I looooove white lights on all the things. I mix in some multi-color strands because The Toddler loves them, but if he didn’t care then I wouldn’t bother.
I especially love white lights outside with snow and it's all glowy and lovely. *sigh* I hate living in the desert.
So, since I'm someone who has encouraged caution when it comes to throwing your own baby shower, I'm pretty sure that I'm one of the targets, too. I said before and I'll say it again. It seems that how people view throwing your own shower is regional. Where I'm from, people would probably show up and paste smiles on their faces but you'd better believe that everyone would then talk behind your back about how tacky it was (to them). Some areas a person can throw their own shower and no one bats an eye. Especially if you're a transplant from place B to place A and may not be as familiar with the norms there, I just think it's worth considering how it will be received and then making your choice with full knowledge of how it may go over. If a person decides that people may think it's tacky but it's not a cultural norm they care to indulge, power to 'em. There are plenty of cultural norms that I've evaluated and rejected.
I do absolutely think it's distasteful when people openly say that they're going to throw their own because no one else will throw a party good enough. Can you imagine offering to put your time and money into hosting a shower and then having someone turn you down because they don't think that your party would measure up to their standards? And I'm not talking about won't honor some things that are truly important like having all of the people who are important in your life regardless of gender or would insist on doing the melted candy bars in diapers game (or would deny you your very favorite baby shower game of melted candy bars in diapers). That's one where people need to step back and reevaluate priorities. Are pictures and appearances really more important than these real people?
As for feeling bad about people throwing/not throwing or attending/not showers and parties, first, I think people need to step back and look at it as a reflection on those people and not themselves. I've said it to my sister a million times in the most caring way possible, sometimes it's not about (the royal) you. Everyone has their own ish going on. Maybe your friend didn't offer because she's actually faking it through a bout of depression and is hanging by a thread or she's just busy or she's struggling with IF and cannot face it. Sometimes you'll never know and sometimes you'll find out later what was going on and realize that it had nothing to do with you. Maybe it was just a terrible day for it and it just so happened that everyone really did already have other obligations they can't get out of. Or, sometimes, life events are just a magnifier for what's really going on and forces people to face the truth. Sometimes people you thought were friends, you realize are actually just drinking buddies. And that's fine. But now you know so you don't make the mistake of thinking you're friends. Sometimes they're actually just cruddy people who you've kept around because it was easier than breaking up. Or sometimes you realize that someone you thought was a drinking buddy is really a friend. For a minute I felt bad when I was making a list of our friends for a shower because it doesn't seem like that many when I stop and write it down. But then I looked at the amazing group we have and I'm so thankful for them.
In other news, blue tone "white" LED Christmas lights are garbage. Warm tone lights are where it's at.
And I started reading Ina May's Guide to Childbirth or whatever the exact title is. I'm only in the birth stories section. Normally I'm a sucker for a good birth story. A lot of these are getting eye rolls. I don't think that horror stories of hospital births in the 70's are useful or helpful in modern editions. I understand that there are a lot of hospitals in the U.S. that still have a ways to go but I also don't think it's fair to make all hospitals seem so horrible. I haven't had the full experience but mine at least has the trappings (birthing balls, bars, tubs in every room, etc.) and professes to trying to make it closer to a home/birthing center experience but with everything there if medical intervention becomes necessary. A lot are trying to do a lot better. Let's be realistic about the modern hospital birth experience. And if anyone were to take her clothes off and get into bed with me, instead of being thrilled with the beauty of her laboring with me, I'd call security. That's just me.
Me: 34 DH: 38 Married: June 2011 TTC since Feb 2016 BFP#1: 7/7/16 MMC: 8/16/16 BFP#2: 5/8/17 - CP BFP#3: 6/27/17 EDD: 3/10/18
@kiki75 bahaha at this: “And if anyone were to take her clothes off and get into bed with me, instead of being thrilled with the beauty of her laboring with me, I'd call security.” So much yes.
UO: I love Christmas and trees and have collected a ton of ornaments from our travels or that are special to us so I have three trees up. And I would have one in every room if I could. Lol
I’m a little sad I’m not having a shower this go around— but I get it. This is baby 3.. first two were 5+ years apart and different sex.. this baby is only 4 years apart. BUT my family has always said for my aunts/cousins “every baby deserves a celebration!” My family totally does showers to celebrate the baby, not so much to shower the Mom and I’ve always loved that. So.. I’m a little heartbroken, in my family’s eyes, this baby isn’t getting a celebration like all the rest— especially since it has been so trying to make this pregnancy happen.
Maybe I’m just sensitive. I don’t know. I would even be happy if people just came and hung out and wrote the baby notes. I would serve some fun snacks and everyone could be on their merry way. I don’t want gifts. I just don’t want baby to look back and see it’s siblings had a special party.. is this silly of me?
I think it's kind of funny that shower convos can get so heated. I *know* etiquette is a big deal for a lot of people, and while I can respect wanting to stick with and respect traditions and norms and manners for YOURSELF, I think the ultimate goal in sticking to etiquette is to stay classy, to put it simply. But part of being classy is the ability to understand that not everyone was raised or has the knowledge or the cares to follow the same rules of etiquette. I think the classiest move of all is just go with it when someone isn't following etiquette as you know it. Worry about keeping ourselves classy, that's the ultimate in etiquette as far as I'm concerned. Smiling through gritted teeth and bad-mouthing people behind their backs because they used wording you think is improper in an invite is an example of being classless. I can't stand that shiz.
and FWIW, I'm addressing NO ONE specifically here. I'm speed reading to catch up before I head home for the day.
