For everyone feeling guilty or struggling with BF

Karenin · January 2016

I posted this in FFCF but wanted to make sure everyone got a chance to see it since it led to some very interesting discussions with my friends:

If anyone read "Expecting Better" you are familiar with Emily Oster- here is an article she wrote on BF that I really liked that might make a lot of us feel better: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/everybody-calm-down-about-breastfeeding/

LIly436 · January 2016

Such a BS

karynste19 · January 2016

Thanks for posting! Interesting read!

Mommyduclos · January 2016

I definitely agree with her that a lot of the studies are deeply flawed, however when you study breastmilk it's pretty amazing. The breastmilk changes in composition based on the age of the nursing child. If the child is fighting an illness the baby's saliva will essentially tell that to mom, who will then produce antibodies in her milk to help baby fight the illness, breastmilk changes composition based on time of day for example it has higher contents of melatonin at night to help baby sleep. It really is just an amazing relationship where the breast provides exactly what baby needs. When my two older kids would get sick it was amazing how much less sick/ faster healing time the currently breastfed child had than the non breastfed child. I think it's kind of like the organic vs non organic debate or eating regular meat vs the non treated, grass fed, free range blah blah blah. Is it healthier for you and likely to cause some improved health? Yeah, but is the alternative likely to make you super sickly and sad? No. Though some people are much more sensitive to their diet choices than others. Also, she fails to address the many health benefits of breastfeeding for mothers too.

Anyways- are we comparing diamonds to rocks here? No- both are perfectly acceptable ways to feed your baby! And I don't think any mother should feel bad for formula feeding. Ever. If it's right for her and baby it's the right choice. However, I think the biggest issue is there's still a lot of flawed information about breastfeeding- specifically women thinking they have low supply when they don't and how to handle supplementing (when necessary) in a way that doesn't damage the mom's ability to nurse if she wishes to. It doesn't make me sad when people choose to formula feed, what makes me sad is when women who really want to nurse are unable to and I would venture to say that a large majority of the time it is not truly due to an actual inability to nurse (which does happen but is extremely rare) but rather lack of support, help, or poor information given. We have improved in great strides, but there's still a lot of incorrect information floating around that is causing a lot of perfectly capable women to have a failed breastfeeding relationship. So as someone who strongly supports breastfeeding my concern is not whether or not it's "better" it's why so many wonderful women who want so badly to nurse are unable to? We are coming at this issue from the wrong angle- we don't need to prove to women that it's the better choice we need to improve societal views (like those lovely people who compare nursing to pooping) and work on truly educating our medical professionals to create the highest success rates possible for woman who DO want to breastfeed.

Women who want to formula feed should feel totally confident to go ahead and do so, BUT women who want to breastfeed should be able to do so as well- the "failure" rate shouldn't be as high as it is. Our bodies are more than capable- a great majority of the time, so what are we doing wrong to impede our natural abilities? That's what I want to know and see change rather than more studies about which is better.

Karenin · January 2016

Thanks for this info Mommyduclos! Lots of good stuff for us all to think about!

danasphillips · January 2016

Mommyduclos said:
I definitely agree with her that a lot of the studies are deeply flawed, however when you study breastmilk it's pretty amazing. The breastmilk changes in composition based on the age of the nursing child. If the child is fighting an illness the baby's saliva will essentially tell that to mom, who will then produce antibodies in her milk to help baby fight the illness, breastmilk changes composition based on time of day for example it has higher contents of melatonin at night to help baby sleep. It really is just an amazing relationship where the breast provides exactly what baby needs. When my two older kids would get sick it was amazing how much less sick/ faster healing time the currently breastfed child had than the non breastfed child. I think it's kind of like the organic vs non organic debate or eating regular meat vs the non treated, grass fed, free range blah blah blah. Is it healthier for you and likely to cause some improved health? Yeah, but is the alternative likely to make you super sickly and sad? No. Though some people are much more sensitive to their diet choices than others. Also, she fails to address the many health benefits of breastfeeding for mothers too.

