I couldn't come up with a witty or creative title for this thread...ideas are welcome haha.
This is a thread where you are free to come and express your anger, frustration, venting, questioning, praise, prayers and anything else in a safe space. We are all in different places in our TTC journey and in our faith as well. This is where you can come and find others who may be feeling similar to how you are in your walk of faith, and hopefully find some inspiration and peace.
You do not have to be a Christian or believer to post/comment in this thread. All are welcome (obviously, it's a public forum. But I felt the need to state this anyway).
I'm tagging those who expressed interest in participating in this thread, but please do NOT feel pressured to comment if you are tagged. And, if I didn't tag you and you'd like to join, please jump right in. I'm thinking we'll see how much activity this thread has and then decide whether to do monthly or weekly check-ins. Thoughts are welcome. @KristoKekerooni@beachbunnyxo123@vintageandrea90@madspunk@hartmich@magnolia131
***
Do you have a verse that speaks to you or encourages you that you'd like to share?
How are you feeling in general (can be regarding your faith, or not)?
Do you have any praise or encouragement to share with others?
Any prayer requests?
GTKY: What was your upbringing like? - were you raised in the church?
@travelingcouple This thread looks great!!! thanks for putting it together! Will be back a little later, looking forward to commenting and seeing what others share!
Do you have a verse that speaks to you or encourages you that you'd like to share? Not a verse, but The Serenity Prayer has always been very comforting to me. Moreso once I started going to therapy and deciding to live a life of acceptance.
How are you feeling in general (can be regarding your faith, or not)? I've been doing better. Seeing my therapist on Tuesday really helped me. I worry about telling people we're TTC because I don't want anyone to bring God into it. I don't believe He plays an active role in our lives. Things don't happen "for a reason." Every road block is not "part of His plan." God doesn't have the time to add struggles to my life. He didn't plan every moment of my journey.The more I believe that, the less responsibility I have for my actions.God grants me the tools, but I have to put in the effort to make it happen.Believing any less gives me permission to do nothing and wait for God to figure it out for me.
Do you have any praise or encouragement to share with others?
Any prayer requests?
GTKY: What was your upbringing like? - were you raised in the church? I was baptized and received my first communion in the Catholic church. After the church scandals of the late 90s and early 2000s, my mom wanted out of the church. We converted to Lutheranism where I was confirmed and was very active until my high school graduation. My extended family ranges from heavy-duty Christian to what I call "Catholic in principle, not in practice" where they live their life by Catholic principles, but don't really go to church every week.
@LoveInDC I'm glad therapy is helping you, I had my first session on Tuesday. I do love the Serenity prayer. With IF, so much is out of our control so it helps to remember that are some things that we just cannot change. And the things that can do often take courage.
Looking back now that I've typed this all up...read ahead for a novel. Haha. Can you tell I've had a lot on my mind lately??
Do you have a verse that speaks to you or encourages you that you'd like to share? But those who trust in the Lord for help will find their strength renewed. They will rise on wings like eagles; they will run and not get weary; they will walk and not grow weak. Isaiah 40:31
I came across this verse yesterday and it really gave me peace.
How are you feeling in general (can be regarding your faith, or not)? I posted about this in the IF thread because that's pretty much the only place I post these days... I have felt such a shift in myself over the past few days. Throughout the winter, probably since November (since that marked 1 full year of TTC), I have felt really low, depressed and lost. I've asked God to give me a sign to show me what the right path is...am I not getting pregnant because we are meant to adopt? Am I supposed to focus on growing my home business right now? Are we just supposed to have 1 child despite my deepest desires for a large family? I have been struggling with knowing whether or not the path we're on is the right one. I've had a hard time fully trusting in God through this IF journey because there are so many pieces that are out of my control that I just want to hold on to it to maintain some form of control. I said that recently to a friend (who loves me dearly and was totally coming a place of complete love) who said and how's that working out for you? And that really hit me because, yeah, trying to control it myself is not working out for me. It's digging me into this deep pit of depression and anger and I've lost sight of the person I used to be before IF. On Tuesday I heard a woman share her story on IF and how God was with her through it, even when she felt like she was losing every ounce of herself in the midst of it. SO much of what she shared, I identified with. I really felt like God was speaking to me through her to tell me: Trust Me. God knows that is the hardest thing for me - to fully and utterly trust him with this path to another child. I spoke with the woman who shared her story afterward and I told her that (that it's hard for me to trust) and she said, yeah, of course, because it makes you vulnerable to pain. This life ain't easy and IF is by far the most gut wrenching emotional exhaustion I've experienced in my life. But I have felt such a different peace in the last few days and keep trying to remember to give this to God because it truly is ultimately in his hands.
Do you have any praise or encouragement to share with others? I think that is covered in my previous essay long answer
Any prayer requests? Yes. So DH and I have decided (as of now at least) that if this cycle isn't it for us, we'll be taking a "break" until June. I will be traveling 4 days during my now-predicted FW in April and when I mentioned it to the doctor today, she said they could put me on BC...I just stopped her right there because I definitely do not want to do that. May we'll be in Hawaii for 9 days which is way too long to work in a medicated cycle that month. So that brings us to June. Thinking about it right now actually gives me peace. We would never prevent, but we are planning to stop tracking and just have sex when we want to during April & May. All that to say that prayers for peace of my mind would be awesome. Right now I feel ok about it, but I don't know how I'll feel if and when my period does show up this month. With the travel plans, we don't have much of a choice anyway, but please pray that I can continue to feel peaceful about this decision. It does mean I'd be going to my sister's baby shower in June not pregnant, and I know that will be really hard for me.
GTKY: What was your upbringing like? - were you raised in the church? I was raised Christian in a Presbyterian church. It was not the best experience of church for me and there were a lot of things that went on that shouldn't have. It is literally only a miracle that I still believe in God and have my own relationship with him. My parents divorced when I was 11 and my Mom went to one extreme - Presbyterian "on crack" as I like to call it. Way too long to go into detail here. And my Dad went to Greek Orthodox. I just really needed to find my own path and just stick to the Bible and now my family attends a non-denominational church. I get a lot out of the sermons as they are very relevant to daily life and I love the people there.
