NBR: MIL drama advice wanted! [UPDATE!]

erinh2005 · January 2017

Looking for advice from you ladies on how to handle MIL situation. Without going into too much detail MIL has been avoiding DH and I for at least a month and was very standoff-ish for awhile before then. Mostly throughout the time we were living together and now since we've been in our own place for a couple months. We know she's been down lately due to some pretty big issues over the last year (surgeries, financial issues, her mom passing away) so DH makes sure to invite her to do something with us at least every weekend since we've moved out. She has had an excuse or declined every invite saying something like "just have fun spending time with 'your family'" (it's always 'your family'). Which he's assuming stems from an argument back in October where she tried to tell him she wasn't happy with the way I was feeding DD and didn't think she was eating healthy enough (as in not 100% organic and sugar free 100% of the time). So he ended up getting argumentative after awhile and said something like "my wife and daughter are the most important thing to me...". Also, she hasn't been speaking to SIL who still lives with her since New Years since they apparently had a big blowup and both said hurtful things to each other. So SIL is planning on trying to have a talk/apologize before MILs 51st bday on Tues. and is trying to encourage us to do the same. I agree it's probably for the best but I'm so tired of the stress just from worrying about how the convo is gonna go. And SIL has alluded to the idea that I need to be a part of the talk since I apparently said some hurtful things to MIL a few weeks ago (no ideas?). So I'm afraid of being backed into a corner since although MIL has made some digs at me I haven't been keeping a list so I will have no examples of what I may have been reacting to at the time. On top of all this apparently she's been suicidal lately which I have no experience dealing with. How should this confrontation be handled and what do I do or say to not make it any worse and to get DDs grandma back?!

erinh2005 · January 2017

ETA: DH to MIL

erinh2005 · January 2017

ETA: DH & SIL

erinh2005 · January 2017

mspacman34 · January 2017

First of all, I am sorry you are having family troubles. This is supposed to be an exciting time, so try not to let this relationship/problems damper your happiness.

As for advice, (I may be way off base here as I only know what was given) but it sounds like she is a toxic parent. A google search and reading up on it may resonate some things for you. I think what is even more difficult than dealing with a toxic parent is dealing with a toxic parent in law because your the outsider somewhat. I think she is probably upset and still accepting that you guys do not live with her anymore and that may be contributing to some of how she is acting. There is nothing you can do when you invite her to do something and she says no. She is the one missing out and eventually she will regret that, but right now I think she just wants attention.

As far as dealing with her, a talk may be beneficial, but it may not if she has it in her mind that she has done nothing wrong and you all are the bad guys so to speak. If she is suicidal, I would say maybe a group talk with a therapist would be a good start (I don't play around with suicidal thoughts after losing a loved one to suicide - so I may be extreme on this issue).

I really want to stress that this is your family and try not to let her bring you guys down. I can't tell you how much strain my toxic parent put on my relationship until I had to decide that I wasn't going to put up with the nonsense and abuse anymore.

*Edited to add: I know some of this may seem cold and like I am trying to dismiss OP's MIL's feelings/what she has gone through. That is not my intention at all as her actions may be just from the things she has experienced recently, depression, etc. I just wanted to give a different perspective in case that may have not been considered before.

erinh2005 · January 2017

@mspacman34 Thanks so much for your prompt/thoughtful response I have not heard that term before but will definitely look into it.

mamatowildones · January 2017

I also agree with pp that if she is suicidal, professional help is important. I don't have any personal experience with a family member in that state of mind, but if everyone is aware of it, I would make that priority 1. I too have had drama with MIL where DH had to step up and say something similar to what your DH said as far as "his family" being priority. And honestly, it's something that needs to be said. I'll tell you that in our situation that was the turning point and our relationship with MIL has been sooooo much better. However, she did move halfway across the country, so that put some much needed space into our situation. As a mom of all boys I often think about this and I've noticed in observing other mother-son relationships that as a MIL it's important to understand that for DS to have a healthy and committed relationship/marriage, his wife and children really do have to come first. That said, it sounds like your DH has made an exceptional effort to include her in on your weekends. That is really wonderful. It sounds to me like this particular situation will need more than a sit down before a birthday to be reconciled. Particularly where the suicidal MIL is concerned. With her loss of her mother and then "loss" of you guys living in her home, it's put extra sadness into her life I'm sure. I wish you luck with all of this as I'm sure it's stressful not just for the family, but for you, and it adds a stress to a marriage too. I think you guys are handling it well and realize something needs to change for her health and for the family to heal together. I would strongly encourage professional help.

pshaortao · January 2017

You might as well describe my MIL to a point. Depression and signs of suicide, especially after everything she's been through, is super hard to deal with. How does one approach it? How does one make sure she's truly holding up? Professional help would be great, except it's the getting started that may be difficult. Depression runs in DH's side of the family and the affected family members seem to acknowledge that they need therapy etc, but they won't do it. It certainly won't help to have a talk with her, it may or may not help. Like mamatowildones said, I think you are all handling it very well and are very considerate of her while she may not feel like the same. Maybe seek out for reasons why she feels a certain way and just have a talk about it, and to really make a point to not get defensive. And most importantly, make sure she does not feel attacked at all.

