Thought of this after reading the names thread. I am pretty traditional when it comes to names. I am not a fan of non-traditional names but I am firmly in the you do you stance. However, I do eye roll at names that are spelled different for not reason whatsoever.
It annoys me when people say "we're pregnant". I'm pregnant. We are expecting maybe. Happily my husband would never say we're pregnant. If I let him be the one to tell his family, he'll probably say "she's going to have a kid" and I'll have to clarify that we are having a baby together.
Kind of over name shaming, TBH. I've definitely got preferences, and there are some names that I side-eye, but... Like, my daughter's friends are little boys named Hero and Ladonnis. Would that pass a resume test? No. Should they have to have names that are traditional for a culture their ancestors didn't willingly join to be taken seriously? Also no. Would they be taken more seriously if they received names that are more traditional for the region of the world their ancestors were likely ripped from? Also also no.
It's just too easy for those discussions to slide into racism and classism for me to be comfortable with them.
I think the what I'm eating thread is dumb. I do not care to read 5 pages of people's meals.
Me: 35 H: 35 Married: 4/5/13 "You know that place between sleep and awake, that place where you can still remember dreaming? That's where I will always love you. That's where I'll be waiting." ~Peter Pan
*TW*
BFP #1: 11/12/12 EDD 7/25/13 Baby boy: 7/27/13 BFP #2: 10/29/17 MMC dx @ 9 weeks BFP #3: 2/2/18 MC 2/7/18 BFP #4: 3/2/18 MC 3/9/18 RPL testing and hysteroscopy: all normal BFP #5: 4/1/18 MMC dx @ 14 weeks ----> genetically normal girl Hysteroscopy to remove scar tissue 9/28 BFP #6 11/5/18 EDD 7/20/19 Rainbow baby girl born 7/23/19 BFP #7 12/8/2021 EDD 8/22/2022
@AGK2015 I know I started the name topic, but I hope you are not implying that my statement is racist or classist. Because my side eye of Brittany vs Brittanie has nothing to do with race or class.
@AGK2015 I agree with you. I definitely think it sucks that people have to be careful naming their children something too culturally identifiable for fear that they won’t get hired for a job in the future because people are racist a-holes. However, I do have all the eye rolls for celebrities who name their kids stuff like Apple and North West because I see it as attention seeking behavior from people who have already made it their life’s goal to be in the limelight. And it just annoys me.
Yeah, the whole "weird name" thing is something that rubs me the wrong way because, even though there are plenty of people (like maybe me!) who choose a nontraditional name that has nothing to do with race or culture, and there's nothing inherently racist or classist in thinking that the name Brittanie is a silly spelling, it IS really crappy that we define "normal" names as basically, white, British/Anglo-Saxon names. I have a friend with an African name and she struggled mightily at the beginning of her career to get jobs because of her "weird" (read: nonwhite) name. However, she's brilliant, she worked hard, and now she is in a position of power in our industry, and guess what? When she had her three beautiful daughters she decided to also give them African names because she figured that the problem wasn't her name, the problem was society. And society should be the thing to change, she and her children shouldn't have to conform to white sounding names. And I respect the hell out of that.
But anyway, I get that there's a world of difference between honoring your culture and choosing a hippie name or a bizarre spelling of a name BUT I do think our narrow definition of what "normal" names are could definitely use some work/change.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I read from @AGK2015 UO is that non-traditional names shouldn’t be shamed/avoided because the people with the names could potentially deal with racism or classism. It’s more of an entire culture that will look at a name and not take that person as seriously.
To throw in a personal example, my SO has a Celtic first name. We are both white, and have some British/Celtic ancestry so the name makes sense. What his mom didn’t think of when she named him is that by more modern, American naming practices, his name is much more used as an African American name. We don’t know anyone else personally with his name, but there a few celebrities and athletes with it who are black. My SO’s name isn’t even spelled “correctly”, although it still makes sense phonetically. “Misspelling” names is another stereotype often given to people of color.
I sometimes tease him that he doesn’t get calls for job interviews because of his name (because he’s had a hell of a time finding work in his field in the past). I have no idea if that’s true or not, but I do know that if you write a name like “John” on a resume and a name like ”LaDanian” on another, keeping every other detail the same, John will get more calls back. There’ve been enough studies on that. Same thing if you replace John with Susan.
That’s the part thats not acceptable. Should give all of the children gender neutral white names to make their lives easier? I don’t think that’s the answer.
So sorry if I come across as preachy or patronizing or anything else. Tone is often had to convey in writing and I’m not great with words anyway. I guess my UO is that these conversations shouldn’t be avoided just because they are hard. I care a whole lot more about the adult my child will become than nursery colors.
I hope my post didn’t come off as saying I think parents SHOULD name their child something more “white” so that they can get jobs later, but reading it back maybe it did. It’s certainly a societal problem that it would even be an issue. I just think it’s shitty that parents sometimes have to take that kind of thing into consideration before giving their kid a name they might prefer, just because our society needs some serious work. Anyway I’m not being very eloquent today, so I ask forgiveness for that.