***March '18 October Siggy Challenge: Halloween Costume Fails***
@chasingroygbiv I think I would feel really sad too, in your position. I’ve always felt the same way, that showers are about the baby and less about the mom. And I can definitely see it being even more sad when this is your third, and one you worked so hard for, and they’re the only one not getting a shower.
Can I ask why your family is choosing not to throw you a shower? Could you maybe just invite some close friends/family to a little something-something at a restaurant and have a special book/large card available for them to sign?
On your statement about not wanting baby to look back and feel left out, I don’t think you need to worry about that. I mean, have you ever looked at pictures of the the baby shower your mother had for you? I don’t think you’re silly for feeling the way you do, but I also think you’re worrying a little too much.
@kiki75 I think every once in a while it can be about yourself..... and that is okay. When I was *TW* in the physical act of having a miscarriage, I mean - legit middle of the process. I found it within myself to get up and go wedding/bridesmaid dress shopping with my BFF and her girls. It has taken months to organize a day where we could all go and this was vey special for her.... so despite the emotional pain and physical discomfort, not to mention the need to get undressed multiple times to try on dresses while wearing a huge pad, I went. *End TW*
Now that is obviously an extreme example - but quite frankly, if somebody can't be mature enough to suck up once in a while ( and it really is once and a while... wedding... baby... these things don't happen every other weekend) and put on a good face and celebrate a big moment with someone they care for - then to me that is more selfish and self centered than throwing oneself a party.
of course things DO happen and last minute issues and complications do come up .... but let's be honest. people bail at the last minute all the time because and make up BS excuses to not do something because they are tired and simply dont want/feel like going once the moment arrives.
Lastly - everyone who has brought up hosting their own shower on these threads has indicated that their motives for doing so were because nobody offered - not because they felt they could throw a better party themselves. Why should a new mom or FTM miss out on this experience simply because they don't have a person capable of doing this for them. It's not tacky to want to celebrate what to them- is probably the most important thing that has ever happened to them.
Those who cast judgements on others for making decisions that feel right by them - are in the wrong. I'm really getting tired of people being cut down over this.
@bb3vj3n I have no idea what thread it was in, but earlier on there actually were more than one member who said they planned their own because they just wanted it to be perfect and they didn't trust others to do it "right". I have no memory of who they were or if they still post, but it is a thing that was said. Which, to me, seemed pretty crazy regardless of what side of this conversation you're on.
I think the concept of a baby shower being for the baby and not the mom is a completely foreign concept to me. I have no idea if my mom had a baby shower for me. I have never bothered to ask. It wouldn't matter to me one way or the other. I would estimate that MOST people wouldn't care. I think baby showers are for the pleasure of the mother. Which isn't a bad thing. But I just can't wrap my mind around the concept of it being for someone who will likely never know if the event even occurred or not.
I have to say some of the wording here is getting a little extreme and I'm not sure it's necessary. No one is being "cut down". People on this board are going to express their personal perspective on lots of things far more sensitive than this topic. If someone has a perspective that you don't share but doesn't personally target or attack you then I think you can just offer your differing perspective and move on. Saying that someone explaining their opinion is "destructive" or hinting that it's bashing other women is taking it to an extreme I find inappropriate.
Odds are we disagree on a variety of topics. I don't plan on personally attacking anyone on any of these things unless I feel they are doing something wildly dangerous or illegal. You wanna plan your own shower? Seriously go for it. I genuinely do not care and I won't lose sleep over it. So (I say this with only kindness and no snootiness) no one should get overly worked up that I personally wouldn't.
@kiki75 I think every once in a while it can be about yourself..... and that is okay. When I was *TW* in the physical act of having a miscarriage, I mean - legit middle of the process. I found it within myself to get up and go wedding/bridesmaid dress shopping with my BFF and her girls. It has taken months to organize a day where we could all go and this was vey special for her.... so despite the emotional pain and physical discomfort, not to mention the need to get undressed multiple times to try on dresses while wearing a huge pad, I went. *End TW*
Now that is obviously an extreme example - but quite frankly, if somebody can't be mature enough to suck up once in a while ( and it really is once and a while... wedding... baby... these things don't happen every other weekend) and put on a good face and celebrate a big moment with someone they care for - then to me that is more selfish and self centered than throwing oneself a party.
of course things DO happen and last minute issues and complications do come up .... but let's be honest. people bail at the last minute all the time because and make up BS excuses to not do something because they are tired and simply dont want/feel like going once the moment arrives.
Lastly - everyone who has brought up hosting their own shower on these threads has indicated that their motives for doing so were because nobody offered - not because they felt they could throw a better party themselves. Why should a new mom or FTM miss out on this experience simply because they don't have a person capable of doing this for them. It's not tacky to want to celebrate what to them- is probably the most important thing that has ever happened to them.
Those who cast judgements on others for making decisions that feel right by them - are in the wrong. I'm really getting tired of people being cut down over this.
I'm having a really hard time with you calling women who are going through infertility and loss not wanting to attend a baby shower selfish. Everybody goes through these types of experiences differently - while one may be able to put on a brave face, another may not.