@LoveInDC - Not many people know that there are categories of believers. There are five main ones (young Earth Creationism, Old Earth Creationism, Evolutionary Creationists, Deistic Evolutionists, and Atheists/Atheistic Evolutionists. Almost everyone falls into one of these categories, but most don't know there is a word (words) for the specific way they believe. I just thought it might interest you to know that the way you describe your beliefs, you would fall into either evolutionary creationism or deistic evolutionism. I attached a slideshow that explains each camp. Or if you're interested, this explains them briefly. It's just something that's interesting.
Do you have a verse that speaks to you or encourages you that you'd like to share? Lately, these are my mantra: Psalm 84:11:For the LORD God is our sun and our shield. He gives us grace and glory. The LORD will withhold no good thing from those who do what is right. Psalm 113:9:He gives the childless woman a family, making her a happy mother. Praise the LORD! How are you feeling in general (can be regarding your faith, or not)? Okay at the moment, but I am still in the hopeful phase of WTO. Just praying so, so hard for this IUI to work next week. Do you have any praise or encouragement to share with others? I feel like lately everything is just working. Granted, I felt the same way a bit ago and everything fell apart. But I got new insurance that covers IUIs at 100%. It also covers acupuncture (WHAT?) at 100%. That's incredible! And then finding out about H's sperm count being almost normal.. I dunno. I just have hope. And that's scary, but also kind of refreshing. Any prayer requests? My IUI is scheduled tentatively for Monday, pending the follie check that morning. It's a double, so we will do follie check, trigger, IUI all on Monday, and then Tuesday or Wednesday do a second IUI. It's a lot of work, but so worth it if it works. At the same time, because there is hope, I have been having a lot of anxiety. I am TTCAL, so now that getting KU is possible again, I am just so nervous and scared. GTKY: What was your upbringing like? - were you raised in the church? We grew up "believers" but didn't go to church or anything. Till high school, and then we started going. That's kind of when I totally jumped on the train. I ended up going to a private Christian University.
TTC #1 since September 2014 Diagnoses: RPL, Endometriosis, MFI
(count, morph, DNI, DNAS, multiple bilateral subclinical varicoceles), low
progesterone Check out my Infertility blog Check out my Infertility Instagram
Loss History (TW):
BFP: 3 May 2015, loss confirmed 4 June 2015 BFP: 15 August 2015, loss confirmed 23 August 2015 BFP: 16 November 2015, loss confirmed 22 November 2015 BFP: 18 July 2016, loss confirmed same day BFP: 04 March 2018, loss confirmed 23 March 2018 BFP: 12 June 2018, TWINS; D&C 06 July 2018
TTC History (TW):
3 losses in 2015 Met with OBGYN in January 2016 Me: all clear, H: OAT November 2016: HSG = All
Clear!
January 2017: H tested again, High DNA fragmentation and stainability
February 2017: Clomid + TI + Progesterone = BFN
March 2017: Clomid + HCG + IUI + Progesterone = SA/wash: zero count on attempt
#1, <1,000 on attempt #2= BFN
Varicocele Embolization- 5 May 17 December 2017 SA: Zero improvement after embolization January IVF- 25 retrieved, 11 mature, 8 fertilized, 3 frozen day fives (3AA, 3AA, 3AA), 1 frozen day 6 (5BB), 1 frozen day 7 (3CC) Three PGS normal (3AA, 3AA, 5BB), one inconclusive (3AA) FET #1: 27 February 2018, 3AA & 5BB, one stuck! BFP 04 March 2018.... Loss confirmed 23 March 2018 May 2018: SHG/SIS = all clear "beautiful uterus" FET #2: 04 June 2018, 3AA PGS normal embryo, 3AA PGS hatching inconclusive embryo. BFP: 12 June 2018, EDD 20 February 2019 Ultrasound, 25 June 2018: There are two! Lost Baby A 02 July 2018 Baby B not growing, D&C 06 July 2018 Laparoscopy, hysteroscopy, chromotubation: 23 July 2018: blocked right tube, heavily inflamed, covered in endo. Removed right tube. Removed more endo from uterus, tubes, ovaries. Endo remains on bladder and bowel.
Next Up:
TTC Naturally, possibly IUIs for remainder of 2018. ER#2 ~Jan 2019
So I'm Jewish, but very spiritual, so I'm going to do this a little differently.
It was recently Purim, which is when we read the Megillah- the Torah portion that tells the story of Queen Esther and the victory over the evil Persian advisor who sought to destroy the Jews. I've always loved that story, not only because it's about my namesake (my Hebrew name- Esther Malka- literally translates to Esther the Queen), but because it's about a strong Jewish woman. When I feel weak (especially recently), that's a story and a figure I always think of.
It's been a little tough to get myself to Shul lately. I'm part of an awesome Progressive Conservative community, but a) our Rabbi is leaving soon, which sucks because she's a good friend and is awesome and b) it's hard to be there by myself with all of these families. It always makes me think of my Birthright trip, where on the last day one of the Rabbis there talked about how important it is to raise a good, Jewish family. Lord knows I'm trying, but it's hard to keep faith, especially with DH not around.
No particular prayer requests, but they say the strongest prayers are ones from a bride the night before her wedding, so if you know any Jewish soon-to-be brides, ask them to daven for you!
I was raised culturally Jewish, but secular. I became more religious after going to Israel on Birthright. DH was raised Orthodox but left the faith when he turned 18. It's been interesting, trying to combine our two views of the religion. Obviously our home isn't Kosher and we don't observe Shabbat (aside from occasionally going to Shul), but the holidays are important to us. I'll be venturing to see my in-laws for Passover, which should be interesting because they do the whole thing in Hebrew, which I don't speak.
Me: 28 DH: 29 Married: 6/2016 TTC #1: 12/2016 Benched due to deployment- Off the bench 8/8/17!
@LoveinDC Nice to "meet" you. I too don't believe that not everything is pre-planned or God-planned. We are responsible for what we do. However, I am also grappling with the fact that just because I feel like I'm doing everything "right" and going above and beyond does not mean that things will work out. And I also am trying to not take credit for all the good that happens in my life because I do think something greater than myself gets some credit for all that good stuff.
@TravelingCouple That verse is exactly what I needed. I think it captures something I struggle with. Just because I have faith doesn't mean I'll get everything I want. But it does mean that I don't have to walk alone. You can find rest and peace even in challenges. And yes - I totally am on the same page as you with the control thing. I keep trying to control everything. And it doesn't work!! I need to learn to give up control some. Because I am the same - trying to control everything is pushing me to be unhappy. I am learning to accept that I can't control everything. I'll pray for peace for you.