Anyways- are we comparing diamonds to rocks here? No- both are perfectly acceptable ways to feed your baby! And I don't think any mother should feel bad for formula feeding. Ever. If it's right for her and baby it's the right choice. However, I think the biggest issue is there's still a lot of flawed information about breastfeeding- specifically women thinking they have low supply when they don't and how to handle supplementing (when necessary) in a way that doesn't damage the mom's ability to nurse if she wishes to. It doesn't make me sad when people choose to formula feed, what makes me sad is when women who really want to nurse are unable to and I would venture to say that a large majority of the time it is not truly due to an actual inability to nurse (which does happen but is extremely rare) but rather lack of support, help, or poor information given. We have improved in great strides, but there's still a lot of incorrect information floating around that is causing a lot of perfectly capable women to have a failed breastfeeding relationship. So as someone who strongly supports breastfeeding my concern is not whether or not it's "better" it's why so many wonderful women who want so badly to nurse are unable to? We are coming at this issue from the wrong angle- we don't need to prove to women that it's the better choice we need to improve societal views (like those lovely people who compare nursing to pooping) and work on truly educating our medical professionals to create the highest success rates possible for woman who DO want to breastfeed.

Women who want to formula feed should feel totally confident to go ahead and do so, BUT women who want to breastfeed should be able to do so as well- the "failure" rate shouldn't be as high as it is. Our bodies are more than capable- a great majority of the time, so what are we doing wrong to impede our natural abilities? That's what I want to know and see change rather than more studies about which is better.

So much this.

LIly436 · January 2016

What is the point of keeping a healthy lifestyle, eating organic etc and then feed the baby highly processed artificially created full of chemicals concoction ? Sure you may feel better and nipples would not hurt, but what about the health of the baby you cared so much for 9 months of pregnancy. Formula maybe convenient, but don't call as good as breast milk. Why do you call to adapt this "mediocre is good enough" mentality?
Just the fact, that my breast milk will protect my baby from infections is good enough for me and I don't care how much my nipples hurt

Becky012016 · January 2016

LIly436 said:
What is the point of keeping a healthy lifestyle, eating organic etc and then feed the baby highly processed artificially created full of chemicals concoction ? Sure you may feel better and nipples would not hurt, but what about the health of the baby you cared so much for 9 months of pregnancy. Formula maybe convenient, but don't call as good as breast milk. Why do you call to adapt this "mediocre is good enough" mentality?
Just the fact, that my breast milk will protect my baby from infections is good enough for me and I don't care how much my nipples hurt

Stop being a troll and try being supportive of a different point of view for once. Clearly, you're perfect and everyone else who chooses formula is beneath you. 4 for you Glenn Cocoa...

scornwell717 · January 2016

LIly436 said:
What is the point of keeping a healthy lifestyle, eating organic etc and then feed the baby highly processed artificially created full of chemicals concoction ? Sure you may feel better and nipples would not hurt, but what about the health of the baby you cared so much for 9 months of pregnancy. Formula maybe convenient, but don't call as good as breast milk. Why do you call to adapt this "mediocre is good enough" mentality?
Just the fact, that my breast milk will protect my baby from infections is good enough for me and I don't care how much my nipples hurt

** Removed for TOU violation **

Becky012016 · January 2016

scornwell717 said:

LIly436 said:
What is the point of keeping a healthy lifestyle, eating organic etc and then feed the baby highly processed artificially created full of chemicals concoction ? Sure you may feel better and nipples would not hurt, but what about the health of the baby you cared so much for 9 months of pregnancy. Formula maybe convenient, but don't call as good as breast milk. Why do you call to adapt this "mediocre is good enough" mentality?
Just the fact, that my breast milk will protect my baby from infections is good enough for me and I don't care how much my nipples hurt
** Removed for TOU violation **

Well said, @scornwell717! I'd rather be mediocre (and heathy!) than pretentious.

mrscammack · January 2016

@scornwell717 thank you for articulating that so perfectly! You have nothing to feel bad about, I too was formula fed and was always at the top of my class, rarely sick as a child, and have always been just as healthy and well adjusted as my peers. Personally I plan on trying to breastfeed but I won't feel even slightly guilty if it doesn't work out and I need to switch to formula and I hate people who shame women for feeding their baby in the way that works best for them.

