grandparents want to help?

PetitNightingale · October 2015

First: I am really sorry to post. Please don't flame me. But the ladies on here have a way of not sugar coating things that seems to sink into my skull better than the "what do you think is best" approach that people in real life take.

I've lurked on a lot of threads where people have been called out for rudeness and lack of etiquette to their friends and family, especially in regards to baby showers and offers of help for the baby. And I'm really struggling with the issue of whether or not it would be a good idea for me (or any single mother with a complicated relationship with her baby's father) to accept money, gifts etc. from said father or his family.

Short version: my baby's father's parents have reached out to me. They have basically said they plan on acknowledging their grandchild (pending a paternity test) and want to help me in any way possible. I've met these people once and they seemed nice enough. But I don't know if I can trust their intentions considering their son is a basket of crazy. They have asked me to send them a list of ANYTHING that I need and they will get it for me. They have even offered to pay my rent in a better neighborhood (they have hinted they want me to move back to their area). These people are loaded, they can afford it but I don't want to be taking advantage of anybody here. I also don't know if I would be putting myself in a bad position legally. Honestly, my heart leapt at the offer of help but I don't know if it's really a good idea. I don't object to letting them be a part of my son's life. They can totally do that. I am due in two weeks, it would a huge relief to know my child will have someone in his life other than me who loves him.

I do definitely plan on discussing this with the legal counsel at the center I'm working with but I don't see them until later this week and in the mean time, should I even be accepting the grandparents' phone calls? I really don't want to be rude here but I also don't want to be stupid. They originally believed their son when he told them I was a scheming whore and though I can't blame them for that, I am hesitant to trust them. The advice of "Don't indulge these people" seems to conflict with the advice of "It isn't about you, it is about what is best for your baby." So I'm truly torn here.

Please and thank you in advance for the advice.

rachswi · October 2015

The parents can be a gem even when their kid is worth less than dirt. I recall a post a while ago about a grandparent who wanted to be involved in the baby's life even though their son (child's father) wanted nothing to do with the baby.

I understand your worries about not wanting to come across as a gold digger or taking advantage of them. Would you be able to have that conversation with his parents - tell them how grateful you are of their generosity but that you want to be careful to not come across as taking advantage of them. Maybe come with your list of needs and talk with them about which of the needs they would be willing to fulfill (making it clear they don't need to feel like they should buy everything for you).

Honestly, I don't know if I would take them up on the rent, though... that's a little more of something they'd potentially be able to hold over your head and try to use against you (hopefully they wouldn't, but gifts can be returned to them - months of rent cannot be returned as easily).

lakesideknitter · October 2015

I agree with @rachswi. First, decide (along with your legal counsel) what you think is appropriate for them to help with, then have a conversation with them about it. I think it's great that they want to be a part of your LO's life, but you need to make sure you are comfortable and that there are clear boundaries set.
IMO, them paying your rent is absolutely ridiculous, whether they can afford it or not. In addition, their financial help should not stand as a substitute for child support, which you should make clear from the get-go. Their son is responsible for that, whether they end up paying it for him or not, and it needs to be legally documented.

grapesoda1111 · October 2015

I also agree with PPs. Good luck.

Eta: sounds like his parents are really nice. I hope they pull through for you and any help you need. Make that list, and maybe they can help babysit when needed.
Eta2: I mean nice now, not before.

modanz1 · October 2015

Someone jump in and correct me if I am wrong but I don't think the grandparents helping you out by buying you things you might need would put you in any legal bind. The only scenario I can think of would be if you got the baby taken away from you by the courts, the father didn't or couldn't care for the baby and his parents fought for custody. But them giving you cash, baby gear and even paying your rent does not entitle them to custody or anything. I am not sure about other grandparent's rights (probably a state by state matter). I understand what you are saying about not wanting to trust them, but I don't know what they could do to screw you over if you are accepting help from them. I would probably caution you to stay away from allowing them to pay your rent as that could potentially be a problem. For instance, if down the road they stop paying it, you would be stuck with a bill you can't pay, having to move quickly and potentially damaging your credit. But if they want to buy you car seats and cribs, let them.

rachswi · October 2015

Here's the post I was talking about where it's from the grandma's perspective of wanting to help out. May help you see where the grandparents could be coming from:

https://forums.thebump.com/discussion/12631470/holy-crap-grandma-nbr

logarithm3 · October 2015

That is extremely generous of them considering what you told us about the father's behaviour!

