Vaccinations

krob · August 2016

Does anyone have any info that isn't incredibly biased either way about immunizations/vaccinations?

I am not anti-shots at all. But I do think it's a bit crazy how aggressively the number of shots required had grown in the last 20-30 years.

I want to properly educate myself but everything I seem to find online is super biased one way or the other, as this has become a touchy subject as of late.

Thanks in advance for any info. Personal testimony welcome as well!

scottipino · August 2016

I am a biased source(MD with a public health degree studying epidemiology and vaccines), but regardless I think this is a well written article discussing common questions and current theories on vaccines. It does have a slant towards debunking MMR and autism though. https://thelogicofscience.com

Gingersnap · August 2016

:::grabs some popcorn:::

Babymakes5! · August 2016

I really think its hard to find vax articles without a "slant". But this is mostly because all the anti vaccine claims (causes autism, high levels of mercury, etc.) Are sufficiently debunked.

pickle-chips · August 2016

Speaking purely to the point of the number of vaccinations, the number has increased because they have continued to develop new and refine existing vaccines. For example, the chicken pox vaccine didn't exist when I was a kid. I had to hang out with a neighbour friend who had it to make sure I got it as a young kid. Just to clarify, if there had been a vaccine, my parents would have gone vaccine route instead.

Here is a history of vaccines from the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. It talks about the development of vaccines beginning in the '40s and the recommended schedule now. Again, this is just speaking to the growing number of vaccines.

Edit: I can't mobile bump early in the morning. Forgot the link.

fourPsinapod · August 2016

Gingersnap said:

:::grabs some popcorn:::

I was just thinking "and this is where it begins.."

Xstatic3333 · August 2016

To find a truly "unbiased" article about this topic, you'd need to look at individual peer reviewed articles from scientific journals. Like @BabyMakes5! said, scientific research has proven the safety and efficacy of these vaccines, so most information put out by government public health agencies, NGOs, doctors, and reputable publications will support these findings.

I urge you to read critically. Do your sources provide links or citations to peer reviewed research articles or government agencies? Do case studies that you read prove a causal mechanism as opposed to just correlation? A baby being diagnosed with autism after receiving an MMR booster, for example, does not show that the vaccine caused the diagnosis. The age at which autism spectrum disorders are sometimes first identified correlates with the usual timing of this vaccine and no causal mechanism has been discovered.

Be ware of the "it just feels like too much" argument and the "it's not natural argument". Find the research and numbers about the risk of a given vaccine and the risk of the illness it causes and make your own decision, but go to the source, not to mom blogs or conspiracy theorists. Google Scholar is a good search engine for finding peer reviewed research. Most full articles cost money to access, but you can read the abstract (summary) for free.

MrsDrKirkpatrick · August 2016

The only thing I can think of is to ask for the insert from the box of the actual vaccine. You could cross check that with any double blind control trials, but those can be hard to access in their raw form if you don't have access to a research library. Although I would keep in mind that the insert comes from the pharm company (biased) and the control trials are subject to publication biased (also biased). It's going to be extremely hard to find articles that are unbiased because everyone has an agenda, and a major media cooperation to answer to. One thing I did was went through the entire schedule, and researched each vaccine individually as far as what does it prevent, how does one get this particular diseases, and what are the health concerns if one does contract that particular disease. Most people are all or nothing on vaccines, but selective vaccinating isn't out of the question either if you decide you want some, but not all. Honestly you're going to be better off doing your own raw research, than relying on an article to provide you with an unbiased opinion. Hope that helps, good luck!

Gingersnap · August 2016

fourPsinapod said:

Gingersnap said:

:::grabs some popcorn:::

I was just thinking "and this is where it begins.."

This is one of the few topics I just sit back and enjoy.

hudson1029 · August 2016

I grew up with a girl who's mother choice not to vaccinate her children. They were mostly vegan, grew their own food, etc. The mother was a midwife. Later in life she decided to get her nursing degree at Columbia and started her own lactation consulting practice. After learning the science behind vaccinations she forced both her aunt children to get vaccinated and apologized to them for not doing it sooner.

Gretchypoo · August 2016

Gingersnap said:

fourPsinapod said:

Gingersnap said:

:::grabs some popcorn:::

I was just thinking "and this is where it begins.."

This is one of the few topics I just sit back and enjoy.

pass the popcorn, please!

krob · August 2016

Thanks for thoughtful responses. I am not anti-vaccine and plan on doing the recommended vaccinations with baby.

I asked because I have zero knowledge about shots outside of my own 35 years ago and all the vaccination hoopla of recent years. I have a "friend" who posts a lot of anti-vac stuff on FB and it got me thinking.

I pretty mind try and question most things because I don't trust big business in this country. A lot of things are maybe good for us, but a lot of things are good for companies (i.e. profit). So as a result I always want to make an informed decision of my own.

I appreciate the links and info and will definitely do my own further research as well as talk to my doctor.

Gingersnap · August 2016

Well that ended mildly.

scottipino · August 2016

I would love to debunk the anti-vaccine theory that pediatricians make money on fully vaccinating kids. I think the meme currently circulating says thousands of dollars for fully vaccinating a set number of kids. Totally false. Peds make next to nothing off of vaccines and at times take a loss. My clinic has to jump thru hoops to provide vaccines for underserved kids via the state. That theory rubs me raw especially since Peds are one of the lowest paid specialties in medicine.

krob · August 2016

@scottipino I have never seen the meme you are referring to. And it never crossed my mind to think doctors were profiting. I have such high respect and regard for the medical profession.

My comment was geared more toward Big Pharma and the insurance industry and any other big business that have super powerful lobbyists. Those are the people I don't trust.