Becky012016 · January 2016

LIly436 said:
What is the point of keeping a healthy lifestyle, eating organic etc and then feed the baby highly processed artificially created full of chemicals concoction ? Sure you may feel better and nipples would not hurt, but what about the health of the baby you cared so much for 9 months of pregnancy. Formula maybe convenient, but don't call as good as breast milk. Why do you call to adapt this "mediocre is good enough" mentality?
Just the fact, that my breast milk will protect my baby from infections is good enough for me and I don't care how much my nipples hurt

You know what else protects your child from illness? SCIENCE. Vaccines, antibiotics, antifungals, antihelminths, antivirals all help your child get over an illness if they catch one.
Oh, and I sure hope you didn't take any prenatal vitamins bc those are definitely an artificial concoction created to help keep you and the baby healthy.

karynste19 · January 2016

Mommyduclos, great points. Unfortunately breastfeeding didn't work for me (and not because I didn't give it a shot) but I completely agree all moms should be supported properly and have access to the best information for their given situation.

Llly436 - my child will be much better off having a loving and compassionate mom. Those traits aren't passed through breastmilk. Good luck with your incredibly judgmental thoughts. I hope when things don't go as you planned you have someone respond the way you have.

scornwell717 · January 2016

@012016 yes to everything you said...laughing so hard at the prenatal vitamins. Sooo true

scornwell717 · January 2016

And @karynste19 amen to what you said too!

hannahduff3 · January 2016

LIly436 said:
What is the point of keeping a healthy lifestyle, eating organic etc and then feed the baby highly processed artificially created full of chemicals concoction ? Sure you may feel better and nipples would not hurt, but what about the health of the baby you cared so much for 9 months of pregnancy. Formula maybe convenient, but don't call as good as breast milk. Why do you call to adapt this "mediocre is good enough" mentality?
Just the fact, that my breast milk will protect my baby from infections is good enough for me and I don't care how much my nipples hurt

What is the point of having such a negative attitude all the time? When did it become okay to have mediocre replies to every discussion to contribute to? I'd rather have sore nipples the rest of my life than read something else you post.

saraawlbr · January 2016

Ladies, thank you so much. As a FTM who has come to the decision that breastfeeding just isn't working for me or my LO and has recently switched to formula it's really hard to read comments bashing my decisions as a mother. A job I've only held for two weeks. It's nice to see that there are still some women out there who aren't judgemental but, supportive of mum's that are making decisions that will result in a happy and well-fed baby without being a snob about it.

LIly436 · January 2016

012016 said:

What is the point of keeping a healthy lifestyle, eating organic etc and then feed the baby highly processed artificially created full of chemicals concoction ? Sure you may feel better and nipples would not hurt, but what about the health of the baby you cared so much for 9 months of pregnancy. Formula maybe convenient, but don't call as good as breast milk. Why do you call to adapt this "mediocre is good enough" mentality?
Just the fact, that my breast milk will protect my baby from infections is good enough for me and I don't care how much my nipples hurt
Stop being a troll and try being supportive of a different point of view for once. Clearly, you're perfect and everyone else who chooses formula is beneath you. 4 for you Glenn Cocoa...

This is my point of view. Unfortunately you have a problem understanding written words. Formula is like a medicine created for real problems and should not be called equal to breast milk

LIly436 · January 2016

**Removed for TOU violation**

Achae · January 2016

**Removed for TOU violation**

Based on your doctoral degree and evidence from... Oh in your head.

Becky012016 · January 2016

**Removed for TOU violation**

maureenmce · January 2016

Sorry, this is long, but this argument makes me so sad and angry! Anyway, if this is all TLDR, the most important thing to remember is this: whether or not you breastfeed your child, that single decision is NOT going to be the difference between your kid being a healthy, happy, successful kid, and being unhappy, unhealthy and unsuccessful kid. There are SO many factors that go into the health of a child (both physical and emotional health), so many factors that go into the intelligence, confidence and kindness of a child, and whether or not they were breast fed for a year, a month, or not at all, that one single factor is NOT going to be the make or break difference. I think the aim should be a healthy and happy family life, for parents and baby, and if breastfeeding is a part of that, great! That's awesome! If not, that's okay too.