It is great to hear that they want to be in baby's life and participate in his wellbeing as I understand that your parents may be a little more distant. You need all the support you can get, not necessarily financially, but having people there who care about baby and will be there in case you really need anything.

I can't give any advice from a legal perspective but I would definitely not keep them from seeing their grandchild. As I said, I think you need the moral support more than any of the things they can buy for him. If they are sincere in their offer, I would keep that channel open!

Good luck with everything!

tugskenyonkel+1 · October 2015

I would be very careful with this. I personally wouldn't do anything without first having set boundaries legally and in writing. I've never had good luck with an ex's family truly wanting to do right by my child. They have always had a motive. Once you start letting them around your child you really can't back out if things don't go as planned. I also would not allow my child to be in their care without you being present as this poses a hazard to your custody. In the state I live in if paternity is acknowledged without having a COURT ORDERED custody arrangement set in place the other parent can basically run off with the child if you aren't there and its simply a civil matter. There is basically nothing the police could do to get LO back in the event he took them from his parents house. Not trying to scare you. Just letting you know how it is where I live.

Ceridwen77 · October 2015

I'd say absolutely not to paying for your rent. I also wouldn't go listing out a bunch of stuff that I need as it's almost setting an expectation of what you want them to buy. If you have a registry, share that with them. That way they can be the decision makers on what to buy and it's not you telling them what to buy.

The most important thing is to allow them into the baby's life if you and they are willing. Grandparents are irreplaceable and that will be more meaningful than any gift or rent payment.

VexedMommy · October 2015

I am glad that they are willing to be in your child's life and would like to help you out. PP's have had great advice. My suggestion is not to accept ongoing payments from them for things (rent, car, daycare, extracurriculars) that would leave you in a lurch if they stopped paying for whatever reason. Make sure to disclose monetary gifts on your taxes and any legal documents as that could be used by their son to paint you as fraudulent in reporting income. (Especially important when it comes time to determine child support.) Other than that, I'd be happy to allow them to have a relationship (on terms you decide) with your child.

oliarnmom1517 · October 2015

VexedMommy said:
I am glad that they are willing to be in your child's life and would like to help you out. PP's have had great advice. My suggestion is not to accept ongoing payments from them for things (rent, car, daycare, extracurriculars) that would leave you in a lurch if they stopped paying for whatever reason. Make sure to disclose monetary gifts on your taxes and any legal documents as that could be used by their son to paint you as fraudulent in reporting income. (Especially important when it comes time to determine child support.) Other than that, I'd be happy to allow them to have a relationship (on terms you decide) with your child.

This.. And other PPs have given you excellent advice.. I agree that you shouldn't except payments for anything like rent or anything along those lines but if they want to be apart of the babies life I say let them.. Even though their son may be a basket case they seem to want to support you in anyway that they can.. I wouldn't push it away if they really want to help get you some small things and see their grandbaby.. Wishing you the best of luck!!

livvielove15 · October 2015

lakesideknitter said:
I agree with @rachswi. First, decide (along with your legal counsel) what you think is appropriate for them to help with, then have a conversation with them about it. I think it's great that they want to be a part of your LO's life, but you need to make sure you are comfortable and that there are clear boundaries set.
IMO, them paying your rent is absolutely ridiculous, whether they can afford it or not. In addition, their financial help should not stand as a substitute for child support, which you should make clear from the get-go. Their son is responsible for that, whether they end up paying it for him or not, and it needs to be legally documented.

Yes! I would say boundaries are absolutely necessary & they need to be clear.

atuminaro · October 2015

I'm in a similar situation. I am not with the child's father because he is a crazy. I am close with his family tho, they have bought me everything I need for my baby and I had a sit down with his parents and told them my worries if I let the baby around them that they wouldn't try to pull any bs. They completely understood where I was coming from and made me feel so much better know I could trust them . I think you need to talk to them for sure and accept that they are trying to help you . Nothing bad could come out of them trying to buy you essential things for your baby. Good luck!!!

PetitNightingale · October 2015

Thank you everyone, this is really great advice! I am going to read the grandparent thread also. I think it's a definite no to the ongoing payments or monetary gifts. I will allow them to buy baby related gear like strollers etc. And I really want my child to have as close to a normal family as possible because I truly do feel terrible that I don't have two parent home to give him.

