Also @DobbysSock the hardest part with teaching my boys these lessons has been to try and find the balance between protect/respect women and treat women equally. I don't want my boys to baby women and treat them as a weaker sex but obviously I want them to respect women and their choices/bodies. I guess what I am trying to say is I am trying to balance the old timey chivalry ideals and the newer feminist ideals since some of those ideals contradict each other if that makes sense... Gah I hope this comes out right.
ETA I'm hoping my respect EVERYONE, don't be afraid to stand up to someone who is being disrespectful, be empathetic, and be thoughtful approach does this.
Wife. Boy mom x6. Expecting #7. Wannabe homesteader. , 💙💙💙💙💙💙
@jennyleigh16 I get the sentiment but I disagree. I feel it's much easier to teach a boy these lessons than it would be to teach a girl how to protect herself. It's much easier to control and take responsibility for YOUR actions than it is to be prepared for someone else's.
ETA I'm not saying it's not a great responsibility, they won't screw up occasionally hopefully not horribly, and that girls shouldn't be prepared.
Wife. Boy mom x6. Expecting #7. Wannabe homesteader. , 💙💙💙💙💙💙
@jennyleigh16 explaining consent, no means no, respecting privacy and boundaries of everyone including themselves. We talk about the different types of bullying, how it's not OK, and what to do if you see it happening or if it happens to them. How it's OK to stand up to friends who aren't making good choices. We talk about empathy and how words are powerful so think before you speak. Making good choices that you can be proud of. How gender stereotypes are untrue and can be hurtful. And in general just being respectful to everyone. They are young so we try to keep it pretty basic.
I saw a post somewhere (Facebook maybe?) I'm not sure if it was a true story or not but it was about a dad at the park whose son was playing with a girl his age, kind of tumbling around rough housing a bit. The dad kept checking in saying "Remember, if she's not having fun, you stop".
I thought it was such a simple lesson to start early with both boys and girls - and not just saying "if he/she says no, you stop" but to actually make it about body language and non-verbal cues as well as a verbal "no". I've started doing that with DD, if she gets a little rough with me I'll talk about how it's my body and if I don't like something she's not allowed to do it to my body. If she keeps going, I get up off the floor or put her down and move my body away a bit, while still talking to/playing with her. We model it with her, too. If she asks us to stop tickling we stop immediately, if she wines or pulls away from us we stop, and if she doesn't want to hug/kiss someone we tell her that's ok.
I actually am a little more scared at the idea of possibly having to teach these lessons to a boy than I am with DD. I don't know why but it seems a lot more complicated.
Because it seems easier to teach a girl how to protect herself than it is to teach a boy what is and isn't appropriate behaviour. Easier, not right, mind you.
@jennyleigh16 yea, that makes sense. A pretty sad reality.
@kdm06c I meant it more as a reference to society's tendency towards "teach women how not to get raped" rather than "teach men not to rape". I'm just being cynical, I actually agree with you in that everyone should be responsible for their own actions, and it should be easier to teach, but in reality there are clearly people out there who never learned that lesson.
ETA to my train of thought. ETA and again because grammar is important.
I like that a lot @DobbysSock! We have talked about watching body language a little bit but I really like the "Remember, if she's not having fun, you stop". Thanks for sharing! I'm totally stealing it lol.
@kdm06c yes steal it! I really loved it when I read it, especially with a dad giving that message to his son, and indirectly to the little girl he was playing with. Obviously it's important for both parents to teach and reinforce this lesson, but I think it's a powerful message for a child to receive from a respected male adult
Also @DobbysSock the hardest part with teaching my boys these lessons has been to try and find the balance between protect/respect women and treat women equally. I don't want my boys to baby women and treat them as a weaker sex but obviously I want them to respect women and their choices/bodies. I guess what I am trying to say is I am trying to balance the old timey chivalry ideals and the newer feminist ideals since some of those ideals contradict each other if that makes sense... Gah I hope this comes out right.
ETA I'm hoping my respect EVERYONE, don't be afraid to stand up to someone who is being disrespectful, be empathetic, and be thoughtful approach does this.
