If the personhood bills are your jam, I respect your religion and your right to your opinion, but you might want to skip this thread.
I attended a local civic fair today to learn some things about my community and meet my legislators. My local chapter of resolve.org was there and I talked for some time with the organizer (who had her beautiful daughter through surrogacy). There is an advocacy day on May 18 and I may head to DC with them, or at least help in some way. In the meantime, they gave me information on what we can do to STOP two bills (H.R. 586 and H.R. 681) that aim to undermine access to safe and reliable infertility medical treatments.
Essentially - the way these bills are worded will pretty much outlaw IVF and surrogacy. Once sperm meets egg, it would be illegal to do absolutely anything to the embryo, including transfer, genetic testing, ICSI, and disposal of unused embryos. **THESE BILLS HAVE LEGS. In the past, it was almost a given they would die in sub-committee, but not in our current situation.
I am your constituent and I care about (OR: I AM ONE OF) the 7.3 million people (NSFG, CDC) living with infertility. I urge you to oppose H.R. 586 and H.R. 681, "To provide that human life shall be deemed to begin with fertilization." These bills have dangerous unintended consequences that will interfere with in vitro fertilization (IVF) and make it harder for any American who struggles to have a child gain access to safe and effective medical treatment. Today, 1 out of every 100 births in the U.S. is from assisted reproductive technologies (ART) such as IVF.
By equating microscopic embryos with born human beings, H.R. 586 and H.R. 681 have implications that pose a serious threat to infertility treatment. If microscopic fertilized eggs/embryos are deemed as human life, anything that puts and embryo at risk could be a violation of the law, even if its goal is the undeniable social good of helping someone have a baby.
It is unclear at this time precisely which assisted reproduction technology (ART) procedures would be deemed illegal because of their possible risks to an embryo, but we believe the legal uncertainties stemming from the proposed bill would make it difficult or impossible for fertility doctors to treat patients at all using ART. This law would also drastically change the practice of cryopreservation (freezing of embryos not currently needed for treatment) in ways that would drastically reduce patients' options and could even pit embryos against their own progenitors. Cancer patients rely upon embryo cryopreservation to preserve their fertility before cancer treatments.
H.R 586 and H.R. 681 would prevent couples from being able to have families. I urge you to show that you are pro-family, and vote against H.R. 586 and H.R. 681.
For more information, please contact RESOLVE: The National Infertility Association at info@resolve.org.
Ok, I know we don't usually get political on TB but WTF IS TRUMP DOING TO OUR COUNTRY. Now his administration is trying to mess with our ability to have a BABY?! This angers me to no end. I will absolutely be e-mailing and calling this in. This is disgusting. Absolutely infuriating. How did we elect this monster? /end political rant. Thanks for sharing @antoto
To be fair, I don't think Trump specifically is responsible for it, but rather a certain fundamentalist sect is taking advantage of the epic shitstorm that is our current economic/political climate to try to sneak crap like this in.
But to be clear - THIS IS NOT POLITICAL. This is beyond politics. This should be a bipartisan effort to defeat these bills!
So Republic friends, please, please, please join us. Help us!
I agree, this is not political and has nothing to do with parties, it has to do with women's rights. Human rights. It's infuriating that this would even be a possibility to pass in 2017. That is what's infuriating. Under other administration I cannot imagine this happening. Anyway, enough about that. Time to fight like hell. I'll be sharing this on social media too.
@TravelingCouple I'm totally 1000000% not defending the Trump administration, but just to clarify - these are bills that were introduced in the House (not by the president). HR 586 was introduced by Rep. Jody Hice (GA), HR 681 was introduced by Rep. Alexander Mooney (WV). There have been personhood bills, and other similar legislation, introduced in Congress before -- they usually don't make it particularly far, but the concern is that given the balance of power and current administration they may find more support/success in Congress this go-around.
