Immunizations and Vaccines

Colleen0516 · June 2017

Civally and respectfully, I want people's opinions on immunizations and vaccinations. I know this can be a touchy subject for some, so lets keep in mind that every is entitled to their own opinion . I think hearing multiple viewpoints and opinions help others form an opinion of their own.

We met with our pediatrician today and one topic was flu shot, DTaP immunization and all other big immunizations. I've never had to actually think about what I would do for my children until now.
My husband said he is okay with all big immunizations but not with the flu shot and the DTaP shot. I found it interesting that he picked two of the many that he isn't comfortable with. I honestly don't know how I feel just yet.

i know there are a lot of studies that link certain things to autism and other harmful things. But I also know there a ton of studies that state there is no link.
SO, I wanna hear everyone's thoughts so I can gather my own!

JWatt5 · June 2017

So interesting he's got a question mark for those two as that seems to be the big two for us up here. This is the schedule we'll follow like most in Ontario - some daycares/school won't take you kids if you don't follow this schedule. https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/immunization/static/immunization_tool.html

I have had all these vaccines and get the flu shot annually myself. I feel that anything I can do to prevent illness is best.
Is the DTaP spread out like ours for you gals?? Honestly had never heard of until seeing it on the boards - they don't administer it to pregnant women, just start the vaccine at 2 months old.

janejane-2 · June 2017

It is my understanding that the original study that linked vaccines to autism has since been debunked. Unfortunately, the study's findings gathered so much attention and controversy that the fact that it doesn't hold has sort of been lost through all the noise.

I've heard that some doctors will spread out vaccines if it makes parents feel more comfortable. My pediatrician does the 2-4-6 schedule though my babies left the NICU with their Hep B shot I believe.

tvh1982 · June 2017

I'm convinced that autism and vaccines are not connected to each other.
For me it was without any questions to say yes to vaccines.
We however do not have the flu shot here in the Netherlands.

Any reason why he doesn't want to do the DTaP? Or is it the autism he is afraid of?

I know people use the excuse that 'the diseases our 'out' no one gets them anymore. But that's because they have gotten vaccines.
Measles for example are back in Europe. My LO is too young to get her vaccine for measles. I find it unfair that I need to worry about the health of my LO because others refuse to follow the program.
But I do understand one worrying about your LO, I might not agree with the reason, but we all want the best.

ARB425 · June 2017

I'm not necessarily convinced that vaccines cause autism but i do believe that the levels of aluminum in the vaccines(yes not every vaccine contains this but many do) can cause many issues for children as their little bodies cannot detoxify as an adult would. In the US if you follow the typical CDC vaccination schedule at 2 months you are getting 4- 6 total vaccinations(depending on which vaccinations your ped uses) In general I feel that 4-6 is way too many times to poke a baby. At most i only feel comfortable with 2 and we are really leaning towards giving 1 vaccine at a time/spreading them out.

The book I'm reading The vaccine friendly plan is a really good resource for both sides of the coin. It's written by a pediatrician. It actually goes over way more than just vaccinations like when to start solids, is it colic, sleep regression, breastfeeding etc. we bought it on Amazon after my SIL recommended it.

The bottom line is vaccines are a personal choice and many people have very strong feelings about it. We've eradicated diseases because over years we followed a scheduled vaccinations program. Are some absolutely necessary? Yes! Do I feel that some are over kill? Sure...hepatitis B. Our little gal won't be getting that as an infant because we have no risk factors and neither will she. Is it something to consider as she gets older? Most definitely.

@jwatt5 Dtap in the US is given at 2,4,6,18 months and again at age 4-6.

Polythene Pam · June 2017

We did all vaccines on schedule, I knew some (hepatitis b) seemed early but I also just don't have the medical knowledge myself to say no to these. I never get the flu shot myself (my mom was a nurse and never took us for that particular one) but did take my daughter in for hers. As she gets bigger I may stop but we had some NASTY bugs go around this year and I was happy we did what we could to avoid getting it. My moms thought on the flu was getting it won't do permanent damage so let the body fight it. When my daughter is a bit bigger I can see that.

