I can't stand Bernie Sanders. I don't get why everyone is flocking to the polls to vote for him. 90% of the stuff he says he will do will never happen. Free everything, for everyone!! Total BS.
It's not really free though. He's going to pay for it by taxing everyone like crazy. He wants to make 4 tax brackets, and the lowest tax rate is still higher than every other candidate's (republicans included) highest rate. He wants to tax millionaires 52%.
But in one way or another, won't what your "getting" in return for your tax money somewhat balance out vs what you wouldn't be paying out of pocket or in copay? (just thinking in terms of health care here). Again, full disclosure - I am VERY limited in my knowledge of how US insurance works....
Yes. Exactly like this. Fair warning, I am a fan of Bernie (not everything, but this part for sure). Everyone yells OMGSH IT'S NOT FREEEEEEE STUPID. And I'm all, yeah. I understand how things work in that they need to be paid for. Thanks for the lesson. He has proposals to obtain the money largely from businesses. I don't care enough to argue it out, but yes. His plan actually reduces out of pocket costs when you subtract out what's being paid for premiums and add in the raised taxes (for the middle class, at least).
OK! Good to know. I find often-times as soon as the idea of "higher taxes" is uttered there is this knee jerk 'NO, god no, not higher TAXES' reaction and the benefits of said higher taxes aren't given adequate consideration. I think Canada is considered to be a fairly 'highly-taxed' nation but we are also afforded universal health care, decent unemployment insurance and great maternity/family leave allowances, so to me its a good trade off. And if you're low income, you're certainly not impacted in the same way as a family who makes more money than you. My province just released it's budget yesterday and they've introduced free post-secondary tuition for students in a household that makes under 50K. I think that's great.
Alright, here goes UO: Hillary should be in jail for mishandling classified information. No one is above the law. Bernie is a socialist and growing up in socialism, it just doesn't work. Free is not free.
Other politicians who have used personal email accounts while in office to conduct state business:
Jeb Bush Chris Christie Bobby Jindal George W Bush and a lot more. It's pretty common.
I can't stand Bernie Sanders. I don't get why everyone is flocking to the polls to vote for him. 90% of the stuff he says he will do will never happen. Free everything, for everyone!! Total BS.
It's not really free though. He's going to pay for it by taxing everyone like crazy. He wants to make 4 tax brackets, and the lowest tax rate is still higher than every other candidate's (republicans included) highest rate. He wants to tax millionaires 52%.
But in one way or another, won't what your "getting" in return for your tax money somewhat balance out vs what you wouldn't be paying out of pocket or in copay? (just thinking in terms of health care here). Again, full disclosure - I am VERY limited in my knowledge of how US insurance works....
Yes. Exactly like this. Fair warning, I am a fan of Bernie (not everything, but this part for sure). Everyone yells OMGSH IT'S NOT FREEEEEEE STUPID. And I'm all, yeah. I understand how things work in that they need to be paid for. Thanks for the lesson. He has proposals to obtain the money largely from businesses. I don't care enough to argue it out, but yes. His plan actually reduces out of pocket costs when you subtract out what's being paid for premiums and add in the raised taxes (for the middle class, at least).
OK! Good to know. I find often-times as soon as the idea of "higher taxes" is uttered there is this knee jerk 'NO, god no, not higher TAXES' reaction and the benefits of said higher taxes aren't given adequate consideration. I think Canada is considered to be a fairly 'highly-taxed' nation but we are also afforded universal health care, decent unemployment insurance and great maternity/family leave allowances, so to me its a good trade off. And if you're low income, you're certainly not impacted in the same way as a family who makes more money than you. My province just released it's budget yesterday and they've introduced free post-secondary tuition for students in a household that makes under 50K. I think that's great.
Yes! Canada sounds great! I actually would be negatively affected. I am insanely lucky and pay no premiums. Zero. My company pays them all. But I am still in favor because I am not an asshole and believe every human deserves affordable basic medical care.
Alright, here goes UO: Hillary should be in jail for mishandling classified information. No one is above the law. Bernie is a socialist and growing up in socialism, it just doesn't work. Free is not free.
Other politicians who have used personal email accounts while in office to conduct state business:
Jeb Bush Chris Christie Bobby Jindal George W Bush and a lot more. It's pretty common.
Alright, here goes UO: Hillary should be in jail for mishandling classified information. No one is above the law. Bernie is a socialist and growing up in socialism, it just doesn't work. Free is not free.
Other politicians who have used personal email accounts while in office to conduct state business:
Jeb Bush Chris Christie Bobby Jindal George W Bush and a lot more. It's pretty common.
State business is not typically classified.
The business of the president probably is though.
Yeah, clinton had classified emails on her unsecured home server and it's very illegal to handle that information unless you are on a government secured network. It's not just a matter of email accounts. It's where they information is being accessed.
