Acupuncture?

glamakitti · February 2016

Hi
Can anyone explain how acupuncture helps with TTC? I'm just curious.

BrightenMySky · February 2016

Not sure if I'm officially ready for this board yet, but my RE gave me the go-ahead this morning, and I may have something to add here, so figured I'd chime in.

I did acupuncture for 2 cycles using Clomid and IUI, as well as some treatments in the first tri to help with morning sickness. My understand if that it's meant to promote circulation and blood flow to the uterus and ovaries. If you're doing fertility treatments, the acupuncture may also help with the side effects of the medications and assist with responsiveness to meds. My provider also suggests following a particular diet based on Traditional Chinese Medicine principles to assist with things like hormonal balancing. My acupuncturist links to this site for additional info: https://acupuncturepregnancy.com.au/research-reviews/.

Hope that is helpful!

AL_TwinCities · February 2016

^^ what she said! I also found reading some scientific evidence that acupuncture can help with fertility to be helpful when determining whether or not to start acupuncture. For example, this is a study from a peer reviewed journal that indicates that acupuncture appears to help women undergoing IVF get pregnant and keep their pregnancies :https://www.bmj.com/content/336/7643/545?articoli_sezioniArticoliPage=1

I am not doing IVF yet, but figured that if it helped with implantation when women are going through IVF, maybe it would also help women who are TTC naturally.

glamakitti · February 2016

Ooh, thank you for the info ladies. I was thinking of acupuncture as I am starting to wonder if I am actually ovulating since my mc; I don't chart but I have started this cycle.

BrightenMySky · February 2016

You might look into an acupuncturist who specializes in fertility. Although I haven't gone during natural cycles, I think my acupuncturist will work on regulating and figuring out natural cycles. I am happy to recommend her if you happen to be in the DC area, but hopefully you can find someone by you if you want to explore this option.

glamakitti · February 2016

@BrightenMySky
Thank you but I actually live in the UK

I have only been ttc for 2 cycles I may be jumping the gun a bit. I would love to know if anyone has felt acupuncture had helped them in anyway.
I'm trying temping and EPO this cycle to see if that helps me get a +opk.

AL_TwinCities · February 2016

BrightenMySky said:

You might look into an acupuncturist who specializes in fertility. Although I haven't gone during natural cycles, I think my acupuncturist will work on regulating and figuring out natural cycles. I am happy to recommend her if you happen to be in the DC area, but hopefully you can find someone by you if you want to explore this option.

I am not on medicated cycles of doing any assisted reproductive technologies (yet) and I've been going weekly. My acupuncturist is working on helping me to lengthen my LP, which is typically 11 days. When I am about to O (charting is important - temping, checking CM and CP, OPKs) she targets certain points to help stimulate O. When I am in my LP, she focuses on helping me build my lining and support implantation. When I am on my period, she focuses on helping my uterus flush out the lining and all clots.

I was TTC for 14 months after my first loss, with no luck. Then I started acupuncture month 15 and got pregnant. I ended up having a miscarriage but I am 100% a believer in the power of acupuncture still!

cjs260 · February 2016

Very briefly, the scientific community believes that acupuncture works by activating and regulating the autonomic nervous system, which is responsible for homeostasis - think about involuntary actions like heart rate, digestion, etc. So the autonomic nervous system (ANS) is thought to be influenced by hormonal changes through the cycle (estrogen first then progesterone), and nerves of the ANS go to the reproductive system - uterus, ovaries, cervix, vagina, clitoris. These nerve fibers influence the organs during the cycle - for example, estrogen causes you to secrete EWCM and your cervix position to be high which happens because of nerve innervation stimulating the movement and secretion of fluid. Hormones and the autonomic system are all one big interconnected group (put VERY simply) - even some neurons in the brain are only responsive during certain parts of the estrus cycle in animals. So my hypothesis is that regulation of the autonomic system allows for the regulation of the hormonal input to and from the reproductive organs (I could be way off here of course, my focus of research is on male sexual function, so I normally am not focused on female reproduction - except for my own, haha!). What's really going on will of course be much more detailed than what I've described here.

Acupuncture has been well documented in pain treatment, and mechanisms of action have been suggested. This hasn't happened yet (as far as I could see) for fertility. All this means is that researchers don't specifically know HOW or WHAT is influenced by acupuncture - and there needs to be more studies with larger groups of women AND animal models to be able to determine those types of things.

I briefly looked through some recent publications for the use of acupuncture in infertility and the only thing that has really been examined is use during IVF, and it seems there the results are controversial within the field - one study shows an influence while the next study does not. Again, that's probably a problem with study size. A 2013 meta-analysis called for more data with control groups to be able to remove the possibility of a placebo effect, which could also be possible.

All in all, acupuncture is definitely not hurting anything, and very well may be beneficial, but the science is still on the fence. I would say that based on its impact in pain regulation, it is helping with TTC, we just don't know why yet!

Edit: to clarify

BrightenMySky · February 2016

I'm also a believer! The month that I got pregnant after about 16 months of trying I did acupuncture while I was taking Clomid, and then right before and right after my IUI, as well as early in the pregnancy. At that point, I think it helped with my lack of appetite and nausea, and I know it had zero to do with my loss (we had a chromosomal abnormality).

glamakitti · February 2016

This is so interesting. Thank you for all your input ladies

glamakitti · February 2016

Also @BrightenMySky & @AL_TwinCities I am not sure how it works elsewhere but here in the UK I have only seen acupuncture provided in Chinese medicine shops; not to say it doesn't happen in other practises this is just my personal experience. Have your practitioners provided you with Chinese herb mixtures to drink along side your acupuncture if so how did that make you feel? I am being super nosey, sorry! Thank you if you are willing to share your experiences.

