DH is in nesting mode so he asked me what he could clean lol I told him to do the living room ceiling fan, which has transitioned into him spot painting the ceiling. This is after he dragged the broken washing machine to the curb and hauled in the one from the garage. I'm sitting 5 feet away at my desk eating fried chicken and pickles and bumping. Absolutely don't feel guilty at all!
@MouseMama817 you’re in good company. earlier i was eating an eclair while dh was doing yardwork. pretty sure he’s still out there and i’m laying down in bed now.
@MouseMama817 don’t feel guilty! You deserve a break! And fried chicken and pickles sounds delicious!
Might get some flames but
Had DD in the car yesterday morning when I went to pick up a salad at Chopt that had been ordered and prepaid. Parked right in front and just had to grab it. The only reason I unbuckled her and brought her with me into the store was fear of people seeing/judging/calling the authorities. Otherwise, I would have felt totally comfortably leaving her in the car for the less than 90 seconds it would take to complete the errand. Really wouldn’t be afraid of her overheating, or being kidnapped but definitely afraid of people’s judgment, and that’s why I brought her in.
@lifesabeach85 I get it. It can feel silly to have to go through the car seat rigamarole to dash in to a place. I feel like the only other options are to leave the car on with the AC running, in which case I’m legit nervous of someone jumping in and kidnapping my baby, or to lock the car and take the keys, in which case I’m scared of being on the news. My parents would leave me in the car allllll the time. Maybe not as an infant, but maybe lol. People nowadays are too crazy and/or nosey. Moms can’t win either way anymore.
So many people in my FB feed have been posting the original set of pictures. As soon as I saw the “ alternative immunization schedule” and “ we slept in unsafe conditions in a crib” I couldn’t jump on board with gushing about how amazing the original pictures post is.
There’s nothing shaming about informing people about the need for vaccinations and the need for safe sleeping conditions for babies.
Formula feeding or breastfeeding isn’t a public health hazard so judging someone about how they feed your baby can be considering “shaming”.
Not vaccinating your child is a public health issue and having strong feelings about people who are anti-vax & anti-science & pro-putting other people’s health at risk (immune compromised, newborns, etc) is not shaming at all.
Definitely lounging on the couch, snuggling dd while MH cleans the kitchen from the breakfast he made me
@booksandcoffee totally agree. While I love the idea behind the anti mom shaming photo shoot, I definitely cringed at a few of them. We’re all just trying to do our best, but blatantly ignoring facts and scientific evidence is not something I will ever get on board with. Some of those are simply non negotiable.
re:article— i will go up to bat for bed sharing. today will probably be a busy day, so i might not be able to respond to everything right away, do bear with me.
my opinion is that the aap is right in their recommendations for safe sleep practices. but, sometimes right does not equal realistic or practical for everyone.
a parent who is awake all night trying to soothe a crying baby who does not want to sleep by themselves laying flat in a crib is a overtired parent. an overtired parent is a danger to their baby, and also to those around them if they’re doing something like driving a vehicle.
yes, there are documented risk factors to sleeping with your baby, but many of these risks can be mitigated or diminished greatly if you follow some guidelines. don’t sleep with your baby: if you smoke, do drugs, or have been drinking. have a medical condition that causes you to sleep deeply. if you have a blanket or pillow on the same surface. if you are anywhere other than a bed, especially a couch or recliner. if the baby will be next to someone else, even dad. the risks are lower if you breast feed.
i don’t want to bed share. i’d be much happier for a unicorn baby/babies who takes to the crib, in their own room, and sleeps for 4+ hour spurts right away. but i didn’t get one of those... i got a baby who screamed from 5pm until midnight every night no matter what, slept for 45m spurts if i was lucky and only if right next to me in a bassinet with my pinky in her mouth, and had to be fed every 2 hours. i accidentally fell asleep one night on the couch with her during a feeding. after that, i knew what i was doing wasn’t working so i did the bed sharing research and started that. and EVERYONE’S sleep improved immediately and for many weeks after. i didn’t want to bed share, but i did, and i would again if i need to.
co-sleeping and bed sharing is definitely my “do what you need to do to survive, no judgement from me” ride or die topic. empathy does that. little sleep for days, weeks in a row suuuuuccckkkkssss.
@highsteaks But there's a difference between safe sleeping conditions for baby when co sleeping and those who just throw baby in their bed and don't research it or do it correctly. I won't judge anyone for co sleeping, as long as they do it safely, you know? It's clear that you researched the hell out of it and did it safely, so I don't think anyone will judge you for that! One of the things I saw in the photo shoot PPs mentioned was one that said "we slept in cribs with bumpers and sleeping aids" or something like that, and I think we all know that's proven not to be safe. I'm personally more concerned with that than co sleeping.