Me: 30 H: 30 Dx: PCOS Married: June 2013 TTC#1: January 2015 BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16 TTC#2: June 2017 BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
@becausescience agreed. Over the two years it took me to conceive - through failed treatment after failed treatment - I did keep dragging myself to showers. I even hosted several. And it fucking sucked (I straight up got tipsy at one because I JUST COULDN'T) and I wouldn't expect others to do that to themselves. For my own shower I am inviting my good friend who had a loss last year and has been unsuccessful so far at conceiving again - I invited her because I know it sucks even harder to not be invited at all and feel left out, but I expressed heavily that should she feel even a little upset that I would much rather she stay home and protect her heart. That is way more important than coming to my shower and sitting there with a fake smile on her face, hurting in her heart.
@chasingroygbiv have you thought about doing a “sip and see” for your baby after the birth. It could be a special introduction to the family and a specific celebration for this baby.
@becausescience I never once mentioned women struggling with infertility....i was speaking only and specifically about one of my own personal real and true experiences and am not implying that everyone must abbr should react the same way as I did/ have in the past.
I think this conversation is quickly turning a corner into a conversation that is about something totally different from the original topic. so I'm going to tread lightly as I legitimately am not trying to turn this into an argument.
All I am saying - at the end of the day - is if another woman wants to have a shower, and wants to throw it herself, or not, or request gifts, or not.... its her decision. Calling her tacky or saying that she needs a lesson in etiquette is catty. I'm sorry if you all disagree.
@antoto I don't recall that particular thread, but even so, although I personally disagree with it..... it's none of my business so i'll reserve my judgements. That's all I'm trying to say.
@bb3vj3n I don't think any of us were ever under the impression that we were about to stop someone from hosting their own shower. That is their life and their own choice and I haven't seen anyone actively trying to prevent others from doing whatever they feel like. But also we ARE allowed to have our own opinions on broad topics. There are people out there who think lots of things I do are not just rude but unethical. I think expecting to go on a public discussion board like this and expecting no one to express an opinion that runs contrary to our own is a little unrealistic. I have never once commented on anyone's personal experience. I don't intend to be catty. But I do have every bit as much of a right to say "I don't think that's tasteful" as you do saying "I think it's totally acceptable" when we are speaking generally about the subject.
my point was that some people had havent said "its of my opinion that this is distasteful" which is a respectful way of sharing an opinion.
people instead have said it's "tacky" "classless" "selfish" etc. that is where I think the link be should be drawn. it's one thing to disagree ...i mean, this is the UO board after all, but those types of words are hurtful.
@bb3vj3n that’s the perfect way of putting it. There’s nothing wrong with disagreeing respectfully and being tactful and kind about the way we talk about our disagreements.
This thread shows why UO are exactly that....unpopular. FWIW I'm an introvert and couldn't care less about having a shower. However my mom is so geeked about her first grandbaby that to me its worth me being pressed for a couple of hours for her to be happy. Same way I felt about my wedding. 250+ people super excited about out union was worth me not getting to eat lol in the end we had a great story to tell of getting to eat room service at 3am. And materialism sucks all the way. Because in the end you can't take it with you. Why be concerned with what you don't have and the next person does....
@bb3vj3n Hmmm noted. I guess it didn't really occur to me that "that's distasteful" and "that's tacky" were really that different but if one really hurts people and the other doesn't then that's good to know.
Damn lady @cford08 might need to nominate you for sainthood for doing a 250 person wedding and also being introverted. I would have passed the f out. Mine had 80 people and I was completely overwhelmed by that.
@cford08 lol... my wedding had 28 people (we went super low key).....and I was still so nervous to walk down the aisle that my maid of honor had to literally slap me to get me to stop freaking out. 250+ and i'd have never made it!
@antoto@bb3vj3n girls that guest list was beastly. There were some heart palpitations had having to say things so personal to DH in front of all those folks. I just kept thinking this is for these folks. They want a peek into our happy- we get to have this everyday. And it'll all be over at midnight
@cford08 you didn’t eat at your own wedding??????? Girl no. Tell me it’s not true. I ate all night. If someone wanted to talk to me they could come to my table and talk to me. It’s MY special day. I’m gonna eat.
@antoto I think some words just have different connotations to different people. For me, if someone were to tell me “hey what you’re doing is a little distasteful/inappropriate.” I would register that as coming from a place of someone trying to simply inform me of something. Whereas if someone came up to me and said “you’re being tacky.” Honestly I would get offended because that does come off like the person is trying to be hurtful. They might all mean the same thing, but they come off differently.
I love the English language. *heart eyes*
@bb3vj3n@becausescience on the topic of sucking it up and putting negative feelings aside to support someone, I see both sides. I’ve struggled with depression, anxiety, attempted suicide, eating disorders, miscarriage... but I’ve never used those things as an excuse to not show up to something or be there for someone. However, I acknowledge that I’m fairly good at compartmentalism and putting my negative feelings away for a few hours so I can be there for someone I care for. I would never expect everyone else in my life to be the same way, and to show up to everything. I don’t think it’s okay for someone to use their struggles as an excuse for EVERYTHING because at some point you do need to push yourself past those boundaries, but I do think it’s very important for people to take care of their hearts, and sometimes that means stepping aside and sitting out for an event. And that’s okay.