TTC #1 --- BFP #1 5/15, loss at 5 weeks --- BFP #2 12/15, loss at 4+3 --- RE testing 3/16 normal, still trying for our rainbow
@antoto I. Cant. I'm legit tired of these old men trying to control my lady parts!! If I could shoot fire from my eyes I'd do it... But I guess I'll settle for emailing my rep
32 years old (both H and I) Dating 7/2008 Married 7/2014 H Type I Diabetic TTC 1/2016
12/2016
mental break from TTC-NTNP
1/10/2017 initial appt with RE (all BW results WNL) 1/17/2017
SA DX Virtual Azoo (3 sperm 0%morph 0%motility) 1/18/2017
STP tubes clear 2/1/2017 initial appt with Urologist
2/15/2017 DX H Robertsonian Translocation H is on clomid and Theralogix Supplements 6/26/17 repeat SA: 47 sperm 0% morph 13% motility 7/26/17 IVF Consult, repeat SA (4 sperm) 8/21/17 Starting IVF cycle with Donor Sperm backup 9/1/17 ER ICSI PGS: only 2 donor embryos made it to freeze 9/13/17 Started cycle for IUI with donor and clomid 9/27/17 IUI canceled for overstim October Plan IUI with donor and low dose clomid
And while there isn't much we can do for this one (unless you live in TN), if you feeling like flying off into a wild rage - read up on this bill that wants to label children born through artificial insemination "illegitimate" :
Also, if anyone lives in Tennessee (or knows anyone that lives there) HB1406/SB1153 has been introduced that would repeal TCA 68-3-306 which states, “A child born to a married woman as a result of artificial insemination, with consent of the married woman’s husband, is deemed to be the legitimate child of the husband and wife.”
HB1406 would repeal this statute and label the child illegitimate, despite the parents being married and consenting. WTF?
To be fair, I don't think Trump specifically is responsible for it, but rather a certain fundamentalist sect is taking advantage of the epic shitstorm that is our current economic/political climate to try to sneak crap like this in.
But to be clear - THIS IS NOT POLITICAL. This is beyond politics. This should be a bipartisan effort to defeat these bills!
So Republic friends, please, please, please join us. Help us!
So republican, democratic & independent friends!
LFAF February Siggy Challenge - "Favorite TV/Movie Couple"
Thank you for sharing! I just did this and it only took a couple of minutes. I was able to email my rep through his website and just copy/ paste the content of the email. Thanks again!!
History and blog link in spoiler
2016 - dx with super low ovarian reserve; failed cycle with clomid, failed IUI, 2017 - egg retrieval #1 - 3 eggs, 0 embryos appropriate for transfer; ER #2 2 eggs, 0 embryos on day 3; ER #3 1 egg 0 embryos moved to donor egg in summer 2017; 35 eggs retrieved; 19 fertilized; 9 total embryos Fresh transfer Dec 2017= BFP! baby boy born 8/22/18
May 2019 - surprise natural pregnancy ended in MC Nov 2019 FET; MC at 9 weeks May 2020 FET; BFN July 2020 FET; CP treated with methotrexate Oct 2020 BFP!
Oh My God. I am so angry right now. I just brought this to the attention of my Women's March group and my family. Thank you so much for sharing, @antoto.
I hate cold calling and I was super nervous when I made my first calls the other week, but it ended up being really easy. And if you're feeling really bold, make an appointment with your representative or his/her office to discuss this with them.
Note - I have a couple friends that work in DC, and they've said that actual snail mail letters and phone calls are way more effective than email for some reason. All you have to do is read this exact note (or modify it if that's easier for you) to the person that answers the phone (because you'll never get to actually speak with the rep). They have to record all those calls and make note of them to the rep. Email is way easier to get lost.
ETA obviously emailing is better than nothing, so if that is what's easiest for you, go for it! Any method is the best method.
Just wanted to pass that along! This is great @antoto - let's make some waves!
Note - I have a couple friends that work in DC, and they've said that actual snail mail letters and phone calls are way more effective than email for some reason. All you have to do is read this exact note (or modify it if that's easier for you) to the person that answers the phone (because you'll never get to actually speak with the rep). They have to record all those calls and make note of them to the rep. Email is way easier to get lost.
ETA obviously emailing is better than nothing, so if that is what's easiest for you, go for it! Any method is the best method.
Just wanted to pass that along! This is great @antoto - let's make some waves!
I just called in, in addition to sending the email. There was no wait - it just rang two times and someone picked up. I didn't read this letter word for word. Instead I just told my story. I told them how this bill would change my entire life - how it would hurt the economy in our area, how much it personally would hurt me if he did not stand against this bill.
Even if they don't listen to me, DAMN that felt good.
