird holes in evidence. I can't wait to watch the last two episodes and see what happens to Brendan, which I think is total BS that it is even going to court because he changed his story so many times.

My friend told me to watch It Was Him on Amazon Prime when I was done with season 1.
Wayne Wolfe recently discovered that his grandfather, Ed Edwards, was a convicted serial killer. His research led him to veteran detective John Cameron. Together, they seek justice not only for the wrongfully convicted but the families of the victims.
I will probably watch the whole season, but it looks like episode 4 A Double Life is the one about Steve Avery:
Edwards was a successful family man who preached about being a reformed criminal, but was a murderous conman, who may have killed union leader Jimmy Hoffa in 1975 and framed Steven Avery for the murder of Teresa Halbach in 2002.

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