WWYD - Parents and Religion

hardlyhannah · March 2018

This may belong in questions. This may belong in UO. This may belong in the IL thread. So I am creating it's own discussion because people said they wanted that. Please don't yell at me. lol

Background: we are not religious. DS is not baptized or dedicated to anything. I don't know where I stand on belief in Heaven. Iffy on God. Hard no on Jesus. I don't consider myself atheist, but we don't practice anything at all. Just generally being good human beings. My IL's (MIL specifically) are very religious. We broke her spirit when we didn't get married in the church and I wonder sometimes if she secretly blessed DS at some point because she's never once brought up a baptism for him.

The issue: DS is with my ILs one day a week for childcare. I love that, they take good care of him with the exception of enforcing nap time. The other day, DS came home and was saying Hi! to Grandpa P - who is his Great Grandpa, who passed away a few months after DS was born. And he was clearly waving up to the sky - i.e. heaven.

The question: do I ask them not to teach him about Heaven? Just let it slide? I am so torn because I still have mixed feelings on it as well. I am just not sure how to handle it. And what other 'religious' things are they teaching him?

I also want to add that if DS decides he wants a faith community as he gets older we will of course support that, but we didn't want to 'impose' that decision on him.

juliebird6 · March 2018

I'd probably let it slide. If he's only with them one day a week, the amount of religious teaching he might get is pretty minimal. And it might actually provide a good opportunity in the future for you to use it as a way of teaching him that everyone believes different things, and it's good to learn about what other people believe, but important for him to decide himself what HE wants to believe.

calimom2524 · March 2018

You basically just described me perfectly (with your beliefs) and my ex inlaws with their beliefs. We did baptize DS1 just to keep them happy but didn't with DS2. They were our main childcare for 4 years and they are practicing Catholics so they introduced a lot of things to my children that I never would have introduced.

This being said, I always let it slide. They were never pushy with religion, they didn't force us to do anything, and they didn't force religion on the kids. They did talk about Jesus and God and Heaven and other religion basics but it never bothered me because even though I don't believe the way they do, my kids were always interested to learn it. I will never force my children to believe or not believe anything, but if they choose to be educated on it then I won't stop them. I know at such young ages they weren't necessarily choosing to learn religion, but the discussions interested them and it made my inlaws happy so I never minded it.

livinthesunnylife · March 2018

Nope. I am a big believer that I control the major influences in my child's life. So I would make DH talk to his parents about backing off on pushing so much religion on your son. Just my opinion.

Similarly, we want people speaking to our kid in a language that we don't know what they are saying and have seen BIL's kids be confused with the multiple languages being thrown at them by different people. So MIL knows she is not allowed to speak Arabic to our son. Her name can be Teta, that's a name and that's fine. But that's it. And DH immediately corrects her when she tries.

7425cait · March 2018

^ +1. Let it slide. DH and I aren't religious either. We were married by a gay minister, and DD was "baptized" by the same guy on her first bday only because my mom was giving us a hard time. However, I do plan on teaching my kids about religion in general. You can use this as a starting point to talk about other ideas of heaven or the beyond (reincarnation and such).

legallykate · March 2018

I'm with @livinthesunnylife. I am lucky in that neither of my parents are religious and DH's parents are Jewish. I am fine with our kids being raised very liberally Jewish and celebrating Hanukkah in addition to Christmas and even attending Hebrew school if DH wants to go that route with them, but I would be much less tolerant of anyone talking to my kids about Jesus/Heaven/anything along those lines. Along similar lines, I also plan to rip my baby out of my father's hands if he says a single pro-Trump thing in her presence, whether she is a newborn or old enough to understand, that's how strongly I feel about that.

F47 · March 2018

I would probably let it slide, but something to think about as DS gets older (not sure how old he is now). Heaven is a very complicated subject, as you know. My oldest is four. My grandmother who was a very constant presence in his life passed away quickly and unexpectedly when he was almost 3. It was obvious to him that she was gone because he didn't see her, and he saw me very upset about it on a few occasions as much as I tried to hide it. I'm a not-really-practicing Catholic. But, I still hold the general beliefs. I explained to DS that Momaw was in heaven. He accepted that and seemed to move on. But, as he's gotten older, he has had 1 MILLION questions about heaven.