DS 9/2/13 was a BFP from an IUI! Triplets due 6/29/16 also from an IUI!
I can't stand Bernie Sanders. I don't get why everyone is flocking to the polls to vote for him. 90% of the stuff he says he will do will never happen. Free everything, for everyone!! Total BS.
It's not really free though. He's going to pay for it by taxing everyone like crazy. He wants to make 4 tax brackets, and the lowest tax rate is still higher than every other candidate's (republicans included) highest rate. He wants to tax millionaires 52%.
But in one way or another, won't what your "getting" in return for your tax money somewhat balance out vs what you wouldn't be paying out of pocket or in copay? (just thinking in terms of health care here). Again, full disclosure - I am VERY limited in my knowledge of how US insurance works....
Yes. Exactly like this. Fair warning, I am a fan of Bernie (not everything, but this part for sure). Everyone yells OMGSH IT'S NOT FREEEEEEE STUPID. And I'm all, yeah. I understand how things work in that they need to be paid for. Thanks for the lesson. He has proposals to obtain the money largely from businesses. I don't care enough to argue it out, but yes. His plan actually reduces out of pocket costs when you subtract out what's being paid for premiums and add in the raised taxes (for the middle class, at least).
But the money has to come from somewhere. If businesses are having increased expenses to pay for Bernie's stuff then they will have to increase revenue (cost to people like us) or cut other expenses (which could mean jobs).
DS 9/2/13 was a BFP from an IUI! Triplets due 6/29/16 also from an IUI!
I can't stand Bernie Sanders. I don't get why everyone is flocking to the polls to vote for him. 90% of the stuff he says he will do will never happen. Free everything, for everyone!! Total BS.
It's not really free though. He's going to pay for it by taxing everyone like crazy. He wants to make 4 tax brackets, and the lowest tax rate is still higher than every other candidate's (republicans included) highest rate. He wants to tax millionaires 52%.
But in one way or another, won't what your "getting" in return for your tax money somewhat balance out vs what you wouldn't be paying out of pocket or in copay? (just thinking in terms of health care here). Again, full disclosure - I am VERY limited in my knowledge of how US insurance works....
Yes. Exactly like this. Fair warning, I am a fan of Bernie (not everything, but this part for sure). Everyone yells OMGSH IT'S NOT FREEEEEEE STUPID. And I'm all, yeah. I understand how things work in that they need to be paid for. Thanks for the lesson. He has proposals to obtain the money largely from businesses. I don't care enough to argue it out, but yes. His plan actually reduces out of pocket costs when you subtract out what's being paid for premiums and add in the raised taxes (for the middle class, at least).
But the money has to come from somewhere. If businesses are having increased expenses to pay for Bernie's stuff then they will have to increase revenue (cost to people like us) or cut other expenses (which could mean jobs).
Won't a lot of his revenue be coming from the huge corporations who will pay more taxes? (as they should be?)
I can't stand Bernie Sanders. I don't get why everyone is flocking to the polls to vote for him. 90% of the stuff he says he will do will never happen. Free everything, for everyone!! Total BS.
It's not really free though. He's going to pay for it by taxing everyone like crazy. He wants to make 4 tax brackets, and the lowest tax rate is still higher than every other candidate's (republicans included) highest rate. He wants to tax millionaires 52%.
But in one way or another, won't what your "getting" in return for your tax money somewhat balance out vs what you wouldn't be paying out of pocket or in copay? (just thinking in terms of health care here). Again, full disclosure - I am VERY limited in my knowledge of how US insurance works....
Yes. Exactly like this. Fair warning, I am a fan of Bernie (not everything, but this part for sure). Everyone yells OMGSH IT'S NOT FREEEEEEE STUPID. And I'm all, yeah. I understand how things work in that they need to be paid for. Thanks for the lesson. He has proposals to obtain the money largely from businesses. I don't care enough to argue it out, but yes. His plan actually reduces out of pocket costs when you subtract out what's being paid for premiums and add in the raised taxes (for the middle class, at least).
But the money has to come from somewhere. If businesses are having increased expenses to pay for Bernie's stuff then they will have to increase revenue (cost to people like us) or cut other expenses (which could mean jobs).
Yep, basically, everyone will pay the price for all the free stuff. Less jobs, increase in the costs of goods, and higher taxes for individuals. Sounds fun, where do I sign up?
I can't stand Bernie Sanders. I don't get why everyone is flocking to the polls to vote for him. 90% of the stuff he says he will do will never happen. Free everything, for everyone!! Total BS.
It's not really free though. He's going to pay for it by taxing everyone like crazy. He wants to make 4 tax brackets, and the lowest tax rate is still higher than every other candidate's (republicans included) highest rate. He wants to tax millionaires 52%.
