@thegoudalife : (LOVE your SN by the way) I feel that way for myself about being able to afford the children I have and want. That's a personal standard for me, but where folks get into trouble-- is when they take a personal standard and try to apply it to the world at large. Statements like, "everyone should wait until they can afford kids to have them" (not that you said this-- just the general statement). For some, the way the economics are these days-- they would NEVER be in a comfortable financial position to be able to afford kids.
I can absolutely understand what you're saying, really. I'm not out to be argumentative.
My mom always used to tell me, "If your dad and I waited until we could afford kids/house, we'd still be waiting." And I get that, to a degree.
But couldn't one argue that that reasoning is somewhat selfish? At the moment a person decides to have a child, knowing they aren't in the position to afford one, are they thinking about how that decision could affect said child? Will they be able to feed their child? Clothe them? Provide a roof over their head?
To me, to move forward with the decision to bring a life into the world, knowing you may not be able to provide for them what they need, it's not responsible behavior.
That's a totally good point, but I think very poor people can raise amazing, wonderful children. I have had students who came from both extremes - very, very rich and very,very poor and both sides yeild happy, sad, satisfied, unsatisfied, smart, dumb, troublemaker, responsible... etc. If you argue that if you can't afford something like 3 months of postpartum leave you are being irresponsible by having children then could you not also argue that two married ER doctors should not have children because they wont be able to see them very often? As someone who interacts with hundred of kids every day of my life I can tell you it's not the poor kids who have a rough time - it's the kids who never see their parents. But I would NEVER say it's irresponsible for two lawyers to have kids. And I doubt you would either.
This is what Prim and I were talking about when we said you can't extend your personal morals to everyone else. Where does it stop? People must ultimately make these decisions for themselves and you trust that they are doing their best.
@thegoudalife : (LOVE your SN by the way) I feel that way for myself about being able to afford the children I have and want. That's a personal standard for me, but where folks get into trouble-- is when they take a personal standard and try to apply it to the world at large. Statements like, "everyone should wait until they can afford kids to have them" (not that you said this-- just the general statement). For some, the way the economics are these days-- they would NEVER be in a comfortable financial position to be able to afford kids.
I can absolutely understand what you're saying, really. I'm not out to be argumentative.
My mom always used to tell me, "If your dad and I waited until we could afford kids/house, we'd still be waiting." And I get that, to a degree.
But couldn't one argue that that reasoning is somewhat selfish? At the moment a person decides to have a child, knowing they aren't in the position to afford one, are they thinking about how that decision could affect said child? Will they be able to feed their child? Clothe them? Provide a roof over their head?
To me, to move forward with the decision to bring a life into the world, knowing you may not be able to provide for them what they need, it's not responsible behavior.
I see what you are saying, but procreation-- by its very nature is really a selfish act. Just basically. Shit happens, you know? You could have all your stuff set up to provide for your kids and then shit happens. You lose everything, have a major health issue and it all goes boom. I know a couple that have had this happen. They were SET. Had a set of twins, and then a singleton. Everything was awesome until about a year ago. Dude lost his job and his wife got cancer. Just, I mean-- shit happens.
OP here. This thread has been fascinating. By and large there's agreement that parental leave is important, that a large percentage of people don't get or can't afford it, and that it's best for the baby. But everyone also agrees that it's tacky to provide a way for parents' networks to help them out in lieu of traditional gifts. So...we clearly don't think parental leave is important enough to trump the perception of tackiness? I started out ambivalent, but the more I've thought about this and read your posts, the more I'm troubled by the attitude that we're all supposed to just suck it up and deal with the (ridiculously oppressive) financial burdens of raising a kid well in this country. I'm a professional with an advanced degree (and the student loan debt to go with it) and absolutely could not have saved up enough in nine months to pay for three months of leave. I had to go back to work at 6 weeks, and the 50 newborn-sized onesies we got didn't exactly help the situation.
OP here. This thread has been fascinating. By and large there's agreement that parental leave is important, that a large percentage of people don't get or can't afford it, and that it's best for the baby. But everyone also agrees that it's tacky to provide a way for parents' networks to help them out in lieu of traditional gifts. So...we clearly don't think parental leave is important enough to trump the perception of tackiness? I started out ambivalent, but the more I've thought about this and read your posts, the more I'm troubled by the attitude that we're all supposed to just suck it up and deal with the (ridiculously oppressive) financial burdens of raising a kid well in this country. I'm a professional with an advanced degree (and the student loan debt to go with it) and absolutely could not have saved up enough in nine months to pay for three months of leave. I had to go back to work at 6 weeks, and the 50 newborn-sized onesies we got didn't exactly help the situation.
well, I think the core issue here is whether having a child is a right or a privilege. I tend to think it's a privilege; a common privilege (like driving) but not a right. It would be nice to have a system in this country that allow for longer maternity/ paternity leave, and some companies do provide that but as we all know, most don't. But that is entirely a different argument than whether or not others who had no part in your decision to have kids should fund your maternity or your husband's paternity leave.
OP here. This thread has been fascinating. By and large there's agreement that parental leave is important, that a large percentage of people don't get or can't afford it, and that it's best for the baby. But everyone also agrees that it's tacky to provide a way for parents' networks to help them out in lieu of traditional gifts. So...we clearly don't think parental leave is important enough to trump the perception of tackiness? I started out ambivalent, but the more I've thought about this and read your posts, the more I'm troubled by the attitude that we're all supposed to just suck it up and deal with the (ridiculously oppressive) financial burdens of raising a kid well in this country. I'm a professional with an advanced degree (and the student loan debt to go with it) and absolutely could not have saved up enough in nine months to pay for three months of leave. I had to go back to work at 6 weeks, and the 50 newborn-sized onesies we got didn't exactly help the situation.