They do seem like really nice people but my biggest fear is that their son will show up and try to take off with my son. If he chooses to file for custody, I'm worried that any support I take from his parents could aid his case-- "oh look, what a nice supportive family he has, maybe we should give him partial custody" despite the fact that is a loon.

tugskenyonkel+1 · October 2015

PetitNightingale said:
Thank you everyone, this is really great advice! I am going to read the grandparent thread also. I think it's a definite no to the ongoing payments or monetary gifts. I will allow them to buy baby related gear like strollers etc. And I really want my child to have as close to a normal family as possible because I truly do feel terrible that I don't have two parent home to give him.

They do seem like really nice people but my biggest fear is that their son will show up and try to take off with my son. If he chooses to file for custody, I'm worried that any support I take from his parents could aid his case-- "oh look, what a nice supportive family he has, maybe we should give him partial custody" despite the fact that is a loon.

This is exactly why I would have legal counsel before doing anything. They will know how this should be handled.

VexedMommy · October 2015

PetitNightingale said:

Thank you everyone, this is really great advice! I am going to read the grandparent thread also. I think it's a definite no to the ongoing payments or monetary gifts. I will allow them to buy baby related gear like strollers etc. And I really want my child to have as close to a normal family as possible because I truly do feel terrible that I don't have two parent home to give him.

They do seem like really nice people but my biggest fear is that their son will show up and try to take off with my son. If he chooses to file for custody, I'm worried that any support I take from his parents could aid his case-- "oh look, what a nice supportive family he has, maybe we should give him partial custody" despite the fact that is a loon.

On the other hand, refusing to act in a manner that shows you're trying to work with him and his family (even if he is a loon) could reflect badly on you. If the child's father was not demonstrably abusive to you or anyone else and can not be proven to be an obvious detriment to the child (pending serious drug charges, a sex offender, a violent felon, mentally incompetent, etc.) he is likely to get partial custody should he wish it. However, he can not keep the child from you unless you fall into one of the categories above either. On the chance that he DOES try to get partial/shared custody you will definitely need that relationship with his family. Establishing it outside of the father makes it more likely that they would come to you with concerns or to moderate their sons behavior around the child.

jabbottscott · October 2015

Yeah I would tread very carefully here. You don't know these people. They could totally angle for grandparent rights/custody at any time and the more they have contributed financially/support-wise and the more time they have spent caring for the child the more of a case they would have. Plus as PPs have said the baby's father could take him anytime and you'd be up s**t creek without an actual custody order on file with the courts. Trust me I know...been there done that. Not even Child Protective Services can help you in that situation because he is the other parent. I would for sure let them visit the child and bring gifts etc. That way they can build trust with you gradually and at a pace you are comfortable with. As for any living expenses absolutely not. You need to file with the Department of Child Support Services. They will go after the dad, garnish his wages if necessary etc. and get you the child support he will owe so that you needn't deal with him directly. I think it's very nice that they are willing to help pay for things. I think the best way is share your registry with them. You really don't actually NEED that much for a baby. So much of the "must haves" are really just luxury items...it's not hard to be frugal with baby stuff people literally give it away. So as tempting as it might be to accept lots of assistance from them (especially for shinies) tread carefully until you have custody legally established in your name and a visitation schedule on file with the court. My firstborn's dad and I were never married and I left him while I was pregnant. He sued me for custody when our son was 5 weeks old and it was an absolute nightmare. I went through a lot of pain and anxiety because I was naive and there was so much I didn't know about father's rights/grandparent's rights etc. Not to mention how entitled other people can feel about your own child...that in and of itself is a huge wake up call. Anyways I hope I haven't scared you too much and you are welcome to pm me if you want to chat anytime. Hope everything goes well for you and good luck!!! Stay strong and smart mama and please keep us posted.

Cook3133 · October 2015

Being the grandma to be I have a different opinion. My SS is a piece of crap. I WANT to be apart of my granddaughters life. My kids are her uncles, that's never going to change. Don't punish me because of his mistakes, we did not raise him that way.

We don't know much about baby momma and She only knows us through him, we met twice when they were dating. He has told her so many lies it's crazy. Luckily she is taking her child's feelings into consideration. She has every right to not let us be a part of the Kidz life yet she is. Personally I would be pissed if my mom wouldn't allow my grandparents to be a part of my life because she didn't like dear old dad.

