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June 2018 Moms
doxiemoxie212
member
Book Club: Bringing Up Bebe (March Discussion)
doxiemoxie212
member
Welcome back to Book Club! I hope everyone enjoyed Bringing Up Bebe! A few prompts below to help guide our discussion (answer as many or few as you like):
How would you rate this book on a scale from 1-10 as a baby/parenting book?
How would you rate this book as a book overall?
What did you find most interesting about this book?
What did you find least interesting about this book?
Is there anything you plan to incorporate into your parenting style? Anything you definitely will not?
Would you recommend your SO read this book?
Would you recommend other pregnant women read this book? (Or TTGP women, or parents, or whatever timing)
How would you describe this book to someone who hasn't read it?
Do you think the described French style of parenting is possible outside a place like France with govt support/everyone on the same page?
Have you made any of the recipes in the back of the book?
Did you look up pronunciations as you were reading it and now want to be able to say poop sausage properly?
General comments/questions/feedback?
How would you rate this book on a scale from 1-10 as a baby/parenting book?
How would you rate this book as a book overall?
What did you find most interesting about this book?
What did you find least interesting about this book?
Is there anything you plan to incorporate into your parenting style? Anything you definitely will not?
Would you recommend your SO read this book?
Would you recommend other pregnant women read this book? (Or TTGP women, or parents, or whatever timing)
How would you describe this book to someone who hasn't read it?
Do you think the described French style of parenting is possible outside a place like France with govt support/everyone on the same page?
Have you made any of the recipes in the back of the book?
Did you look up pronunciations as you were reading it and now want to be able to say poop sausage properly?
General comments/questions/feedback?
Re: Book Club: Bringing Up Bebe (March Discussion)
Married August 2015
DS born 5/23/2018
TTC #2 July 2020
DS: 6/1/18 (Pre-E; IUGR; seizures; NICU)
TTC #2: 12/2019
Sept 2020: HSG possible blocked right tube
Nov 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFN
Dec 2020: Letrozole + TI - BFP!!! EDD 9/18
I've got to get ready for work, but I'll be back
How would you rate this book on a scale from 1-10 as a baby/parenting book? 9
How would you rate this book as a book overall? 9 (if you like anthropological looks at other cultures)
What did you find most interesting about this book? My favorite aspect of this book was going through the day to day of someone living in Paris. I liked being able to imagine a life there, and I really appreciated getting a new perspective on parenting as a thought process, if that makes sense. Like, the idea that my role as a parent is to teach our child how to be patient, deal with frustration and fit into our family is something that is really interesting and very different from how my parents parented me. My parents acted like their job as parents was to keep me happy all the time and I used this desire to my advantage to manipulate them, and ultimately it took me a long time to grow in certain ways because of it. It also caused a lot of anxiety for me as a child because nearly every decision was mine. What did I want for dinner? The decision was 100% mine. What did I want to wear? Decision was entirely mine. Did I want to go to school that day? Did I want to go to sleep? Did I want to wake up? etc etc. I think part of it was my parents worked so much they felt a lot of guilt, so any time they could spend with me they just wanted me to be happy. I would have been a lot more well adjusted if they had a different parenting perspective from day one.
I also just loved the descriptions of the Creshes. Oh my god. So cute. With their four course meals, I die. And I thought it was really interesting that they value perfect verbal language in young children before moving to reading/writing since that's so different from here in the US. That part was difficult for DH because he started reading before he was 3-years-old, so in his mind that's just what the deal is, but I think I would've much preferred waiting to start reading until I was a little older. I really liked math when I was in kindergarten, but I did not like being forced to read, and I didn't enjoy reading until I was around 11-years-old because of it.
Is there anything you plan to incorporate into your parenting style? Anything you definitely will not? I will definitely attempt "The Pause." I think the only way it could theoretically work is if you do it from day one and really, truly believe that you are giving your child a little bit of time to figure things out for him/herself. To me, this makes sense. You just expand the time frame. I love the idea that on the weekends even very young children help their parents bake in the mornings and you must wait until the 4pm afternoon snack to eat it because I think this is A) adorable, and
As far as what I won't incorporate.... my children will be my life. Like, I already know this. I'm going to try to not have that be the case, but it just will be. I don't think I'll feel guilty leaving them occasionally to go on vacation with DH if the opportunity arises, but I know for sure I'll be the "taxi mom" described lol. And I'm fine with that.
Would you recommend your SO read this book? Yes, he absolutely 100% loved it and is obsessed with it. He talks about it incessantly. I think he thinks it will be easier to do these things than it will actually be since we are not in France.
Would you recommend other pregnant women read this book? (Or TTGP women, or parents, or whatever timing) Yes, I would, but probably especially urban parents since I'm not 100% sure this would translate as well outside a large metropolitan area. I know this book is very popular in NYC, and I see how it fits here, but I'm not as sure it would "work" (or be relevant?) in a suburban or rural area.