But in one way or another, won't what your "getting" in return for your tax money somewhat balance out vs what you wouldn't be paying out of pocket or in copay? (just thinking in terms of health care here). Again, full disclosure - I am VERY limited in my knowledge of how US insurance works....
Yes. Exactly like this. Fair warning, I am a fan of Bernie (not everything, but this part for sure). Everyone yells OMGSH IT'S NOT FREEEEEEE STUPID. And I'm all, yeah. I understand how things work in that they need to be paid for. Thanks for the lesson. He has proposals to obtain the money largely from businesses. I don't care enough to argue it out, but yes. His plan actually reduces out of pocket costs when you subtract out what's being paid for premiums and add in the raised taxes (for the middle class, at least).
But the money has to come from somewhere. If businesses are having increased expenses to pay for Bernie's stuff then they will have to increase revenue (cost to people like us) or cut other expenses (which could mean jobs).
Yep, basically, everyone will pay the price for all the free stuff. Less jobs, increase in the costs of goods, and higher taxes for individuals. Sounds fun, where do I sign up?
I guess I just don't understand why you think this will have such a negative impact? So many other countries operate in a similar fashion. And not everyone "pays the price" for all the "free" stuff". A family making a household income of 50K a year isn't going to "pay the price" in the same way that a family making $300K a year is, are they? Wouldn't the most impacted parties be the wealthiest businesses and people? (actual questions). And what about the benefits you'd be entitled to? Aren't they a good thing for families in your country?
I can't stand Bernie Sanders. I don't get why everyone is flocking to the polls to vote for him. 90% of the stuff he says he will do will never happen. Free everything, for everyone!! Total BS.
It's not really free though. He's going to pay for it by taxing everyone like crazy. He wants to make 4 tax brackets, and the lowest tax rate is still higher than every other candidate's (republicans included) highest rate. He wants to tax millionaires 52%.
But in one way or another, won't what your "getting" in return for your tax money somewhat balance out vs what you wouldn't be paying out of pocket or in copay? (just thinking in terms of health care here). Again, full disclosure - I am VERY limited in my knowledge of how US insurance works....
Yes. Exactly like this. Fair warning, I am a fan of Bernie (not everything, but this part for sure). Everyone yells OMGSH IT'S NOT FREEEEEEE STUPID. And I'm all, yeah. I understand how things work in that they need to be paid for. Thanks for the lesson. He has proposals to obtain the money largely from businesses. I don't care enough to argue it out, but yes. His plan actually reduces out of pocket costs when you subtract out what's being paid for premiums and add in the raised taxes (for the middle class, at least).
But the money has to come from somewhere. If businesses are having increased expenses to pay for Bernie's stuff then they will have to increase revenue (cost to people like us) or cut other expenses (which could mean jobs).
Yep, basically, everyone will pay the price for all the free stuff. Less jobs, increase in the costs of goods, and higher taxes for individuals. Sounds fun, where do I sign up?
I guess I just don't understand why you think this will have such a negative impact? So many other countries operate in a similar fashion. And not everyone "pays the price" for all the "free" stuff". A family making a household income of 50K a year isn't going to "pay the price" in the same way that a family making $300K a year is, are they? Wouldn't the most impacted parties be the wealthiest businesses and people? (actual questions). And what about the benefits you'd be entitled to? Aren't they a good thing for families in your country?
It depends on how the tax structure works out. There are so many kinds of taxes that impact people in different ways. Income tax impacts wealthier while sales tax impacts poorer people generally. Property taxes impact homeowners, etc. It would be a huge change to our economy that isn't that stable to begin with (see recent recession).
And not everyone wants "free stuff." There are many arguments that the quality of socialist programs aren't as great.
DS 9/2/13 was a BFP from an IUI! Triplets due 6/29/16 also from an IUI!
This convo might be getting TOO political but I think we need to address waste in performance audits of government programs before increasing taxes. And phase out/limit programs like social security.
DS 9/2/13 was a BFP from an IUI! Triplets due 6/29/16 also from an IUI!
What Hillary did is quantitatively and qualitatively different from others. Look at what happened to Petraeus for a far lower offense. If my national security working friends were even suspected for 10 percent of what she did, they would lose clearances and jobs. Too bad it's not more of an issue outside of a fairly smal community.
On taxes, works nice in theory but it reality rich people, who by the way pay majority of taxes in this country, just move away. Detroit is a good example of Bernie's schemes at work.
I can't stand Bernie Sanders. I don't get why everyone is flocking to the polls to vote for him. 90% of the stuff he says he will do will never happen. Free everything, for everyone!! Total BS.
