TW: Advice Needed

JNR6510 · May 2017

I am in a tough spot and am in need of advice. There is a close relative who is in a toxic relationship that DH and I are debating removing from our lives. Said person (Mrs. X) was abused growing up, married an abusive psychopath who later divorced her after attempting to murder her, and is now in an on again off again relationship with another abusive man.

DH and I absolutely refuse to allow this man to ever be allowed anywhere near our kids. He is a druggie and is physically violent. We stopped visiting / severely limited contact with Mrs. X after an incident in which the abusive SO pushed her down the stairs resulting in fractured vertebrae. I literally had to hold the SO at bay at gunpoint because he was threatening to further harm both her and myself.

Mrs. X refuses to contact the police when he is violent with her because she believes that this is normal behavior and will just say "Well he is bipolar so the doctor says he just doesn't know how to love like a normal person." She will make all sorts of excuses for his actions or blame herself.

While I care deeply about Mrs. X, the immense stress and anxiety caused by even being in contact with her is killing me. I will never tell her where we live or work because the psycho SO has previously stalked DH and I and tried to follow us home. DH and I had a serious discussion with her 8 months back and made it clear that the SO was not welcome anywhere near us and that we would help her to get away from the abuse and would pay for the moving costs etc if she wanted help.

Mrs. X deludes herself into believing nothing is wrong with SO and refuses all offers of help. Then she will get hurt and cry / make me feel guilty when we aren't involved with her because I am not willing to risk the physical dangers of running into the crazy SO.

Basically DH and I are at the point of having to make the hard choice of one of the two following options:

1) Completely cut ties with Mrs. X and be done with her.

2) Try one last time to allow her to be involved in our child's life under extremely strict supervision and regulation. Essentially a these are the rules; break it and you are cutoff from our lives forever sort of deal.

Idk what to do. I would love for her to be involved in our kid's life, but the toxic bull that comes along with her refusal to get help or leave her abusive SO is unbearable. I don't want my kid exposed to that or put in a dangerous situation. At the same time, I feel like a terrible human being for cutting her off when an abusive hell hole is practically all she has ever known. While I care about her, I have to protect my family and my child first.

What would you you do in my position?

Ae_Lovely321 · May 2017

You are in a tough spot. If it were me, I'd cut the ties completely. Having her around means having him in your life to some degree, if she is not willing to leave. One big reason for me would be that there is nothing that's really going to stop this guy from coming over and causing drama once the child is born if you're hanging out with her. The possibility is always there. You shouldn't have to worry about her and her relationship as you'll have enough on your plate caring for your child. The decision is ultimately up to you.

Souptin · May 2017

Sorry friend these situations are hard especially when the answer (for her to leave and seek help) is so clear. This would be a hard cut off for me. It's one thing to make the decision for yourself to be involved with her and the risks that it entails but it's a completely different situation when you mix in a defenceless child. I would tell her that this is your stop in the friendship. If or when she concludes that she needs to leave this abusive man you will be there to offer support (from a distance ) but until that time you're not comfortable with having any involvement and will no longer be in contact.

Swazzle · May 2017

I would definitely cut all ties. You've been supportive for long enough and when it comes to putting yourself and your family in danger, there's just no question there, you need to do what's best for you guys. It's really sad that she keeps putting herself in these situations and making decisions that are dangerous for her and people around her. But that's not your fault and it sounds like you've done everything in your power to help her.

sugarrush · May 2017

Time to cut ties. And tell her the truth as to why you are cutting ties... and repeat that if and when she is ready to leave him for good, you will be there to help. But the stress of her involving you in her situation is not only not good for you and your baby, but dangerous if this guy is as psycho as you say he is. You can't take on her problems because she fails to see the man and the situation for what it is. It doesn't mean you don't love and care about her any less, however she is a grown adult who will have to make decisions at some point.... and hopefully the decision won't ultimately cost her her life.

jutondreau · May 2017

Sounds like the ladies above have given some good advice and I agree with them. It's a tough spot, but life is full of not so fun decisions and this is one of those. Hang in there mama!

jena333-2 · May 2017

This is especially hard because she's a close relative. But your health and safety and that of your child must come first. And you can and have told her this kind of behavior isn't acceptable from your SO, but until she's ready to see and accept that, there's unfortunately nothing you can do to make it so, yo make her see it.

As others have said, I would be honest, "Mrs X, I really care about you, but I feel unsafe for myself and our child, and that has to be my priority. I cannot have your abusive SO anywhere near our lives, and that means until you are ready to leave, I can't have you in our lives either."

wyomama0427 · May 2017

And Mrs. X is completely unwilling to seek help? From a counselor or a therapist? This woman needs help or as sugarrush said, it could cost her her life. Unfortunately I'd have to agree to cut ties if she won't see someone. Which really sucks. But you can't have your family around that.