How would you describe this book to someone who hasn't read it? An anthropological look at living in Paris through the lens of parenting.
Do you think the described French style of parenting is possible outside a place like France with govt support/everyone on the same page? I think aspects of it are, but probably only for those who come from a place of financial privilege. This would be extremely difficult to replicate in totality without access to proper healthcare, daycare/nannies, etc. I think the mindset is probably something that could be helpful for anyone to lessen a lot of the guilt American mothers feel, and I found it reassuring that children in Paris were totally fine with not having a ton of "stuff" (since we just physically don't have room for it in our apt lol) so I guess that would be translated. But part of the reason that French parents are so much happier than American parents is that they have less to worry about -- who is going to take care of the kids? what happens if we get sick? what happens if I have a difficult recovery after birth? what food will my kid eat? etc. They don't worry about that there, it's taken care of. That's not really the case here. I also think that kids follow rules so much easier if all their friends have the same ones. In Paris, it seems like that is fairly standardized. Here? Not so much. Is my kid going to continue to go along with my rules the same way she would in Paris if none of her friends have the same ones? Probably not. It's just different when something is automatically reinforced everywhere you go. I remember when this book first came out that was basically the criticism -- like, okay great, cool story France, but we don't have the infrastructure here to do it.
Have you made any of the recipes in the back of the book? Yes! The grated carrots are very yummy.
Did you look up pronunciations as you were reading it and now want to be able to say poop sausage properly? I TRIED TO! DH is somewhat fluent in French, so I kept asking him how to pronounce things, and it just didn't seem right to me, so I ended up googling it. IT TURNS OUT THAT DH ONLY KNOWS CANADIAN FRENCH lol and the pronunciations are different from Parisian French. Who knew?
General comments/questions/feedback? I'm just curious if anyone has actually tried anything from this book from day one? It sounds too good to be true...
How would you rate this book as a book overall? 8 or 9 for basically the same reasons as above.
What did you find most interesting about this book? Reading about French crèches. Mainly as a tool to reinforce a good diet of a variety of foods. We have crèches in the Netherlands as well, but this book inspired me to go for one where they do warm, organic vegetarian lunches for kids aged 1+. It's been awesome for my son, who gets to try all kinds of things we don't make at home. And if work was exhausting, I don't feel bad ditching kitchen prep and giving him a sandwich for dinner...
I was also surprised to read how uncommon breastfeeding is in such a kid-friendly society. My best friend is French and confirmed it's true, but changing in the younger generation. She also confirmed doctors are brisk and often make treatment decisions without sharing all info/options with patients. So that sucks.
What did you find least interesting about this book? Ehhh well it's not uninteresting but it felt at times like the author had a kind of hero approach to French culture, while painting the American approach in broad strokes as bad. It annoyed me at times.
Is there anything you plan to incorporate into your parenting style? Anything you definitely will not? Yes to the creche with warm meals. We also did the pause for night training. Buuut for the record, my son didn't sleep through the night until just after he turned 1. I didn't see this as an issue because I breastfed him and he was hungry. Also, I work all day so we only had so often to snuggle and nurse, you know? I try to have him help me with chores and practical tasks and regularly leave him to play by himself to encourage independence. I ignore his whining for a few minutes to see if he can resolve a problem himself, etc. Oh and we regularly eat out and expect him to behave for up to about an hour, and the book definitely inspired me to ensure he got lots of practice with that.
Definitely can't do the scheduled meals and snack times. It's not my style. And if I'm eating, he demands food too, so...it's not that I don't see the positive side to that kind of extreme scheduling, but I'd hate my life. So no thanks.
Would you recommend your SO read this book? I did. He read it and got really irritated because he feels a lot of the "French" things are really European things and as a Dutchie I guess it offended him not to get any credit. Things like firm schedules, taking kids to restaurants and expecting them to behave, emphasis on autonomy and independence, letting kids take risks and fail, and strong pressure to sleep train are also very common here for sure.
Would you recommend other pregnant women read this book? (Or TTGP women, or parents, or whatever timing) Yeah I would.
How would you describe this book to someone who hasn't read it? Fun read. A window into expat life.
Do you think the described French style of parenting is possible outside a place like France with govt support/everyone on the same page? Not really. Elements of it are, but parenting is about surviving at the end of the day. The system you're in really influences that. If you're constantly fighting the norm, it's miserable and exhausting. That said, things like letting kids take risks (warn them why you dont think they should do xyz slightly dangerous thing, but letting them discover the consequences themselves) and providing discipline when they cross the line are doable, in my opinion.
Have you made any of the recipes in the back of the book? No.