@KristoKekerooni That's awesome they cover acupuncture! Have you done it yet? I did last cycle and would do it again if insurance covered it. *TW* I am also TTCAL, and it's difficult. I used to feel like as long as I got KU, everything would be good, but now there's another element of fear. *end TW* Extra prayers and good thoughts for you on Monday!
@jsnakehole Another "new face" to me. Hi. I've never heard that about the bride before her wedding night. I wish I knew a Jewish bride! I've also found religious communities can sometimes be hard to be around when TTC because they are so filled with families!
Do you have a verse that speaks to you or encourages you that you'd like to share? I listened to some podcasts from Crosspoint Church recently and I liked a point the pastor made. He said that quote, "God will never give you more than you can handle" is crap. (Maybe he didn't say it quite like that.) But he pointed out the Bible is full of stories of God giving you more than you can handle, and the only way to make it through is to ask a higher power to be in your life and walk with you through it (or something like that). That's where I'm at.
How are you feeling in general (can be regarding your faith, or not)? I almost lost it today when I found out my medications might be over $2,000 this cycle plus I'm dealing with a lot of stuff at work. I was quickly sinking into panic mode. But I used some positive thinking (faith) and deep breathing and I am not obsessively searching the internet or crying on the couch right now.
Do you have any praise or encouragement to share with others? I went in for baseline B/W and U/S this morning and for once my hormones actually are pretty close to levels of someone who doesn't have PCOS. I'm feeling thankful for that and hoping it's a good sign.
Any prayer requests?
GTKY: What was your upbringing like? - were you raised in the church? I was not raised in a church but somehow I had people in my life all throughout it that were religious. They were all different "types" of Christianity, so I occasionally bounced around with various people to various churches. And I would say my mom was spiritual, but not into organized religion, so I have that as my base.
Do you have a verse that speaks to you or encourages you that you'd like to share? For the Lord God is a sun and a shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly. (Psalms 84:11)
How are you feeling in general (can be regarding your faith, or not)? Surprisingly, after getting recent bad news I kind of feel like my faith has been renewed. I feel like before we were trying so hard to make it happen whereas now we are forced to rely on God for it to happen. Some part of me is very at peace with this, as if I know this is how it should have been all along.
Do you have any praise or encouragement to share with others? I have seen God do amazing things in my life before. As an example, I have a chronic illness and I got very sick when I was away from home at university. I was alone, going to and from the hospital for tests and procedures. The doctors had a hard time believing what I was going through because I didn't look like it. It took a couple of days for my mom to get there to help me out since I was in a different country. Just after she arrived I literally felt like all the strength and energy abruptly left my body. For a couple days after I couldn't even sit up to eat because I was so weak. It didn't matter though because I had my mom to take care of me. I honestly feel like God gave me the strength to get though that time until I had help. I keep reminding myself that the same God that did that and so many other things can give me a baby at the right time.
Any prayer requests?
GTKY: What was your upbringing like? - were you raised in the church? I actually rebelled against religion for a while after having it forced on me in my teenage years. Even now I consider myself spiritual but not religious and I haven't found a church yet although I am not opposed to going to church.
Do you have a verse that speaks to you or encourages you that you'd like to share?
But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. James 1:6
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours Mark 11:24
How are you feeling in general (can be regarding your faith, or not)?
I'm really trying to step out in faith. I know that I am a child of God and that He loves me. God has done so much in my life in so many areas and cares about it all nothing is too big or too small. I agree with so many others here about always wanting to have control of things. I always think I know when I don't. Whenever I pray I always say "father God" and I don't even realize I do it sometimes. But it made me think. If I wanted something really bad would my dad want to give it to me? Of course he would, he would do whatever he could cause I'm his daughter and he loves me. When I was a child I remember wanting things and getting mad being told to wait. I remember really wanting an American Girl doll and my mom made me wait to get it. She knew if I was too young I would ruin it and it was expensive. I had to wait but when I got one and really valued and appreciated it. She was wiser and knew better than me. God has all wisdom He knows all things. He wants me to have all the desires of my heart and sometimes my timing isn't His timing but that doesn't mean no. I mentioned this on the IF board but I ordered a book online it's a daily devotional about praying for each week of your baby's development (for example the week when the baby is developing feet it prays for the baby and that they will walk the path that God has for them). I'm just continuing to trust in Him. I know His word and His promises and I won't be blown and tossed by the wind.
Do you have any praise or encouragement to share with others? See above
Any prayer requests? @TravelingCouple your peace sounds like confirmation! Praying for you and YH for continued comfort, guidance, and confidence that the peace you have in your decision is God's direction
@KristoKekerooni praying for complete peace and strength for you next week and rebuke any fear or anxiety that tries to get in the way of your hope and faithfulness
GTKY: What was your upbringing like? - were you raised in the church? I was raised Catholic but when I was 12 we started going to a non denominational church. that is actually exactly where I met my husband as an adult, (a story of God's faithfulness for another day). we still go there today.
I just have to say how much I love that this thread happening, even if I don't have time to read all the checkins right now! I will try to catch up when I can... ❤ you ladies are awesome... Thank you each so much for sharing your experiences and faith so freely! :D
God is good! And when we feel at our weakest, it gives me courage to knkw we can do all good things through Him who stregthens us.
I have reminded myself often, too, even in the depths of despair this journey has shown me... <b>yet I will praise Him.</b> <b>Through the tears, I will praise Him. For if I can praise Him in joy, so too must I praise Him in sorrow. </b> And that is a fact that has helped keep my hope alive. No matter how painful the struggle may get, I know He knows, because He's right here beside me, and he will never leave my side. ❤ or yours ;)
@safire3 I also feel like I align more with "spiritual not religious" and I don't attend a church. I was thinking of joining a church, but I don't know which one, and MH doesn't really want to. I'm so glad this board was created so I do have some kind of community for talking about faith. Thanks @KristoKekerooni for the idea and @TravelingCouple for setting it up!