He brings it up every few days - especially because my grandpa passed last April. My Mom had told him that Momaw and Popaw are so proud of him, that they can see him and know he's such a good boy. That seems innocent, but DS can't understand how they can see him. And, where is heaven exactly? And, if I don't know where heaven is, how do I know it's a real place? Do they have cell phones? Can we just call Momaw and ask where it is? Can we drive to heaven? Will we see them again when they come back from heaven?

DS is also pretty scared by nature. He internalizes and obsesses over things and wants to learn as much as he can about them. So, it's tough for him with something so ambiguous. He's already told me he had a dream that I was going to heaven and, I "wasn't even old." And, he told my other grandma the other day that he never wants her to go to heaven.

When the time comes that someone in your family passes who is close to DS, it could get complicated if you're not fully on-board with the logic.

Firemanswife11 · March 2018

So...I can see both sides. But I think I would let it slide, for now.

We don't go to church because I feel like everyone there is a fake hypocrite...but I do listen to Christian music and DS goes to a Christian-based day care. I do pray and we tell DS that people/animals are in heaven when they die.

I did, however, have a problem with my MIL telling my son that our dog was DEAD when we hadn't yet figured out how to approach that with him. He now understands that B is in heaven, but thinks heaven is where people go on airplanes. Lol. So I mean, he doesn't really understand what heaven is or what we're even talking about. I just didn't want him going around bluntly telling people that our dog was dead. It seemed odd to me.

I also think that kids sometimes need an answer as to what happened to someone when they don't understand the concept of death yet. So in a way I feel it's harmless but I guess it could be a bigger problem down the road if your ILs try to be controlling over his beliefs.

elsieisamoocow · March 2018

I’d let it slide. We’re not religious - DH is technically half Jewish, and he did get really into his Judaism a few years before we met, but it’s more of just a cultural thing now, I’d even go so far to say that he’s atheist. I was raised Episcopalian, but we were Christmas and Easter churchgoers for most of my childhood because we went to our cabin in the mountains on weekends to ski. My parents have made comments about gettin. DS baptized, and I would have considered it just because I am spiritual and believe there is possibly some sort of higher power, but I don’t buy into religion at all, but DH was completely against it when I brought it up. We’ll let our kids decide.

On the heaven thing, I believe that you can believe in heaven without it being religious. Maybe it’s just because I’ve lost two babies, and I don’t want to think that they’re gone forever where I’ll never get to see them again, but I take comfort in a heaven of some sort. Whether it’s an afterlife or some floaty magical place in the clouds, I don’t connect religion to it, so I think it’s fine to have DS believe in it too, if only to know that’s where his sisters are and his great grandfathers.

neeraja_k · March 2018

If it was just a one-off, I'd probably let it slide and maybe use it as a starting point for the conversation with your kid about different religions, beliefs, etc. Like learning about different religious holidays, what they mean, why they do it, etc. Even as a fairly non-religious kid I found learning about the various things fascinating, and still do to a degree. But I'd probably mention to the family that I'd really like that type of discussion to be kept to a minimum around my child.

I believe in heaven to a degree, like for me it's a infinitely large receptacle created of love where all of the people and pets I care about go to when they pass. I talk to them, I think of them, and I think of them always there for me when I need them. That said, I'm a fairly liberal atheist myself, but I am a pretty "live and let live" type. If you want to believe in all that stuff, fine, be my guest...but please keep it to yourself. The moment you get all up in my business (or hypothetical kid's business) about your beliefs is the moment I put my militant boots on. I'm looking at you random-ass pastor at the Mexican restaurant on a Sunday afternoon who noticed my husband and I didn't pray before eating, so he came over and interrupted our meal to try to proselytize at us.

