Denial and Trust

MariaBend25 · December 2016

So we had our follow up today after a second round of tests. Repeat HSG showed my tubes are indeed open and must have spasmed the first time. DH counts came back a little better but still low. First round was 7M, 21% mobility, 0% morphology. Second was 13M, 38, and 0, respectively. The doctor of course says based on that with my PCOS and hormone issues that IVF is probably the only way to go but since I wont do IVF that he would think IUI could be a possibility. It is about $1k per cycle plus drug costs. He doesn't want to treat my PCOS and get me ovulating to enhance natural ability to try. DH and I said we will discuss it, especially since my work is going to take me away for a few months soon so we can't start anyways.
Get to the car, and DH says no, absolutely not, he doesn't trust the numbers because the doctor is "just in it for money". He wants an independent semen analysis, but would still refute the numbers if they come back abnormal or low. He loops around to us "not even really trying yet" (see my previous thread), and he wants to "try" until I am 30. I am not yet 27! And then, after further discussion of why I think treatment is necessary and we should count the last 3 years off BC as trying, he gets upset and says no, absolutely no treatment. He doesn't want kids anymore, either he gets me pregnant au natural or we don't have kids. The doctor said with IUI there is maybe 10% chance per cycle, but DH took that as 10% chance every month without treatment.
I don't know what to do. When it was just me and my PCOS DH was all for even doing IVF. Come semen results he doesn't trust the doctor or test and doesn't want any treatment. Not sure how to address this one. I tried explaining that 3 more years of "really trying" is wasting 3 years but he won't budge unless we try for a sufficient amount of time. Even then I don't know if he would be ok seeking treatment. I think a lot of the reaction is just a basic knee jerk reaction and he is a tremendously proud individual. But logic and science don't seem to be getting anywhere. He also refuses to tell anyone about it or let me tell anyone, unless it is one close female friend who won't spill the beans, yet we can't discuss it either because there is no point when we need to "try more".

Any ideas on how to address this? Anyone ever just accept they will be childless, and if so how do you cope with that? I feel so alone and can't see myself ever becoming a mom.

AlohaKumu · December 2016

@MariaBend25 I don't have very specific advice, since we just learned about our 0 sperm diagnosis recently, but I can share that the diagnosis hit my DH hard. I know he feels "responsible" for the infertility, even though I try to reassure him that it's no one's fault and we will continue to get more information. It sounds like perhaps your DH might be feeling a similar way and feels safer denying the results than acknowledging that there is an issue.

I know if I were in your situation, I would find it quite difficult to wait three more years, even if there is a tiny chance of natural pregnancy. To speak to your husband's concerns, while there are unscrupulous medical professionals out there, these treatments are expensive and doctors don't get a huge cut of the money. (My dad is a surgeon, and I know how much the medical profits have gone down in the past 10 years to practically nothing.)

Do you think he would be open to seeing a therapist so the two of you could discuss this together? If he's not, maybe talking to a therapist would be helpful just for you, since that individual wouldn't be able to "spill the beans" and might be able to give you discussion tools to have future talks with your DH. My heart goes out to both of you, since there are no easy answers for us as we try to figure out our options.

JESSABER0414 · December 2016

@MariaBend25 phew, I feel for you. I hate that you're having a hard time getting on the same page. I agree with talking to someone, I have done much better putting things into perspective since talking to my infertility experienced therapist. My DH refused to go with me but now I go once a month and it's helpful.
Does your DH have problems with health/medical information in general? Like not taking the vitamins or BP meds or going to the dentist? Could be a general denial issues and that's going to take a lot of patience. I'm sorry he thinks more trying for 3 years is acceptable, because we know how frustrating it'll be on tour part each month.
Let us know what you need for support.

MariaBend25 · December 2016

@AlohaKumu and @JESSABER0414 I think maybe talking to someone would help, because there is that little monthly reminder of failure to deal with and I tend to get depressed during that time even before these issues came up. However, I am in the military and fear going to mental health because it can stay on the record. DH is fine medically etc although tends to not take care to schedule regular dental appointments! Perhaps the typical guy where everything is fine. That aside, I grew up in a medical family and know to trust the doctor. I have also seen first hand how little medical professionals make from expensive procedures because of overhead costs and how little insurance ever pays out. I know our doctor wouldn't be profiting much, if anything I would hurt his success statistic by only going as far as IUI.
If anything, I know my DH to be very proud and whatever is perceivably threatening his manhood, even if unreasonable, can cause his defenses to go up.

AlohaKumu · December 2016

@MariaBend25 Can you use Military OneSource? They set you up with 12 sessions that don't get recorded and your chain of command doesn't get notified. My husband is active duty, too, so that's what we are using right now (for a variety of reasons) and we found a great therapist who we both love. At first he was hesitant to go, but when he found out that it was completely confidential, he said he would give it a try.