SKZW · January 2017

When I first read your post, I figured it was mostly personality conflicts and resentment about your moving out. Seeing the texts about her birthday, though, seems like that's the more immediate issue that she's dealing with. It might be an attention-seeking thing, like @mspacman34 said, but it might be a root of her current issues/withdrawal. Birthdays are hard. She has all these issues, surgeries, mom passing, lots of things, and I think, for you, that can seem overwhelming in trying to deal with/manage/confront. You obviously want her to be a part of your life and are missing seeing her, and that's a larger issue that can be figured out in the weeks to come. I think all of those issues are too much to take on at this point, so maybe just try to focus on the birthday piece of it. (1) It seems like you kids have set a deadline for yourself of birthday/this weekend to chat with her, so focus on the birthday as a means of opening communication. (2) Using her text as a jumping off point, respond to those requests specifically: the no cake, the no presents. Ask: what would you like to do instead? What kind of gathering do you envision? Can we spend time with you? Can we take you out? (playground, lunch, shopping...) Do you want to stay in? (movie night, cook together, order in dinner, or lunch...) Say: we hear you on the no cake and no presents, and will respect your wishes. What can we do instead? Really try to glean some ideas from her. If she brushes it off and says "oh nothing, I don't need anything," then respond with "we want you to be happy, how can we all make that happen," as a team working together, and if she still doesn't have any ideas, and you've given her lots of opportunities to answer, then at that point, you let it slide. Meaning, don't let it worry you. She's an adult (even if in a fragile state) and if you've reached out, you've done your best, and try not to beat yourselves up over it. If she makes it clear she wants to be alone, and you've really tried, then at that point you need to respect it. You aren't responsible for her happiness, so don't feel guilt over it. (3) Tangent: I wonder if part of this conversation could be conducted over texts... probably over the phone or in person would be best, truly... but... having that "real" record of your reaching out and her responses (written down) might be helpful to refer to, at some future point, for whatever reason. That way it's not a "you said this" and "no I didn't" or "you never include me" and "yes, we offered!" and no one believes anybody. Just a rambling thought there... (4) Acknowledge that birthdays are hard. Tell her you're sorry that it's the first one without her mom there to share in it. Show that you understand. Make it known that, even if she feels alone, to not be alone; that she still has all of you guys, and the granddaughter, especially. Emphasize that you want to spend the time with her. See what her response is, and go from there. And it's okay if it's just a 2-hour gathering/low-key celebration, you know, it doesn't have to be an all-day thing. (5) Therapy is a good idea. Especially for grieving/losing someone/having life changes. That could be (maybe, for now) an issue for another day, meaning, don't take it all on, all at once, you know what I mean? I'd stick to the b-day part first, since it's the most immediate topic to address. (6) Regarding the SIL: Try not to let her issues with her mom become your issues. This is tough, I know. But if they've had some arguments, and they're living together and not speaking, really, you can only do so much there to help/assist/mediate/figure things out. If SIL alluded to your presumed horrible conversation, that you don't even remember, then take it with a grain of salt. They obviously need to have a talk, and you don't necessarily have to be a part of it. It's tough, I get it, to keep things separate, but try. (7) Referencing your original post: If the conversation degrades and you feel backed into a corner, like you anticipated, really try to turn it back around to her, in a not-blaming way, to re-frame the conversation back to "we really do care about you" and what steps can we all take today to work through this misunderstanding together. You can acknowledge that hurtful things were both said and received by all sides, and you can discuss that for a few minutes, but then get it back on track to focus on everyone apologizing, forgiving, and moving forward. It's not easy to have these kinds of talks. You can almost psych yourself out even just anticipating the talk in the first place, but try to keep that from happening. As long as you express your concerns, show you care, indicate you want things to be different (as far as spending time together), and try to get a sense from her as to what exactly her needs/wants/preferences are (for b-day and beyond) (at a reasonable level), then you'll be in really good shape and have some direction in how to move ahead in the relationship. I realize I've rambled (A TON) here, and I (sort of?) apologize. Hopefully there's a kernel of something in there that resonates with you and helps you figure out how to handle things. Really, best of luck.

erinh2005 · January 2017

@SKZW I really appreciate you taking the time to respond! (I always notice when you 'like' my posts even when not many others do lol). You're right that she's one of those people that will continue to say "no, nothing for me thanks" because we feel like we go through this every bday/holiday and then we just end up going all out because that's what she would do for all of us. I think that's a good tool tho like others have said just to not get defensive since I'm not the one who feels I have the issue and just keep it about figuring out what's going on with her. Thanks to you and the others for the positive encouragement!

kns1988 · January 2017

Everyone gave really good and compassionate advice. I agree that encouraging her to go to a professional is a priority if she's suicidal, but it's really difficult to get someone to go to a therapist. I've been trying with a close friend of mine. I'm going to offer to help her schedule an appointment to see if getting over that first hurdle will help.