@cford08 we invited around 240 to our wedding and I have to admit that I was thankful only 160/170 showed up. (Especially from a budget perspective!) Although I was so hopped up on nerves and champagne and excitement that we probably could have had 1700 guests and I wouldn’t have noticed.
I think sometimes people's expectations color how they read what other people wrote.
What I have understood that people wrote is pretty much, "Some people might think it's tacky. If your people don't or you don't mind, go for it." And I don't know about this specific board because I've been on TB for a long time but I absolutely have seen people cite other people's inferior party planning skills as their reason for planning their own. I am completely entitled to the opinion that that is rude.
@bb3vj3n Excruciating as it was, doing bridesmaid stuff while *TW* in the middle of a miscarriage is not the same as planning or attending a baby shower while dealing with miscarriage or infertility. And of course you do what you can. I threw a baby shower for my friends not long after a missed miscarriage and while almost qualified for IF. So I am quite familiar with sucking it up for people I care about. But at the same time, I would never expect a friend going through those things to plan a baby shower for me. And those friends did ask after my MC if I was still up for doing it or if I wanted to skip. Because that's what friends from each side do for each other. Sometimes you can handle it, sometimes you can't. I don't begrudge anyone in that situation recognizing that they can't be good company and skipping it. Nor do I expect anyone to share the details with me so I can decide if their situation is bad enough to warrant a pass. A cousin, the daughter of the aunt who has generously offered to do our shower, is facing a pretty bad IF diagnosis. I have emphasized multiple times that I don't want this to taint her time home for the holidays at all (since it will be shortly after). My only hope for her is that she takes care of herself.
And a related UO: I don't believe that anyone is obligated to support everything someone does or says simply because they share a gender.
Me: 34 DH: 38 Married: June 2011 TTC since Feb 2016 BFP#1: 7/7/16 MMC: 8/16/16 BFP#2: 5/8/17 - CP BFP#3: 6/27/17 EDD: 3/10/18
wow! so to me you just crossed a major line... you just totally made it personal. I shared an extremely Personal story about what was one of the hardest days of my life ... and I very purposely drew zero specific comparisons (ie - infertility) because I understand that everybody has their own existence and story. All I said is we all have moments where supporting another is difficult, but there are times I believe (and not always) that you should put your feelings aside to support another person. Somebody else drew a comparison to infertility... not me. in fact, if you read my comments - you will see that I specifically chose not to pursue that conversation...because I do not believe that type of comparison is ever healthy . pain is pain and iv don't think people should be competing over whose is worse.
to flat out say that my experience of *TW* miscarrying while out trying on dresses with other bridesmaids is not the same or as difficult as someone else who is living their own version of a total nightmare is completely inappropriate and I can only assume your intent there was to hurt me. And congratulations - you succeeded. I'm now sitting in my car in a parking lot because I'm too upset to drive. How dare you!
that was so wrong on so many levels. that wasn't an unpopular opinion - that was a total cut to my own experience.
I'm sorry that you find the idea of women supporting women so vulgar. excuse me for believing there is enough hate and anger and ugliness in this world that I choose to try to support other people, even those i disagree with, by having a conversation that is first and foremost respectful. you can share a different opinion with someone and still be kind.
I usually keep quiet in these times, but I can't. I'm a firm believer in not comparing ones nightmare to someone else's. That's not fair. What may be a horrific experience for one, may not be for someone else, and that's ok. But to compare, and decide as a whole, that one is worse than the other isn't ok. Supporting each other isn't about agreeing, it's about seeing all perspectives respectivley, and having a sense of understanding.
wow! so to me you just crossed a major line... you just totally made it personal. I shared an extremely Personal story about what was one of the hardest days of my life ... and I very purposely drew zero specific comparisons (ie - infertility) because I understand that everybody has their own existence and story. All I said is we all have moments where supporting another is difficult, but there are times I believe (and not always) that you should put your feelings aside to support another person. Somebody else drew a comparison to infertility... not me. in fact, if you read my comments - you will see that I specifically chose not to pursue that conversation...because I do not believe that type of comparison is ever healthy . pain is pain and iv don't think people should be competing over whose is worse.
to flat out say that my experience of *TW* miscarrying while out trying on dresses with other bridesmaids is not the same or as difficult as someone else who is living their own version of a total nightmare is completely inappropriate and I can only assume your intent there was to hurt me. And congratulations - you succeeded. I'm now sitting in my car in a parking lot because I'm too upset to drive. How dare you!
that was so wrong on so many levels. that wasn't an unpopular opinion - that was a total cut to my own experience.
I'm sorry that you find the idea of women supporting women so vulgar. excuse me for believing there is enough hate and anger and ugliness in this world that I choose to try to support other people, even those i disagree with, by having a conversation that is first and foremost respectful. you can share a different opinion with someone and still be kind.
I absolutely felt like you made it personal when in a reply TO ME which does mean you were calling ME out, you brought that up in a way that felt like it was absolutely personal. If you reread the original comment you were responding to you would see why I felt that way. I have been there. I can say that when I was there, either time, I could have made it through a day of wedding stuff but not baby stuff. I did not devalue your experience. I simply think that it's not exactly apples to apples.
Reread what I wrote. You have put a lot of words in my mouth that I did not say. I never said that supporting anyone is vulgar. I said the following.
And a related UO: I don't believe that anyone is obligated to support everything someone does or says simply because they share a gender.
Not at all the same.