@rosebud332 I didn’t get that from what you wrote. But if someone else might have, I’m glad that you came back to clarify.
I totally agree that it’s a societal/cultural problem at large, but society is made up of individuals. I forget the term, but there is a word for problems that are so big they feel overwhelming, because one person and perhaps even one whole generation can’t solve it. This is one of them (not names specifically, but racism in the USA) and climate change is another one.
Ok, wow. I feel like maybe I’m alienating people today. I’m going to take a break for a bit and see what others have to say. Already, @maureenmce said what I was trying to and much more eloquently.
Names are such a pain in general. My first name is normal enough to avoid scrutiny, but my maiden name is clearly Mexican. It pained me how many more job interviews I received when I applied to positions when married versus single. Same qualifications of course.
I read an interesting article (I can't find it otherwise I would certainly share it) that linked unique baby names to a person's/family's willingness to assimilate into their immediate culture. The stark examples included ethnic Chinese children named John as opposed to black children named DeShawn. The article simply concluded that parents who gave their kids resume-friendly names wanted to blend in with the community, and parents who went the more unique route didn't seem as interested in going with the flow.
I just know that I dislike names with superfluous unique spellings (like Mason spelled Macyn), and names with apostrophes that they insist is a 'high comma' (like Jason spelled J'ayson). So...since I don't like them I won't give LO any of those names.
NTNP since Dec 2012 | TTC since Jan 2016 Dx: Unspecified IF BFP#1 Nov 2017 • Blighted Ovum + MMC • D&C at nine weeks BFP#2 Apr 2018 • It's a boy! • Born 13 Dec 2018
@echo-charlietango, I married someone with a Spanish last name. When the contract that my entire workplace worked for changed companies, I was the only one in the whole building that was asked to prove my citizenship.
(Sorry guys, was on a flight, didn't mean to post and run).
UO wasn't in regards to anyone here or any specific conversation, just a general observation on conversations I've been around or in before. I don't think we've headed that direction (I'm not caught up on the names thread), but I know I've seen it on The Bump before and it's been on my mind since I suddenly have a reason to think about naming kids and whatnot.
I definitely prefer more traditional, Englishy names with common spellings for my kids, and I've internally cringed at plenty of Lakyns and Renesmees. I've just noticed that frequently, when people with similar preferences to mine start to get judgy, "traditional" is defined in a really culturally exclusionary way, or you get a lot of white collar folks talking about how they would turn away resumes (like that's not already an actual shitty thing that happens to people) or how it fails the President [name] test (like there aren't still people who always make sure to refer to Obama's middle name to drive home how "foreign" he is), or you get a bunch of urban legends with an unmistakable racial undertones about Lemonjello and Orangejello or La-a and "the dash don't be silent."
I'm all for people talking about their personal preferences! I'm just not so much excited about conversations I've been part of before that start veering towards prescriptivism or shaming or whatever. It's our job as members of our communities to not be shitty towards people because of their names; it's not the job of other people to conform to our standards of acceptability.
@abowls Jerks. I know a half Spanish family who always get double-takes because of their name. I enjoyed disappointing people when they assumed that I spoke Spanish though.
NTNP since Dec 2012 | TTC since Jan 2016 Dx: Unspecified IF BFP#1 Nov 2017 • Blighted Ovum + MMC • D&C at nine weeks BFP#2 Apr 2018 • It's a boy! • Born 13 Dec 2018
On names, I adore names with meanings and honoring culture and such.
My issue with names is people like my husband’s cousin who name her kid “Jaxon,” rather than “Jackson” so that he could stand out and be cool.
And also side eyeing my 21 year old self who added and extra D in my daughter’s name. Her name is Addalyn. I remember being on the Bump and saying “should I spell it Addalyn, Adalynn, or Addalynn?” THANK GOD they talked me out of the rest. I just wish I had spelled it the traditional Adelyn.
DD1 | Jan 2009 DD2 | June 2011 DS1 | Oct 2013 ADD3 | Oct 2014 (April 2001) DS2 | June 2016 DS3 | Dec 2018
My biggest issue with unique name spellings comes from the chip on my shoulder. Teachers couldn’t ever pronounce my name the first time, so I wanted to choose names that were easy to read. I don’t understand unnecessarily complicating things, but I’m very firmly in the “you do you” camp. People don’t like the weird names that I like, like Agnes, Walter, or Arthur. Oh well. There’s no pleasing everyone.
Re: UO Thursday
I am pretty traditional when it comes to names. I am not a fan of non-traditional names but I am firmly in the you do you stance. However, I do eye roll at names that are spelled different for not reason whatsoever.
It's just too easy for those discussions to slide into racism and classism for me to be comfortable with them.
Married: 4/5/13
"You know that place between sleep and awake,
that place where you can still remember dreaming?
That's where I will always love you.
That's where I'll be waiting."