I'm in a local moms group and some refuse any vaccines, feel their kids can fight off things better on their own. To each their own but then I'll be even more cautious with my newborn until he is vaccinated. It's tricky.

hibiscus118 · June 2017

@ARB425 I'm feeling the same way with spreading them out a little. I am totally pro-vaccination but feel as though more than 1-2 at a time is a little overkill. Just waiting a week or two between them seems reasonable to me, but I need to do more research into it.

kdanjou · June 2017

For me, I'd rather get them done all at once as per suggested by my doctor, rather than spread them out. It's one bad day rather than many. Please get your children vaccinated. It's so scary to me to see things like measles come back because so many people didn't get their kids vaccinated. Little tiny babies and some with compromised immune systems can't get vaccinated and need that "herd" immunity. TDaP is such an important vaccine (especially the Pertussis part) for children to get. Pertussis can be deadly to little ones and is definitely still around.

This map of the United States shows whether reported pertussis rates increased or decreased between 2013 and 2014 in each state These states had an increase in reporting Alabama California Colorado Connecticut Delaware Georgia Idaho Kansas Maine Michigan Mississippi Nebraska New York North Carolina Ohio Oklahoma Pennsylvania South Dakota Tennessee Virginia and Wisconsin The remaining states had a decrease in reporting

2legbaby · June 2017

All these ladies have brought up really great points about the vaccines. As far as the autism link, @JaneJane is correct there was one large study that was totally debunked ( and later revoked from the journal that it was published in) but unfortunately now it is ingrained, especially in the anti-vaxxers minds.
I am a veterinarian and while I don't do general practice I feel I have an inside scoop on vaccines. I do feel that vets in general probably way over vaccinate animals. Chances are they do not need a rabies every one to three years or distemper every year either. That being said vaccines are so important for them for similar reasons especially herd Health but also for common diseases like parvo to protect them as it can be so very deadly.
I have elected to follow the vaccine schedule as directed for my LO. That is not to say I didn't worry in my mind about all the potential reactions as they can certainly have risks minor to Major anytime. The flu is a very common thing and unfortunately needs yearly vaccines because it mutates every year. I have never really gotten the vaccine because I was a low-risk group and I did not hang around with high-risk groups for example the kids or elderly. Now that we have our little girl I will make sure both my husband and I as well as she get vaccinated every year because a simple bout of the flu can be deadly to a small child. Similarly for the DTaP vaccine as someone mentioned above, pertussis has definitely made a recurrence and again can be so dangerous to a little one. There are definitely ways to extend out the schedule to avoid getting all the vaccines at once which I think is a good alternative for those who can take it. For those of us with our kids entering daycare most require them to have their core vaccines done or they are not allowed and an extended schedule does not allow for this so keep that in mind when making your decision.
Good for you for asking and questioning protocols!

JWatt5 · June 2017

@ARB425 - so just like us (and then we do it again at age 4 to 6 and age 14 to 16). I had been hearing a lot about getting the TDaP during pregnancy but we don't do that here.

Our LO will get the DTaP-IPV-Hib vaccine on that same schedule - one combine vaccine (Diphtheria, tetanus, pertussis, polio, haemophilus influenzae type b) along with the few others as they come up. I've always been curious what other countries do (particularly the US) - we have a pretty long/strict vaccination schedule but we are also under Govt Funded Health Care in Canada and prevention is not only good for people but for the system.

Most of the vaccines here are required by law (unless exempt for medical reasons)for all children attending school in Ontario. Most Daycare Centre had adpoted this practice. Even the chicken pox vaccine at 15 months is that way.

srh18 · June 2017

I didn't know until I started this IF journey that immunity can diminish overtime if a person's immune system is strong enough. I discovered I was no longer immune to measles as an adult. This was a terrifying bit of info for me, as I learned it during the measles outbreak where I lived and where people died. This outbreak happened--and I was at risk--because people aren't vaccinating their kids due to misinformation and misplaced fear.