Makes total sense! I also don't want to demonize men to my kids. I want to prepare and teach my daughter to be strong without feeling like she needs to fight with/against men or like all men have the potential to harm or take advantage of her. I want her to be safe, but also be able to trust. And any potential son, I don't want him to think (or think that I think) that all men have an innate tendency towards wanting to harm women. I hadn't even thought of the balance between being protective/respectful while recognizing a woman's strength and ability to make decisions and take care of herself. I think DH will be an awesome partner in this - as he is strong but sensitive and does have feminist ideals (mostly since meeting me, haha) so I think he'll be a great model on how to be a protector/provider while also being an equal partner.
@jennyleigh16 gotcha! And yes, society's views on this are extremely ridiculous and skewed. I hate how they basically depict males as freaking animals with no control over themselves. Eff that noise. I hope my boys have more respect for themselves to accept that crap.
Yes @DobbysSock. Such a simple notion with a huge impact! Love it!
Wife. Boy mom x6. Expecting #7. Wannabe homesteader. , 💙💙💙💙💙💙
I am teaching my daughters to breathe fire. I want them strong, capable independent women. If they find a partner that loves them for who they are and encourages them for growth, AWESOME! If not, they can still have a wonderful life. They do not need a man*(physically, financially, emotionally ...) I hope to teach them to be safe and aware.
My son..... I am struggling with this. I am a feminist, to a degree. However, we live in the South. My son needs to be a 'gentleman ', know the common and expect social practice (open doors, push in chairs, walk to outside, ect...), be strong (strong men are expected here) and be able to handle a strong woman and not be trampled. Yet to respect their own bodies as well as others.
All my children will be taught basic car work, such as changing tires, jumping a car, checking fluids. Basical housework, cleaning, ironing, cooking, sowing.
Dh and I have a great strong marriage. We balance each other out. We both cook, clean and parent. He is not intimidated that I have more education than him (right now that is changing soon), nor make more. He is still the 'man' of the house. He treats me with respect and love, and I do the same. We are always doing something affectionate, where my children will see. This is on purpose too.
I hope we are not going to screw our kids up to much.
Finding out we are having a son has led to so many conversations on raising him to be respectful of himself and others. I am a feminist and my husband shares the same values, what I have found interesting/awesome is since finding out he's a boy is just how serious my husband is taking his feminist leanings. I now come home to a lecture or rant on something a young man has said or done, am being emailed articles about sexism in relation to sports and media, etc. I think he's going to be a wonderful role model.
We both have such a focus on making sure our boy understands that no one has the right to touch him or make him uncomfortable and he doesn't have the right to do that to anyone else- but also he has to stand up for what's wrong. We are all new at this so I really hope we don't screw up the poor little guy, it's just so very important.
I I do really love some of the stories and examples that have been shared
@Weville, as a fellow feminist and (soon-to-be) mama of a boy, I've been trying to formulate how to best respond to this discussion. You hit the nail on the head totally! Thanks for putting what I couldn't seem to say in words.
Also, as a PP said, it doesn't matter whether our babies are boys or girls; we all need to be concerned with this because it matters. And yes, we're going to mess up and make mistakes, but I'd rather do the right thing messily than the wrong thing perfectly, if that makes sense.
@PugsandKisses I hear you on raising feminist men in the south. But I look at my brothers, who are kind, sensitive, strong, amazing men that go above and beyond to take care of the people in their lives, and I know it's possible. I actually think I've caught more flack being an outspoken feminist (and everything else) in the South than my brothers, because society tends to value a man's opinion over a woman's.
It's also possible that no matter what you do your son won't fit that mold, and I think that should be celebrated too. The more southerners we raise that embrace the traditions but eschew the gendered/sexist/bigoted good ol' boy trap, the better the South will be for it.
All that said mostly because I'm breathing fire over NC's horrid state legislature and their new anti-LGBTQ law. Sorry if I stepped on your toes here, but I'm all BURN IT ALL WE MUST RETAKE OUR STATE.
