No Blastocysts IVF - D5 Transfer (New to Board)

cxsimo08 · September 2017

This is my first post. I'm not really sure how to start but I'm feeling at the end. I don't want a false sense of hope, I think I just want to talk to people who understand.

DH and I were diagnosed with unexplained infertility 2 years ago now. After 3 failed rounds of IUI, we did our first round of IVF in June. I had ~25 viable follicles but when they did the retrieval only 13 had eggs (the rest cysts?). My doctor wanted to do IVF all with natural fertilization (because of my age 30) but I insisted 1/2 were done with ICSI. I just didn't want to press the odds. Out of the 13 eggs harvested, 10 fertilized: 5 through natural insemination, 5 through ICSI. All looked good. But as I went to my day 5 transfer, my doctor had this terrible look on her face. She explained the 5 with natural insemination all arrested (and shriveled up) shortly after insemination and the 5 ICSI were slow growers, no blastocysts. They transplanted one egg that was starting to compact as a Hail Mary (more like a day 3 egg) which of course didn't take, the other 4 stopped growing and they threw them out. I was left with no eggs, still unexplained infertility and with less answers then when I started - the outcome was just so specific.

The results were devastating, but my doctor wanted to try again so this month we started with a slightly slightly different plan (estrogen patch instead of BC). This morning was my first monitoring and while I have 10 follicles growing on the left (very consistent with last time) I only have 3 on the right. This has never happened to me before, I usually have 10 and 10 at least. I know that for a lot of women 13 follicles would be wonderful, but given what happened last cycle, I'm breaking down. How can I start this with at a maximum half the eggs I did last time and expect a different outcome?

My question for you ladies is has this ever happened to anyone? My doctor said she has never seen it before (she brought our results from the last IVF to a panel of doctors for review and they agreed). If you haven't seen this but have had similar disappointment, how do you find the strength to have happiness still in your life? I feel like I'm gone; not even me anymore. It's like this thing that I've been building my whole life towards is no longer achievable. I just don't know what I am if I can't have children.

rachel2107 · September 2017

I completely understand your pain. My story is slightly different but I had similar mental struggles and a happy ending (in the process of my happy ending). I was diagnosed with unexplained infertility (potentially male factor with low morphology but that wasn't the case) when I was 26 and DH was 28. We did our first round of IVF which resulted in 26 eggs retrieved and 25 fertilized through icsi. No embryos were ready to transfer on day 5 so we transferred 2 on day 6 which were poor quality and TW it ended in a chemical endTW. Fast forward to round 2 and we had a similar outcome: 20 eggs retrieved, 19 fertilized, and only 2 made it to poor quality on day 6 TW it also ended in a chemical endTW. After 3 more cycles with a different clinic, it was determined that egg quality was an issue and at the age of 28, I was pushed to use donor eggs.

It was definitely hard for me to get over these struggles and I think the best advice I can give you is to let yourself cry and never give up and of course, always lean on your DH for support. (And get a puppy, they can really help in the worst of times and give you a bit of distraction) That's how I made it through the toughest of days and the toughest decision of my life- to accept that donor eggs were my answer to having my family.

TW the donor eggs worked and I am currently about 13 weeks pregnant with twins and one more good quality embryo in the freezer to hopefully completely my family. EndTW

If you continue to struggle and need support, reach out. We are all here for you.

babyhopeful442 · September 2017

@cxsimo08 I'm so sorry for what you've experienced.

Infertility is an extremely tough process to say the least. I haven't done IVF yet, so i'm sorry i have nothing to contribute to your situation. But, like you, my mind is now consumed with the thoughts of conception, the feeling of hopelessness with every negative HPT test is all consuming. It is such a tough process because it isn't something that you prepare for or think will happen to you. No one really thinks about it until it happens and very few people around you goes through this, so you can't really talk to them about it. That's why i'm glad you found this forum. Take some time and read through some of the ladies' stories on here. Some women go through countless rounds of treatments. I saw one mama go through 7 rounds of IVF before achieving her dreams of becoming a mother. There is always hope if you press on. Sometimes it is with a change in the protocol, sometimes alternative therapy (acupuncture and supplements), and sometimes a change in doctor. For me, i have found that i feel better the more support i have. My DH is very busy, so this forum and friends are what i lean on when the road gets tough. It is very important to find a support system to pick you up when you feel like giving up.

31 is still very young, so you still have your age. I think there's still hope for you and i have faith that with a tweak in your protocol, your eggs will do better. I've read a lot of people having success with IVF alongside acupuncture. That maybe something that's worth a try. They are generally $80-90 per session and can increase your success of IVF by sometimes 40% depending on the study. IVF is so expensive to begin with that anything to increase your chances maybe worth looking into.

Also, it maybe a good idea to do some research through books. I just got my order for "making babies-a proven 3 months program for maximum fertility" in the mail and it has a lot of good information and suggestions. Also, the reviews are great for "It starts with the egg"-this book is mostly on how to improve egg quality for IVF and is all backed up by research and not theories. Both books are less than $10 a piece. The one i ordered was only $2.95. It maybe worth a browse.