Bottom line--vaccines protect us all. Science saves lives people!!

PoeMasque · June 2017

As a public health nurse my opinion on vaccines is directed by scientific evidence. There are zero credible studies linking vaccines to autism, zero. A book written by a pediatrician, who is not a trained researcher and who did not actually conduct credible studies is not a good resource if you're looking for facts. We have lots of credible studies that show vaccines are completely safe. I am also an ER nurse and have seen what not vaccinating can do and it's extremely sad. I live in an area with constant pertussis outbreaks, a recent mumps outbreak, and occasional measles. These are happening because we have some of the lowest vaccination rates in the country in my county.

Pertussis is a national threat, so not getting DTap is putting your baby at risk of death. That's not a scare tactic, babies under the age of 1 that get pertussis have a very bleak outcome, I've seen this first hand, more than once. It's usually an older relative that gives it to baby.....because they also are not usually vaccinated.

As for hepatitis B, we give that to tiny babies because getting hep B prior to 1 year is pretty much a guaranteed liver transplant.

I have personally vaccinated many babies and have worked with dozens of families, in home, who have children who are fully vaccinated on the recommended schedule. The most common side effects of vaccination are fussiness and diarrhea, which last about 24 hours. Low grade fever (rectal temp under 101.3) is a very good sign (means the body is mounting a response and thus kiddo is building antibodies) and should not be treated unless kiddo is inconsolable or driving parent crazy. This also goes for grown ups, those who say they "got the flu" from the flu shot are likely just getting a good immune response (a low fever and body aches are NOT the flu....trust me!)

No child under age 1 gets a live virus vaccine. Although I will personally be terrified of my kiddo getting measles or mumps before then, since that is an actual possibility here.

I'm happy to answer any questions about vaccine preventable diseases, but I really urge anyone wondering about them to look at possible complications from each.....then decide if 24 hours of fussiness is worth risking those complications. I also urge people to think about the fact that your unvaccinated child could be the cause of death for another human who, for medical reasons, cannot get vaccines - or the reason for fetal demise in the case of rubella and pregnant women.

sorry that was long and opinionated, I'm pretty passionate about our responsibility to our communities since I see kiddos who can't get vaccines for medical reasons on a regular basis.

PoeMasque · June 2017

@Polythene Pam there have been strains of the flu that actually target healthy, young adults (H1N1 is one of them and it's still around). I had the flu once and it took me two months to recover, this was when I was in my mid 20s. I have a friend who got H1N1 when she was 30 and was hospitalized for three days. We are lucky to have supportive care that makes recovery from the flu easier, but it does still kill 12,000 to 56,000 people in the US each year.

The CDC no longer states that healthy adults skip the vaccine, they recommend everyone over 6 months get it.

ARB425 · June 2017

@poemasque Just to clear up any confusion the book I referred to does link NIH studies/actual research data to the vaccines. It is NOT an anti vaccine book by any means.

PoeMasque · June 2017

@ARB425 i know the book well, the research cited in the book is not only "in process", but it is on patients in only one clinic, the "conclusion" drawn is that autism rates for children vaccinated on the recommended schedule have significantly higher rates than ones vaccinated on Dr Paul's recommended schedule. This is not peer reviewed research, it's not even completed research. This book has made Dr Paul very rich and I am always leery of "research" that skips steps to get to a quicker profit.

I worked in biochemistry research for 7 years before becoming a nurse, so again, I'm very opinionated in this arena (there's a pyramid of evidence diagram for determining the quality of a research study that I adhere pretty strictly to).

In the end, everyone gets to do their own research and make their own choices based on their values on this topic, and it's a doozy of a topic!!