It's funny how it's the little things in life that mean the most...not where you live, or what you drive, or the price tag on your clothes... There's no dollar sign on a piece of mind, this I've come to know! *ZBB*
Done! And thank you for sharing!!! Sending to family and friends as well.
DH: 31, Me: 27 Married May 2014 TTC #1: May 2015 September 2016-December 2016: Met with RE, fertility testing, diagnosis of tubal scarring, and plan of IVF *TW in spoiler boxes*
Surprise! Unexpected BFP 2/22/17 just when we were about to start fertility treatment!
Thanks for sharing! It makes me crazy that the same people who want to remove safe access to abortions for women who want or need them also want to make it so that women who would like to have a child cannot do so. How is this not seen as contradictory? Rage.
Thanks for sharing! It makes me crazy that the same people who want to remove safe access to abortions for women who want or need them also want to make it so that women who would like to have a child cannot do so. How is this not seen as contradictory? Rage.
I may or may not be currently spamming all of my rep's "pro-life" FB posts with "Well if you want THIS WOMAN to have a baby then you better vote against these personhood bills!"
Thanks for sharing! It makes me crazy that the same people who want to remove safe access to abortions for women who want or need them also want to make it so that women who would like to have a child cannot do so. How is this not seen as contradictory? Rage.
I once asked a lawyer friend of mine why it was legal to rent a womb for 9 months (surrogacy) but not legal to rent a vagina for two minutes (prostitution). She said it was because anything that promotes families is considered ok when it comes to legislating people's bodies. But since prostitution doesn't result in children (usually), it's not allowed. Now, I'm not claiming my friend is a legal scholar so she could be oversimplifying for me, but that logic does not apply to these bills. I guess it's the unintended consequence that they didn't consider because they're so narrow-mindedly focused on stopping abortions that they don't think about other circumstances under which embryos exist.
Me: late 30s | H: early 30s TTC #1 since April 2015 RE Dx: Fibroids, surgery Jan 2016 IUI #1 and #2, Nov/Dec 2016, BFN IVF March 2017: ER - 5R/3M/3F, 1 PGS normal Polyp removed May 2017 FET May 2017 - BFP! Baby boy born 2/2/18
This is so upsetting. Even if a person believe life begins at fertilization, these types of things are done to help that life flourish in an appropriate environment and bring incredible joy through the birth of a new child to a family. Thank you for sharing, I will definitely be taking action. I can only hope these bills never get passed and the people passing them are never in the position where they need help with fertility and end up with everyone working against them. How awful.
Oh my word. . I'm in South Africa.. Sending this through to my friends in America *tw* (who by the way both have beautiful children. . Both conceived with help) *end* Ladies I sincerely hope that these do not get passed. . Absolutely terrible!
Thanks for sharing - even though I wish it didn't have to be shared in the first place. Regardless, I wrote a letter to my rep last night during a "Love Letters to Legislators" event. Needless to say, there wasn't much love for my Rep in the letter, but hopefully it at least adds one more voice to this. I can't believe this is something we have to fight for.
Good evening everyone, I'm new to the boards, lurking whenever a have a minute or two free... Sorry, I haven't yet "officially" introduced myself to the bump community... When I read this post my heart started to race, I got so angry and couldnt believe that the representatives "we the people" elected could or even would do such a thing. Boy, how my blood started to boil (and I am usually extremely calm)!! I ran my mouse over to google and got at it.... I am for protecting my right as a woman, and a woman who deeply desires to be a mother, I am also all for the protection of life- all life, young, old, healthy, sick, skinny, fat, tall, short, able'd or disabled and especially pre-born.... all are human, just like I am. All have the right to make their own way in the world, just like I have... I am 100000% for standing up for all human life and their rights. So, if there is something out there in these bills that somehow infringe on my rights as a hopeful mom, I want to see it for myself. Then, I will contact my representatives (and hopefully respectfully but firmly) voice my opinion and request others to do the same. However, after looking around google for a bit, I had to come back to the OP and reread it again, I am confused and unable to find enough information. When I looked up both of the mentioned house bills, nothing I found (other then links to this page, and a few similar fertility boards' posts) said anything about fertility treatments or what would happen to or with embryos etc. Please see this as a question, not a challenge.