It's not really free though. He's going to pay for it by taxing everyone like crazy. He wants to make 4 tax brackets, and the lowest tax rate is still higher than every other candidate's (republicans included) highest rate. He wants to tax millionaires 52%.
But in one way or another, won't what your "getting" in return for your tax money somewhat balance out vs what you wouldn't be paying out of pocket or in copay? (just thinking in terms of health care here). Again, full disclosure - I am VERY limited in my knowledge of how US insurance works....
Yes. Exactly like this. Fair warning, I am a fan of Bernie (not everything, but this part for sure). Everyone yells OMGSH IT'S NOT FREEEEEEE STUPID. And I'm all, yeah. I understand how things work in that they need to be paid for. Thanks for the lesson. He has proposals to obtain the money largely from businesses. I don't care enough to argue it out, but yes. His plan actually reduces out of pocket costs when you subtract out what's being paid for premiums and add in the raised taxes (for the middle class, at least).
But the money has to come from somewhere. If businesses are having increased expenses to pay for Bernie's stuff then they will have to increase revenue (cost to people like us) or cut other expenses (which could mean jobs).
Yep, basically, everyone will pay the price for all the free stuff. Less jobs, increase in the costs of goods, and higher taxes for individuals. Sounds fun, where do I sign up?
I guess I just don't understand why you think this will have such a negative impact? So many other countries operate in a similar fashion. And not everyone "pays the price" for all the "free" stuff". A family making a household income of 50K a year isn't going to "pay the price" in the same way that a family making $300K a year is, are they? Wouldn't the most impacted parties be the wealthiest businesses and people? (actual questions). And what about the benefits you'd be entitled to? Aren't they a good thing for families in your country?
The biggest issue many americans have with a socialist system is actually the basic concept of the system, that you work and someone else benefits even if they didn't work as hard as you did.
Also, to just jump in here, one of the bigger issues with Sanders is that he assumes that the economic demographics of the US will stay the same if he imposes higher taxes and there's a decent chance that that won't happen. Right before FB went public, one of the founders renounced his US citizenship to avoid some of the taxes on the profits. Many of the millionaires/billionaires in the US exploit loopholes to keep a hold on more of their money. If the loop holes are closed and they are taxed out to whazoo, then what's stopping them all from leaving here and going elsewhere, somewhere where their money isn't going to be taken from them to be used as the government sees fit. The same could be true of many companies that are based here because it's a more hospitable environment to businesses than other countries with higher corporate taxes.
A large number of americans also are very big on limited government (see the tea party faction of the GOP). They want to make their money, bring it home and do what they want with it without anyone else telling them what they do/don't need and how to use their money. Like @huskerfanz said, not everyone necessarily wants all the free stuff that the government might be offering so why should they be forced to pay for it if they won't use it to begin with (Hobby Lobby and their birth control stuff plays into this a bit, they didn't want to pay for birth control coverage in their employees insurance since it was against the religious beliefs of the owners. The premise was why should they have to pay for it if they didn't believe it should be used at all?).
Lol. I feel like I'm teetering on a line I shouldn't be crossing as I don't even live there.... :-) *slowly backs away*
IMO, the only way you really learn the pros/cons of a particular argument is by discussion of it, I'm really loving where this thread has gone, but I'm a weirdo who likes discussing stuff like this. It drives H crazy since we're both on the same political spectrum so there isn't really any "discussion" unless one of us, usually me, starts to play devils advocate.
I tried that Isidewith.com quiz for kicks. It was fun!
I'm late to this thread today so sorry for having multiple back to back posts guys but this is fun.
I find it really funny that when I did that isidewith quiz, it came out with my top match by a significant margin being Bloomberg, an independent who ISN'T EVEN RUNNING (yet). Kind of perfectly sums up my views on this whole election, all the candidates who are running suck and have crap ideas that don't match with mine at all.
I tried that Isidewith.com quiz for kicks. It was fun!
I'm late to this thread today so sorry for having multiple back to back posts guys but this is fun.
I find it really funny that when I did that isidewith quiz, it came out with my top match by a significant margin being Bloomberg, an independent who ISN'T EVEN RUNNING (yet). Kind of perfectly sums up my views on this whole election, all the candidates who are running suck and have crap ideas that don't match with mine at all.
I got Bloomberg too. I thought, "Well, that doesn't help much!"
@CourtJack You asked questions I also wanted to know. The US economy/insurance/health care system baffles me and I really struggle to understand why people think that a social safety net is a bad thing. It's really fascinating to me how close our countries are geographically-speaking and yet how different they are ideologically-so.
Alright, here goes UO: Hillary should be in jail for mishandling classified information. No one is above the law. Bernie is a socialist and growing up in socialism, it just doesn't work. Free is not free.