Yes @offtoneverland, exactly. @highsteaks I have coslept on and off with both my kids safely after (lots of) research and am all about Survival Mode when it comes to sleep. I was referencing the picture with the kids holding a sign that said “ we slept in cribs with sleep positioners and bumpers and blankets” - things we know to be unsafe for little babies. I also think people who don’t research cosleeping but just throw (not literally) the baby in bed with them don’t understand how dangerous it can be if you haven’t researched it beforehand.
Definitely lounging on the couch, snuggling dd while MH cleans the kitchen from the breakfast he made me
@booksandcoffee totally agree. While I love the idea behind the anti mom shaming photo shoot, I definitely cringed at a few of them. We’re all just trying to do our best, but blatantly ignoring facts and scientific evidence is not something I will ever get on board with. Some of those are simply non negotiable.
Yes. I wish they hadn’t associated shaming with ignoring facts/science. I will never be on board with anti-vax hysterics, people who ignore car seat safety, etc.
@highsteaks that one I agree on! Yes, we all know the safe sleep recommendations, but there are safe ways to co sleep. I had to bedshare for months bc its the only way my dd would sleep. I didn’t like the thought of it, it made me incredibly nervous, but we did all sleep better for awhile. Not using fluffy pillows or blankets, specific positioning, it can be done safely.
I definitely feel like there’s a difference between bed sharing when you are in survival mode (also doing it safely as possible), and promoting it as a completely safe option...or a good option that is sustainable for the long run. Recently there was a women in a FB group that I’m in who was really into attachment style parenting. She was returning to work and was bummed because she felt she no longer could fully attachment parent. Another women suggested that she stop putting her baby in his/her crib at night, and start bedsharing instead, so that they could cuddle and bond at night. The poster said she would give it a try. Not only is this bad advice because of safety, but it is forming terrible sleep habits. This was in a crunchy group I’m in, so I knew I’d get attacked if I suggested this was a bad suggestion because of safety and because this would likely become a long term habit that would be very hard to break.
the article writer only references the photo series to get to these generalizations:
“The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) reports, “Approximately 3,500 infants die annually in the United States from sleep-related deaths, including sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS); ill-defined deaths; and accidental suffocation and strangulation.” This staggering statistic indicates that safe sleep practices are vital, not simply preference.
The AAP recommends ways to create a safe sleep environment, including: ... • Share a bedroom with parents, but not the same sleeping surface. ... While some families might know these risks and choose to ignore them, it isn’t something to be promoted or celebrated. It shouldn’t be brushed off as an equal parenting choice like most parenting choices.” it felt like a hard stance on right and wrong. there is a problem with making alternative sleeping practices taboo, in that it creates an environment where parents feel alone or ashamed to discuss their sleeping practices with others including their pediatrician which thereby cuts off the conversation on ways to improve it. a conservative pediatrician, or one wary of being sued in the event of a tragedy, will parrot the aap and leave it at that. but we need to make allowances for cases in which unsafe sleep is unfortunately necessary for the overall health of the family. i can’t speak on behalf of the bumper, blanket, sleep positioner using parents out there. but i will use the rock n play as an example. the aap and even fisher price discourages the use of this baby device for unsupervised sleeping... yet we see many btdt moms who still recommend it because it helps. the same goes for mamaroos, swings, bouncers, car seats, etc.. when we find something that helps the baby sleep, we utilize it, even if it’s officially unsafe. isn’t that a contradiction?
I think the key there is that we still have no idea what truly causes SIDS. The research all contradicts each other. So it’s tough to claim hard evidence in the statistics when no one has really figured out the true cause, only risk factors. The suffocation is easily identified and definitely a terrifying thought.
I definitely used our RNP exclusively when DD was an infant. She never slept a wink in the PNP newborn bassinet thing. I’m also convinced this is why we had zero spit up or reflux issues, because of the slight incline of the RNP. I did it as safely as possible, without blankets or stuffed toys. I plan on doing the same with this baby if she doesn’t like the new bassinet we have.