I recognized that your experience was excruciating. That was the word I used. I think that thinking back to it was triggering and I'm sorry that as a result you misinterpreted my intent as a result. I hope that you will recognize that what you wrote TO ME was triggering and offensive to me also.
Me: 34 DH: 38 Married: June 2011 TTC since Feb 2016 BFP#1: 7/7/16 MMC: 8/16/16 BFP#2: 5/8/17 - CP BFP#3: 6/27/17 EDD: 3/10/18
I'm sorry if my intent wasn't clear. Based on the comment it was in response to, I felt like sharing that story about sucking it up was dismissive of those who sometimes aren't able to suck it up.
Me: 34 DH: 38 Married: June 2011 TTC since Feb 2016 BFP#1: 7/7/16 MMC: 8/16/16 BFP#2: 5/8/17 - CP BFP#3: 6/27/17 EDD: 3/10/18
@bb3vj3n FWIW I don't believe that was @kiki75's intention or point to her post at all. I think she was just pointing out that a baby shower specifically may be very triggering for anyone struggling with reproductive related problems. I was pretty surprised that you had seemed to suggested that because you had done something hard everyone else should be able to hack it as well too. I think that's what kiki was reacting to. You may not know kiki very well yet (but you should! she's lovely!) but I have had a while to get to know her and she definitely wasn't trying to take a personal jab at you as a loss mom. I'm sorry you were hit so hard by those comments and I hope you see that wasn't the intention here.
@kiki75 my comment to you was that it is okay to have a day that is about you every once in a while - and that that is ok and not selfish. my story was an example of a time that I personally made a personal sacrifice to support someone else.
there are so many women on these boards - and although I dpi feel I have comer to know you a little bit - i don't remember every members personal path to getting pregnant and made no reference to your struggles with infertility. so your correlation there would be a great example of what you say is "colouring words with personal experience".
Now, if what I said was a trigger for you - I am sorry for that. but i think the key difference here is I never said your personal experience and story (or anyone's for that matter) was not as difficult as mine was. you on the other hand told me that my experience was not ass painful or held the same merit simply because I was doing "bridesmaid" stuff and not "baby" stuff. that's not a trigger, that's a direct comparison of my own experience to that of someone else's. you used my own story against me.
@bb3vj3n I mean to be fair YOU were the one using your own personal story as an example for why others should suck up whatever they are dealing with and go to the shower, indicating that no one had any excuse. It's hard to respond to that without bringing up your story. I think explaining that a baby shower might be especially triggering is just sort of a logical leap and not a personal attack.
I didn't say that because I did it...everybody should. I just said it is possible to be going through something and still support another person's big day. there is no such thing as a rule that applies to every single situation - it was just an example.
what I'm trying to say here - is that it was my example - and I didn't compare myself to anybody else specifically. That story is mine to share, and I chose to do so because despite the current climate of this particular thread, I have gotten tons of support on these boards ( including both from yourself and @kiki75). I am allowed to use my experience to share a sentiment - what is not ok is for somebody else who does not know me, to throw it back at me saying it is a "less than" experience than someone else.
anyways.... it's almost midnight here and I'm going to bed. So I'm officially bowing out of this one for the sake of my tomorrow self not being totally exhausted.
I did not say that it was less than. I'm sorry that what I wrote could be interpreted that way. But that was not the intent. My only intent was to say that this isn't the suck it up Olympics. If you go back to the comment that sparked this disaster, I was saying that I do believe in granting people grace and if they can't throw a baby shower for me or come to mine because they're dealing with their own stuff--whether I know about it or not--I believe in not taking it personally.
Me: 34 DH: 38 Married: June 2011 TTC since Feb 2016 BFP#1: 7/7/16 MMC: 8/16/16 BFP#2: 5/8/17 - CP BFP#3: 6/27/17 EDD: 3/10/18
I’ve been gone a week and the first thread I chirp into is of course UO! Lol
I’m in the camp of “you do you” when it comes to baby showers (and most other things). I used to think @antoto & @kiki75 were being cold whenever the conversation turned to etiquette.... but (totally making an assumption here) they were raised with a very high value placed on manners/etiquette. That is great because so many people are lacking such. We all have things that we are sticklers for and will defend/promote. So now, however many months after we have all been communicating, I realize they are not being mean.... they are just being themselves. Also, @antoto I remember the person saying she was throwing a shower because nobody else would do it to her standards. I believe it was a drive by.
*Tw* @bb3vj3n it must have been tough to share that experience. It always is when you’re sharing tough personal details trying to further a conversation and it gets spun out. Sometimes we do need to take time for ourselves and be aware of how these events will affect us. Less than a month after my daughter died, I was invited to a baby shower. She didn’t just invite me once though. It was multiple times and eventually I snapped about not going (I could’ve handled it better) but the multiple invites felt aggressive. Anyway, when I snapped she said that I needed to stop making it about myself and that life goes on. I am very very glad I didn’t put myself out to attend her shower (we no longer speak). Again, thanks for putting yourself out there to share an experience.
@syssa-o I'm so very sorry that your "friend" did that to you. The appropriate thing in that situation would have been to send you a text when she knew it would be an okay time for you to deal with the emotions, letting you know that the invitation was coming and letting you know that there are ZERO expectations, she just didn't want you to feel left out and for you to know you'd be missed. Sounds like a good thing she's out of your life. That's really terrible.