Where did you come across this statement that the proposed bill is harmful to those struggling with infertility, was it listed in the bill itself or was it a commentator's interpretation of what they believe will a result if the bill continues?
Does anyone have more information, for those of you who read the two bills, did you see any wording stating ANYTHING about fertility treatments, or what is allowed to happen with embryos etc?
This bill declares that: (1) the right to life guaranteed by the Constitution is vested in each human and is a person's most fundamental right; (2) each human life begins with fertilization, cloning, or its equivalent, at which time every human has all the legal and constitutional attributes and privileges of personhood; and (3) Congress, each state, the District of Columbia, and each U.S. territory have the authority to protect all human lives.
That bold part is the part that impacts fertility treatments. You mention in your post that you couldn't find anything talking about "what is allowed to happen with embryos." But by definition, embryos are fertilized eggs. So it has a much larger impact on how IVF works (opposed to, for example IUI). In IVF, fertilization occurs in a lab, not in the woman's body.
** December BMB Siggy Challenge - Animals in Pools **
Me: 31+ H: 32 TTC Since 11/2015 #1 - MMC 6.5 weeks (2/16); #2 - MC due to cystic hygroma at 20 weeks (10/16); #3 CP (2/17); #4 - Due 12.16.17
This bill declares that: (1) the right to life guaranteed by the Constitution is vested in each human and is a person's most fundamental right; (2) each human life begins with fertilization, cloning, or its equivalent, at which time every human has all the legal and constitutional attributes and privileges of personhood; and (3) Congress, each state, the District of Columbia, and each U.S. territory have the authority to protect all human lives.
That bold part is the part that impacts fertility treatments. You mention in your post that you couldn't find anything talking about "what is allowed to happen with embryos." But by definition, embryos are fertilized eggs. So it has a much larger impact on how IVF works (opposed to, for example IUI). In IVF, fertilization occurs in a lab, not in the woman's body.
@ Tennis11785, Thank you!
It does match what I originally read on both bills (virtually the same bills, slightly different wording, same general concepts). By nature, I see things as plan for the worst, hope for the best. Though I try not to see a ghost behind every dark corner, I like to be one step ahead of problems if possible. Since I am not as familiar with IVF (as it is not a currently recommended course of treatment for us) I am hopeful that some of the veterans on here can help me learn more about this law and others that may be a detriment to my family building plans.
Forgive me for asking yet another question about this same topic... How is trying to define and protect the value of life and the rights of a pre-born child a danger to IVF? Is there a supplemental bill scheduled (or expected) that details how the definition of when life begins (these two current bills) will conflict on how humans choose to start such life?
Please note I am not trying to start a debate about abortion rights or pro-life rights. I am merely looking at it from a hopeful mom's point of view. Myself, I do not see how congress choosing to define when life starts (no matter how it is created, naturally, or through IVF) as a danger to my personal ability or desire to choose IVF as a method of growing my personal family.
Re: Very important for ladies with IF and those who want to support us! Please read!
Feel free to share elsewhere!
Ok, I know we don't usually get political on TB but WTF IS TRUMP DOING TO OUR COUNTRY. Now his administration is trying to mess with our ability to have a BABY?! This angers me to no end. I will absolutely be e-mailing and calling this in. This is disgusting. Absolutely infuriating. How did we elect this monster? /end political rant.
Thanks for sharing @antoto
But to be clear - THIS IS NOT POLITICAL. This is beyond politics. This should be a bipartisan effort to defeat these bills!
So Republic friends, please, please, please join us. Help us!
TTC #1 --- BFP #1 5/15, loss at 5 weeks --- BFP #2 12/15, loss at 4+3 --- RE testing 3/16 normal, still trying for our rainbow
I'm legit tired of these old men trying to control my lady parts!! If I could shoot fire from my eyes I'd do it... But I guess I'll settle for emailing my rep
Dating 7/2008
Married 7/2014
H Type I Diabetic
TTC 1/2016
1/10/2017 initial appt with RE (all BW results WNL)
1/17/2017 SA DX Virtual Azoo (3 sperm 0%morph 0%motility)
1/18/2017 STP tubes clear
2/1/2017 initial appt with Urologist
2/15/2017 DX H Robertsonian Translocation
H is on clomid and Theralogix Supplements
6/26/17 repeat SA: 47 sperm 0% morph 13% motility
7/26/17 IVF Consult, repeat SA (4 sperm)
8/21/17 Starting IVF cycle with Donor Sperm backup
9/1/17 ER ICSI PGS: only 2 donor embryos made it to freeze
9/13/17 Started cycle for IUI with donor and clomid
9/27/17 IUI canceled for overstim
October Plan IUI with donor and low dose clomid
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/tennessee-bill-aims-repeal-current-statute-article-1.2970540
Thanks for sharing this. I re-posted it on the April BMB.