This. If she wins the vote and ends up as president, the federal government is more than likely going to shut down due to the majority of federal agents walking off the job.
I can't stand Bernie Sanders. I don't get why everyone is flocking to the polls to vote for him. 90% of the stuff he says he will do will never happen. Free everything, for everyone!! Total BS.
It's not really free though. He's going to pay for it by taxing everyone like crazy. He wants to make 4 tax brackets, and the lowest tax rate is still higher than every other candidate's (republicans included) highest rate. He wants to tax millionaires 52%.
But in one way or another, won't what your "getting" in return for your tax money somewhat balance out vs what you wouldn't be paying out of pocket or in copay? (just thinking in terms of health care here). Again, full disclosure - I am VERY limited in my knowledge of how US insurance works....
Yes. Exactly like this. Fair warning, I am a fan of Bernie (not everything, but this part for sure). Everyone yells OMGSH IT'S NOT FREEEEEEE STUPID. And I'm all, yeah. I understand how things work in that they need to be paid for. Thanks for the lesson. He has proposals to obtain the money largely from businesses. I don't care enough to argue it out, but yes. His plan actually reduces out of pocket costs when you subtract out what's being paid for premiums and add in the raised taxes (for the middle class, at least).
But the money has to come from somewhere. If businesses are having increased expenses to pay for Bernie's stuff then they will have to increase revenue (cost to people like us) or cut other expenses (which could mean jobs).
Yep, basically, everyone will pay the price for all the free stuff. Less jobs, increase in the costs of goods, and higher taxes for individuals. Sounds fun, where do I sign up?
I guess I just don't understand why you think this will have such a negative impact? So many other countries operate in a similar fashion. And not everyone "pays the price" for all the "free" stuff". A family making a household income of 50K a year isn't going to "pay the price" in the same way that a family making $300K a year is, are they? Wouldn't the most impacted parties be the wealthiest businesses and people? (actual questions). And what about the benefits you'd be entitled to? Aren't they a good thing for families in your country?
The biggest issue many americans have with a socialist system is actually the basic concept of the system, that you work and someone else benefits even if they didn't work as hard as you did.
Also, to just jump in here, one of the bigger issues with Sanders is that he assumes that the economic demographics of the US will stay the same if he imposes higher taxes and there's a decent chance that that won't happen. Right before FB went public, one of the founders renounced his US citizenship to avoid some of the taxes on the profits. Many of the millionaires/billionaires in the US exploit loopholes to keep a hold on more of their money. If the loop holes are closed and they are taxed out to whazoo, then what's stopping them all from leaving here and going elsewhere, somewhere where their money isn't going to be taken from them to be used as the government sees fit. The same could be true of many companies that are based here because it's a more hospitable environment to businesses than other countries with higher corporate taxes.
A large number of americans also are very big on limited government (see the tea party faction of the GOP). They want to make their money, bring it home and do what they want with it without anyone else telling them what they do/don't need and how to use their money. Like @huskerfanz said, not everyone necessarily wants all the free stuff that the government might be offering so why should they be forced to pay for it if they won't use it to begin with (Hobby Lobby and their birth control stuff plays into this a bit, they didn't want to pay for birth control coverage in their employees insurance since it was against the religious beliefs of the owners. The premise was why should they have to pay for it if they didn't believe it should be used at all?).
Sorry, lurker from May 16 butting in, but... the bolded. Are you seriously implying that someone who doesn't make as much money as you doesn't work as hard? Seriously? Because I work 40 hours a week and go to school as time and money permit. I bring home about ~$18000 after taxes but before healthcare costs. Does this mean I don't work as hard as you?
I've lived in both countries. I'll take the US health care system - I was fortunate enough to be able to get a surgery here that would have been considered "elective" in Canada. The surgery was on both of my knees. I also received an iron infusion treatment here that I would not have been able to get in Canada. Not saying it's not available but I would not have been considered critical enough to qualify for it.
I can't stand Bernie Sanders. I don't get why everyone is flocking to the polls to vote for him. 90% of the stuff he says he will do will never happen. Free everything, for everyone!! Total BS.
It's not really free though. He's going to pay for it by taxing everyone like crazy. He wants to make 4 tax brackets, and the lowest tax rate is still higher than every other candidate's (republicans included) highest rate. He wants to tax millionaires 52%.
But in one way or another, won't what your "getting" in return for your tax money somewhat balance out vs what you wouldn't be paying out of pocket or in copay? (just thinking in terms of health care here). Again, full disclosure - I am VERY limited in my knowledge of how US insurance works....
Yes. Exactly like this. Fair warning, I am a fan of Bernie (not everything, but this part for sure). Everyone yells OMGSH IT'S NOT FREEEEEEE STUPID. And I'm all, yeah. I understand how things work in that they need to be paid for. Thanks for the lesson. He has proposals to obtain the money largely from businesses. I don't care enough to argue it out, but yes. His plan actually reduces out of pocket costs when you subtract out what's being paid for premiums and add in the raised taxes (for the middle class, at least).