My grandma kept trying to lecture me about the bible and "Jesus said" a few weeks ago. Which is hilarious in a way, as I have never been to church with my family. Ever. My mom and grandma both say they're religious, but aside from believing in it in general, that's as far as it ever goes. But she kept going on and on about it one day while we were out, after her Jehovah's Witness ladies that come to read the bible at her had been there earlier, and I said pretty much, "Grandma stop. I don't believe in it. I don't want to believe in it. I'm happier without it. If it makes you happy and gives you comfort, then I'm all for it. But I don't need it in my life to make me be a good person. And if that's all that's keeping you from being an awful person, then it's doing a poor job indeed." This was also the same day as she kept railing on and on about "lazy black folk grafting the government" just because we had the most delightful black waitress at the restaurant we ate at that reminded her of the looped topic in her broken brain.

Religion is the least of my concerns with my family, instead it's the radical political and racist leanings I want to put a quick stop to.

kburg15 · March 2018

I would not let it slide. My mom is a Christian and I’m very open about my atheism with her and we have a great relationship—she’s agreed not to bring up religion around our kids. We don’t have the same relationship with my ILs and I know this will eventually come up and we’ll have to have a conversation with them not to bring up religion to our kids. I think parents are the ones to address these issues with children. While mentioning “heaven” may seem innocent enough, it’s confusing and I would more worry about boundaries and drawing the line between what’s acceptable and what isn’t. Is it ok to go to church with grandparents? Can they teach them about sin? What about hell? What about praying? My advice would be to decide how you’re going to parent/teach religion and when so you know what you’re comfortable with. If you decide this isn’t an issue, there are also lots of books you can get that teach critical thinking and things like Greek mythology and understanding of world religions so that your kids have a better understanding of belief vs fact. Just my two cents from someone whose biggest issue with family is religious differences

lalala2004 · March 2018

I think that it can be used as a teaching moment. “Some people believe this....” We are practicing Christians, but very open to change and questioning our beliefs, because as finite humans, I don’t believe we can know everything about life and spirituality. I think it’s good to encourage children to question everything and to not indoctrinate them in any religion or belief system. Obviously, we will raise our son to go to church with us, but we will encourage him to search for himself and not take our word for it on everything. It’s also important for me to teach him about other religions because I think it’s imprtant to be a global citizen and not ethnocentric.

livinthesunnylife · March 2018

@hardlyhannah How old is your son? Sorry I can't remember how old everyone's littles are

mapleandbacon · March 2018

Hi! I'm new but thought I would jump right in. I say let it slide. If things become more intense then perhaps go back and reasses. I feel the exact same as you regarding religious beliefs, however I feel right now, at a young age, religion teaches children to be nice, be honest, most of the things I hope my son learns, regardless of religion. Also, it's possible your MIL was simply describing that great p was no longer alive and thought it simpler to say in the sky in heaven than ... In the ground in a box? Or urn?

livinthesunnylife · March 2018

Yay welcome @mapleandbacon so excited to have a new person jumping in!

mrsbubbles-2 · March 2018

@hardlyhannah - that is really tough. How do you think an open and honest conversation with them would go? Explain how you feel about him having the freedom to explore religion on his own when he's older but the heaven talk doesn't really fit with your family structure?

So my issue is that it might just be a comment here and there about heaven and waving to his grandfather, but will this expand later to religious teaching? I say set some boundaries now, explain your reasoning and hopefully they respect your beliefs.

calimom2524 · March 2018

livinthesunnylife said:

Yay welcome @mapleandbacon so excited to have a new person jumping in!

This!

scottishlass1213 · March 2018

I haven't read all of the posts ahead but we're kind of the same - all very non-religious. I am baptised though but have never set foot in a church service. We dedicated DS so ultimately letting him choose what he wants when he is older and it was done by an Army chaplain.

How old is your DS? My DS is 5 next month and for instance he understands that his Great-Grandad is dead and he saw him buried. But then a kid at school must've told him that her Grandmother is an angel so he said that to me. I didn't know what to say but I just said lots of people believe different things and when he gets older he gets to decide what he would like to believe.