DD #2: May 2020
Baby #3: EDD May 2023; MC October 2022
Also, if anyone lives in Tennessee (or knows anyone that lives there) HB1406/SB1153 has been introduced that would repeal TCA 68-3-306 which states, “A child born to a married woman as a result of artificial insemination, with consent of the married woman’s husband, is deemed to be the legitimate child of the husband and wife.”
HB1406 would repeal this statute and label the child illegitimate, despite the parents being married and consenting. WTF?
LFAF February Siggy Challenge - "Favorite TV/Movie Couple"
DD: 10/17/13
TTC#2 Actively: 10/14, NTNP: 01/14
Left-Sided Hydrosalpinx (cause: genetic abnormality, TREATED 11/16)
http://www.fertilityfriend.com/home/396b04
2017 - egg retrieval #1 - 3 eggs, 0 embryos appropriate for transfer; ER #2 2 eggs, 0 embryos on day 3; ER #3 1 egg 0 embryos
moved to donor egg in summer 2017; 35 eggs retrieved; 19 fertilized; 9 total embryos
Fresh transfer Dec 2017= BFP! baby boy born 8/22/18
May 2019 - surprise natural pregnancy ended in MC
Nov 2019 FET; MC at 9 weeks
May 2020 FET; BFN
July 2020 FET; CP treated with methotrexate
Oct 2020 BFP!
Take a look at my blog
Married: 04/05/15
TTC since: 02/16/16
Also for all, I strongly encourage you to call, not just email or send letters. As I understand it, calling is often more impactful because emails are easily ignored. The NY Times and others posted an article about this back in November: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/22/us/politics/heres-why-you-should-call-not-email-your-legislators.html
I hate cold calling and I was super nervous when I made my first calls the other week, but it ended up being really easy. And if you're feeling really bold, make an appointment with your representative or his/her office to discuss this with them.
Note - I have a couple friends that work in DC, and they've said that actual snail mail letters and phone calls are way more effective than email for some reason. All you have to do is read this exact note (or modify it if that's easier for you) to the person that answers the phone (because you'll never get to actually speak with the rep). They have to record all those calls and make note of them to the rep. Email is way easier to get lost.
ETA obviously emailing is better than nothing, so if that is what's easiest for you, go for it! Any method is the best method.
Just wanted to pass that along! This is great @antoto - let's make some waves!
ETA: I need more! You guys rock.
Married: 04/05/15
TTC since: 02/16/16
Even if they don't listen to me, DAMN that felt good.
*(IF) lurker*
posted about this in May 2017!
Thanks for this, just posted in Oct!
TTC 9/2016 BFP 12/9/16 EDD 8/21/17 NMC 1/8/16 at 7w6d
TTC 2/2017 BFP 3/6/17 EDD 11/17/17 DS born 11/25/17 via ECS
TTC 12/2018 BFP 6/2/19 EDD 2/12/20 NMC / BO at 7 weeks, low progesterone
TTC 7/2019 BFP 8/21/19 EDD 4/22/20 CP at 5 weeks
TTC 8/19 IUI #1 w/ Clomid + Ovidrel + progesterone BFN, IUI 2 and 3 w/ Letrozole + Ovidrel + progesterone,
IUI 4 Follistim + Ovidrel + progesterone BFP 1/9/20 EDD 9/18/20
AMA, ITP in pregnancy, vWD type II - low Factor VIII, unexplained RPL and secondary infertility
Me: 35 | DH: 38
Met: 2007
Married: 2013
BFP #1: 06/21/16 MMC: 08/04/16
BFP #2: 01/08/17 DD: 09/23/17
BFP #3: 06/10/20 EDD: 02/11/2021
Married May 2014
TTC #1: May 2015
September 2016-December 2016: Met with RE, fertility testing, diagnosis of tubal scarring, and plan of IVF
*TW in spoiler boxes*
Thanks for sharing! It makes me crazy that the same people who want to remove safe access to abortions for women who want or need them also want to make it so that women who would like to have a child cannot do so. How is this not seen as contradictory? Rage.