We are all here to lend a ear when you need it. Hugs

babyhopeful442 · September 2017

I second @rachel2107, get a pet. It really helps with the anxiety. They help you relax and gives you things to do. I have a cat.

rachel2107 · September 2017

I got a puppy after my second failed IVF and she was the best thing to ever happen to me. And she really helped me get through the next year and a half before getting my good news.

ReesaAnne16 · September 2017

@cxsimo08 I'm so sorry, I think anyone would be feeling devastated in your situation. That is very hard

I second the suggestion to read "It starts with the egg"; My first IVF round I had 5-6 follicles (no eggs because I ovulated early). Before our second IVF (2 months later) I took all the supplements recommended in the book for those doing IVF with diminished egg quality and our second round was WAY more successful. Previously my left ovary wasn't responding, but the second time I had 2-3 follicles on that side (same med protocol). My RE retrieved 13 eggs total the second time, which was a shock compared to what I had the first round.

We're dealing with poor sperm quality, but I remember reading somewhere that good egg quality can compensate for poor sperm and repair damaged sperm DNA. I truely think the supplements I took helped out fertilization rate and embryo quality too.

I know this doesn't help you much with this cycle, but don't despair. Quality is more important than quantity, and I often seen better % of fertilization with women who have retrieved fewer eggs on these boards. Jump into the Sept IVF thread!

dragonette505 · September 2017

@cxsimo08 hi, I don't think it's so unusual for cycles to go differently. My very first cycle we retrieved 24 eggs total and my second we got only 7! In my cycle before this last one I started out with one follicle in each ovary! I was ready to abandon that cycle because the cycle right before I retrieved 18 eggs.... by the end of that cycle we got 17 eggs! Also, my right ovary tends to yield less eggs. Again, I'm not sure why your docs are so astonished when I hear and see this sort of thing regularly.... I'm not trying to downplay your fears or how hard it is to feel hopeful... trust me, I understand. I guess I just don't want you to think you are a freak of nature since I don't think I've ever been in a cycle group where a bunch of us didn't have less follies than the time before or one ovary less responsive and stuff like that. As one of the other ladies said, it's better to have good quality than good numbers. Also, my guess is that on your first cycle, some of those follies that they didn't get eggs from could have been immature. If the follie/eggs are very small, they will not release from the follie wall. My current doc only records the sizes of follies that might be mature because even if the get every single little egg out, only mature eggs will fertilize. Sometimes fewer eggs can mean the meds are all going to mature a smaller number and therefore some ladies have better quality. Anyway, I'm sure the September cycle group would be very supportive and have ladies who can relate and are cycling right now too!

c-town18 · September 2017

With regard to dealing with the disappointment, my story is different but I have had the feelings you're describing several times throughout this. I found myself always just wanting time to pass quickly--so I could hurry up and start my next IVF cycle, so I could go in for my next U/S to see how follicles were growing, so I could take a pregnancy test after a transfer, etc.--and I was forgetting to enjoy the life I already had in the meantime.

I've found that to stay sane during this process you need to remember the things that made you happy before you started the grueling process of IF treatment, and go back to those things when you suffer a setback or are feeling particularly frustrated or down. Otherwise it's too easy to get caught up in this and forget to appreciate what is good in your life.

Examples: We just had a huge setback (cancelled donor egg cycle) so DH and I decide to take a weekend getaway to go hiking and camping. [MC ment] When I had my first MC, I went and visited my sister's family; spending time playing with my little niece and nephews, who I am close to, really helped because it's something that has always brought me joy. I've gotten back into yoga as that is something I've always loved and quit doing when I started IF treatment. Those types of things, little things that I have always loved, make me happy regardless of what other crazy IF things are happening.

Good luck to you. I have no answers, but wish you the best.

JamieH2000 · September 2017

Its so devastating when embryos arrest before day 5

I definitely think its worth a second shot as it could just be a fluke cycle. A friend of mine who was 37 and has DOR only got 5 eggs in her first IVF and none even fertilized. Her second IVF, at a different clinic with different protocol, she got 5 again, but got 3 to day 5 and 2 were PGS normal! She is now pregnant with after 2 FETs.

While I have lower AMH for my age (29), it appears my real issue is egg quality. Once we found the right protocol for me on the third IVF (also at a new clinic), I was able to get 8 mature eggs, and we had 6 good ones on day 3. From day 3 to 5, all arrested but two. They were early blasts on day 5 (not yet gradeable) and neither stuck. My RE doesn't know why I have egg quality issues. I have stage 2 endo, and slightly elevated thryoid antibodies (which if they are too high, they can attack the ovaries I guess), but nothing is bad enough that it should have impacted anything really. After 3 failed IVFs in 6 months, we made the difficult decision to go to donor eggs. I really don't think you are there yet though, and with your numbers, i think you will be able to find the golden egg! Estrogen priming is supposed to help with quality, so really hoping this IVF has been results for yoU!

cxsimo08 · September 2017

Thank you all so much for your thoughtful comments. I've read through them three times now, and just hearing from people who understand has given me a renewed sense of support. I don't feel as alone anymore.