And factually yes, breast milk is fantastic nourishment! It's super healthy for the baby and it's free! It may help your child be less sick as a baby (again *may* help, because there are many factors at play), but if you don't have the option to breast feed, either because of lack of milk, or adoption, or difficulty with the breastfeeding process, medications you need to take, or postpartum depression, or a ton of other reasons, formula is a *perfectly healthy* alternative.

And again, this one thing in the history of a whole PERSON, is not going to be the difference. I mean, there ARE some things during infancy (very few) that can make a permanent difference in the life of a person. For example not being held or touched, being abused, being starved or otherwise neglected. But breastfeeding vs formula is *not* one of the things that can deeply harm or impact the life of a person, long term.

For some fun anecdotal evidence, I was a vaginally birthed baby who was breastfed for a whole year. So was my brother. As kids I was super healthy and rarely got sick. My brother, same birth, same breastfeeding, was colicky and then had chronic ear and throat infections all his childhood. As adults, I'm a healthy, happy adult in a successful career, enjoying a long and fulfilling partnership with my husband. My brother is a deeply depressed, unemployed alcoholic. It's really sad and terrible. But we had the *exact* same start in life, in terms of this topic, and things went very differently for us both.

On the other hand, my husband was a c section baby who was fed formula. He is, like me, obviously, in our happy marriage and is successful in his dream career. He is probably more successful than I am, more patient, and healthier. And he was the c section/formula baby!

Overall, my point being, yes, if you can *healthily* breastfeed (and I am absolutely 100% including the *mother's* mental and physical health and happiness in this statement) then fantastic! You've got yourself a free and wonderful source of nourishment. If you can't or won't for whatever reason - this one thing is not going to permanently impact the health or trajectory of your kiddo, long term.

I feel like this argument is especially damaging because it treats the mother and her happiness and health as an aside, as a very distant second place to the food source for baby. This should not be the case. I think it's normal to anticipate a rough patch with breastfeeding, certainly with adjusting to hormone swings after the birth of the baby, and getting used to doing something brand new, and it's fine to encourage mothers to get through that patch, but to act as if a woman should just soldier on in the face of serious problems or depression or just months and months of genuine unhappiness is absurd and unnecessary. Health is a word that encompasses a lot of things, including physical nourishment and emotional environment. I think the only aim we strive for should be a loving, happy, healthy environment for the baby, and nourishing food in his or her stomach - whether it's formula or breast milk should be a specific choice related to what works for that particular woman, child and family. To shame or bully people otherwise is rude and again, isn't going to really matter, in the long run.

scornwell717 · January 2016

LIly436 said:

scornwell717 said:

LIly436 said:
What is the point of keeping a healthy lifestyle, eating organic etc and then feed the baby highly processed artificially created full of chemicals concoction ? Sure you may feel better and nipples would not hurt, but what about the health of the baby you cared so much for 9 months of pregnancy. Formula maybe convenient, but don't call as good as breast milk. Why do you call to adapt this "mediocre is good enough" mentality?
Just the fact, that my breast milk will protect my baby from infections is good enough for me and I don't care how much my nipples hurt
** Removed for TOU violation **

Maybe formula to blame that you are unable to have a civilized conversation. Some people have legitimate problems, but majority just don't want to bother, thanks to articles like above. All I am saying is don't say formula is equally as good - it is not

Formula is to blame that I'm unable to have a civilized conversation? Hahaha you are batshit insane.
At least my formula fed brain is smart enough to understand the concept shaming and bullying and how wrong it is.