I think this is such an interesting topic. My husband and I share the same values as many of you but a recent conversation with him was so eye opening. I read the book The Gift of Fear (awesome by the way- read it!) and was talking about how I constantly am aware of my surroundings. Who is near my car in the Target parking lot, looking behind me as I walk to the mailbox, who I will or won't get into an elevator with, keys out and ready in a parking garage, etc. I am not terrified or on guard of being attacked, just hyperaware of my surroundings because of how I was raised and I know how the world can operate. He was astonished by this, and said the only time he has ever felt that way is walking home alone from a bar in college at 2am. Never in his daily life. I don't want to generalize, but I think many of us as women have such things engrained in us and it definitely makes me think about how to best teach my son.
H and I were raised in Mississippi now living in Texas. Finding the balance and figuring out how to instill it in my boys hasn't necessarily been easy. I'm just hoping they get it.
Wife. Boy mom x6. Expecting #7. Wannabe homesteader. , 💙💙💙💙💙💙
H and I were raised in Mississippi now living in Texas. Finding the balance and figuring out how to instill it in my boys hasn't necessarily been easy. I'm just hoping they get it.
i'm a FTM so we'll see how this goes in real life, but I do think that first and foremost our sons will get it from watching how their father treats their mother, and other females as well. Actual instruction will be important... but I think learned behavior is the strongest. (some other PPs may have mentioned this).
I say this because my husband is amazing... and when we would have discussions around where did he learn how to be so considerate and respectful towards me he just shrugs and says, "I watched my father treat my mother that way, so I guess that's just the way I knew I was supposed to do things."
@PugsandKisses I got to the part about your husband being 'the man of the house' and instantly felt a little bad for my husband. Outwardly, he is absolutely the man of the house, and since he is the main breadwinner (90 percent of the income), I play the role of domestic goddess and handle almost all of the housework. He can't budget to save his life, however, so I handle all of the bills. If you asked our dogs who is the alpha, that would be me. Those dogs have all the love for my husband, but they respect me. I really do my best to puff up my husband's ego and make him feel like he is running the show, but the dogs give away the truth of the house dynamic every time.
@kellz14 I absolutely agree that H being a good example and showing them is the best way to teach them. It's a bit tricky in our household though because H travels all over for work constantly. He is amazing when he is home and I'm hoping that's enough of an example for my boys, but he's not home much so I feel the pressure is on me a little more to teach them.
Wife. Boy mom x6. Expecting #7. Wannabe homesteader. , 💙💙💙💙💙💙
@PugsandKisses I got to the part about your husband being 'the man of the house' and instantly felt a little bad for my husband. Outwardly, he is absolutely the man of the house, and since he is the main breadwinner (90 percent of the income), I play the role of domestic goddess and handle almost all of the housework. He can't budget to save his life, however, so I handle all of the bills. If you asked our dogs who is the alpha, that would be me. Those dogs have all the love for my husband, but they respect me. I really do my best to puff up my husband's ego and make him feel like he is running the show, but the dogs give away the truth of the house dynamic every time.
See, that is where you are wrong. In the wolf world, there is not an Alpha but an Alpha pair. Your maybe be the alpha female, but he would be the alpha male. In many times, the alpha female is more 'aggressive ' and the male is more 'chill'. Just wait till some one pisses him off or tries to hurt his female/pups. It's the same in many large cats too. The males tend to let the female be 'in charge ' for the daily stuff, but the Lion is still King for a reason.
Also, I do the bills too. Dh can, it's just he likes my system more. He has access to it 24 hours a day.
@PugsandKisses I got to the part about your husband being 'the man of the house' and instantly felt a little bad for my husband. Outwardly, he is absolutely the man of the house, and since he is the main breadwinner (90 percent of the income), I play the role of domestic goddess and handle almost all of the housework. He can't budget to save his life, however, so I handle all of the bills. If you asked our dogs who is the alpha, that would be me. Those dogs have all the love for my husband, but they respect me. I really do my best to puff up my husband's ego and make him feel like he is running the show, but the dogs give away the truth of the house dynamic every time.
See, that is where you are wrong. In the wolf world, there is not an Alpha but an Alpha pair. Your maybe be the alpha female, but he would be the alpha male. In many times, the alpha female is more 'aggressive ' and the male is more 'chill'. Just wait till some one pisses him off or tries to hurt his female/pups. It's the same in many large cats too. The males tend to let the female be 'in charge ' for the daily stuff, but the Lion is still King for a reason.