ColoradoHiker · May 2017

Cut ties. Sometimes, the worst part of being an adult is letting go of people you can't help, because they don't want to help themselves. She has made her choice, and you need to make yours. You will never, ever forgive yourself if you continue in a relationship with Mrs. X, and something happens to your DH or LO. Given the examples you've told us, her SO would not hesitate to use physical force again. Your immediate family is your top priority, as is their safety.

JNR6510 · May 2017

@wyomama0427 She really won't accept help or treatment of any sort. She tried visiting a pastor for "counseling" once and he basically just made things worse by saying the SO's violence and behavior were excusable because SO is bipolar so he can't control it. She thinks nothing is wrong or that she can fix / manage it if there is something wrong.

I guess I know what I have to do. It just sucks. I feel guilty like I am punishing her for someone else's shitty behavior.

Thank you you for your advice and support ladies! I really do appreciate you guys!

mrsmarygs · May 2017

With that amount of danger surrounding Mrs. X, I would say it's time to cut ties. But let her know that your offer of helping her out of the abusive relationship still stands, and if she were to leave him, she would be free to begin a relationship with you, your husband, and your child.

sarahufl · May 2017

Cut ties completely. Sadly, when people are in abusive relationships like this, they often don't see what you see. And who knows, maybe she will some day (I hope she does for her sake). But I wouldn't expose myself or my child to that in any form- it just isn't worth it.

mercury94 · May 2017

I have some personal experience here. My ex was a crazy person. He was emotionally and physically abusive (although he'll say he wasn't because he never punched me or beat me). He was the sort of person who carried a gun (legally, I might add) and made sure that everyone knew it. When you're in that relationship, you don't see it. It's not like anyone says, "Oh, he's horribly abusive, but that's okay." I always thought it was my fault. If I did what he wanted, he wouldn't treat me that way. I was also convinced (probably because he'd been telling me since I was 14) that I was unattractive and would never find anyone else who wanted me. Mostly, I refer to him as a sociopath.

I had multiple friends cut off contact while I was with him. At the time, I was hurt that my friends cut off contact. I didn't see the issue, so I thought they were just being petty and not talking to me because they didn't like him. When I finally got out of the relationship, I understood. When I finally filed for divorce and was working on getting his stuff out of the house, he pointed a loaded shotgun at me and told me he would kill me if I got in his way. He also broke into the house multiple times after he moved out. He was a pretty scary guy. And that was really the first time I was able to see it.

I have since reconnected with a lot of the friends I lost and I think that they all did the right thing cutting off contact. I know now that I would want to do the same thing.

Sorry for the novel. The point is that if I was close to someone in this sort of toxic relationship, I would try to help them get out of it, but I would cut off contact if they didn't want to leave. And I would make it clear that she could contact me if she got out of that situation and I would help in any way I could.

ETA: when I did finally get out of the relationship, he didn't just threaten me. He also threatened those friends that hadn't cut off contact. That's part of why I would want to stay far away from someone in this sort of situation.

Swazzle · May 2017

@bridge-and-wall I am so sorry that you went through that and so glad that you got out of it. So many hugs

JNR6510 · May 2017

@bridge-and-wall I'm sorry you went through this. I'm glad you got free of him.

lilpoots · May 2017

This situation is much more complicated than just bipolar disorder, but I wanted to point out that bipolar disorder doesn't excuse violent behavior. There are plenty of individuals who are bipolar who are not violent and there is medication/therapy to treat this disorder. He needs a better therapist, because his is an enabler. You can't fix her and she can't fix her SO. All of the above advice has been perfect. I'm so sorry, I know this must be painful and so hard to deal with. If you ever feel threatened by this man, don't hesitate to file a restraining order.

stephy_p · May 2017

lilpoots said:

This situation is much more complicated than just bipolar disorder, but I wanted to point out that bipolar disorder doesn't excuse violent behavior. There are plenty of individuals who are bipolar who are not violent and there is medication/therapy to treat this disorder. He needs a better therapist, because his is an enabler. You can't fix her and she can't fix her SO. All of the above advice has been perfect. I'm so sorry, I know this must be painful and so hard to deal with. If you ever feel threatened by this man, don't hesitate to file a restraining order.

This. I was about to post something identical. I have a close family member that has bipolar disorder and is not violent. I think Mr.X probably has other issues going on. Even if his mental condition causes him to be violent, it's still not an excuse for his behavior. Seeking counseling and medication is how a person can "help it". Just accepting the dangerous behavior isn't an option.

You probably know in your heart that if you have tried repeatedly to help get Mrs. X out of the situation, that you have done all you can and that it is time to look out for you and your growing family. Also, cutting her out of your life could be something that helps her see reality.