I don't know if your DS is old enough to tell him that though. Otherwise, maybe let it slide for now unless it becomes a consistent issue.

windywoman · March 2018

I think I would let it slide for now. I guess I figure telling a young kid about heaven is not horrible. But, if they start really pushing I would say something. My dad and step-mother, step-brother and his exW are born again Christians and are pretty religious. My step-neice was really into dinosaurs when she was younger. One time she was talking to us about how long ago dinosaurs walked the earth and said "Some people say they were here millions of years ago. But they are wrong. It was only thousands of years ago." My step-mother said "That's right. Good Job". See to me that is just wrong to teach a child something so factually wrong. I am not saying teaching a kid religion in any form is wrong but, I think it can be done without ignoring facts. I definitely think that kids/teens will eventually figure things out or come to their own conclusions, whether to be religious or not, eventually.

missprincessdoom · March 2018

I'd let it go. DH and I have discussed this too. He leans more agnostic atheist, and I lean more agnostic theist. We both come from religious backgrounds with preaching/evangelism on both sides of our family. Neither of us really told our family how we felt on religion & just usually stay out of those conversations because we don't feel like getting into it. I recently told my mom that we won't be raising our child religiously because she asked. She told me she felt sad to hear that and she would pray & she bought a couple Bible story books that she would keep at her house to read to the baby. We're anticipating my MIL to bombard us with questions and opinions about our decision once she finds out.

We've decided that we'll allow them to take little one to church when she stays with them & talk about religion around her. We'll also support her and let her attend any religious service she wants if she decides that's what she wants to do. We're going to use our family's beliefs as a starting point for religious/spiritual exploration.

We figure that at the end of the day she'll have her own mind to make that decision for herself. After all, we both came from strict religious backgrounds & we both ended up heathens

despite the fact that religion was forced on us. Besides, it's impossible to completely stop outside influences & if they don't hear it from family they'll hear it from someone else (like a movie, overhearing a random conversation at the supermarket, when they get old enough to read, friends at school etc.). We figure why stress it. More than likely the kid will repeat what they heard/learned when they're back with you guys alone & I think that would be a good time to explain your point of view/facts/what religion and spirituality is etc.

jsnakehole · March 2018

I would let it slide. I think the idea of someone passing looking down on us from somewhere could be slightly removed from heaven per se (like Mufasa looking down on Simba). I also think it's just an easier way to get someone so young to understand a tough concept.

I was raised reform Jewish with an emphasis on the -ish. My husband was raised Orthodox but left that at 18. Our son will be raised reform Jewish and will go to Hebrew school. He probably won't spend much time with my in-laws, but he'll understand things like no TV on Saturdays at Saba and Safta's house. My oldest BIL's were kind of raised with a "if you're not doing it our way, you're wrong" kind of attitude and I definitely don't want that for my son, but he's also going through have way more exposure to people different from him.

hardlyhannah · March 2018

So DS is only two and way to young to understand these complex concepts so it is really innocent right now but I do worry what will come later too.

I really liked your thoughts on heaven @neeraja_k that’s how I feel too - I like to think that the people and pets I’ve loved are hanging out somewhere watching over us. That’s why I’m conflicted on not believing in it in a religious way.

I tend to think that theres a big energy everywhere that we all get absorbed absorbed into and created from which is kind of like a god I guess? I dunno. I don’t spend the time to define my beliefs other then do good don’t hurt people.

I was raised catholic and went to went to catholic school through high school, but we never practiced other than what I was forced to do at school. I don’t want that for DS.

livinthesunnylife · March 2018

@hardlyhannah I thought he was young and not able to use this as a teaching moment like others have said. That's where my nip this in the butt right now before it turns into a bigger issue later comment came from.

hfooter · March 2018

I would let it slide. I don’t believe in the religious god and I think Jesus was probably a cool dude and did some good, but def not a son of a god.

I believe in a higher power of some sort becaue something whatever that may be created all this (universe and what not).

So where I stand is, let them learn about it all. How can they make their own informed decision when you are censoring the info they take in? When I was younger I could attend whatever church I wanted with my friends so I have been to quite a few different ones. And with all the information I gathered I’m definitely not, nor will I ever be, a religious person. I did enjoy the singing though lol

homequiltingmama · March 2018

I lean more towards 'let it slide'. Growing up, my grandmother was the one who took care of us while my parents worked (so I spent a lot of time with her) and she was religious. My parents were not religious at all (though they went to church growing up). My parents wouldn't let us go to church with her, but they didn't really care if she talked about her beliefs. Looking back now, it's a bit strange, but I remember watching movies like Ben Hur and The Ten Commandments with my parents so they weren't anti-religious persay.