~Peter Pan
*TW*
BFP #2: 10/29/17 MMC dx @ 9 weeks
BFP #3: 2/2/18 MC 2/7/18
BFP #4: 3/2/18 MC 3/9/18
RPL testing and hysteroscopy: all normal
BFP #5: 4/1/18 MMC dx @ 14 weeks ----> genetically normal girl
Hysteroscopy to remove scar tissue 9/28
BFP #6 11/5/18 EDD 7/20/19
BFP #7 12/8/2021 EDD 8/22/2022
But anyway, I get that there's a world of difference between honoring your culture and choosing a hippie name or a bizarre spelling of a name BUT I do think our narrow definition of what "normal" names are could definitely use some work/change.
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I read from @AGK2015 UO is that non-traditional names shouldn’t be shamed/avoided because the people with the names could potentially deal with racism or classism. It’s more of an entire culture that will look at a name and not take that person as seriously.
To throw in a personal example, my SO has a Celtic first name. We are both white, and have some British/Celtic ancestry so the name makes sense. What his mom didn’t think of when she named him is that by more modern, American naming practices, his name is much more used as an African American name. We don’t know anyone else personally with his name, but there a few celebrities and athletes with it who are black. My SO’s name isn’t even spelled “correctly”, although it still makes sense phonetically. “Misspelling” names is another stereotype often given to people of color.
I sometimes tease him that he doesn’t get calls for job interviews because of his name (because he’s had a hell of a time finding work in his field in the past). I have no idea if that’s true or not, but I do know that if you write a name like “John” on a resume and a name like ”LaDanian” on another, keeping every other detail the same, John will get more calls back. There’ve been enough studies on that. Same thing if you replace John with Susan.
That’s the part thats not acceptable. Should give all of the children gender neutral white names to make their lives easier? I don’t think that’s the answer.
So sorry if I come across as preachy or patronizing or anything else. Tone is often had to convey in writing and I’m not great with words anyway. I guess my UO is that these conversations shouldn’t be avoided just because they are hard. I care a whole lot more about the adult my child will become than nursery colors.
I totally agree that it’s a societal/cultural problem at large, but society is made up of individuals. I forget the term, but there is a word for problems that are so big they feel overwhelming, because one person and perhaps even one whole generation can’t solve it. This is one of them (not names specifically, but racism in the USA) and climate change is another one.
Ok, wow. I feel like maybe I’m alienating people today. I’m going to take a break for a bit and see what others have to say. Already, @maureenmce said what I was trying to and much more eloquently.
I read an interesting article (I can't find it otherwise I would certainly share it) that linked unique baby names to a person's/family's willingness to assimilate into their immediate culture. The stark examples included ethnic Chinese children named John as opposed to black children named DeShawn. The article simply concluded that parents who gave their kids resume-friendly names wanted to blend in with the community, and parents who went the more unique route didn't seem as interested in going with the flow.
I just know that I dislike names with superfluous unique spellings (like Mason spelled Macyn), and names with apostrophes that they insist is a 'high comma' (like Jason spelled J'ayson). So...since I don't like them I won't give LO any of those names.
Dx: Unspecified IF
BFP#1 Nov 2017 • Blighted Ovum + MMC • D&C at nine weeks
BFP#2 Apr 2018 • It's a boy! • Born 13 Dec 2018
UO wasn't in regards to anyone here or any specific conversation, just a general observation on conversations I've been around or in before. I don't think we've headed that direction (I'm not caught up on the names thread), but I know I've seen it on The Bump before and it's been on my mind since I suddenly have a reason to think about naming kids and whatnot.
I definitely prefer more traditional, Englishy names with common spellings for my kids, and I've internally cringed at plenty of Lakyns and Renesmees. I've just noticed that frequently, when people with similar preferences to mine start to get judgy, "traditional" is defined in a really culturally exclusionary way, or you get a lot of white collar folks talking about how they would turn away resumes (like that's not already an actual shitty thing that happens to people) or how it fails the President [name] test (like there aren't still people who always make sure to refer to Obama's middle name to drive home how "foreign" he is), or you get a bunch of urban legends with an unmistakable racial undertones about Lemonjello and Orangejello or La-a and "the dash don't be silent."
I'm all for people talking about their personal preferences! I'm just not so much excited about conversations I've been part of before that start veering towards prescriptivism or shaming or whatever. It's our job as members of our communities to not be shitty towards people because of their names; it's not the job of other people to conform to our standards of acceptability.
Dx: Unspecified IF
BFP#1 Nov 2017 • Blighted Ovum + MMC • D&C at nine weeks
BFP#2 Apr 2018 • It's a boy! • Born 13 Dec 2018
My issue with names is people like my husband’s cousin who name her kid “Jaxon,” rather than “Jackson” so that he could stand out and be cool.
And also side eyeing my 21 year old self who added and extra D in my daughter’s name. Her name is Addalyn. I remember being on the Bump and saying “should I spell it Addalyn, Adalynn, or Addalynn?” THANK GOD they talked me out of the rest. I just wish I had spelled it the traditional Adelyn.
DD2 | June 2011
DS1 | Oct 2013
ADD3 | Oct 2014 (April 2001)
DS2 | June 2016
DS3 | Dec 2018
Due with baby blob August 2021