babybluu · January 2016

This helps me feel a little better. I'm mostly breast feeding but my nipples are so sore, and baby is 2 weeks old tomorrow and is still 5oz below birth weight and hasn't gained any weight in over a week. Her Ped wasn't adamant that I supplement yet, but sometimes I wish he would be so that way I would have "no choice" but to supplement and it wouldn't be my decision. I give her formula some nights whenever I'm just too tired to deal with breast feeding. I'm just so stressed out thinking about having to pump now to get a freezer stash going for when I go to work. Especially since I barely Can get anything from pumping. I'm scared if I formula feed that I won't have that bond with my baby, and the thought of losing my milk supply because of switching to formula and not being able to have the option to breastfeed if I want makes me sad. I think if she hasn't gained weight by her appointment next week I'll switch to formula temporarily to help her gain and use the opportunity to exclusively pump for a little while to keep my supply up. Everyone I talked to keeps saying breastfeeding gets easier eventually and that it's worth the struggle. I just really really hope they're right

kmo8986 · January 2016

babybluu said:
This helps me feel a little better. I'm mostly breast feeding but my nipples are so sore, and baby is 2 weeks old tomorrow and is still 5oz below birth weight and hasn't gained any weight in over a week. Her Ped wasn't adamant that I supplement yet, but sometimes I wish he would be so that way I would have "no choice" but to supplement and it wouldn't be my decision. I give her formula some nights whenever I'm just too tired to deal with breast feeding. I'm just so stressed out thinking about having to pump now to get a freezer stash going for when I go to work. Especially since I barely Can get anything from pumping. I'm scared if I formula feed that I won't have that bond with my baby, and the thought of losing my milk supply because of switching to formula and not being able to have the option to breastfeed if I want makes me sad. I think if she hasn't gained weight by her appointment next week I'll switch to formula temporarily to help her gain and use the opportunity to exclusively pump for a little while to keep my supply up. Everyone I talked to keeps saying breastfeeding gets easier eventually and that it's worth the struggle. I just really really hope they're right

I have to say I gave it a shot for 6 weeks with my first and it never got easier. This time around we are at day 10 and it is definitely getting easier. I am holding of giving a bottle until 1 month so until then she has to be with me which is a little suffocating, but worth it if I can continue to breast feed successfully and save the money from formula, and not have to deal with bottles all the time. We will see how I do when I go back to work and have to pump twice a day but for now being home it is working.

scornwell717 · January 2016

@babybluu all of your concerns are valid, but don't once think you won't have that bond with your baby! If you do have to switch to formula, I promise you that bond will be just as good as it always is

Myelhsa · January 2016

@babybluu, I was worried about bonding too as LO wouldn't latch. She's never fed from my breast, but gets a mixture of BM and formula in a bottle.

When I feed her, I keep eye contact with her, talk to her, sing to her, smile a lot. She'll also reach up often and grab a finger on the hand that's holding the bottle. The bond I feel with her is awesome and I wouldn't trade it for the world.

ChrissyD1203 · January 2016

@LIly436 I've noticed in the short time you have been on this board you have shamed formula feeders, people who bf in public without a cover, implied to one woman her relationship was doomed because she had fought with her husband a lot in the third trimester and scared the rest of us that if our husbands watched the birth they would never want to have sex again (but refused to ever post your source despite so many requests). While you are as much entitled to your opinions as the rest of us and opposing views on important topics are great - I think you would get more traction if you found a different kinder way to deliver your messages. We are all trying our best. Most of us on here are looking for a supportive community to share the ups and downs of this pregnancy / motherhood journey and not looking to be judged. I know you are a medical professional so you must be aware of the negative effects of cyber bullying on people. Would you please consider how the tone of your posts and the words you choose make others feel before posting.

scornwell717 · January 2016

She's a medical professional? Wtf?

BumpAdmin · January 2016

This thread has been closed to new posts due to the change in topic. Continuing to create threads related to this topic will be grounds for warning and/or removal from The Bump Community.

Please note that we remove posts that do not follow our guidelines and will issue warnings to users who violate the Terms of Use.

To review our Community guidelines, please visit the Bump Guidelines pinned at the top of this board. Thank you.

For everyone feeling guilty or struggling with BF

Re: For everyone feeling guilty or struggling with BF

Choose Another Board

Search Boards