@madspunk - No, my first appointment is Monday right before my IUI. The acupuncturist insisted I have it done before and after the IUI. Did I mention how awesome this guy is before? He does the chiro and acu stuff, so he's so hands on. He also assured me that if when I get pregnant he will be doing betas, and test progesterone weekly, and to continue to see him through the pregnancy, because he will also monitor more levels of random stuff (I didn't pay a ton of attention to what, because I'm not pregnant yet, so...) He is so hands on he immediately started writing up labs for me to get CD3s, MTHFR, etc. checked, and I had to stop him to tell him I already have. He made me release my entire medical history to him and he is spending time going over the history this week. I meet with him Wednesday for our follow-up review appointment. At that point he will decide if he thinks I need any repeat labs or if there are any labs I didn't have done. He's so awesome. before I left he grabbed my by the shoulders and said "We are gonna get you pregnant, and I'm gonna make sure you stay pregnant." I seriously might love him.
TTC #1 since September 2014 Diagnoses: RPL, Endometriosis, MFI
(count, morph, DNI, DNAS, multiple bilateral subclinical varicoceles), low
progesterone Check out my Infertility blog Check out my Infertility Instagram
Loss History (TW):
BFP: 3 May 2015, loss confirmed 4 June 2015 BFP: 15 August 2015, loss confirmed 23 August 2015 BFP: 16 November 2015, loss confirmed 22 November 2015 BFP: 18 July 2016, loss confirmed same day BFP: 04 March 2018, loss confirmed 23 March 2018 BFP: 12 June 2018, TWINS; D&C 06 July 2018
TTC History (TW):
3 losses in 2015 Met with OBGYN in January 2016 Me: all clear, H: OAT November 2016: HSG = All
Clear!
January 2017: H tested again, High DNA fragmentation and stainability
February 2017: Clomid + TI + Progesterone = BFN
March 2017: Clomid + HCG + IUI + Progesterone = SA/wash: zero count on attempt
#1, <1,000 on attempt #2= BFN
Varicocele Embolization- 5 May 17 December 2017 SA: Zero improvement after embolization January IVF- 25 retrieved, 11 mature, 8 fertilized, 3 frozen day fives (3AA, 3AA, 3AA), 1 frozen day 6 (5BB), 1 frozen day 7 (3CC) Three PGS normal (3AA, 3AA, 5BB), one inconclusive (3AA) FET #1: 27 February 2018, 3AA & 5BB, one stuck! BFP 04 March 2018.... Loss confirmed 23 March 2018 May 2018: SHG/SIS = all clear "beautiful uterus" FET #2: 04 June 2018, 3AA PGS normal embryo, 3AA PGS hatching inconclusive embryo. BFP: 12 June 2018, EDD 20 February 2019 Ultrasound, 25 June 2018: There are two! Lost Baby A 02 July 2018 Baby B not growing, D&C 06 July 2018 Laparoscopy, hysteroscopy, chromotubation: 23 July 2018: blocked right tube, heavily inflamed, covered in endo. Removed right tube. Removed more endo from uterus, tubes, ovaries. Endo remains on bladder and bowel.
Next Up:
TTC Naturally, possibly IUIs for remainder of 2018. ER#2 ~Jan 2019
I absolutely love this thread! Thank you @travelingcouple for starting it! While I did read all of your check-ins, I don't have the time to respond as much as I would like. But I do want to say that all of you women are amazing. You have all been through your own struggles and I am in awe of the strength that you have. It is very inspiring and I hope the best for each and every one of you.
Do you have a verse that speaks to you or encourages you that you'd like to share? YES! The one verse that always brings me back to remembering God's plan is John 13:7- "Jesus replied, 'You don't understand now what I am doing. But someday you will."
How are you feeling in general (can be regarding your faith, or not)?
I feel very blessed to be in a good spot. I had a hard 6 months with no AF, no O, and 5 weeks of spotting. My hormones were going crazy and I honestly was not sure I could get through it. Not only was my body not working, but it was making me an emotional mess. But I got through it and it has caused me to take better care of myself. I am constantly nervous that my body will stop ovulating again but I am trying not to focus on that and just focus on taking care of myself. I have since lost weight and feel great and it makes me excited to continue down this path.
Do you have any praise or encouragement to share with others? see above.
Any prayer requests?
GTKY: What was your upbringing like? - were you raised in the church? My parents are very strong Christians. Mostly non denominational. I went to a Lutheran grade school and high school. I actually have not been practicing my religion much as an adult but recently started getting back into it and it has helped me with a lot.
Me: 29 DH:30 Dating 03/31/2011 Married 10/18/2014 DS Born 12/28/2017 TTC #2 06/2019
I'm really enjoying reading everyone's choice of verse or scripture that has helped them through these times, so thank you all for sharing. I feel like I don't have a lot to contribute yet but I love the idea of this post.
@KristoKekerooni that was really interesting, thanks for sharing!
@jsnakehole I'm glad you posted, I loved your story about Esther and how it relates to you too.
@madspunk we were just talking about that too at the church I go to - nowhere in the Bible does it say God will not give you more than you can handle. It's full of him giving people way more than they could handle. Someone stuck it on a meme and now it's a household saying.
@safire3 I love hearing how God has worked in other's life. There are so many times I can look back on and see how he was right with me through terrible times. I don't always notice it right away when I'm in it.
@beachbunnyxo123 I love your sentiment about God being our father and have been thinking about that parallel myself when I'm disciplining DS and he doesn't understand why I'm saying no or not now. Also, I had that prayer book with my pregnancy with DS and it brought me a lot of peace. Highly recommend.
@BusinessWife I'm glad so many ladies are finding peace in this thread, I know I am too
@LaurenEG14 good for you on taking care of yourself and kudos for the weight loss!
I thought I'd share a few songs that have really been a blessing to me recently.
@beachbunnyxo123, your post spoke to me in so many ways, especially in god being a parental figure and knowing when is our time. **TW, this should have been our EDD, and while I didn't think about it most of the day, it really hit me hard tonight, and your words reminded me that patience will be rewarded. You too @BusinessWife
@KristoKekerooni, glad to hear your update, and hoping the best for you! Just so glad you're getting the care you deserve!
@madspunk, especially in a period in my life where I have accepted that I have to much to handle (both TTC-wise and work-wise, and particularly both at once), your message really resonated with me. Thanks for that reminder that sometimes it's ok to accept that it's too much.
Like @hartmich, I don't have much to contribute lately to this thread, but this has been so inspiring to me in what I am currently going through. Thanks to everyone contributing! I am reminded once again if why we need to find a great church in our new area to renew our faith in these times especially.
