Immune Issues - Killer Attack Cells - Intralipids

oxinfree · December 2015

Hey ladies... lets talk about immune issues for a moment shall we?

I am wondering who else has suspicions of (or confirmed) immune issues.

I have a host of allergies (food and environmental) which, after never having gotten pregnant and no other reasons to explain, my doc and I are thinking could be preventing conception.

So heres the thing. The test for it is paid out of pocket, yet treatment is covered by insurance (wtf!?). I'm considering going ahead with intralipid therapy for our next IVF cycle in the new year, but am torn on whether to do the testing or not. Given the fact that I have sooooo many allergy issues in general, I really feel like it would benefit me. My RE assured me that doing them even if I hadn't of needed them wouldn't cause any harm. I'm curious though, and need to look into that a bit more.

Do any of you have any experience with this stuff? Its the first I'm looking into immunological issues for myself and really want to be as informed as possible. I did some searching on forums and found one good thread, but would love to connect with some ladies here who have, or are going through it...

Look forward to hearing from you!

O

bsckgb7 · December 2015

Has your doctor consider a low dose steroid to help calm the immune system and reduce inflammation?

NicWalker10 · December 2015

@oxinfree -- I also have very bad environmental allergies and asthma. We did our first IVF cycle for Male factor which resulted in a chemical. We had only 3 of 8 embryos make it to blasts, and then only 1 of those 3 PGD'd normal. We transferred that one and came back with a very low beta eventually with an HCG at zero. After this, I of course did a ton of research and we met with our RE to talk about the reasons for the failure and next steps. I raised the issue of my allergies because I have read about allergies associated with increased inflammation and possible celiac or gluten allergies (which ive never been tested for) affecting the outcome. My RE was clearly not into my suggestion of a connection between the two. He told us we could do a "loss panel" which includes immunological issues if we wanted to but said most people do it after 2 unexplained losses. I also started going to acupuncture since this failed cycle ended and my acupuncturist was very interested in me pursuing the panel because of the allergies and inflammation I'm prone to. In any event, I did go for the blood work this past Sunday. The full panel takes a week for results. I will be glad to share with you my results, or information obtained from the panel when I get them back.

have you tired acupuncture? if so did you see any benefits? I'd be curious of your experience if you thought it has been helpful. I think (if my memory is working) from prior posts you are in NYC? I started going to YinOva and I really like the acupuncturist I started seeing. Maybe worth a consult as I know they do address inflammation issues! Just a thought!

oxinfree · December 2015

@bsckgb7 - have not discussed that yet, but just in the testing phase currently. Biopsy in Jan, so looking like Feb/Mar for cycle. I'll definitely ask about it though. I actually take flonase almost daily for my allergies (which is a mild steroid I believe)... and stopped during our last rounds... Definitely something to bring up with the doc this time around though. thnx

@NicWalker10 - yes, I am! And funny enough I looked into YinOva so glad you mentioned them and your personal experience. Who specifically are you seeing there? Do they specialize in infertility by chance?

I have done acupuncture in the past. I'm a bit of a busy body, and wasn't a huge fan of laying with needles in me. Now that I'm more into meditation, I could try to meditate while having it done so am considering giving it another go. Haven't decided if I'll do the pre/post transfer acupuncture. What are your plans in terms of that?

For my allergies, I have gone completely wheat free (and I feel a million times better than I used to). I am mostly dairy/egg free as well with the occasional cheese garnish type situation

I also don't drink anymore... so my health and inflammation has been a big focus during my break from treatment and I really feel like its paying off.

I'd be super interested to hear about your panel results. Where did you go for it?

bsckgb7 · December 2015

oxinfree - I have a diagnosed autoimmune disorder and had wondered if my body was killing the swimmers as "an invader". Prednisone would be a systemic steroid as Flonase may not be systemic. It may be a low-tech answer that could help calm the immune response temporarily.

oxinfree · December 2015

@bsckgb7 - interesting... ya, I know very little about the whole immune side of things. All new for me. Best get 'a reading I guess

thanks for the tip!

NicWalker10 · December 2015

@oxinfree - I did my initial consultation with Dara and I really liked her so I am going to keep my appointments with her. she does focus on infertility and was very knowledgeable when I spoke with her. She was also a very nice person to talk to--my initial appointment was almost 2 hrs cause she really does go through a full history then the acupuncture session! I also am not one to just sit and do nothing, so it was a very weird feeling, but I figured, if this can help, 45 minutes of just laying down has to be worth it, right? Maybe i'll even end up liking it. The room smelled really good and it was very relaxing. I'm going back tomorrow! I will also say that I have been naturally inclined to really put faith in the medicine of all of this IVF stuff, but after our failed cycle, I started looking into these alternatives and am trying to be more open minded about these alternative methods!

My facility (RMANJ) offers laser acupuncture before and after transfer. I did it, but it was a weird feeling because it really was just a little laser 2 minutes before and 2 minutes after.

I cant believe you went wheat and dairy free and no drinking. I am very impressed! Dara suggested I try adjusting to gluten free and dairy free as well. So, I have been trying! it's definitely tough though esp this time of year. I have also started taking CoQ10 and DHEA per my RE's recommendation. I did my loss panel at RMANJ I expect to hear back maybe Monday? I will message you with the feedback from my RE after I get it. Feel free to message me if you want any other deets I have not included here!

oxinfree · December 2015

Amazing @NicWalker10 - yes... dairy and wheat free is tough, but for me is wasn't so much a dietary idea, but rather necessity. Docs think I'm celiac (or highly gluten intolerant) even though bloodwork came back neg. They wanted to do a scope but I really didn't want to so they said if I don't do the scope I have to act as if I have it, so that's what I'm doing and I feel soooooo much better. First month is insanely hard, and it took a few 'falling off the wagon' before really being wheat free but I can tell my body is thankful for it in the end. The dairy is just a no brainer too as I get really sick so that's been since I was quite young. Though I won't lie... a very small portion of cheese here or there keeps me sane regardless of how sick I feel haha.