But the money has to come from somewhere. If businesses are having increased expenses to pay for Bernie's stuff then they will have to increase revenue (cost to people like us) or cut other expenses (which could mean jobs).
Yep, basically, everyone will pay the price for all the free stuff. Less jobs, increase in the costs of goods, and higher taxes for individuals. Sounds fun, where do I sign up?
I guess I just don't understand why you think this will have such a negative impact? So many other countries operate in a similar fashion. And not everyone "pays the price" for all the "free" stuff". A family making a household income of 50K a year isn't going to "pay the price" in the same way that a family making $300K a year is, are they? Wouldn't the most impacted parties be the wealthiest businesses and people? (actual questions). And what about the benefits you'd be entitled to? Aren't they a good thing for families in your country?
The biggest issue many americans have with a socialist system is actually the basic concept of the system, that you work and someone else benefits even if they didn't work as hard as you did.
Also, to just jump in here, one of the bigger issues with Sanders is that he assumes that the economic demographics of the US will stay the same if he imposes higher taxes and there's a decent chance that that won't happen. Right before FB went public, one of the founders renounced his US citizenship to avoid some of the taxes on the profits. Many of the millionaires/billionaires in the US exploit loopholes to keep a hold on more of their money. If the loop holes are closed and they are taxed out to whazoo, then what's stopping them all from leaving here and going elsewhere, somewhere where their money isn't going to be taken from them to be used as the government sees fit. The same could be true of many companies that are based here because it's a more hospitable environment to businesses than other countries with higher corporate taxes.
A large number of americans also are very big on limited government (see the tea party faction of the GOP). They want to make their money, bring it home and do what they want with it without anyone else telling them what they do/don't need and how to use their money. Like @huskerfanz said, not everyone necessarily wants all the free stuff that the government might be offering so why should they be forced to pay for it if they won't use it to begin with (Hobby Lobby and their birth control stuff plays into this a bit, they didn't want to pay for birth control coverage in their employees insurance since it was against the religious beliefs of the owners. The premise was why should they have to pay for it if they didn't believe it should be used at all?).
Sorry, lurker from May 16 butting in, but... the bolded. Are you seriously implying that someone who doesn't make as much money as you doesn't work as hard? Seriously? Because I work 40 hours a week and go to school as time and money permit. I bring home about ~$18000 after taxes but before healthcare costs. Does this mean I don't work as hard as you?
I don't think she was implying income levels or who works harder. Just a general people work and pay into the system but don't always use all the benefits they are paying for but others do use them.
I bring home $0 but I definitely work.
DS 9/2/13 was a BFP from an IUI! Triplets due 6/29/16 also from an IUI!
But that could honestly be said for existing items now. Like my car insurance bill went up, even though there is no reason for it on our end. Our broker said it was a year where there were significant claims, so the increase is spread amongst all policyholders.
@mamanicoleof3 and this is what I was referring to about people learning that J16 is a cohesive board.
But that could honestly be said for existing items now. Like my car insurance bill went up, even though there is no reason for it on our end. Our broker said it was a year where there were significant claims, so the increase is spread amongst all policyholders.
But car insurance rates are based on how statistically likely you are to use the benefits, not income. If you speed or drink or cause an accident, your rates will go up. They don't go up when you earn more money like a tax would. Bills will always be going up because of inflation - costs just increase as expenses increase. And, everyone who is benefiting from your carrier, is paying money into the system. People aren't getting free car insurance because you are paying more.
ETA - I mean there are existing government programs that are socialist in nature. There are plenty of things I'm paying for that I don't currently use (social security for example). It's just a matter of if we should expand those programs to everyone, all the time. Education and healthcare are two big areas of discussion. Should we expand income based grants, so that everyone goes to school for free? Or expand medicaid so everyone is eligible for free/reduced health care?
DS 9/2/13 was a BFP from an IUI! Triplets due 6/29/16 also from an IUI!
You make some excellent points, but I was also thinking of those underinsured and not insured accidents that my policy covers for its policyholders. So in a way, I am paying for people who don't have car insurance. But I agree that we would be funding people who do not contribute to the overall pool.
ETA - I think your two examples are perfect. As a student who graduated with $55k in student loan debt, I believe more opportunities for lower-cost education should be available. If we have a society that demands further education for jobs, it should only have the infrastructure to support it. The year after I graduated, there was a hiring freeze on nursing positions. NURSING POSITIONS. There will always be a demand for nurses, but the money wasn't there to pay them. That's crazy! And healthcare is obviously important to me... I don't think a person should have to choose between medicine and food. But I also am intelligent and realize that the money has to come from somewhere, and I don't have an economics degree to say where that would be from. I don't think anyone will ever have the absolute right answer. There will be cuts from areas that shouldn't suffer to make allowances for areas that have been deemed important. It's a definite balancing act with opportunity costs.