As a similar example all of the lies we have been fed for decades by the food industry due to lobbyist and government influence. It doesn't mean that I don't still eat some things that are bad for me, but at least now I have the personal knowledge to make that decision vs. being sold a bill of goods.

cinderin · August 2016

don't confuse dogma with scientific facts.

good advice in a number of areas.

Patience7150 · August 2016

@krob I had a similar discussion about this with H the other day. There has been a ton of...statements (information, opinions, beliefs) flying around the internet, it's hard to know what's true. Not having kids and not being in tune with it, I was curious on how to even start deciphering it. I am by no means anti-vax, but don't always trust someone blindly telling me I need something. I appreciate you having the courage to start a thread on a touchy subject, and appreciate everyone's responses.

expandcontract · August 2016

Just dropped into see if anyone's head has been chewed off, yet. No? Carry on.

scottipino · August 2016

@krob it took me a while but I finally found the picture! I do have a great summary table of each vaccine, what the illness is like, and what the source of the illness is. Happy to take a picture and send it to you if it will help.

expandcontract · August 2016

@scottipino where did you find this graphic? I find it very hard to believe that BCBS would EVER pay that amount for a bonus. I've worked with plenty of insurance companies (including BCBS) and have never heard of a $40000 bonus. Even if it were for a very large practice, the biggest bonus I've seen comes out to about $200- $300 per physician.

Gingersnap · August 2016

AfKash said:

@scottipino where did you find this graphic? I find it very hard to believe that BCBS would EVER pay that amount for a bonus. I've worked with plenty of insurance companies (including BCBS) and have never heard of a $40000 bonus. Even if it were for a very large practice, the biggest bonus I've seen comes out to about $200- $300 per physician.

That was her point, that they DONT make this type of money from vaccinations

expandcontract · August 2016

@Gingersnap and @scottipino Ohhhh okay. Thank goodness!

cjs260 · August 2016

Whenever you are looking for research for any medical issue, pubmed.com is the place to go. A ton of peer-reviewed journal articles are out there with open sourcing, and if there is an article you would like to read but cannot access, let me know, as I may have access to it (I am a graduate student). Also, I will gladly interpret anything you find, if it would at all help. These articles have to undergo VAST scrutiny by other scientists in the field assessing the methods, interpretations, statistics and much more to even be received for publication by the journal.

When looking at such peer-reviewed scientific articles, authors (the scientists who did the research) will list what research institution they come from, whether it be industry (big pharma), government, or academia. At the very end of the paper, they will also list their funding source (who is paying them to do the research). Authors are also required to disclose if they have any "conflicts of interest" or if they will make any money off the research from another outlet, as in, if they are a shareholder in the company they are doing research for. This may or may not sway your interpretations of the study.

One thing I will say is please, PLEASE don't take a news media's coverage of ANY scientific topic at face value without reading the article it is based on. These articles are NOT written by scientists, but by journalist who 90% of the time, completely miss the entire point of the study. (See: the scare-tatctic "Never swaddle your baby because of SIDS risks" articles a few months ago - not in ANY way at all what they study concluded... not even what the study was looking at). And especially never trust any written piece that does not give references to peer-reviewed journals. People can make up anything they want to and write a blog on it, and somehow, somewhere some person will find it and use it as a source.

Again, I will gladly help with anyone wanting to look at peer-reviewed articles if necessary. Just shoot me a PM.

krob · August 2016

@scottipino that meme is ridiculous. I know too many not rich doctors to believe that. LOL

I would love to see your summary table. Information is power!!!!

scottipino · August 2016

I think this is a good summary of what is available, where you contract the infection from, and what are complications of the illness.

ARM19792013 · August 2016

I'm a pediatrician and I agree with this. Pediatricians sometimes lose money when they give vaccines.

As far as all the vaccines that are given today. All of the vaccines that are on today's recommended vaccination schedule in total have less antigens than all the vaccinations that we received as children. They are better, cleaner, and more efficient vaccines.

momousekee · August 2016

There's a Rotavirus vaccine again! Hallelujah!

When my first was born, rotashield had been off the market for several years and there wasn't anything new yet. The whole household had several strains of rotavirus and there's nothing quite as miserable as exploding from both ends, while nursing to keep your baby from getting dehydrated as she does the same.

cinderin · August 2016

momousekee said:

There's a Rotavirus vaccine again! Hallelujah!

When my first was born, rotashield had been off the market for several years and there wasn't anything new yet. The whole household had several strains of rotavirus and there's nothing quite as miserable as exploding from both ends, while nursing to keep your baby from getting dehydrated as she does the same.

My son received this vaccine. My husband and I both got this illness at the same time and my son was 100% fine. I don't know what we would have done if there were three of us with it. tall about a life saver!!!

poetryandoceans · August 2016

*sees thread* Thinks "Oh, we're doing this are we?"

*clicks, reads thread*

Image: https://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxpb27m3pn1rn95k2o1_500.jpg

I love this board.

lstep713 · August 2016

I always look at it this way- the smarter we get, the more we know to protect ourselves. Like seat belts, 30 years ago no one used them. Now, your car practically won't start if it's not buckled. We learned and adapted. Vaccines are the same, they come up with new ways to cure diseases - chicken pox, hpv, etc.- so we probably are getting more than 20-30 years ago. If there is a way to eliminate or even lessen the effects of a horrible disease from happening, why not do it. (And I hate the one person that brings up the kid down the street that has some freakish reaction. I could be killed by my seat belt, but the risk of it helping far outweighs the risk of not using it.)

HeatSparks · August 2016

Assuming it's the same in other states, you can go to a clinic and get vaccines for kids for free.

Vaccinations

Re: Vaccinations

Choose Another Board

Search Boards