Me: 30 | DH: 31 Met: August 2006 Married: July 2012 TTC #1 since June 2016
@beachbunnyxo123 What's the name of that prayer book? I definitely want to buy it!
@KristoKekerooni I think I'm in love with your acupuncturist. He sounds awesome! I've had acupuncture before but she definitely wasn't involved like that! It sounds like you have yourself a keeper.
@LaurenEG14 6 months with no AF and spotting is hard. I've been there before. I'm glad you're body seems to be up and running now, and that the whole experience has led you to take better care of yourself. FX you keep O'ing.
@icecubeinthedesert It's especially difficult when it's multiple areas of your life where you have too much on your plate! Hearing all the stories on this board puts me in awe of how strong the people here are.
@icecubeinthedesert It's especially difficult when it's multiple areas of your life where you have too much on your plate! Hearing all the stories on this board puts me in awe of how strong the people here are.
So much this. We all have our moments that are dark and we feel like we are at the bottom, but just remember you are not alone and you are already surviving it and doing it every single day.
Thanks for the tag @TravelingCouple - sorry I've been MIA for about a week, I just started a new job so it's been kind of an overwhelming week.
Do you have a verse that speaks to you or encourages you that you'd like to share? "I prayed for this child, and the LORD has granted me what I asked of him." - 1 Samuel 1:27
Not sure why, but this one brings me comfort.
How are you feeling in general (can be regarding your faith, or not)? I'm feeling a lot better lately. the fact is, God has my days written. He has a perfect plan for my life. His timing is perfect. Who am I to complain about it? I've been writing down everything I'm thankful for in my life and all the blessings He HAS given me, rather than focusing on what He hasn't yet given me. It's brought me a lot of peace. Also, I started my dream job this week...a job I have worked towards for almost 10 years. So that is keeping me pretty distracted.
Do you have any praise or encouragement to share with others? Choose joy. Remember to stay thankful for all you do have. Ultimately, He is good.
Any prayer requests? I'm wondering if I should take a break TTC for awhile. As I said, I started a new job in the neonatal ICU this week and it's super intense. There's a lot I need to learn and it's super overwhelming. It's been my dream for over 10 years to work here and I started my schooling in 2008 and just finished this past December. I know that this job is going to take up most of my focus for the next 6 months or so....if I'm going to the clinic every 2 days and worrying about TTC on top of that...plus going on mat leave right when I start the job? It's just all very conflicting. I'm not sure what to do.
GTKY: What was your upbringing like? - were you raised in the church? My parents were both atheists...one day when I was about 5 my dad suddenly wanted to take me to church. I'm not sure what brought this about but he did, my mom thought he was nuts. Eventually she came around too and we attended ever since...mostly baptist churches. My husband and I have always been invovled in the church and it's a huge part of our lives. We attend a pentecostal church now.
Me: 27 // DH: 30 Married 05/21/2011 TTC Since Feb 2016 RE: Dec 2016 Dx: PCOS 5 rounds of Letrozole 5mg + Ovidrel + TI BFP!!!! June 2017 // EDD: 04/01/2018 IT'S A BOY!
Re: Prayers & Faith Check-In
Do you have a verse that speaks to you or encourages you that you'd like to share? Not a verse, but The Serenity Prayer has always been very comforting to me. Moreso once I started going to therapy and deciding to live a life of acceptance.
How are you feeling in general (can be regarding your faith, or not)? I've been doing better. Seeing my therapist on Tuesday really helped me. I worry about telling people we're TTC because I don't want anyone to bring God into it. I don't believe He plays an active role in our lives. Things don't happen "for a reason." Every road block is not "part of His plan." God doesn't have the time to add struggles to my life. He didn't plan every moment of my journey. The more I believe that, the less responsibility I have for my actions. God grants me the tools, but I have to put in the effort to make it happen. Believing any less gives me permission to do nothing and wait for God to figure it out for me.
Do you have any praise or encouragement to share with others?
Any prayer requests?
GTKY: What was your upbringing like? - were you raised in the church? I was baptized and received my first communion in the Catholic church. After the church scandals of the late 90s and early 2000s, my mom wanted out of the church. We converted to Lutheranism where I was confirmed and was very active until my high school graduation. My extended family ranges from heavy-duty Christian to what I call "Catholic in principle, not in practice" where they live their life by Catholic principles, but don't really go to church every week.
Looking back now that I've typed this all up...read ahead for a novel. Haha. Can you tell I've had a lot on my mind lately??
Do you have a verse that speaks to you or encourages you that you'd like to share?
But those who trust in the Lord for help will find their strength renewed. They will rise on wings like eagles; they will run and not get weary; they will walk and not grow weak.
Isaiah 40:31
I came across this verse yesterday and it really gave me peace.
How are you feeling in general (can be regarding your faith, or not)?
I posted about this in the IF thread because that's pretty much the only place I post these days... I have felt such a shift in myself over the past few days. Throughout the winter, probably since November (since that marked 1 full year of TTC), I have felt really low, depressed and lost. I've asked God to give me a sign to show me what the right path is...am I not getting pregnant because we are meant to adopt? Am I supposed to focus on growing my home business right now? Are we just supposed to have 1 child despite my deepest desires for a large family? I have been struggling with knowing whether or not the path we're on is the right one. I've had a hard time fully trusting in God through this IF journey because there are so many pieces that are out of my control that I just want to hold on to it to maintain some form of control. I said that recently to a friend (who loves me dearly and was totally coming a place of complete love) who said and how's that working out for you? And that really hit me because, yeah, trying to control it myself is not working out for me. It's digging me into this deep pit of depression and anger and I've lost sight of the person I used to be before IF.
On Tuesday I heard a woman share her story on IF and how God was with her through it, even when she felt like she was losing every ounce of herself in the midst of it. SO much of what she shared, I identified with. I really felt like God was speaking to me through her to tell me: Trust Me. God knows that is the hardest thing for me - to fully and utterly trust him with this path to another child. I spoke with the woman who shared her story afterward and I told her that (that it's hard for me to trust) and she said, yeah, of course, because it makes you vulnerable to pain. This life ain't easy and IF is by far the most gut wrenching emotional exhaustion I've experienced in my life. But I have felt such a different peace in the last few days and keep trying to remember to give this to God because it truly is ultimately in his hands.
Do you have any praise or encouragement to share with others?