You make some excellent points, but I was also thinking of those underinsured and not insured accidents that my policy covers for its policyholders. So in a way, I am paying for people who don't have car insurance. But I agree that we would be funding people who do not contribute to the overall pool.
ETA - I think your two examples are perfect. As a student who graduated with $55k in student loan debt, I believe more opportunities for lower-cost education should be available. If we have a society that demands further education for jobs, it should only have the infrastructure to support it. The year after I graduated, there was a hiring freeze on nursing positions. NURSING POSITIONS. There will always be a demand for nurses, but the money wasn't there to pay them. That's crazy! And healthcare is obviously important to me... I don't think a person should have to choose between medicine and food. But I also am intelligent and realize that the money has to come from somewhere, and I don't have an economics degree to say where that would be from. I don't think anyone will ever have the absolute right answer. There will be cuts from areas that shouldn't suffer to make allowances for areas that have been deemed important. It's a definite balancing act with opportunity costs.
My bigger thing with these two issues in particular is that there are better ways to address the insane costs of things like healthcare and education than just offsetting the costs to those who are more financially capable of paying for it. I have a good friend who was an exchange student from Germany in high school. She was shocked that we went on tours of colleges and looked at things like amenities etc when considering where we wanted to go. In Germany, apparently (according to her) schools don't put a ton of money into those extra cost items but tuition is much lower because you aren't paying for the new state of the art gym and fancy dorms etc. Their philosophy is you're here to learn, do those other things on your own time and dollar.
Same with healthcare. We pay multiple times what other countries pay for the same exact treatments. Instead of offsetting the obscene costs of heathcare (which is what they ACA essentially did), why not address the actual root of the problem, that doctors/hospitals can charge huge sums of money and end up with astronomical profits for things that aren't justified in costing as much as they do (ie $30 for an ibuprofen pill that you could easily buy at the drug store for $6 for a bottle of 50). Everyone having insurance isn't going to address this issue and make things any cheaper, all it does is guarantee that you won't be stuck with a $100,000 bill if you end up in the hospital.
Unless you work in negotiating the costs of these things down which none of the candidates have mentioned in their financial plans, offsetting the costs is just changing who pays the huge costs, not the fact that you're paying multiple times what you should for a service.
I totally agree!!! And trust me, the staff doesn't see the dividends of those expensive ibuprofens. I'm not saying nurses make nothing, but they're definitely underpaid for what they do daily. Same (and even more so) for teachers.
I've enjoyed reading both sides because I'm really bad at politics and I like hearing what everyone has to say. I just came to say I agree that our colleges offer way too many unnecessary amenities. I went to a private university for undergrad and am finishing up grad school at a public university. At first glance the public university seemed SOOO much cheaper but when I got my first semester bill it was double what "tuition" was listed as because of all the fees (buses, Rec center, IT, etc). I'm finishing up in May and have over $150K in student loans (my family couldn't afford to help me at all so I relied on loans for all 6 years). Long story short: I never used the amenities at either college because I didn't have time to go to the gym between classes, working 2 jobs, and studying.
I totally agree costs in education and healthcare are too high. I just think that instead of raising revenue with taxes, we need to look at why costs are so high and address that first.
DS 9/2/13 was a BFP from an IUI! Triplets due 6/29/16 also from an IUI!
My UO: I think it's weird when adults go to Disney World without children. It's a magical place, don't get me wrong. But if I'm going away with only my husband, I want a beach, a king sized bed and unlimited alcohol, not Mickey and Minnie!
#sorrynotsorry
Honestly, I've never had the opportunity to go to go there, but I would love to check it out for a few days. I find it a little strange that my brother and SIL went there for their honeymoon, I was all about beach, king size bed and unlimited alcohol then. Also, a friend of mine was married in Disney at the castle...a little strange considering, based on her wedding picks, the groomsmen were so drunk, they did a strip tease! Ha
Re: UO Thursday
Yes! Canada sounds great! I actually would be negatively affected. I am insanely lucky and pay no premiums. Zero. My company pays them all. But I am still in favor because I am not an asshole and believe every human deserves affordable basic medical care.
Triplets due 6/29/16 also from an IUI!
But the money has to come from somewhere. If businesses are having increased expenses to pay for Bernie's stuff then they will have to increase revenue (cost to people like us) or cut other expenses (which could mean jobs).
Triplets due 6/29/16 also from an IUI!