@emjohn517 agreed. and i will say that i am surprised that someone unabashedly and unremorsefully bragged on the internet that they used bumpers and blankets and everything ended up fine, when the research is very overwhelmingly clear that those items significantly increased the risk of suffocation related infant death. plus i’ve never heard of a compelling reason to use those items that couldn’t be better remedied with something else like an approved swaddle. but i don’t equate that scenario with sids; i thought sids was only used to describe a sudden unexpected death with no known cause. it’s unfair to lump willful negligence together with sids research to intimidate someone into following every recommendation. that’s where i find fault.
my opinion is that the aap is right in their recommendations for safe sleep practices. but, sometimes right does not equal realistic or practical for everyone.
co-sleeping and bed sharing is definitely my “do what you need to do to survive, no judgement from me” ride or die topic. empathy does that. little sleep for days, weeks in a row
Totally agree! I was much judgier about people’s sleep choices for their family before DD arrived and then just flat out refused to sleep like she was supposed to according to the aap. Like @MouseMama817, we got a RnP and she slept a looooooot better (still not great though). She went into a crib in her own room at 4.5m. We also did some CIO to make that transition successful and I would definitely do it again. And then she did become a champ sleeper. I now believe that you have to do what works for your family and your baby.
The new guideline (I don’t even think it was this extreme three years ago) that the baby should be in your room for a year threw me for a loop. That sounds impractical for a lot of reasons. You would have to have a full crib in your room. Most bassinets and other newborn infant sleep surfaces really aren’t safe once babies can sit up and DD sat assisted at 4m and unassisted before 6m. All three of us slept so so so much better when she went into her own room. I know a lot of people happily keep their kids in their room or their bed for a year or years, but others put their baby in their own crib in their own room day 1 and I don’t think anything is “wrong” with either.
Re - people saying “I grew up this way and I’m fine” is such a weird argument! I read the comments section (don’t ask me why) about smoking during pregnancy and there were actually women today in 2018 defending their choice to smoke while pregnant because their mom/grandma smoked or people smoked around them back in the day and they’re fine. Really? Really???
I haven’t seen that post circulate yet, but I can’t get on board with the whole my baby slept in a crib with bumpers and was fine deal. We all know that isn’t safe and shouldn’t be lumped into a Mom-shaming category. It’s a flat out bad idea. And car seat safety and anti-vax are other tough one to argue with in my book. I don’t understand the need to turn a car seat around early and not vaccinating is a whole other level.
@highsteaks I coslept with my daughter after doing as much research as I possibly could. We were exhausted. She hated the crib, rnp, swing, everything. The only way she wanted to sleep was on my chest. We finally found some sleep using a side lying nursing system. With DS, he slept in a dockatot. This go round, baby will be in our room but I’m praying will stay in the bassinet we bought. I do think Co-sleeping can be done safely and it truly is the only option in some cases.
@lifesabeach85 I’m very confused on that new guideline as well. A whole year is a long time. We transitioned to the crib at 6mo and omg, it was like a light bulb went off! She slept so much better alone. And you’re right on the bassinets, they outgrow them fairly quick.
I haven’t seen that post circulate yet, but I can’t get on board with the whole my baby slept in a crib with bumpers and was fine deal. We all know that isn’t safe and shouldn’t be lumped into a Mom-shaming category. It’s a flat out bad idea. And car seat safety and anti-vax are other tough one to argue with in my book. I don’t understand the need to turn a car seat around early and not vaccinating is a whole other level.
@BabyBoyH92016 i missed your comment earlier, but i caught it now. that would make me scratch my head. why would you want to go from everyone peacefully sleeping independently to bed sharing for the sake of “quality time” together. i love my kid, but that dedication does not compute. i was so relieved when she started sleeping by herself. i’m not holding my breath for any mother of the year award.
@highsteaks I think this is a huge crapshoot of parenting lol. Different studies, depending on who is performing them, will of course lead to different outcomes and alter statistics. I actually agree on the NPR article, and I appreciate that it takes Moms sleep into consideration, because PPD can absolutely be amplified by lack of sleep. And of course, ultimately moms health is better for baby, no matter how you spin it. I think another factor we have to consider is that statistics in this area will always be skewed, because so many parents don’t actually admit to their unsafe sleep habits, or go against the grain when telling their pediatrician about sleep habits for fear of shaming and judgement. So unfortunately getting accurate numbers is, well, a crapshoot. My then pediatrician, at my DDs 2 month apt actually suggested I start transitioning to the crib in her own room! I questioned that and knew she was nowhere near ready by that point. But it’s amazing how many different expert opinions there are on this particular subject.
There’s a conversation about bumpers and pillows for babies under 1 going on in my local mom group because a mom asked for opinion since her 7 month old keeps rolling over and hitting her head on the crib slats (which doesn’t bother the baby, and baby has been STTN just fine), and mom feels like baby needs a soft place to rest her head. A few people cited the AAP adage sleep guidelines, but all the other moms are all “you do you” and “we used bumpers/pillows/blankets and our kids are just fine!” I 100% judge those people - you have the safe sleep guidelines and are ignoring them for basically no reason - it’s not like you’re going against advice for the sake of not being sleep deprived and needing sleep for both of you (like using a RnP or cosleeping or whatever).