Addressing the birthday part of this, if this were a normal relationship and she asked that you not buy her a gift, I would respect her wishes not to get her anything. That's coming from my own perspective as a minimalist - I do tell people to please not buy me gifts, and they sometimes have a hard time understanding it. It sounds like your MIL is doing it more out of manipulation, but even so, I wouldn't buy her anything. It would be refusing to play the game. My family can be passive aggressive, and over the years I've developed the strategy of believing that they mean what they say and then behaving accordingly.

erinh2005 · January 2017

UPDATE: tonight ended up being the big talk. It was even tougher than I expected. The way it came about was SIL came over to talk to DH and I saying she had just finally talked to her mom earlier and felt like it was productive and said her mom had even admitted some fault. For example, using the term OCD in describing her thinking about keeping her house clean whereas in the past she would justify her views on everything and never admit extreme ways of thinking. SIL said they had worked through some issues and encouraged DH and I to stop by and have a similar convo with MIL. Before we headed over she filled me in on complaints MIL had about me pointing to times I snapped at her while we were living together and apparently complained about the dirty floor instead of just cleaning it and things like that. (I don't doubt that I came off as rude if responding to MILs comments but there were never times where I was outright rude or coming at her with anger without feeling provoked.) So basically I knew I needed to apologize for those times since it was wrong to make her feel disrespected. And that's how we started the convo once we got to MILs. I apologized generally for being rude or making hurtful comments. And explained although it's not okay that I did that I wasn't doing it with any negative intent and we were all living on top of each other which wasn't ideal for any of us and I was really sick in the first trimester so wasn't feeling well on top of everything. She responded by being relatively open about instances that were "burning her up" that I had said or did. She had some very outlandish examples like a time when I apparently recently complained to SIL about the apartment MIL put DH and I up in when we were 18. I told her that must have been a misunderstanding because I thought I was telling her a funny memory where my cat was scared of an earthworm that had somehow gotten inside. And SIL shared with MIL how shocked she was at my complaining and being ungrateful when MIL was the one who was paying the rent. Another huge issue MIL has with me is how I was caring for my daughter while I was living with her. I was so sick during the first tri that I couldn't cook or clean or do anything I would normally do so DD was having a lot of snacks and quick meals instead of home cooked meals. So MIL used her example saying even if she was bleeding out and just had open heart surgery she would still cook for her kids before letting them eat cereal for dinner. So that was majorly hurtful to me. And then the hurtful comments just kept coming. Like saying my two year old is "obsessed with food". And should only have organic health foods. So I shared my position of also intensely caring about my daughter's health and not just healthy eating but doing research on healthy ways of thinking about food and speaking with actual people about their eating habits growing up vs. now so I have the best chance of her having an overall healthy view on food/eating. (DD eats better than all of my friends/family's kids but not as 100% healthy as the kids MIL has nannied for in LA). She also made comments about the way I eat (not as healthy as I should) but that is easier for me to brush off than the comments about my kid. So although I let her share her opinions openly I respectfully disagreed with most of this. She also said she took the times when I would snap at her as my true colors and that I had been fooling her for the first 10 years of knowing me because we had very little conflict until now. Her other major complaint was that I was ungrateful for having her amazing son because I put pressure on him to get us into our own apartment instead of making it work in her place longer so he could save more money and be less stressed in general. (He tells me he would rather be $3000 more in debt if we could go back and decide not to live with MIL). And about 6 months ago I was sharing with her that in making the decision to move from the Midwest to CA that I didn't know I'd be moving every two years and I always had seen myself as settling down and being in a house with my family so it was something I was coming to terms with. She apparently took that as a shot to her son and I was being unreasonable and putting all this pressure on him to buy me a house even though we can't afford it and I don't know just how good I have it. And when I get to be 50 I'll look back and think what the hell was I thinking spending time worrying about stupid stuff like that and not appreciating what I have. And besides we spend our money on making sure I have the apartment the way I want and going out to eat instead of saving for a house. So I said something like I've always lived my life without regret and my husband and I for 13 years of being together have always made a plan and put a lot of research into every decision we've ever made so if we want to buy a house in five years and find that we didn't save enough or make the right choices and aren't able to do so that we will learn from it. I also stole her words as more of a joke saying "there are much worse and demanding wives out there". And she said that's what she would try to tell herself when she was overcome with her thoughts about me. I got teary-eyed and emotional a few times over the course of the convo but DH said I did a good job of defending myself when I needed to. After DH and I left we decided we would continue to work on the relationship with his family but we both just need to watch what we say so nothing can be misconstrued in the future. And as far as the hurtful comments I just need to try not to worry about it and know I'm doing the best I can and not let her get to me. There was a lot more to it but Im emotionally exhausted and just needed to vent so thank you to anyone who reads this!