MariaBend25 · December 2016

Oh that's an excellent idea. I forgot about that service!

hibiscus118 · December 2016

@MariaBend25 I don't really have much advice but wanted to say that you aren't alone. My DH took it very hard when he was diagnosed, he still blames himself and us having to go though all this. I just reassure him that we are a "team" and it's not his fault.

I don'tknow what to say about continuing to try for 3 years. It's odd he was for IVF before but not now. It's the same process. Maybe once he has some time to take it all in he will be more onboard to do the IUI? It's hard on men with this diagnosis. My husband has been open with people saying it's him and not me, but it took some time to sink in first. Have you thought about seeing a reproductive urologist as well? They might be able to find a reason for the low SA.

liljoy-2 · December 2016

You are not alone, @MariaBend25 My DH also had SA at least 3 times, all came back low and he still thinks the doctor misinformed me saying he had a problem, or that he was too tired when he had the tests, or other excuses, etc. Whenever I remind him to take his vitamins or to not drink, he gets mad saying his count is not the issue, but my endometriosis. Even if I agree, I still ask him to take his vitamins and take care, for me, but I get nowhere. He's for IVF though more than I am...

He even refuses to BD more than once during FW because he says his count is low the second time anyway and that my chances are zero...I'm struggling every month because I wanted to give it our best naturally before starting IVF again..

vssbrm · December 2016

***lurking*** tw****

I do not have a ton of advice, but have experience w/ a proud military husband, and infertility for a long time, and IVF. I highly recommend talking to counselor/therapist who specializes in infertility. It was an amazing help, even if it is just you that goes. It will help you to plan for every scenario and to get through the immediate.

In regards to DH, when ever I referred to what WE were going through I used the pronouns, "we, ours, us", never "I, me, mine, you, yours". I think much like being a team in the army, it was easier for DH to get through everything knowing that I was committed to it being our issue and not once referenced anything as being bc of him. He has very low counts for everything bc of a varicocele, possibly sustained while deployed. We are still unsure if my celiacs disease has anything to do with IF, but I included it every time.

IVF is a hard thing to come to terms w/. For a very long time I said I would not do it, I would rather adopt, but DH did not want to adopt and wanted to do IVF... so we did, eventually. I do not regret it, mainly bc we took quite a few smaller steps in that direction prior to commuting. I do have to say, it took us a few years to get through diagnosis, come to terms with things, try a few things, come to terms with more... this is big stuff. I understand the feeling of not wanting to waste time, but if giving DH a little more time to cope will get you the end result you are looking for, and happily get you there, I recommend doing so. Maybe not a full three years, but a compromise.

NandJ4Ever · December 2016

I have pcos too although on the mild side so I probably could conceive without IVF and with low tech options instead but my DH his Sperm is low everything and hasn't worked naturally for years and years and since I am almost 35 we don't have anymore time to fool around so we are now saving to go right to IVF. Anyways, he feels VERY guilty that we have to do IVF and can't have success with low tech options mainly because of him. It took him years to agree to do IVF. And during those years many times he said he didn't want to have kids anymore. I think he had to work through his own emotions first to feel ready to admit defeat and do it. And of course men don't like to always share with us what they are thinking or feeling. I'm pretty sure men are grieving the same things we are but in their own way. we grieve the loss of not being able to conceive naturally, we grieve the thought of having to spend a lot of money, we grieve the thought that it might not even work and than what. Men go through all of that too. He is scared too. Men hate failing. It's easier not to try than to try and fail. Trust me he is going though a lot of emotions right now just like you. He probably feels embarrassed of his SA and guilty he cant give you a child naturally.

Your DH sounds a lot like how mine was for a few years. Unfortunately it did take years but he got better and better as time went on. Im not saying it will take your DH years but he probably needs some time to work through all of his thoughts and emotions. A diagnosis is always really hard to swallow in the beggining. Chances are after he has processed this that he will calm down and come around. Try not to focus on his SA and instead make IVF about your PCOS. His Sperm results will matter very little in IVF becUse you can just do icsi so that actually gives him less to stress about in regard to his SA results. Tell him that you want the highest chance of success because of your PCOS and that because IVF is expensive that you want to do it when you are as young as possible because your chance of success will decrease with age.
Oh yeah, and talk to him about all of this only when he's in a good mood. That helps a lot.

mandasd · December 2016

I'm also a proud military (retired) wife. We had been trying for over a year when we started testing and it took hubby almost a year to come around to the idea of doing IVF.

We also have Tricare - prime - and nothing is covered if I go to a private fertility clinic. However, the military offers a couple infertility clinics where most treatment is covered. There is one in Washington DC and one in San Diego (that's were I am at). Not sure if there are more, maybe Texas. You have to go to your pcp and get a referral to the clinic, then wait several months for an appointment. After they do testing, they will recommend a treatment plan. IUIs are covered 100%. IVF costs under $4k for my clinic which is only the fee for the outside lab to fertilize the eggs. All meds are covered. It's really an amazing program! So if you can get into one of these clinics, then you take the financial aspect out of it. You will still have to consider your religious beliefs with it but that's not something I factor in, we are not religious.