I'm definitely going to give the acupuncture another try. You've motivated me to get back at it. I also keep hearing about CoQ10 and DHEA so need to do that asap. I just feel like I take so much its tiresome, but all worth it hopefully in the end I guess. I've just been at this so long now it feels like a lost cause, but I know I need a more positive attitude entering our next IVF so better start acting like it!!

Please do message me about your results. Would love to stay in contact!

NicWalker10 · December 2015

@oxinfree - so far, my immunological panel is negative. Still waiting on lupus test results. BUT, I spoke with the nurse last week and she said they do not test for the killer attack cells, because as a practice they do not do it. I don't know why and didn't get the basis of it, but I was pretty disappointed that they don't include what I would consider a "full panel".

I have a saline Sono next week.

How are you doing? what have you decided for your next course of action?

susykat77 · December 2015

***bfp and loss mentioned***

The cycle that I ended up pregnant I was on 5mg of prednisone. I have a positive ANA panel and so far I have been diagnosed as unspecified connective tissue disorder - meaning I don't have enough of the symptoms for one immunologic disorder so that diagnosis is the generic one until I develop further symptoms (lupus is suspected). The other thing that I did different in my BFP cycle is I went on a strict auto-immune protocol diet - https://www.thepaleomom.com/autoimmunity/the-autoimmune-protocol Unfortunately I ended up with a missed miscarriage BUT I feel very strongly that the diet as well as the prednisone played a huge part in my BFP.

oxinfree · December 2015

@susykat77 - diet does play such a role for us with immune issues, I agree. Although I haven't had a panel, I am getting tested for Killer attack cells and will go from there... Thanks for sharing your experience!

@NicWalker10 - that's ridiculous! So now are you planning on going and getting that test separately? What's the plan?

For me I just did my serum AMH test and am waiting until January for biopsy and SHG. I'll probably go do my Killer attack cell test in Jan too. Holidays are just busy, and have some other things to wrap up before the new year so not trying to rush anything. Once the clinic reopens in the New Year we'll be going full force! Hoping to cycle Feb or March... fingers crossed!

I'd like to try Intralipids (will combine with healthy diet - strict no wheat.dairy.eggs... might check out/try the diet @susykat77 mentioned). But if my biopsy comes back and it looks like the issue is one of lining, and my killer attack cells aren't elevated, then obviously a different approach will be needed.

All up in the air!

NicWalker10 · December 2015

Hi @oxinfree I'm not sure; my RE is familiarized with my allergies and that in combination with the rest of my health profile (just did my saline sono and finished all of the loss panel bloodwork--just waiting for Lupus test results to come back plus Karyotyping) and he thinks that we should give it another go of IVF if the karyotyping comes back normal (still waiting on that too!) . I'm hoping that maybe the second round, with med adjustments the addition of egg quality enhancing supplements and foods plus acupuncture will help get us to a successful second round. My acupuncturist also had a lot of good feedback for me on my current RE and since she see's so many women doing IVF with so many different practices, that made me feel a little bit better.

So, I am set to start estrace 12/26, and we will be embarking on the fun filled 8-10 days of stimulation shots probably around the second or third week of January.

What did you decide on the acupuncture front? We will both have lots of activity in January--keep me posted on how everything goes!! Hoping 2016 is your lucky year!!!

oxinfree · December 2015

I started up at YinOva just over a week agao @NicWalker10 - seeing Amanda Silver who is FANTASTIC... love her! It was definitely better this time around. I'm embracing it!

Exciting that you're getting going. So close now! I'm also doing a saline sono in Jan (at the same time as my biopsy and trial transfer). Were you sore after at all? Bloated? I think in combination with the biopsy I'll be sore so a bit nervous.

NicWalker10 · December 2015

@oxinfree oh good I'm so glad you like YinOva and Amanda!! it sounds like it is a better experience for you so far this time which is great. We may have been there at the same time! hahaha I felt completely fine after the saline sono--zero soreness and no bloating. I was prescribed an antibiotic for the day before, the day after and the day of the sono. Hopefully you will feel no pain and it will be quick! the sono took about 5 minutes total. It was a pleasant surprise. My meds come today for the January cycle; getting excited and feeling nervous about how it will go. I'm used to the shots so no anxiety about that--it's more the results each step of the way that already have me on edge!

oxinfree · December 2015

@NicWalker10 - She's awesome! Funny how we can chat on here and potentially walk past each other on the streets

Good news about the saline sono. I was worried because I'm having biopsy and trial transfer all at the same time that it would all compound into me feeling beyond awful after. I'm sure I won't feel great, but gives me hope it may not be as bad as I'm anticipating! Exciting that your meds arrived. And I follow you on the nervousness. We haven't even started planning our cycle and I'm already worried about stimming. Again, like you, not for the needle anxiety, but for the response side of things. Last time I didn't respond great... though my hubby is all worried about losing his job (very long story) and if that happens, this will all come to a halt. blegh. I don't even wanna think about it yet. I'll think about YOUR cycle instead, haha. And I'm super hopeful for you. When is day 1 anticipated to be?

NicWalker10 · January 2016

@oxinfree happy new year! sorry I never responded. Got caught up in the holiday rush! Starting stim cycle tomorrow....here we go!

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