I think that is covered in my previous essay long answer
Any prayer requests?
Yes. So DH and I have decided (as of now at least) that if this cycle isn't it for us, we'll be taking a "break" until June. I will be traveling 4 days during my now-predicted FW in April and when I mentioned it to the doctor today, she said they could put me on BC...I just stopped her right there because I definitely do not want to do that. May we'll be in Hawaii for 9 days which is way too long to work in a medicated cycle that month. So that brings us to June. Thinking about it right now actually gives me peace. We would never prevent, but we are planning to stop tracking and just have sex when we want to during April & May. All that to say that prayers for peace of my mind would be awesome. Right now I feel ok about it, but I don't know how I'll feel if and when my period does show up this month. With the travel plans, we don't have much of a choice anyway, but please pray that I can continue to feel peaceful about this decision. It does mean I'd be going to my sister's baby shower in June not pregnant, and I know that will be really hard for me.
GTKY: What was your upbringing like? - were you raised in the church?
I was raised Christian in a Presbyterian church. It was not the best experience of church for me and there were a lot of things that went on that shouldn't have. It is literally only a miracle that I still believe in God and have my own relationship with him. My parents divorced when I was 11 and my Mom went to one extreme - Presbyterian "on crack" as I like to call it. Way too long to go into detail here. And my Dad went to Greek Orthodox. I just really needed to find my own path and just stick to the Bible and now my family attends a non-denominational church. I get a lot out of the sermons as they are very relevant to daily life and I love the people there.
@TravelingCouple - Prayers for you, friend.
Do you have a verse that speaks to you or encourages you that you'd like to share?
Lately, these are my mantra:
Psalm 84:11:For the LORD God is our sun and our shield. He gives us grace and glory. The LORD will withhold no good thing from those who do what is right.
Psalm 113:9:He gives the childless woman a family, making her a happy mother. Praise the LORD!
How are you feeling in general (can be regarding your faith, or not)?
Okay at the moment, but I am still in the hopeful phase of WTO. Just praying so, so hard for this IUI to work next week.
Do you have any praise or encouragement to share with others?
I feel like lately everything is just working. Granted, I felt the same way a bit ago and everything fell apart. But I got new insurance that covers IUIs at 100%. It also covers acupuncture (WHAT?) at 100%. That's incredible!
And then finding out about H's sperm count being almost normal.. I dunno. I just have hope. And that's scary, but also kind of refreshing.
Any prayer requests?
My IUI is scheduled tentatively for Monday, pending the follie check that morning. It's a double, so we will do follie check, trigger, IUI all on Monday, and then Tuesday or Wednesday do a second IUI. It's a lot of work, but so worth it if it works.
At the same time, because there is hope, I have been having a lot of anxiety. I am TTCAL, so now that getting KU is possible again, I am just so nervous and scared.
GTKY: What was your upbringing like? - were you raised in the church?
We grew up "believers" but didn't go to church or anything. Till high school, and then we started going. That's kind of when I totally jumped on the train. I ended up going to a private Christian University.
Diagnoses: RPL, Endometriosis, MFI (count, morph, DNI, DNAS, multiple bilateral subclinical varicoceles), low progesterone
Check out my Infertility blog
Check out my Infertility Instagram
BFP: 15 August 2015, loss confirmed 23 August 2015
BFP: 16 November 2015, loss confirmed 22 November 2015
BFP: 18 July 2016, loss confirmed same day
BFP: 04 March 2018, loss confirmed 23 March 2018
BFP: 12 June 2018, TWINS; D&C 06 July 2018
Met with OBGYN in January 2016
Me: all clear, H: OAT
November 2016: HSG = All Clear!
January 2017: H tested again, High DNA fragmentation and stainability
February 2017: Clomid + TI + Progesterone = BFN
March 2017: Clomid + HCG + IUI + Progesterone = SA/wash: zero count on attempt #1, <1,000 on attempt #2= BFN
Varicocele Embolization- 5 May 17
December 2017 SA: Zero improvement after embolization
January IVF- 25 retrieved, 11 mature, 8 fertilized, 3 frozen day fives (3AA, 3AA, 3AA), 1 frozen day 6 (5BB), 1 frozen day 7 (3CC)
Three PGS normal (3AA, 3AA, 5BB), one inconclusive (3AA)
FET #1: 27 February 2018, 3AA & 5BB, one stuck! BFP 04 March 2018.... Loss confirmed 23 March 2018
May 2018: SHG/SIS = all clear "beautiful uterus"
FET #2: 04 June 2018, 3AA PGS normal embryo, 3AA PGS hatching inconclusive embryo.
BFP: 12 June 2018, EDD 20 February 2019
Ultrasound, 25 June 2018: There are two!
Lost Baby A 02 July 2018
Baby B not growing, D&C 06 July 2018
Laparoscopy, hysteroscopy, chromotubation: 23 July 2018: blocked right tube, heavily inflamed, covered in endo. Removed right tube. Removed more endo from uterus, tubes, ovaries. Endo remains on bladder and bowel.
ER#2 ~Jan 2019
It was recently Purim, which is when we read the Megillah- the Torah portion that tells the story of Queen Esther and the victory over the evil Persian advisor who sought to destroy the Jews. I've always loved that story, not only because it's about my namesake (my Hebrew name- Esther Malka- literally translates to Esther the Queen), but because it's about a strong Jewish woman. When I feel weak (especially recently), that's a story and a figure I always think of.
It's been a little tough to get myself to Shul lately. I'm part of an awesome Progressive Conservative community, but a) our Rabbi is leaving soon, which sucks because she's a good friend and is awesome and b) it's hard to be there by myself with all of these families. It always makes me think of my Birthright trip, where on the last day one of the Rabbis there talked about how important it is to raise a good, Jewish family. Lord knows I'm trying, but it's hard to keep faith, especially with DH not around.
No particular prayer requests, but they say the strongest prayers are ones from a bride the night before her wedding, so if you know any Jewish soon-to-be brides, ask them to daven for you!
I was raised culturally Jewish, but secular. I became more religious after going to Israel on Birthright. DH was raised Orthodox but left the faith when he turned 18. It's been interesting, trying to combine our two views of the religion. Obviously our home isn't Kosher and we don't observe Shabbat (aside from occasionally going to Shul), but the holidays are important to us. I'll be venturing to see my in-laws for Passover, which should be interesting because they do the whole thing in Hebrew, which I don't speak.