Me: 34 DH: 38 Married: June 2011 TTC since Feb 2016 BFP#1: 7/7/16 MMC: 8/16/16 BFP#2: 5/8/17 - CP BFP#3: 6/27/17 EDD: 3/10/18
Re: UO Thursday
I do absolutely think it's distasteful when people openly say that they're going to throw their own because no one else will throw a party good enough. Can you imagine offering to put your time and money into hosting a shower and then having someone turn you down because they don't think that your party would measure up to their standards? And I'm not talking about won't honor some things that are truly important like having all of the people who are important in your life regardless of gender or would insist on doing the melted candy bars in diapers game (or would deny you your very favorite baby shower game of melted candy bars in diapers). That's one where people need to step back and reevaluate priorities. Are pictures and appearances really more important than these real people?
As for feeling bad about people throwing/not throwing or attending/not showers and parties, first, I think people need to step back and look at it as a reflection on those people and not themselves. I've said it to my sister a million times in the most caring way possible, sometimes it's not about (the royal) you. Everyone has their own ish going on. Maybe your friend didn't offer because she's actually faking it through a bout of depression and is hanging by a thread or she's just busy or she's struggling with IF and cannot face it. Sometimes you'll never know and sometimes you'll find out later what was going on and realize that it had nothing to do with you. Maybe it was just a terrible day for it and it just so happened that everyone really did already have other obligations they can't get out of. Or, sometimes, life events are just a magnifier for what's really going on and forces people to face the truth. Sometimes people you thought were friends, you realize are actually just drinking buddies. And that's fine. But now you know so you don't make the mistake of thinking you're friends. Sometimes they're actually just cruddy people who you've kept around because it was easier than breaking up. Or sometimes you realize that someone you thought was a drinking buddy is really a friend. For a minute I felt bad when I was making a list of our friends for a shower because it doesn't seem like that many when I stop and write it down. But then I looked at the amazing group we have and I'm so thankful for them.
In other news, blue tone "white" LED Christmas lights are garbage. Warm tone lights are where it's at.
And I started reading Ina May's Guide to Childbirth or whatever the exact title is. I'm only in the birth stories section. Normally I'm a sucker for a good birth story. A lot of these are getting eye rolls. I don't think that horror stories of hospital births in the 70's are useful or helpful in modern editions. I understand that there are a lot of hospitals in the U.S. that still have a ways to go but I also don't think it's fair to make all hospitals seem so horrible. I haven't had the full experience but mine at least has the trappings (birthing balls, bars, tubs in every room, etc.) and professes to trying to make it closer to a home/birthing center experience but with everything there if medical intervention becomes necessary. A lot are trying to do a lot better. Let's be realistic about the modern hospital birth experience. And if anyone were to take her clothes off and get into bed with me, instead of being thrilled with the beauty of her laboring with me, I'd call security. That's just me.
Married: June 2011
TTC since Feb 2016
BFP#1: 7/7/16 MMC: 8/16/16
BFP#2: 5/8/17 - CP
BFP#3: 6/27/17 EDD: 3/10/18
UO: I love Christmas and trees and have collected a ton of ornaments from our travels or that are special to us so I have three trees up. And I would have one in every room if I could. Lol
I’m a little sad I’m not having a shower this go around— but I get it. This is baby 3.. first two were 5+ years apart and different sex.. this baby is only 4 years apart. BUT my family has always said for my aunts/cousins “every baby deserves a celebration!” My family totally does showers to celebrate the baby, not so much to shower the Mom and I’ve always loved that. So.. I’m a little heartbroken, in my family’s eyes, this baby isn’t getting a celebration like all the rest— especially since it has been so trying to make this pregnancy happen.
Maybe I’m just sensitive. I don’t know. I would even be happy if people just came and hung out and wrote the baby notes. I would serve some fun snacks and everyone could be on their merry way. I don’t want gifts. I just don’t want baby to look back and see it’s siblings had a special party.. is this silly of me?
and FWIW, I'm addressing NO ONE specifically here. I'm speed reading to catch up before I head home for the day.
Can I ask why your family is choosing not to throw you a shower? Could you maybe just invite some close friends/family to a little something-something at a restaurant and have a special book/large card available for them to sign?
On your statement about not wanting baby to look back and feel left out, I don’t think you need to worry about that. I mean, have you ever looked at pictures of the the baby shower your mother had for you? I don’t think you’re silly for feeling the way you do, but I also think you’re worrying a little too much.
@bettyvonsomethingstein I love everything you said.
@kiki75 I think every once in a while it can be about yourself..... and that is okay. When I was *TW* in the physical act of having a miscarriage, I mean - legit middle of the process. I found it within myself to get up and go wedding/bridesmaid dress shopping with my BFF and her girls. It has taken months to organize a day where we could all go and this was vey special for her.... so despite the emotional pain and physical discomfort, not to mention the need to get undressed multiple times to try on dresses while wearing a huge pad, I went. *End TW*
Now that is obviously an extreme example - but quite frankly, if somebody can't be mature enough to suck up once in a while ( and it really is once and a while... wedding... baby... these things don't happen every other weekend) and put on a good face and celebrate a big moment with someone they care for - then to me that is more selfish and self centered than throwing oneself a party.
of course things DO happen and last minute issues and complications do come up .... but let's be honest. people bail at the last minute all the time because and make up BS excuses to not do something because they are tired and simply dont want/feel like going once the moment arrives.