I guess I just don't understand why you think this will have such a negative impact? So many other countries operate in a similar fashion. And not everyone "pays the price" for all the "free" stuff". A family making a household income of 50K a year isn't going to "pay the price" in the same way that a family making $300K a year is, are they? Wouldn't the most impacted parties be the wealthiest businesses and people? (actual questions). And what about the benefits you'd be entitled to? Aren't they a good thing for families in your country?
And not everyone wants "free stuff." There are many arguments that the quality of socialist programs aren't as great.
Triplets due 6/29/16 also from an IUI!
Triplets due 6/29/16 also from an IUI!
Lol. I feel like I'm teetering on a line I shouldn't be crossing as I don't even live there.... :-) *slowly backs away*
On taxes, works nice in theory but it reality rich people, who by the way pay majority of taxes in this country, just move away. Detroit is a good example of Bernie's schemes at work.
Also, to just jump in here, one of the bigger issues with Sanders is that he assumes that the economic demographics of the US will stay the same if he imposes higher taxes and there's a decent chance that that won't happen. Right before FB went public, one of the founders renounced his US citizenship to avoid some of the taxes on the profits. Many of the millionaires/billionaires in the US exploit loopholes to keep a hold on more of their money. If the loop holes are closed and they are taxed out to whazoo, then what's stopping them all from leaving here and going elsewhere, somewhere where their money isn't going to be taken from them to be used as the government sees fit. The same could be true of many companies that are based here because it's a more hospitable environment to businesses than other countries with higher corporate taxes.
A large number of americans also are very big on limited government (see the tea party faction of the GOP). They want to make their money, bring it home and do what they want with it without anyone else telling them what they do/don't need and how to use their money. Like @huskerfanz said, not everyone necessarily wants all the free stuff that the government might be offering so why should they be forced to pay for it if they won't use it to begin with (Hobby Lobby and their birth control stuff plays into this a bit, they didn't want to pay for birth control coverage in their employees insurance since it was against the religious beliefs of the owners. The premise was why should they have to pay for it if they didn't believe it should be used at all?).
I find it really funny that when I did that isidewith quiz, it came out with my top match by a significant margin being Bloomberg, an independent who ISN'T EVEN RUNNING (yet). Kind of perfectly sums up my views on this whole election, all the candidates who are running suck and have crap ideas that don't match with mine at all.
If she wins the vote and ends up as president, the federal government is more than likely going to shut down due to the majority of federal agents walking off the job.
Also, I don't actually speak like that ("too tired to brain"). I just.....don't.
I bring home $0 but I definitely work.
Triplets due 6/29/16 also from an IUI!
@mamanicoleof3 and this is what I was referring to about people learning that J16 is a cohesive board.
ETA - I mean there are existing government programs that are socialist in nature. There are plenty of things I'm paying for that I don't currently use (social security for example). It's just a matter of if we should expand those programs to everyone, all the time. Education and healthcare are two big areas of discussion. Should we expand income based grants, so that everyone goes to school for free? Or expand medicaid so everyone is eligible for free/reduced health care?
Triplets due 6/29/16 also from an IUI!
ETA - I think your two examples are perfect. As a student who graduated with $55k in student loan debt, I believe more opportunities for lower-cost education should be available. If we have a society that demands further education for jobs, it should only have the infrastructure to support it. The year after I graduated, there was a hiring freeze on nursing positions. NURSING POSITIONS. There will always be a demand for nurses, but the money wasn't there to pay them. That's crazy! And healthcare is obviously important to me... I don't think a person should have to choose between medicine and food. But I also am intelligent and realize that the money has to come from somewhere, and I don't have an economics degree to say where that would be from. I don't think anyone will ever have the absolute right answer. There will be cuts from areas that shouldn't suffer to make allowances for areas that have been deemed important. It's a definite balancing act with opportunity costs.
Same with healthcare. We pay multiple times what other countries pay for the same exact treatments. Instead of offsetting the obscene costs of heathcare (which is what they ACA essentially did), why not address the actual root of the problem, that doctors/hospitals can charge huge sums of money and end up with astronomical profits for things that aren't justified in costing as much as they do (ie $30 for an ibuprofen pill that you could easily buy at the drug store for $6 for a bottle of 50). Everyone having insurance isn't going to address this issue and make things any cheaper, all it does is guarantee that you won't be stuck with a $100,000 bill if you end up in the hospital.
Unless you work in negotiating the costs of these things down which none of the candidates have mentioned in their financial plans, offsetting the costs is just changing who pays the huge costs, not the fact that you're paying multiple times what you should for a service.
I totally agree costs in education and healthcare are too high. I just think that instead of raising revenue with taxes, we need to look at why costs are so high and address that first.
Triplets due 6/29/16 also from an IUI!