My husband and I are older and better equipped to go through this process, emotionally and financially. Regardless, it's still very difficult and can strain your relationship. But as long as you try and move together through it together as best you can. Good luck!

Polythene Pam · December 2016

**TW Previous child**

our issue is on me but my husband didn't react to even going to the doctor well as we got pregnant easily with my daughter. Got mad, embarrassed that he couldn't get me pregnant again, mad at me for not being ok with what we've already got. It took a good friend of his, completely randomly, saying they did IVF and it was male infertility. Even though I have many close friends who had struggled, hearing it from a guy..... he asked me to schedule an appt with the specialist that month. So I don't know if you know any couples personally but guys seem to shut down... pride, stubborn, ego, who knows.

we have another good friend struggling (troubles for both the guy and girl) and we set up a dinner in hopes that my husband opens up to this guy, who has apparently shut down on talking about treatments. I think men just don't talk but I hope your husband opens up. It's been our worst year of marriage but after we finally seemed out treatment it's like a weight has been lifted. Hugs to you

MariaBend25 · December 2016

So the other night my husband seemed to come around and say we can do IUI. I think if he approaches it as compassion or something to do for me, rather than something perhaps caused by him, he is more amenable to treatment. We will see where this leads to now.

@mandasand thank you for the insight. Do you know if you have to repeat the tests at the AF clinics? I would hate to do it all again. The IUI at our current clinic is about 800 per cycle which is definitely affordable for us. I unfortunately go TDY a lot and if my husband decides to go ahead with IUI we won't be able to attempt until end of March or April depending on my cycle. I am then afraid to do it because I just found I am deploying in April 2018, which would have to be put off if I were pregnant or for one year after birth. That would mean then deploying with an infant/toddler at home. So then the question becomes do I do this now and put off military duties until later, or approach the next two years doing the natural approach as my husband wants (which won't get anywhere with our IF)...get through the deployment and spend the next two years here trying IUI? If I wait, I still know IUI is very likely to be unsuccessful. This is very frustrating and emotional!

@PolythenePam you are spot on. I think guys take things harder because of how society makes them need to be manly and protect their egos. Of course this is stereotyping but I am seeing now how many other women are dealing with the same thing.

mandasd · December 2016

You wont have to redo all the tests, if you get an appointment at the military infertility clinic, bring your test results with you. They'll still do more bloodwork and anything your civilian doc didn't do but it's all covered 100%. I paid $2k in testing at a private clinic before I went to Navy Medical Clinic San Diego.

I also want to mention there is a "healthy fertility lifestyle" which can dramatically have a positive effect on your husband's semen. It regenerates so often that simple, healthy changes can show a huge improvement in his quality. No smoking, drinking, taking supplements, can all help. Just google it. My husband had sever morphology and just by making some healthy changes his sperm became normal. Guys are really weird about their sperm - they go in serious denial when numbers come back bad and act like big babies. The moment my doc told him his sperm looked good, he puffed up and he's still gloating about it.

Deployments can be difficult so if you can try and do an IUI soon that would be good. How in the heck do you already know you're deploying in 2018? My husband would only know a couple months in advance! He deployed 15 times in his 21 years active duty...he was always in the desert!

liljoy-2 · December 2016

@MariaBend25 I wouldn't wait, if you can, prioritize getting pregnant as soon as possible. Time is of the essence, two years is a very long time for the egg quality, unfortunately (in case you are 35 or above).

Edit: I see you are young, so in your case two years probably don't matter.

MariaBend25 · December 2016

@mandasand. We are definitely making some changes and looking into supplements, I think even the small changes made for the second test resulted in the better numbers. I already make everything from scratch but am cutting out sugar and making smaller servings.

I know I will deploy because I got assigned a new tempo band and my boss informed me that because I have not yet deployed I most likely will get pulled. He (and I) agreed that if I volunteer for a deployment in my band I can pick something in either a better location or with a beneficial job and I should be able to pick as of this February/March. Otherwise, it will be wait and see what I get last minute and that will most likely pull something in Afghanistan. I am in a weird career field where our actual jobs are in random locations so when we get pulled for Afghanistan we end up with odd leftover jobs like guarding convoys ect, which we have no background or training for and it doesn't help gain any experience in our career field.

I salute your husband, 15 deployments at the height of the war is remarkable and I am glad he had your support through it all! I have heard so many stories of constant deployments and guys who got extended while still oversees, I do not envy them.

mandasd · January 2017

Thank you @MariaBend25 my hubby is a combat war veteran which has some challenges but he's adjusted to civilian life very well, he's in law school and will graduate soon. He plans to be a criminal defense attorney and also wants to work in veterans advocacy.

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