SummerGirl21 · May 2017

Cut ties. You can only help someone if they are willing to accept it. She may be ready one day (let's hope it is soon), but your family, and especially your children, come first. I would never forgive myself if I still allowed contact with a person with that history that ended up endangering or hurting my child. SFIL's brother abused DH's sister years ago, and he still is not welcome near any of our family, even though SFIL and MIL refuse to believe it's true. We know it hurts them but the well-being of our families comes first.

mrs_tacos · May 2017

@JNR6510 I have no advice to add, I think the ladies above covered it quite nicely, I just wanted to say that I'm sorry you're having to make a choice like this regarding someone you love. I've had to make a similar choice, and it is heart wrenching, but ultimately the right things to do for someone in this situation are rarely easy. Big hugs to you.

@bridge-and-wall Just a lot of hugs. I'm so glad you were able to get out safely, and that you have an amazing DH now!

msashley2010-2 · May 2017

Having come from an extremely abusive marriage several years ago, I can say with near certainty that the situation with her SO will likely never get better. It will likely get worse and worse until one day he permanently injures her beyond recovery if she doesn't choose to leave this terrible situation. No matter how much she loves or cares for him, her love cannot cure his mental illness and personal issues within himself. It is better for her to walk away from that situation and allow him to either choose to get help for his problems or perpetuate his own miserable existence. It is hard, but is possible.

I 100% support you in not wanting to have your child around such toxicity. (And potential danger to yourself and your child as well.) If she continues to stay in a situation that has proven to be a dangerous situation for her and a dangerous situation for you, I agree to cut all ties.

But I wonder: Is there a possibility that prior to cutting all ties, if some type of intervention may be held for her by the family and friends she has who truly care for her to help encourage her to lead her away from this destructive relationship? Are there others that care for her like you do that would be willing to help her get the psychological help she needs to learn that it is perfectly acceptable and OK to leave someone you love because they are hurting you? Do you think there is a possibility that she is afraid that if she leaves him he will find her and punish her physically for doing so? If this is a possibility, are there programs in the area that offer shelter for battered women and children that would be willing to provide a safe haven for her?

Sorry for the long winded response. It is not your responsibility to fix her issues and if she is persistently unwilling to part with him I understand cutting all ties. I just know that for me personally, had I not had a loving and supportive family that encouraged me to leave my ex, I may not be here today to share the story...

I truly hope that everything works out for everyone involved!!

mercury94 · May 2017

@msashley2010-2 I'm so sorry that you went through that. I think you make a lot of good points. I know a lot of people aren't aware of all the options out there. I didn't know until I started working for the government that our local police department will, at no charge, help you get a protective order if you are with someone who abuses you. There might be a lot of services out there that can help her if she's willing to get the help.

wyomama0427 · May 2017

bridge-and-wall said:

@msashley2010-2 I'm so sorry that you went through that. I think you make a lot of good points. I know a lot of people aren't aware of all the options out there. I didn't know until I started working for the government that our local police department will, at no charge, help you get a protective order if you are with someone who abuses you. There might be a lot of services out there that can help her if she's willing to get the help.

I've been thinking about this post a lot today, and if someone that I loved and cared deeply about was in this situation, I dont know if I could cut ties knowing that her SO was that abusive and it would probably keep getting worse. I'd probably try the intervention like mentioned above, try to get family members together to talk to her and try to convince her to seek help. Investigate all the options available to her and try to present them to her and help her make a decision in any way I could.

JNR6510 · May 2017

@msashley2010-2 I wish an intervention were possible. Unfortunately her closest family is over 2000 miles away. Just another abusive measure taken by her SO. He moved her far away from all family / support system. DH and I have even offered to come, pack up all of her belongings, drive the 2000+ miles, and pay for her move back to where her family all lives (all while the abusive SO is away at work so he won't know she is leaving / gone). She just always makes excuses or says she will do it in XYZ weeks or months but never follows through.

Her church friends are useless. They are of the special mindset that abuse is not a valid reason to leave a SO. They make me so furious with their bs about how Jesus turned the other cheek so if your SO or anyone is abusive or violent to you, your Christian duty is to take it and turn the other cheek or how women were created to serve men. Blech!

My my only option left now is really to cut ties. I wish we didn't have to, but I honestly can't afford the stress it causes to my health and marriage, much less the danger it poses to my child.

msashley2010-2 · May 2017

@JNR6510 That is really sad. My ex husband didn't start physically abusing me until we were stationed overseas thousands of miles away from my family. Thankfully the military was extremely quick about getting me back to the states once I reached out to them for help.

It seems from what you are saying that you have done your part and have tried your best multiple times to help her leave this situation. And he has already proven himself to be a threat to you and your family by his past behavior toward you both. The last thing you want to do is potentially put your baby in danger as well.

mercury94 · May 2017

@JNR6510 That's so sad. I'm sorry that she seems to not be open to the help. I hope that she will find her way out before she suffers permanent damage. Isolation is unfortunately a pretty common factor with abuse. Abusive partners tend to prefer that their victims not have friends or close family that will help them.

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