Lastly - everyone who has brought up hosting their own shower on these threads has indicated that their motives for doing so were because nobody offered - not because they felt they could throw a better party themselves. Why should a new mom or FTM miss out on this experience simply because they don't have a person capable of doing this for them. It's not tacky to want to celebrate what to them- is probably the most important thing that has ever happened to them.
Those who cast judgements on others for making decisions that feel right by them - are in the wrong. I'm really getting tired of people being cut down over this.
I think the concept of a baby shower being for the baby and not the mom is a completely foreign concept to me. I have no idea if my mom had a baby shower for me. I have never bothered to ask. It wouldn't matter to me one way or the other. I would estimate that MOST people wouldn't care. I think baby showers are for the pleasure of the mother. Which isn't a bad thing. But I just can't wrap my mind around the concept of it being for someone who will likely never know if the event even occurred or not.
I have to say some of the wording here is getting a little extreme and I'm not sure it's necessary. No one is being "cut down". People on this board are going to express their personal perspective on lots of things far more sensitive than this topic. If someone has a perspective that you don't share but doesn't personally target or attack you then I think you can just offer your differing perspective and move on. Saying that someone explaining their opinion is "destructive" or hinting that it's bashing other women is taking it to an extreme I find inappropriate.
Odds are we disagree on a variety of topics. I don't plan on personally attacking anyone on any of these things unless I feel they are doing something wildly dangerous or illegal. You wanna plan your own shower? Seriously go for it. I genuinely do not care and I won't lose sleep over it. So (I say this with only kindness and no snootiness) no one should get overly worked up that I personally wouldn't.
Dx: PCOS
Married: June 2013
TTC#1: January 2015
BFP #1 8/24/15 | MC 9/3/15 at 6w2d
BFP #2: 12/12/15 | DD born 8/29/16
TTC#2: June 2017
BFP #3: 7/15/17 | DS born 3/20/18
I think this conversation is quickly turning a corner into a conversation that is about something totally different from the original topic. so I'm going to tread lightly as I legitimately am not trying to turn this into an argument.
All I am saying - at the end of the day - is if another woman wants to have a shower, and wants to throw it herself, or not, or request gifts, or not.... its her decision. Calling her tacky or saying that she needs a lesson in etiquette is catty. I'm sorry if you all disagree.
@antoto I don't recall that particular thread, but even so, although I personally disagree with it..... it's none of my business so i'll reserve my judgements. That's all I'm trying to say.
my point was that some people had havent said "its of my opinion that this is distasteful" which is a respectful way of sharing an opinion.
people instead have said it's "tacky" "classless" "selfish" etc. that is where I think the link be should be drawn. it's one thing to disagree ...i mean, this is the UO board after all, but those types of words are hurtful.
FWIW I'm an introvert and couldn't care less about having a shower. However my mom is so geeked about her first grandbaby that to me its worth me being pressed for a couple of hours for her to be happy.
Same way I felt about my wedding. 250+ people super excited about out union was worth me not getting to eat lol in the end we had a great story to tell of getting to eat room service at 3am.
And materialism sucks all the way. Because in the end you can't take it with you. Why be concerned with what you don't have and the next person does....
@antoto I think some words just have different connotations to different people. For me, if someone were to tell me “hey what you’re doing is a little distasteful/inappropriate.” I would register that as coming from a place of someone trying to simply inform me of something. Whereas if someone came up to me and said “you’re being tacky.” Honestly I would get offended because that does come off like the person is trying to be hurtful. They might all mean the same thing, but they come off differently.
I love the English language. *heart eyes*
@bb3vj3n @becausescience on the topic of sucking it up and putting negative feelings aside to support someone, I see both sides. I’ve struggled with depression, anxiety, attempted suicide, eating disorders, miscarriage... but I’ve never used those things as an excuse to not show up to something or be there for someone. However, I acknowledge that I’m fairly good at compartmentalism and putting my negative feelings away for a few hours so I can be there for someone I care for. I would never expect everyone else in my life to be the same way, and to show up to everything. I don’t think it’s okay for someone to use their struggles as an excuse for EVERYTHING because at some point you do need to push yourself past those boundaries, but I do think it’s very important for people to take care of their hearts, and sometimes that means stepping aside and sitting out for an event. And that’s okay.
What I have understood that people wrote is pretty much, "Some people might think it's tacky. If your people don't or you don't mind, go for it." And I don't know about this specific board because I've been on TB for a long time but I absolutely have seen people cite other people's inferior party planning skills as their reason for planning their own. I am completely entitled to the opinion that that is rude.
@bb3vj3n Excruciating as it was, doing bridesmaid stuff while *TW* in the middle of a miscarriage is not the same as planning or attending a baby shower while dealing with miscarriage or infertility. And of course you do what you can. I threw a baby shower for my friends not long after a missed miscarriage and while almost qualified for IF. So I am quite familiar with sucking it up for people I care about. But at the same time, I would never expect a friend going through those things to plan a baby shower for me. And those friends did ask after my MC if I was still up for doing it or if I wanted to skip. Because that's what friends from each side do for each other. Sometimes you can handle it, sometimes you can't. I don't begrudge anyone in that situation recognizing that they can't be good company and skipping it. Nor do I expect anyone to share the details with me so I can decide if their situation is bad enough to warrant a pass. A cousin, the daughter of the aunt who has generously offered to do our shower, is facing a pretty bad IF diagnosis. I have emphasized multiple times that I don't want this to taint her time home for the holidays at all (since it will be shortly after). My only hope for her is that she takes care of herself.