And I hear you about the regimented meals. I think I would be a healthier person if I did my meals in small, simple courses and didn't constantly snack buuuuuuut IDK if I could do that personally so probably unrealistic that I could get my kids to do it without me lol.
But exposure to food seems so important. DH's mom never cooked, they only ever ordered delivery, so he didn't get a lot of exposure to the process of food being cooked, or what alternative preparations might be. I ate a lot of vegetables growing up, but I think it was because I helped my mom cook them so they didn't seem very scary, and I knew there were a variety of preparations and which I personally preferred. A lot of things my mom didn't cook did seem scary to me, though, and I wouldn't eat those. It's taken the last 10 years of DH and I being together where he's watched me cook where he realizes oh, many things taste different when they are prepared a different way so maybe I should keep trying things. lol I really hope my kids come to that realization before age 30.
So do you feel like the sleeping through the night thing is nearly impossible if you're dedicated to 100% breastfeeding? Or she's kind of inflating the success of all French kids "doing their nights"?
There are definitely still differences between the French and Dutch styles, but I do believe they're quite similar. I expect Belgium and Germany as well. That group of countries is a kind of unit. Main difference I see is the French take food to a whole new level with those standardized 4-course meals and the national baking habits. That is not the same here. And the creche is subsidized (free for low-income families but pretty expensive if you have a decent income), but not free. Also, doctors here tell you EVERYTHING. They might not do what you want them to do (they are notoriously not fond of dispensing antibiotics or meds unless they're convinced it's necessary), but they are very honest and detail-oriented, as is Dutch culture generally. Breastfeeding is super common here and you see it in public a lot, especially in the cities, so that's also different. Going back to work after maternity leave, you have the right to a 6-hour work day so that you have 2 hours every day for pumping and/or swinging by the creche to nurse (many Dutch women bike over to do that). You can do this until your child is 9 months. Oh and here's a biggie - home birth is the norm here!
But there truly are more similarities. Like. The pediatrician (who is lovely) totally made me feel bad that my little guy wasn't sleeping through the night. There was a lot of pressure around that, and most people assume you're back to at least 6 hours of night sleep by the time your baby is 3 months. She also would outline specific feeding schedules for me, both before and after he started solids. I nodded my head, said thanks, and filed them away because they just weren't my style. :-p It would mean a huge lifestyle adaptation for me personally, you know? Living strictly by the clock.
For breastfeeding - I do think it's possible to have a 100% breastfed baby sleep through. In fact I have seen it work for friends. But each woman's milk flow is soo different in volume per feeding and each baby's eating style is different in terms of amount they demand per feeding. You can influence that by adopting schedules that make baby hungrier at certain times so they'll try to drink larger volumes, but there are still physical limits to baby's tummy size and mom's milk production that limit that. I'm pretty sure my boobs didn't make a lot of milk per feeding and the urgency in his cries convinced me he was hungry. So I fed him. And I don't regret it. The # of feeds at night refuced over time at his own pace naturally. At 1 year I cut the night feed off because it was more of a habit than anything and he was barely drinking anymore. But until he started regularly eating solids, I think he honestly needed it and I didn't appreciate the pressure from people who seemed to believe there's a science to this that can/should apply to everyone. They meant well, but f%@# off.
Agree with you 100% on exposure to food. Even if they reject some things, it's good to keep offering it and to let them see you eating it (and preferably other kids too). They're little copy cats! And - don't cook them their own dinner if they don't like what's served. I'll offer a piece of bread or something so he doesn't go to bed starving, but I also want to motivate him to eat what we eat. Which in the toddler years is what they want anyway. That peer pressure/role modeling from kids their age gets more and more important though, I think.
I love "the pause", exposing them to many foods, hopefully having a well mannered child in a restaurant, having adult time, saying hello when you walk into a room, allowing children to just play and toddle.
+1 on the structured meal and snack times probably being a fail. I am structured in meals, but I'm definitely a snacker myself sooooo I don't know about that one.
My best friend, I love her dearly. Her son....does not eat, can't be taken to a restaurant, doesn't play on his own, thinks he's the center of the universe (because well he is to her, as will mine be for me) but you know? She's a great mom but it scared the crap out of me to think that having a child = her life. I've been around plenty of better mannered children to know that it doesn't have to be that way, but knowing she's a great mom, not a pushover and it STILL is the way it is had me like whoa. It was helpful to see that maybe there are reasons that things are the way they are. Things I can do differently.
It was nice to read a book that showed a parenting style that makes sense to me. How it's more about preparing them. How they can be the center of your heart without thinking they are the center of the universe. Less instant gratification and more long haul type stuff.
My brain is kind of all over the place bc I finished the book a few weeks ago and have the memory of a goldfish these days, but definitely 2 thumbs up from me on this one.