Also, I do the bills too. Dh can, it's just he likes my system more. He has access to it 24 hours a day.
I'm showing this to my husband later and using it whenever one of our friends teases him about the dogs 'knowing who is really the boss'.
Although I make more it is super close, we are pretty much a 50/50 household. So neither of us is the domestic goddess and we really need one. I do love to cook, it's the cleaning I need my dogs to figure out how do. They are lazy and are getting a free ride. I think it should be their responsibility. They also think I'm the boss in all things but being quiet, then they listen to my husband best.
Re: UO Thursday
ETA I'm hoping my respect EVERYONE, don't be afraid to stand up to someone who is being disrespectful, be empathetic, and be thoughtful approach does this.
, 💙💙💙💙💙💙
ETA I'm not saying it's not a great responsibility, they won't screw up occasionally hopefully not horribly, and that girls shouldn't be prepared.
, 💙💙💙💙💙💙
ETA to my train of thought.
ETA and again because grammar is important.
@kdm06c yes steal it! I really loved it when I read it, especially with a dad giving that message to his son, and indirectly to the little girl he was playing with. Obviously it's important for both parents to teach and reinforce this lesson, but I think it's a powerful message for a child to receive from a respected male adult
Makes total sense! I also don't want to demonize men to my kids. I want to prepare and teach my daughter to be strong without feeling like she needs to fight with/against men or like all men have the potential to harm or take advantage of her. I want her to be safe, but also be able to trust. And any potential son, I don't want him to think (or think that I think) that all men have an innate tendency towards wanting to harm women. I hadn't even thought of the balance between being protective/respectful while recognizing a woman's strength and ability to make decisions and take care of herself. I think DH will be an awesome partner in this - as he is strong but sensitive and does have feminist ideals (mostly since meeting me, haha) so I think he'll be a great model on how to be a protector/provider while also being an equal partner.
Yes @DobbysSock. Such a simple notion with a huge impact! Love it!
, 💙💙💙💙💙💙
and @DobbysSock I love that idea and promoting paying attention to body language, not just words. I'll definitely be stealing it when the time comes.
My son..... I am struggling with this. I am a feminist, to a degree. However, we live in the South. My son needs to be a 'gentleman ', know the common and expect social practice (open doors, push in chairs, walk to outside, ect...), be strong (strong men are expected here) and be able to handle a strong woman and not be trampled. Yet to respect their own bodies as well as others.
All my children will be taught basic car work, such as changing tires, jumping a car, checking fluids. Basical housework, cleaning, ironing, cooking, sowing.
Dh and I have a great strong marriage. We balance each other out. We both cook, clean and parent. He is not intimidated that I have more education than him (right now that is changing soon), nor make more. He is still the 'man' of the house. He treats me with respect and love, and I do the same. We are always doing something affectionate, where my children will see. This is on purpose too.
I hope we are not going to screw our kids up to much.
We both have such a focus on making sure our boy understands that no one has the right to touch him or make him uncomfortable and he doesn't have the right to do that to anyone else- but also he has to stand up for what's wrong. We are all new at this so I really hope we don't screw up the poor little guy, it's just so very important.
I I do really love some of the stories and examples that have been shared
Also, as a PP said, it doesn't matter whether our babies are boys or girls; we all need to be concerned with this because it matters. And yes, we're going to mess up and make mistakes, but I'd rather do the right thing messily than the wrong thing perfectly, if that makes sense.
It's also possible that no matter what you do your son won't fit that mold, and I think that should be celebrated too. The more southerners we raise that embrace the traditions but eschew the gendered/sexist/bigoted good ol' boy trap, the better the South will be for it.
All that said mostly because I'm breathing fire over NC's horrid state legislature and their new anti-LGBTQ law. Sorry if I stepped on your toes here, but I'm all BURN IT ALL WE MUST RETAKE OUR STATE.
, 💙💙💙💙💙💙
I say this because my husband is amazing... and when we would have discussions around where did he learn how to be so considerate and respectful towards me he just shrugs and says, "I watched my father treat my mother that way, so I guess that's just the way I knew I was supposed to do things."
, 💙💙💙💙💙💙
Also, I do the bills too. Dh can, it's just he likes my system more. He has access to it 24 hours a day.