Anyway...NONE of that affected me at all in terms of being religious. I mean, I was aware of religious things (not just Christian) but being a Christian was just who my grandmother was and not being religious was who my parents were (even though sometimes my grandmother was a hypocrite and sometimes my parents enjoyed religious things) and that's really all I thought of it as. Later I became a Christian, but it wasn't my family's influence - it was after I moved out and away.

I think as long as you're honest with your kids about your own beliefs and they aren't being terrorized by your relatives, there isn't much harm. Like, I think it's totally fine to say "I'm not sure if there is a heaven" or "I think there's a heaven but I'm not sure what it will be like". As long as the relatives don't cross a boundary by making them terrified of believing or not believing something then it's probably ok. If you think they might do that though, then it might be worth a conversation.

derbysquirrel · March 2018

I'm from a non religious family, and I had never even heard of God until I was 7! My neighbors told me I couldn't go trick-or-treating because of Satan, and I thought they were insane. I have no idea how I would handle this, because I don't want to bring up religion very early, but I also don't think it's a huge deal depending on how it is handled. I'd want to know more about what my son was being told and in what context, and take it from there. Both my husband and I are terrible liars, and I'm afraid we're both going to give bluntly honest answers to our kid.

pghctwife · March 2018

How old is your son? Bc that would impact how I’d handle it.

im less religious than you - atheist, raised with no religion but im
pretty to eachntheir own with it. Dh is more agnostic as he was raised with it but very anti - so in our family he would have a huge issue with this, while I would not.

My first thought was that maybe grandpa p came up somehow - a picture in their home that he asked about. And they had to answer it as it came. I know my mom watches my neices once a week and they’ve asked her questions about periods and such (weird since my mom is certainly post menopausal lol). And I mean, you can try to defer it but i also can see trying to just answer the question and thinking that putting them off might be confusing or harder for them.

So if he said ‘where is grandpa’ and they said he’s in heaven... it’s not how I’d answer the question but I wouldn’t be upset either. I mean if they brought it up with him trying to give him a religious edu behind your back,.. that’s different and you might need to rethink that babysitting arrangement. But I could see it being innocent and at a certain point if you are trusting and asking them to help with his care you have to trust them and be ok with who they are too.

I think also it so it would be easy enough to broach it with her ‘hey mil johnnie was talking a lot about grandpa p. Was he asking about him with you too? Trying to gauge if he’s upset, ok, curious so I can handle it appropriately’

pghctwife · March 2018

As for how I’ve handled questions about god and church and religion, I’ve said that people believe different things. Some people believe in god and think that he helps people and can give them guidance or influence in their lives. It makes some people happy to know that he’s there. We don’t believe in god and we think that it’s importantbto do good things and help people because it’s right even without god.

Church is a place where people go to pray, which means to have a conversation on your mind with god, to talk to other people about god, and to have quiet time to think about your life.

Death: we’ve had to deal with death recently when my sil died and we said ‘no one knows for sure what happens when you die. some people think that you go to a place called heaven which is good and happy, some ppl thinkwhen you die you are just gone and that’s all. That’s what we think. but they live in your heart because you love them’

Jesus similar idea... ppl think he was the son of god and had the power to do magical things (in terms my kids would understand). I think he was a real man who lived and tried to do good things to help people.

pghctwife · March 2018

Ok I see he’s 2 so my second post is way too soon lol.

hardlyhannah · March 2018

Yea my mil was very close to her dad (grandpa p) and they go visit great grandma every week when they have him so I assume they brought grandpa p up to him, he wouldn’t have asked about him because he was so little when he passed. I just don’t know what the context would have been. They maybe were just talking to him or something I don’t know. I’ll see them tomorrow night so maybe I’ll bring it up.

hardlyhannah · March 2018

**Update** They've been saying hi to him in the mornings when they walk down the wall of pictures in my IL's hallway, where they say hi to everyone. So it doesn't sound like there's much if any other conversation around it.

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