The new guideline (I don’t even think it was this extreme three years ago) that the baby should be in your room for a year threw me for a loop. That sounds impractical for a lot of reasons. You would have to have a full crib in your room. Most bassinets and other newborn infant sleep surfaces really aren’t safe once babies can sit up and DD sat assisted at 4m and unassisted before 6m. All three of us slept so so so much better when she went into her own room. I know a lot of people happily keep their kids in their room or their bed for a year or years, but others put their baby in their own crib in their own room day 1 and I don’t think anything is “wrong” with either.
What in the hell, is this actually the new guideline??
@MouseMama817 doesn’t that seem crazy?! Yes that’s the new guideline, but I really can’t imagine how to correctly do that without bedsharing or just creating unhealthy sleeping habits in general.
@emjohn517 It does seem a little unrealistic. I remember taking DD on vacation at that age and sharing a room with her in her PNP. She would not sleep AT ALL because she knew we were in the room and just wanted to hang out with us. I was so exhausted that week, it was actually physically painful. It’s tough even in the beginning with all of the grunting they make in their sleep. And like someone else said, you’d need a full-sized crib in your bedroom pretty soon.
Re: FFFC
Might get some flames but
Had DD in the car yesterday morning when I went to pick up a salad at Chopt that had been ordered and prepaid. Parked right in front and just had to grab it. The only reason I unbuckled her and brought her with me into the store was fear of people seeing/judging/calling the authorities. Otherwise, I would have felt totally comfortably leaving her in the car for the less than 90 seconds it would take to complete the errand. Really wouldn’t be afraid of her overheating, or being kidnapped but definitely afraid of people’s judgment, and that’s why I brought her in.
https://www.sammichespsychmeds.com/why-that-viral-anti-mom-shaming-photo-series-gets-a-couple-things-wrong/
So many people in my FB feed have been posting the original set of pictures. As soon as I saw the “ alternative immunization schedule” and “ we slept in unsafe conditions in a crib” I couldn’t jump on board with gushing about how amazing the original pictures post is.
There’s nothing shaming about informing people about the need for vaccinations and the need for safe sleeping conditions for babies.
Formula feeding or breastfeeding isn’t a public health hazard so judging someone about how they feed your baby can be considering “shaming”.
Not vaccinating your child is a public health issue and having strong feelings about people who are anti-vax & anti-science & pro-putting other people’s health at risk (immune compromised, newborns, etc) is not shaming at all.
@booksandcoffee totally agree. While I love the idea behind the anti mom shaming photo shoot, I definitely cringed at a few of them. We’re all just trying to do our best, but blatantly ignoring facts and scientific evidence is not something I will ever get on board with. Some of those are simply non negotiable.
my opinion is that the aap is right in their recommendations for safe sleep practices. but, sometimes right does not equal realistic or practical for everyone.
a parent who is awake all night trying to soothe a crying baby who does not want to sleep by themselves laying flat in a crib is a overtired parent. an overtired parent is a danger to their baby, and also to those around them if they’re doing something like driving a vehicle.
yes, there are documented risk factors to sleeping with your baby, but many of these risks can be mitigated or diminished greatly if you follow some guidelines.
don’t sleep with your baby: if you smoke, do drugs, or have been drinking. have a medical condition that causes you to sleep deeply. if you have a blanket or pillow on the same surface. if you are anywhere other than a bed, especially a couch or recliner. if the baby will be next to someone else, even dad.
the risks are lower if you breast feed.
i don’t want to bed share. i’d be much happier for a unicorn baby/babies who takes to the crib, in their own room, and sleeps for 4+ hour spurts right away. but i didn’t get one of those... i got a baby who screamed from 5pm until midnight every night no matter what, slept for 45m spurts if i was lucky and only if right next to me in a bassinet with my pinky in her mouth, and had to be fed every 2 hours. i accidentally fell asleep one night on the couch with her during a feeding. after that, i knew what i was doing wasn’t working so i did the bed sharing research and started that. and EVERYONE’S sleep improved immediately and for many weeks after. i didn’t want to bed share, but i did, and i would again if i need to.
the unicef website has a great compilation of current research about bed sharing that puts risks vs rewards in context—
https://www.unicef.org.uk/babyfriendly/news-and-research/baby-friendly-research/infant-health-research/infant-health-research-bed-sharing-infant-sleep-and-sids/
and here’s a great npr article that i book marked some time ago—
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2016/10/25/499290404/new-guidelines-acknowledge-the-reality-babies-do-sleep-in-moms-bed
co-sleeping and bed sharing is definitely my “do what you need to do to survive, no judgement from me” ride or die topic. empathy does that. little sleep for days, weeks in a row suuuuuccckkkkssss.