And a related UO: I don't believe that anyone is obligated to support everything someone does or says simply because they share a gender.
Married: June 2011
TTC since Feb 2016
BFP#1: 7/7/16 MMC: 8/16/16
BFP#2: 5/8/17 - CP
BFP#3: 6/27/17 EDD: 3/10/18
wow! so to me you just crossed a major line... you just totally made it personal. I shared an extremely Personal story about what was one of the hardest days of my life ... and I very purposely drew zero specific comparisons (ie - infertility) because I understand that everybody has their own existence and story. All I said is we all have moments where supporting another is difficult, but there are times I believe (and not always) that you should put your feelings aside to support another person. Somebody else drew a comparison to infertility...
not me. in fact, if you read my comments - you will see that I specifically chose not to pursue that conversation...because I do not believe that type of comparison is ever healthy . pain is pain and iv don't think people should be competing over whose is worse.
to flat out say that my experience of *TW* miscarrying while out trying on dresses with other bridesmaids is not the same or as difficult as someone else who is living their own version of a total nightmare is completely inappropriate and I can only assume your intent there was to hurt me. And congratulations - you succeeded. I'm now sitting in my car in a parking lot because I'm too upset to drive. How dare you!
that was so wrong on so many levels. that wasn't an unpopular opinion - that was a total cut to my own experience.
I'm sorry that you find the idea of women supporting women so vulgar. excuse me for believing there is enough hate and anger and ugliness in this world that I choose to try to support other people, even those i disagree with, by having a conversation that is first and foremost respectful. you can share a different opinion with someone and still be kind.
Reread what I wrote. You have put a lot of words in my mouth that I did not say. I never said that supporting anyone is vulgar. I said the following. Not at all the same.
I recognized that your experience was excruciating. That was the word I used. I think that thinking back to it was triggering and I'm sorry that as a result you misinterpreted my intent as a result. I hope that you will recognize that what you wrote TO ME was triggering and offensive to me also.
Married: June 2011
TTC since Feb 2016
BFP#1: 7/7/16 MMC: 8/16/16
BFP#2: 5/8/17 - CP
BFP#3: 6/27/17 EDD: 3/10/18
Married: June 2011
TTC since Feb 2016
BFP#1: 7/7/16 MMC: 8/16/16
BFP#2: 5/8/17 - CP
BFP#3: 6/27/17 EDD: 3/10/18
there are so many women on these boards - and although I dpi feel I have comer to know you a little bit - i don't remember every members personal path to getting pregnant and made no reference to your struggles with infertility. so your correlation there would be a great example of what you say is "colouring words with personal experience".
Now, if what I said was a trigger for you - I am sorry for that. but i think the key difference here is I never said your personal experience and story (or anyone's for that matter) was not as difficult as mine was. you on the other hand told me that my experience was not ass painful or held the same merit simply because I was doing "bridesmaid" stuff and not "baby" stuff. that's not a trigger, that's a direct comparison of my own experience to that of someone else's. you used my own story against me.
I hope you can see the difference.
I didn't say that because I did it...everybody should. I just said it is possible to be going through something and still support another person's big day. there is no such thing as a rule that applies to every single situation - it was just an example.
what I'm trying to say here - is that it was my example - and I didn't compare myself to anybody else specifically. That story is mine to share, and I chose to do so because despite the current climate of this particular thread, I have gotten tons of support on these boards ( including both from yourself and @kiki75). I am allowed to use my experience to share a sentiment - what is not ok is for somebody else who does not know me, to throw it back at me saying it is a "less than" experience than someone else.
goodnight to all (sincerely)
Married: June 2011
TTC since Feb 2016
BFP#1: 7/7/16 MMC: 8/16/16
BFP#2: 5/8/17 - CP
BFP#3: 6/27/17 EDD: 3/10/18
I’m in the camp of “you do you” when it comes to baby showers (and most other things). I used to think @antoto & @kiki75 were being cold whenever the conversation turned to etiquette.... but (totally making an assumption here) they were raised with a very high value placed on manners/etiquette. That is great because so many people are lacking such. We all have things that we are sticklers for and will defend/promote. So now, however many months after we have all been communicating, I realize they are not being mean.... they are just being themselves. Also, @antoto I remember the person saying she was throwing a shower because nobody else would do it to her standards. I believe it was a drive by.
*Tw*
@bb3vj3n it must have been tough to share that experience. It always is when you’re sharing tough personal details trying to further a conversation and it gets spun out. Sometimes we do need to take time for ourselves and be aware of how these events will affect us. Less than a month after my daughter died, I was invited to a baby shower. She didn’t just invite me once though. It was multiple times and eventually I snapped about not going (I could’ve handled it better) but the multiple invites felt aggressive. Anyway, when I snapped she said that I needed to stop making it about myself and that life goes on. I am very very glad I didn’t put myself out to attend her shower (we no longer speak). Again, thanks for putting yourself out there to share an experience.
Married: June 2011
TTC since Feb 2016
BFP#1: 7/7/16 MMC: 8/16/16
BFP#2: 5/8/17 - CP
BFP#3: 6/27/17 EDD: 3/10/18