Married: 6/2016
TTC #1: 12/2016
Benched due to deployment- Off the bench 8/8/17!
@TravelingCouple That verse is exactly what I needed. I think it captures something I struggle with. Just because I have faith doesn't mean I'll get everything I want. But it does mean that I don't have to walk alone. You can find rest and peace even in challenges.
And yes - I totally am on the same page as you with the control thing. I keep trying to control everything. And it doesn't work!! I need to learn to give up control some. Because I am the same - trying to control everything is pushing me to be unhappy. I am learning to accept that I can't control everything.
I'll pray for peace for you.
@KristoKekerooni That's awesome they cover acupuncture! Have you done it yet? I did last cycle and would do it again if insurance covered it. *TW* I am also TTCAL, and it's difficult. I used to feel like as long as I got KU, everything would be good, but now there's another element of fear. *end TW* Extra prayers and good thoughts for you on Monday!
@jsnakehole Another "new face" to me. Hi. I've never heard that about the bride before her wedding night. I wish I knew a Jewish bride! I've also found religious communities can sometimes be hard to be around when TTC because they are so filled with families!
Do you have a verse that speaks to you or encourages you that you'd like to share?
I listened to some podcasts from Crosspoint Church recently and I liked a point the pastor made. He said that quote, "God will never give you more than you can handle" is crap. (Maybe he didn't say it quite like that.) But he pointed out the Bible is full of stories of God giving you more than you can handle, and the only way to make it through is to ask a higher power to be in your life and walk with you through it (or something like that). That's where I'm at.
How are you feeling in general (can be regarding your faith, or not)?
I almost lost it today when I found out my medications might be over $2,000 this cycle plus I'm dealing with a lot of stuff at work. I was quickly sinking into panic mode. But I used some positive thinking (faith) and deep breathing and I am not obsessively searching the internet or crying on the couch right now.
Do you have any praise or encouragement to share with others?
I went in for baseline B/W and U/S this morning and for once my hormones actually are pretty close to levels of someone who doesn't have PCOS. I'm feeling thankful for that and hoping it's a good sign.
Any prayer requests?
GTKY: What was your upbringing like? - were you raised in the church?
I was not raised in a church but somehow I had people in my life all throughout it that were religious. They were all different "types" of Christianity, so I occasionally bounced around with various people to various churches. And I would say my mom was spiritual, but not into organized religion, so I have that as my base.
For the Lord God is a sun and a shield: the Lord will give grace and glory: no good thing will he withhold from them that walk uprightly. (Psalms 84:11)
How are you feeling in general (can be regarding your faith, or not)?
Surprisingly, after getting recent bad news I kind of feel like my faith has been renewed. I feel like before we were trying so hard to make it happen whereas now we are forced to rely on God for it to happen. Some part of me is very at peace with this, as if I know this is how it should have been all along.
Do you have any praise or encouragement to share with others?
I have seen God do amazing things in my life before. As an example, I have a chronic illness and I got very sick when I was away from home at university. I was alone, going to and from the hospital for tests and procedures. The doctors had a hard time believing what I was going through because I didn't look like it. It took a couple of days for my mom to get there to help me out since I was in a different country. Just after she arrived I literally felt like all the strength and energy abruptly left my body. For a couple days after I couldn't even sit up to eat because I was so weak. It didn't matter though because I had my mom to take care of me. I honestly feel like God gave me the strength to get though that time until I had help. I keep reminding myself that the same God that did that and so many other things can give me a baby at the right time.
Any prayer requests?
GTKY: What was your upbringing like? - were you raised in the church?
I actually rebelled against religion for a while after having it forced on me in my teenage years. Even now I consider myself spiritual but not religious and I haven't found a church yet although I am not opposed to going to church.
But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.
James 1:6
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours
Mark 11:24
How are you feeling in general (can be regarding your faith, or not)?
I'm really trying to step out in faith. I know that I am a child of God and that He loves me. God has done so much in my life in so many areas and cares about it all nothing is too big or too small. I agree with so many others here about always wanting to have control of things. I always think I know when I don't. Whenever I pray I always say "father God" and I don't even realize I do it sometimes. But it made me think. If I wanted something really bad would my dad want to give it to me? Of course he would, he would do whatever he could cause I'm his daughter and he loves me. When I was a child I remember wanting things and getting mad being told to wait. I remember really wanting an American Girl doll and my mom made me wait to get it. She knew if I was too young I would ruin it and it was expensive. I had to wait but when I got one and really valued and appreciated it. She was wiser and knew better than me. God has all wisdom He knows all things. He wants me to have all the desires of my heart and sometimes my timing isn't His timing but that doesn't mean no. I mentioned this on the IF board but I ordered a book online it's a daily devotional about praying for each week of your baby's development (for example the week when the baby is developing feet it prays for the baby and that they will walk the path that God has for them). I'm just continuing to trust in Him. I know His word and His promises and I won't be blown and tossed by the wind.
Do you have any praise or encouragement to share with others?
See above
Any prayer requests?
@TravelingCouple your peace sounds like confirmation! Praying for you and YH for continued comfort, guidance, and confidence that the peace you have in your decision is God's direction
@KristoKekerooni praying for complete peace and strength for you next week and rebuke any fear or anxiety that tries to get in the way of your hope and faithfulness
GTKY: What was your upbringing like? - were you raised in the church?
I was raised Catholic but when I was 12 we started going to a non denominational church. that is actually exactly where I met my husband as an adult, (a story of God's faithfulness for another day). we still go there today.
God is good! And when we feel at our weakest, it gives me courage to knkw we can do all good things through Him who stregthens us.
I have reminded myself often, too, even in the depths of despair this journey has shown me... <b>yet I will praise Him.</b> <b>Through the tears, I will praise Him. For if I can praise Him in joy, so too must I praise Him in sorrow. </b> And that is a fact that has helped keep my hope alive. No matter how painful the struggle may get, I know He knows, because He's right here beside me, and he will never leave my side. ❤ or yours ;)
Diagnoses: RPL, Endometriosis, MFI (count, morph, DNI, DNAS, multiple bilateral subclinical varicoceles), low progesterone
Check out my Infertility blog
Check out my Infertility Instagram
BFP: 15 August 2015, loss confirmed 23 August 2015
BFP: 16 November 2015, loss confirmed 22 November 2015
BFP: 18 July 2016, loss confirmed same day
BFP: 04 March 2018, loss confirmed 23 March 2018
BFP: 12 June 2018, TWINS; D&C 06 July 2018
Met with OBGYN in January 2016
Me: all clear, H: OAT
November 2016: HSG = All Clear!