I don't think saying parents shouldn't use a Gofundme on a baby registry means I don't think parents should have paid leave. I vote for politicians who support paid parental leave. THAT'S how I support parents. What if you don't have friends or family who can help you out with a fund? Gofundme is not a reliable way for parents to get paid leave and they shouldn't have to resort to such measures. Their company or the government should provide it.
Gofundme is not a reliable way for parents to get paid leave and they shouldn't have to resort to such measures. Their company or the government should provide it.
Right, parents shouldn't have to resort to this! But until the companies or the government DO provide paid leave (which ain't happening any time soon), essentially what you (collective you) are saying is that only the kids of wealthy people or those working for the few progressive companies out there will get to benefit from their parents being home. IMO, a major underlying problem to the parental leave situation is this attitude that it's unamerican / rude / irresponsible to ask others (government / employer / family / friends) for help.
OP here. This thread has been fascinating. By and large there's agreement that parental leave is important, that a large percentage of people don't get or can't afford it, and that it's best for the baby. But everyone also agrees that it's tacky to provide a way for parents' networks to help them out in lieu of traditional gifts. So...we clearly don't think parental leave is important enough to trump the perception of tackiness? I started out ambivalent, but the more I've thought about this and read your posts, the more I'm troubled by the attitude that we're all supposed to just suck it up and deal with the (ridiculously oppressive) financial burdens of raising a kid well in this country. I'm a professional with an advanced degree (and the student loan debt to go with it) and absolutely could not have saved up enough in nine months to pay for three months of leave. I had to go back to work at 6 weeks, and the 50 newborn-sized onesies we got didn't exactly help the situation.
I don't think saying parents shouldn't use a Gofundme on a baby registry means I don't think parents should have paid leave. I vote for politicians who support paid parental leave. THAT'S how I support parents. What if you don't have friends or family who can help you out with a fund? Gofundme is not a reliable way for parents to get paid leave and they shouldn't have to resort to such measures. Their company or the government should provide it.
Gofundme is not a reliable way for parents to get paid leave and they shouldn't have to resort to such measures. Their company or the government should provide it.
Right, parents shouldn't have to resort to this! But until the companies or the government DO provide paid leave (which ain't happening any time soon), essentially what you (collective you) are saying is that only the kids of wealthy people or those working for the few progressive companies out there will get to benefit from their parents being home. IMO, a major underlying problem to the parental leave situation is this attitude that it's unamerican / rude / irresponsible to ask others (government / employer / family / friends) for help.
I wouldn't side eye someone HAVING a fund like this. To me it's very similar to when someone has a fund like this for a cancer treatment, or their house burned down, or similar. Only if they were using it in place of a registry simply because it is asking for cash rather than being a list of things the baby and parents will need. Cash is not something you ask for on a registry.
Gofundme is not a reliable way for parents to get paid leave and they shouldn't have to resort to such measures. Their company or the government should provide it.
Right, parents shouldn't have to resort to this! But until the companies or the government DO provide paid leave (which ain't happening any time soon), essentially what you (collective you) are saying is that only the kids of wealthy people or those working for the few progressive companies out there will get to benefit from their parents being home. IMO, a major underlying problem to the parental leave situation is this attitude that it's unamerican / rude / irresponsible to ask others (government / employer / family / friends) for help.
I wouldn't side eye someone HAVING a fund like this. To me it's very similar to when someone has a fund like this for a cancer treatment, or their house burned down, or similar. Only if they were using it in place of a registry simply because it is asking for cash rather than being a list of things the baby and parents will need. Cash is not something you ask for on a registry.
I would side eye someone for having a GoFundMe for their maternity leave. Or their honeymoon. Absolutely.
I would side eye someone for having a GoFundMe for their maternity leave. Or their honeymoon. Absolutely.
What if a friend sets it up, knowing leave is an issue for the parents? Still side eye?
yes, still side eye. If someone is doing something tacky/inappropriate in my name (even with the best of intentions), I would shut it down politely.
Yes. That and I would be horrified and embarrassed to advertise my financial situation like that. Its not anyone's business.
Agreed I would never personally do this - and my DH and I definitely do not currently have the cash for me to take 3 months of unpaid leave without financial strain so it's not that I'm just a rich girl being bitchy. Gofundme just isn't my style. I don't care if someone else has one as long as they don't use it as a registry or shove it down everyone's throats on social media because as long as its not affecting my day to day then *shrug*. I think something is only bad etiquette if it could potentially be inconveniencing/offending someone. There's a fine line there and you need to tread carefully.
My cousin set up a GoFundMe to collect money so her and her girlfriend could get married at Burning Man. Then after enough idiots gave her the amount she asked for, she had the nerve to start ANOTHER fund because she "didn't realize so many people would give money and meet her goal I might as well try to collect more!". WTAF?! That's just pathetic.
Re: Shower/registry to fund leave from work?
LFAF Summer 2016 Awards:
me: 27 | husband: 35
IR PCOS dx Sept. 2014
married May 2015 --> started NTNP
BFP 6.28.15 - EDD 3.6.16
baby #1 born 2.19.16
TTC #2 in April 2017
BFP 12.30.17 - EDD 9.6.18
Fertility Friend Chart
LFAF Summer 2016 Awards:
So much this. Yikes.