Colleen0516 · June 2017

So many responses!! And for the most part, we are all on the same page! I love that

ive always been for vaccines and immunizations. Never thought twice about it until I met with the pediatrician with my husband. He doesn't know as much about them all and kinda goes off what he hears. His freind refused the flu and the DTaP and sent him an article on why, so he got all nervous. i explained to him that for every article there is proving there IS a link, I can find one that proves that there ISNT. I'm a special ed teacher. I deal with parents who feel this way all the time, so it isn't anything new to me- I was just taken back that my husband felt that way.
I told him I can understand if he doesn't like the flu shot because they don't always know if they are protecting from the right strain of the virus. BUT I'm kind of non negotiable on the other vaccines. He is fine with all of them expect that DTaP still, but will do it because I want it done.

Making choices for your children is the hardest part about being a parent! It's scary. You always want whts best for them and constantly worry. Can't believe that instinct is kicking in prior to them even being here, so I can't imagine how it will feel when they arrive!!

KLake42 · June 2017

I intend to get all vaccines recommended by the pediatrician, on schedule. And I will find a pediatrician who requires vaccines, since I don't want to take an unvaccinated infant to a waiting room packed with older unvaccinated sick children.

I also get the flu shot for myself every year. I had the flu once (when I didn't get the shot). I was beyond miserable, and had a secondary ear infection that left me with a ruptured ear drum. Nope. I'll do what I can to avoid having that again. I know it's not perfect protection, but I'll take what I can get.

I wish I could have gotten the cervical cancer vaccine. I was just a little too old, but should have insisted on it. I ended up with the virus, and had a scare, but the (painful) colposcopy was negative. I intend to get that for my kids, boys or girls, when they're old enough, because it's been found to offer protection for boys against a few cancers, and if they don't carry the virus, they won't infect someone they care about.

I'm very much in favor of vaccines.

nellin-2 · June 2017

@KLake42 I got the cervical cancer (hpv) vaccine when it was released but had apparently already contracted the virus (at that stage for some reason they didn't check before having you the shot).

I had level 3 of 3 cell changes (NOT cancer but a high level of abnormal cells that could have turned into cancer if left untreated.
That was the start of my infertility journey. The worst doctor I've ever had actually said these words to me "the good news is this won't impact your ability to get pregnant, but the bad news is you are more likely to miscarry or make it to full term".
Turned out I had other reasons that stopped me conceiving but a vaccine at the right time could have avoided that surgery and 6 month wait.

John Oliver has a video on vaccines. It is not civil or respectful (It's pretty offensive if toy disagree with him) but it explains things well in an entertaining way
https://www.facebook.com/LastWeekTonight/

ale9687 · June 2017

My pediatrician follows the schedule set my the American pediatric association but they never give more than 2 shots at a time. Perhaps they mix vaccines together, I forgot what they said about it but it'll never be more than two shots. We did delay hep b two months just bc he was so tiny I wanted to delay his first shot till he had some meat on his bones.

sasha29-2 · July 2017

I have fairly strong feelings about this, as a lot of people do, but for me, vaccinating is absolutely a non-negotiable. Our kid will get his vaccines, on time, as recommended by his pediatrician. And I will find a pediatrician that requires their patients to be vaccinated unless there's a legitimate, diagnosed medical reason they can't safely do it. And I know it's a little hypocritical because I'm pretty hit or miss when it comes to flu shots (some years I remember, some I don't). And quite honestly, I don't really see a rhyme or reason to when I get the flu versus when I don't. Luckily I've never had an especially bad case, but whether I've gotten the flu really doesn't seem to correlate at all to when I've gotten the shot, and doctors are pretty up front about yeah it's good to get it, but it's nowhere near a perfect thing. But I'm hoping I'll get better with it once kiddo comes. I'm sure I'll get it this year because I'll still be with working with my OB when it comes out, and their policy is to vaccinate all their patients.

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