TTC #1 since April 2015
RE Dx: Fibroids, surgery Jan 2016
IUI #1 and #2, Nov/Dec 2016, BFN
IVF March 2017: ER - 5R/3M/3F, 1 PGS normal
Polyp removed May 2017
FET May 2017 - BFP!
Baby boy born 2/2/18
Me 38 DH 31
Married 2012
Thanks for sharing - even though I wish it didn't have to be shared in the first place. Regardless, I wrote a letter to my rep last night during a "Love Letters to Legislators" event. Needless to say, there wasn't much love for my Rep in the letter, but hopefully it at least adds one more voice to this. I can't believe this is something we have to fight for.
Dating: 12/21/2001
Married: 09/08/2012
BFP: 11/16/2016 EDD: 07/27/2017
Baby Fish born: 08/01/2017
I am for protecting my right as a woman, and a woman who deeply desires to be a mother, I am also all for the protection of life- all life, young, old, healthy, sick, skinny, fat, tall, short, able'd or disabled and especially pre-born.... all are human, just like I am. All have the right to make their own way in the world, just like I have... I am 100000% for standing up for all human life and their rights. So, if there is something out there in these bills that somehow infringe on my rights as a hopeful mom, I want to see it for myself. Then, I will contact my representatives (and hopefully respectfully but firmly) voice my opinion and request others to do the same. However, after looking around google for a bit, I had to come back to the OP and reread it again, I am confused and unable to find enough information. When I looked up both of the mentioned house bills, nothing I found (other then links to this page, and a few similar fertility boards' posts) said anything about fertility treatments or what would happen to or with embryos etc. Please see this as a question, not a challenge.
Where did you come across this statement that the proposed bill is harmful to those struggling with infertility, was it listed in the bill itself or was it a commentator's interpretation of what they believe will a result if the bill continues?
Does anyone have more information, for those of you who read the two bills, did you see any wording stating ANYTHING about fertility treatments, or what is allowed to happen with embryos etc?
This bill declares that: (1) the right to life guaranteed by the Constitution is vested in each human and is a person's most fundamental right; (2) each human life begins with fertilization, cloning, or its equivalent, at which time every human has all the legal and constitutional attributes and privileges of personhood; and (3) Congress, each state, the District of Columbia, and each U.S. territory have the authority to protect all human lives.
That bold part is the part that impacts fertility treatments. You mention in your post that you couldn't find anything talking about "what is allowed to happen with embryos." But by definition, embryos are fertilized eggs. So it has a much larger impact on how IVF works (opposed to, for example IUI). In IVF, fertilization occurs in a lab, not in the woman's body.
** December BMB Siggy Challenge - Animals in Pools **
Me: 31+ H: 32
TTC Since 11/2015
#1 - MMC 6.5 weeks (2/16); #2 - MC due to cystic hygroma at 20 weeks (10/16); #3 CP (2/17); #4 - Due 12.16.17
It does match what I originally read on both bills (virtually the same bills, slightly different wording, same general concepts). By nature, I see things as plan for the worst, hope for the best. Though I try not to see a ghost behind every dark corner, I like to be one step ahead of problems if possible. Since I am not as familiar with IVF (as it is not a currently recommended course of treatment for us) I am hopeful that some of the veterans on here can help me learn more about this law and others that may be a detriment to my family building plans.
Forgive me for asking yet another question about this same topic... How is trying to define and protect the value of life and the rights of a pre-born child a danger to IVF? Is there a supplemental bill scheduled (or expected) that details how the definition of when life begins (these two current bills) will conflict on how humans choose to start such life?
Please note I am not trying to start a debate about abortion rights or pro-life rights. I am merely looking at it from a hopeful mom's point of view. Myself, I do not see how congress choosing to define when life starts (no matter how it is created, naturally, or through IVF) as a danger to my personal ability or desire to choose IVF as a method of growing my personal family.
Thanks for the info!