One of the things I saw in the photo shoot PPs mentioned was one that said "we slept in cribs with bumpers and sleeping aids" or something like that, and I think we all know that's proven not to be safe. I'm personally more concerned with that than co sleeping.
DD1: 8/2014
TTC #2: 6/2017
BFP 8/3/2017 | CP 8/4
BFP 10/16/2017 | CP 10/21
BFP 12/18/2017 | CP 12/28
BFP 2/15/2018 | EDD: November 2nd | It's a girl!
DD2: 10/2018
Yes. I wish they hadn’t associated shaming with ignoring facts/science. I will never be on board with anti-vax hysterics, people who ignore car seat safety, etc.
the article writer only references the photo series to get to these generalizations:
“The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) reports, “Approximately 3,500 infants die annually in the United States from sleep-related deaths, including sudden infant death syndrome (SIDS); ill-defined deaths; and accidental suffocation and strangulation.” This staggering statistic indicates that safe sleep practices are vital, not simply preference.
The AAP recommends ways to create a safe sleep environment, including:
...
• Share a bedroom with parents, but not the same sleeping surface.
...
While some families might know these risks and choose to ignore them, it isn’t something to be promoted or celebrated. It shouldn’t be brushed off as an equal parenting choice like most parenting choices.”
it felt like a hard stance on right and wrong.
there is a problem with making alternative sleeping practices taboo, in that it creates an environment where parents feel alone or ashamed to discuss their sleeping practices with others including their pediatrician which thereby cuts off the conversation on ways to improve it. a conservative pediatrician, or one wary of being sued in the event of a tragedy, will parrot the aap and leave it at that. but we need to make allowances for cases in which unsafe sleep is unfortunately necessary for the overall health of the family.
i can’t speak on behalf of the bumper, blanket, sleep positioner using parents out there. but i will use the rock n play as an example. the aap and even fisher price discourages the use of this baby device for unsupervised sleeping... yet we see many btdt moms who still recommend it because it helps. the same goes for mamaroos, swings, bouncers, car seats, etc.. when we find something that helps the baby sleep, we utilize it, even if it’s officially unsafe. isn’t that a contradiction?
my opinion is that the aap is right in their recommendations for safe sleep practices. but, sometimes right does not equal realistic or practical for everyone.
co-sleeping and bed sharing is definitely my “do what you need to do to survive, no judgement from me” ride or die topic. empathy does that. little sleep for days, weeks in a row
The new guideline (I don’t even think it was this extreme three years ago) that the baby should be in your room for a year threw me for a loop. That sounds impractical for a lot of reasons. You would have to have a full crib in your room. Most bassinets and other newborn infant sleep surfaces really aren’t safe once babies can sit up and DD sat assisted at 4m and unassisted before 6m. All three of us slept so so so much better when she went into her own room. I know a lot of people happily keep their kids in their room or their bed for a year or years, but others put their baby in their own crib in their own room day 1 and I don’t think anything is “wrong” with either.
Re - people saying “I grew up this way and I’m fine” is such a weird argument! I read the comments section (don’t ask me why) about smoking during pregnancy and there were actually women today in 2018 defending their choice to smoke while pregnant because their mom/grandma smoked or people smoked around them back in the day and they’re fine. Really? Really???
@highsteaks I coslept with my daughter after doing as much research as I possibly could. We were exhausted. She hated the crib, rnp, swing, everything. The only way she wanted to sleep was on my chest. We finally found some sleep using a side lying nursing system. With DS, he slept in a dockatot. This go round, baby will be in our room but I’m praying will stay in the bassinet we bought. I do think Co-sleeping can be done safely and it truly
is the only option in some cases.
throwing another log on the fire. it’s coincidence that you specifically mention the new aap recommendation of room sharing until 1 year because i came across this npr article this morning that discusses it (was the first i had heard of this position). full disclosure, i only read the first half and i’m way too tired to be able to absorb the implications, but i wanted to
link because it might be of interest to you or others:
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/06/05/531582634/babies-sleep-better-in-their-own-rooms-after-4-months-study-finds
Yes. All of the above, exactly.
It’s tough even in the beginning with all of the grunting they make in their sleep. And like someone else said, you’d need a full-sized crib in your bedroom pretty soon.