January 2017: H tested again, High DNA fragmentation and stainability
February 2017: Clomid + TI + Progesterone = BFN
March 2017: Clomid + HCG + IUI + Progesterone = SA/wash: zero count on attempt #1, <1,000 on attempt #2= BFN
Varicocele Embolization- 5 May 17
December 2017 SA: Zero improvement after embolization
January IVF- 25 retrieved, 11 mature, 8 fertilized, 3 frozen day fives (3AA, 3AA, 3AA), 1 frozen day 6 (5BB), 1 frozen day 7 (3CC)
Three PGS normal (3AA, 3AA, 5BB), one inconclusive (3AA)
FET #1: 27 February 2018, 3AA & 5BB, one stuck! BFP 04 March 2018.... Loss confirmed 23 March 2018
May 2018: SHG/SIS = all clear "beautiful uterus"
FET #2: 04 June 2018, 3AA PGS normal embryo, 3AA PGS hatching inconclusive embryo.
BFP: 12 June 2018, EDD 20 February 2019
Ultrasound, 25 June 2018: There are two!
Lost Baby A 02 July 2018
Baby B not growing, D&C 06 July 2018
Laparoscopy, hysteroscopy, chromotubation: 23 July 2018: blocked right tube, heavily inflamed, covered in endo. Removed right tube. Removed more endo from uterus, tubes, ovaries. Endo remains on bladder and bowel.
ER#2 ~Jan 2019
Dating 03/31/2011 Married 10/18/2014
DS Born 12/28/2017
TTC #2 06/2019
@jsnakehole I'm glad you posted, I loved your story about Esther and how it relates to you too.
@madspunk we were just talking about that too at the church I go to - nowhere in the Bible does it say God will not give you more than you can handle. It's full of him giving people way more than they could handle. Someone stuck it on a meme and now it's a household saying.
@safire3 I love hearing how God has worked in other's life. There are so many times I can look back on and see how he was right with me through terrible times. I don't always notice it right away when I'm in it.
@beachbunnyxo123 I love your sentiment about God being our father and have been thinking about that parallel myself when I'm disciplining DS and he doesn't understand why I'm saying no or not now. Also, I had that prayer book with my pregnancy with DS and it brought me a lot of peace. Highly recommend.
@BusinessWife I'm glad so many ladies are finding peace in this thread, I know I am too
@LaurenEG14 good for you on taking care of yourself and kudos for the weight loss!
I thought I'd share a few songs that have really been a blessing to me recently.
"Thy Will Be Done" Hillary Scott
https://youtu.be/Dp4WC_YZAuw
"It is Well" Bethel Music
https://youtu.be/YNqo4Un2uZI
"Even When it Hurts" Hillsong United
https://youtu.be/cx6JsMhhOFk
@KristoKekerooni, glad to hear your update, and hoping the best for you! Just so glad you're getting the care you deserve!
@madspunk, especially in a period in my life where I have accepted that I have to much to handle (both TTC-wise and work-wise, and particularly both at once), your message really resonated with me. Thanks for that reminder that sometimes it's ok to accept that it's too much.
Like @hartmich, I don't have much to contribute lately to this thread, but this has been so inspiring to me in what I am currently going through. Thanks to everyone contributing! I am reminded once again if why we need to find a great church in our new area to renew our faith in these times especially.
Me: 30 | DH: 31
Met: August 2006
Married: July 2012
TTC #1 since June 2016
***TW***
BFP: 7/12/16 | MC: 9/12/16
BFP: 1/18/17 | MMC: 2/13/17
BFP: 10/7/17 | EDD: 6/21/17
MTHFR: homozygous A1298C
@KristoKekerooni I think I'm in love with your acupuncturist. He sounds awesome! I've had acupuncture before but she definitely wasn't involved like that! It sounds like you have yourself a keeper.
@LaurenEG14 6 months with no AF and spotting is hard. I've been there before. I'm glad you're body seems to be up and running now, and that the whole experience has led you to take better care of yourself. FX you keep O'ing.
@icecubeinthedesert It's especially difficult when it's multiple areas of your life where you have too much on your plate! Hearing all the stories on this board puts me in awe of how strong the people here are.
Do you have a verse that speaks to you or encourages you that you'd like to share?
"I prayed for this child, and the LORD has granted me what I asked of him." - 1 Samuel 1:27
Not sure why, but this one brings me comfort.
How are you feeling in general (can be regarding your faith, or not)?
I'm feeling a lot better lately. the fact is, God has my days written. He has a perfect plan for my life. His timing is perfect. Who am I to complain about it? I've been writing down everything I'm thankful for in my life and all the blessings He HAS given me, rather than focusing on what He hasn't yet given me. It's brought me a lot of peace. Also, I started my dream job this week...a job I have worked towards for almost 10 years. So that is keeping me pretty distracted.
Do you have any praise or encouragement to share with others?
Choose joy. Remember to stay thankful for all you do have. Ultimately, He is good.
Any prayer requests?
I'm wondering if I should take a break TTC for awhile. As I said, I started a new job in the neonatal ICU this week and it's super intense. There's a lot I need to learn and it's super overwhelming. It's been my dream for over 10 years to work here and I started my schooling in 2008 and just finished this past December. I know that this job is going to take up most of my focus for the next 6 months or so....if I'm going to the clinic every 2 days and worrying about TTC on top of that...plus going on mat leave right when I start the job? It's just all very conflicting. I'm not sure what to do.
GTKY: What was your upbringing like? - were you raised in the church?
My parents were both atheists...one day when I was about 5 my dad suddenly wanted to take me to church. I'm not sure what brought this about but he did, my mom thought he was nuts. Eventually she came around too and we attended ever since...mostly baptist churches. My husband and I have always been invovled in the church and it's a huge part of our lives. We attend a pentecostal church now.
Married 05/21/2011
TTC Since Feb 2016
RE: Dec 2016 Dx: PCOS
5 rounds of Letrozole 5mg + Ovidrel + TI
BFP!!!! June 2017 // EDD: 04/01/2018
IT'S A BOY!