BabyMC517 · January 2017

I'm sorry you've had to deal will all of this. It's a tough situation to be put in, but it sounds like you handled it very well. You may not have an easy road ahead working on the relationships and brushing comments off, but it sounds like you have a great support in your husband, which is amazing! Wishing you all the best and this is a great place to vent!

SKZW · January 2017

I second everything @BabyMC517 said. It sounds like you did a good job allowing her to speak her mind (even if she used the opportunity to get a few hurtful jabs in). I'm sorry you have to deal with that constant drama in your life! Hang in there and keep being strong in the midst of all the cray-cray

kat81 · January 2017

Oh wow, @erinh2005 that sounds totally insane!

Your MIL definitely has mental health problems and is acting depressed. Any and all family should encourage her to see a therapist and you guys can continue to do what you are you doing to reach out and suggest activities to do together. You guys are great and should continue to support her because she is absolutely having a hard time. Clearly a huge part of this is that she feels as though with your family moving out she is "losing" family. DH's comment about prioritizing you guys over her is part of that. She also doesn't want to lose control (e.g. meddling with your daughter's diet.) So, she needs mental health support for sure.

All of that said, there are places you and your DH need to draw the line. 1) DH was right -- his family is you and DD and unborn LO now. She is and forever will be his mom, but his #1 priority and loyalty is his current family unit: you and the children. 2) MIL has absolutely no right to get in your business about parenting, especially in the way that you have described. You and DH are the parents. DD is also her descendant so if there was something troubling going on it wouldn't be bad for her to weigh in (BRIEFLY), but from what you've described this is ridiculous. 3) Relatedly, MIL has no right to get on your case about what you eat, either. 4) DH needs to take the lead in standing up to her and drawing boundaries. He needs to be able to say things like, "no, mom, it was my decision primarily for us to get our own place, this is not erinh2005's fault." He also needs to jump in and say that he is making food decisions for DD as well. This is not just the mom's job to feed the children. Sounds like you did a great job in the conversation, but yeah, DH has to have your back.

And I don't know how old your MIL is (probably not that old if she only just lost her mother), but these mental health things definitely get worse with age. In my parents we are starting to have to deal with a lot of extra anxiety and irritability. It's not as extreme as what you're describing, but there are hints of some of this in my own parents sometimes.

RainyDays86 · January 2017

I agree with everything @kat81. Her behavior is not normal and I am so sorry you have to deal with it. It sounds like your DH is on your side but I do agree that you need to draw the line and he needs to take on the primary role of defending her now. I hope she can get some help and that you are able to have some boundaries in the relationship going forward.

erinh2005 · January 2017

Thanks so much @kat81 it's tough since I do want to write everything off as psychotic but I'm still trying to walk the line for as long as I can still see hope to have a "normal" relationship. But yeah that's what DH and I were kind of discussing as far as keeping her out of the loop on some things so she can't make assumptions I guess. While trying to show her we still care/ keep her involved with DD.

kat81 · January 2017

erinh2005 said:

Thanks so much @kat81 it's tough since I do want to write everything off as psychotic but I'm still trying to walk the line for as long as I can still see hope to have a "normal" relationship. But yeah that's what DH and I were kind of discussing as far as keeping her out of the loop on some things so she can't make assumptions I guess. While trying to show her we still care/ keep her involved with DD.

Yes, definitely keep her out of the loop on some things like parenting decisions (except for when she is there to see them.) This has helped us manage grandparents at times, though again, I don't have a situation that is anything like yours! Otherwise she really does need professional help. The tricky thing will be getting her to get it.

kns1988 · January 2017

@erinh2005, I just want to say that now that she's had a chance to air all her grievances (and take quite a few jabs at you from the sound of it), she shouldn't get to do that again. Don't let being around her turn into an erinh punching bag session. I also would be very careful about SIL because she sounds like she's feeding into the drama. Sorry you're dealing with this!

kat81 · January 2017

kns1988 said:

@erinh2005, I just want to say that now that she's had a chance to air all her grievances (and take quite a few jabs at you from the sound of it), she shouldn't get to do that again. Don't let being around her turn into an erinh punching bag session. I also would be very careful about SIL because she sounds like she's feeding into the drama. Sorry you're dealing with this!

Good point about SIL. I wonder, though, if she is never seeing the whole picture. I think this is another place DH could shed some light -- SIL needs to be on your (yours and DH) side.

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