@rachel2107 I'm so happy to hear you have good news now- twins is amazing! It sounds like your situation with limited viable eggs for transfer was very similar to mine. I think thats so hard because your not sure what you could be doing differently especially when your younger. I'm so glad to hear a donor egg was the right path for you.

Your comment on getting a dog made me laugh. I have a very sweet cuddly cat right now but I'm open to a dog so I will breach the subject with DH tonight. Maybe we can even foster one for a bit.

@babyhopeful442 Thank you so much for your kind words. They were uplifting and your absolutely right that these pages have really given me a sense of community in the past few days. I did start acupuncture last month and I love it!! It is such a great recommendation, I wish I had started sooner. I think because of the additional cost I was hesitant but just having someone who specializes in fertility, who listens to me and helps me relax has been a big help. I'm a big reader so I will download the books you recommended. My eggs have always seemed to be good quality but at my last appointment my doctor mentioned the results I had could be due to egg quality so if there is anything I can do differently to help improve this I will. Thank you again!

ReesaAnne16 Thank you for the book recommendation. I love that an egg could help compensate for poor quality sperm. Right now we don't know if the egg or the sperm is the problem so anything I can do I will. Also my acupuncturist told me tonight exactly what you did- quality is more important than quantity. I wish my doctor had said that when I was crying in the exam room lol, but it is so good to hear that from you and my acupuncturists. It makes me feel less pressure to cancel or change protocol which is where my mind was going last night. Thank you again and congrats on your BFP!

@dragonette505 Thank you- I think you're absolutely right. All cycles are different- it's good to understand your situation as well that reflects that. I'm also glad to hear you had more from your first to second monitoring so fingers crossed for tomorrow's appointment. Just to clarify, my doctor wasn't surprised with the lower follicles this cycle. The surprise was from the previous cycle when I had no blastocysts and very specific results with the ICSI vs. non- ICSI eggs. I don't think she's had a situation in a very long time with no blasts (@ age 30) and certainly not one where it was so distinct in the groups of ICSI vs. non. Thank you again for your words and support. I will join that September cycle post!

@ChiTown16 I think thats the hardest part. Feeling hopelessness, then allowing yourself to hope secretly, only for disappointment. I'm so sorry to hear that you had a recent setback with your donor cycle. That has got to be so painful. It's funny that you mention spending time with your niece and nephew because, when I get to see my nieces and nephews, I feel the exact same. Something about playing with kids that are so carefree helps you cheer up and take your mind off things. You don't focus so much on the bad. A big part of my life before all of this was sports/running. Thats been hard for me as well because you can't really do strenuous activity so I'm missing that piece that used to keep me whole. I think I need to find an activity that isn't too rigorous but that as you said made me happy before all of this started!

@JamieH2000 I'm so sorry you have had such difficult results, I can't even imagine going through that many cycles in such a short amount of time. It must have been all encompassing. How did you know you had endo? Did you do a laparoscopy My doctor can't see anything but based on my symptoms it's certainly a possibility but I haven't made that decision yet. I think your right that changing protocol could make a difference and I guess either way if it is successful or not, I'll get more information. Best of luck to you and thank you for your support and thoughtful words.

Thank you ladies again- you have seriously lifted me up on one of my darkest nights. XO

cxsimo08 · September 2017

Quick Update: I did decide to go froward with this cycle ~13 follies but will be doing a D3 transfer, if anything makes it to D5 I will freeze. I also triggered last night w/ 5000 HCG (I did 1500 last time w/ 40 lupron). This cycle my estrogen levels have slowly rose vs. last time it was sporadic, so my doctor is happier with that outcome. Fingers crossed this new protocol worked!!

cseley321 · September 2017

Just now saw this thread. I'm glad things are going well! My issue is unexplained infertility and unexplained early loss. My doctor assumes we are working with abnormal eggs and my husband has low sperm count (right on the edge of low). TW - we got our first round of IVF in 2014 and out of 9 eggs, only 5 made it to 5 day blasts. From that we did a fresh transfer and ended up with a healthy baby to take home. It only takes one, and it's quality over quantity.

cxsimo08 · September 2017

@Crystal321 Thats awesome and I'm glad to hear that with 9 eggs you had the success of 5 D5 blasts and your fresh transfer worked! I just feel like I cannot have another situation where I end up with no blasts on D5 (it was devastating) so hopefully this new protocol and D3 will help! Question for you, out of your 9 eggs, do you remember how many follicles you had going in to your retrieval? Was it 9 for 9 or did you start out with more. I think for me that was a big surprise, starting with ~25 follicles and ending up with 13 eggs.

cseley321 · September 2017

It was about 15 if i remember correctly

No Blastocysts IVF - D5 Transfer (New to Board)

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