BrightenMySky · February 2016

My provider has a wide variety of herbs, but she has never brought them up with me, and it is not something I'm super interested in, so I haven't asked. She has suggested modifying my diet for fertility purposes, based on Traditional Chinese Medicine principles, and I have tried to make changes (she says aim for 80% compliance, so that makes it more realistic than 100%). And no worries about being nosey, I am happy to share my (limited) experiences.

fivetimesnoluck · February 2016

I know far less science (or theory) about this than any of the previous posters, but I have been treated by an acupuncturist since last summer and though I did experience a loss while under his care, I have still found it to be valuable. For me, the stress relief alone is worth it as we go through this wild ride with RPL.

Currently, I go every two weeks and our approach is simply about stress management. Once we are actively TTC again, we will change it up to promote a healthy cycle and circulation. And if we pursue IVF, we will definitely change it up even more. I have been very happy with the treatment and the effects on my health and state of mind. He is not a specialist with IF, but he and his wife conceived twins through IVF and he treated her through her pregnancy and treats many other patients with IF.

It doesn't hurt (except the pocket book!) and even my older and very traditional RE was supportive when I told him that I did it.

If you have access and want to give it a go, do it!

glamakitti · February 2016

Thanks again for sharing your experiences ladies; it has been very informative

AL_TwinCities · February 2016

glamakitti said:

Also @BrightenMySky & @AL_TwinCities I am not sure how it works elsewhere but here in the UK I have only seen acupuncture provided in Chinese medicine shops; not to say it doesn't happen in other practises this is just my personal experience. Have your practitioners provided you with Chinese herb mixtures to drink along side your acupuncture if so how did that make you feel? I am being super nosey, sorry! Thank you if you are willing to share your experiences.

I go to an acupuncture clinic that also provides Chinese herbs. My acupuncturist didn't start out with me on herbs, but she prescribed one mixture when I was recovering from my miscarriage to help balance me out. Now that I have AF again for the first time, she prescribed a different mixture to help my body expel everything from my uterus. I will likely go onto a different mixture once AF is over, to help me gear up to O. These herbs are in the form of pills, so I just take them with water. I haven't noticed a significant difference in how I'm feeling, but am willing to try it (they are also pretty inexpensive, like $13/bottle and a bottle lasts 2 weeks).

m6agua · February 2016

I don't have any and experience/advice to share on acupuncture or anything really.

I did want to say I heard from others on the TTGP board that EPO can delay ovulation. Thought I would pass that info along since you mentioned you are taking it.

glamakitti · February 2016

@m6agua Thank you for the tip! There is so much conflicting info out there I heard it helped increase ewcm so assumed it helped with ovulating too.
@AL_TwinCities Thanks for the info on the herbs.

FiancB · February 2016

TCM looks at the whole body. There are trends that tend to run together. The book Making Babies presents some good examples of this- if you are underweight then you are more likely to also run hot, possibly be hypertensive, have anxiety, be thirsty a lot- basically, see Grave's disease, or the "hot and dry" type in Making Babies. They look at your diet, your energy level, patterns of pain, your bowel pattern, even the coating on your tongue to search for a trend, a set of symptoms that can be improved together.

Basically the theory behind acupuncture is that there are channels of chi, or energy, that run through your body. Stimulating these points along those channels opens up what may have been stuck, allowing energy to flow freely again. It's been thought that it works for pain because of the gate control theory of pain- creating a new stimulus shuts down receptors that were focusing on another- but that doesn't explain why TCM is so helpful for a myriad of symptoms unrelated to pain. But it is. It's really becoming accepted and even pushed at my nursing school and at nearby hospitals. If it ever becomes a nursing specialty, I'd be interested in learning how to perform it (currently, nurses can get certifications in holistic care including healing touch and guided imagery, but not acupuncture yet).

In any case, being that hormones course through and affect and are affected by your entire body, I think TCM is a really good option for regulating them. For example, I have pretty short LPs of 10 days, not enough to be an issue where they'd be likely to give me progesterone, but maybe acupuncture could help improve upon it and improve my chances of maintaining a pregnancy. Similarly, my TSH is WNL but on the high side, and I'd like to optimize it. This issues are also consistent with a pattern of me being fatigued, having a sluggish metabolism, having difficulty focusing, and having a history of depression.

Western medicine has gotten better but still has a tendency to look at a person as a sum of its parts. Treat two different issues with different meds, then treat side effects of those meds with another med, and don't really take into account how it all fits together. TCM isn't for severe issues- like if you need surgery, you need it- but I think it's great for optimizing your health and thus fertility. If I'm not KU this cycle I'll probably start going every couple weeks. It's pretty relaxing, too. I've done it once, not for fertility issues and mostly because I was curious about it, and I fell asleep. I hate needles, and I fell asleep.

My community center offers group sessions for $25 and it just so happens that the people that do it have specialized in fertility. I go in and chat to someone for a bit, they place the needles, cover me with a blanket, then let me marinate while they work on other people, then remove them after 30 minutes and check in on how I'm doing.

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