You're also going to have to deal with the fact that he may be a part of your child's life. You got a son because of his sperm! You chose to have sex with him and you made each other parents. You don't get to chose if he gets to be a part of your sons life because you don't like him. It is way easier to learn to be amblicible when it comes to the father than fight. Like mentioned it may help you way more than hurt you to have a relationship with the grandparents.

But ground rules do need to be made. You have to get custody in place legaly or the baby Daddy does have every right to take the child.

Just because grandparents want to be involved doesn't automaticly mean they have alternative motives in place. An easy way to let them buy stuff is to send them a link to your registery. You shouldn't take money for housing or bills IMO. I told my granddaughters mother to pay her bills first if she needs help with baby that's where we will help.

ASalton1 · October 2015

Honestly I would accept their love and support for your LO but I wouldn't accept their money (gifts for the baby are okay, but not rent, living expenses, etc.) I would wait and see how the relationship grows and develops after your LO is born.

The only reason I hesitate is because I had a friend who lost custody of her son to her ex's parents because they were able to "provide" more to the child. It started off as innocent giving of money to "help" her out, but turned into a tug-of-war over the child. (She still has visitation).

I know this isn't common but just be careful whatever you decide to do.

joforyoga · October 2015

I would be careful here. They should be allowed to see the child sure. If it were me I would plan a visit or have them over every once in a while but they wouldn't be babysitting without out me simply based on the fact that you don't know them very well. Also, what is the situation going to be with the father? If he has visitation and will be spending time with his child then I would leve it up to him to take the baby to see his side of the family.
Legally I don't have my advice. I think material gifts are fine but Inwould not be taking rent or relocating to a better area based on thier financial assistance! It would make me feel like Inowe them more time with the baby or that it could be aid that the babys lifestyle is now dependant on them if it came down to legal visitation or custody. I do know someone who has been in a custody battle for a few years with the parents of the baby's father so it can happen.

ewhitledge · October 2015

My brother was in a similar situation so we all sat down with counsel on day one. What we were told was without a court ordered support document on file, everything he gives her is considered a gift and would have no legal bearing in a custody case. He pays her every two weeks with the understanding that it is a 'gift'of support.

WeirdAlice · October 2015

Think of it this way, this is their family as well and just because the dad is a POS doesn't mean the parents are, I personally believe that grandparents should have rights to visit their grandchild.
I do not think in any way should you take the rent money because that should be your responsibility, and you should set limits on what they can buy for the baby. I wouldn't give them a list of everything you need but maybe mark a few things down and say sure if you would like here are a few items that would be helpful. But don't go making like a Christmas list of every little thing you want or need since it is not their child to support in full.

Grandparents spoil their grandchildren (in most cases) they love to buy things and give them tons and tons of attention which is okay. Let them do things they want for the baby but make sure you are the one supporting it's needs Regaurdless of what they provide for you.

lakesideknitter · October 2015

ewhitledge said:
My brother was in a similar situation so we all sat down with counsel on day one. What we were told was without a court ordered support document on file, everything he gives her is considered a gift and would have no legal bearing in a custody case. He pays her every two weeks with the understanding that it is a 'gift'of support.

Would you mind sharing the benefits of not having a formal court ordered support agreement on file? I understand the obvious benefits to the non-custodial parent, but are there any benefits for the custodial parent other than avoiding paperwork and court time?

PetitNightingale · October 2015

I would also like to know that. I've been told since day one that I absolutely had to have father's name on the birth certificate and make sure I have it legally documented that he has to pay me child support, though it almost feels like a waste because I know he's just going to go running to mommy and daddy for the money, despite the fact that he actually makes way more money than most people our age.

I don't have visitation set up yet. LO's father is so unstable I don't know from one day to the other if he wants it. He's just all over the place so I'll have to cross that bridge when I get to it. But I did promise to allow his parents to visit when the baby is born b/c I agree with most people that I should give my baby a chance to have grandparents.

Ashleyw · October 2015

PetitNightingale said:
I would also like to know that. I've been told since day one that I absolutely had to have father's name on the birth certificate and make sure I have it legally documented that he has to pay me child support, though it almost feels like a waste because I know he's just going to go running to mommy and daddy for the money, despite the fact that he actually makes way more money than most people our age.

I don't have visitation set up yet. LO's father is so unstable I don't know from one day to the other if he wants it. He's just all over the place so I'll have to cross that bridge when I get to it. But I did promise to allow his parents to visit when the baby is born b/c I agree with most people that I should give my baby a chance to have grandparents.

I think you should absolutely allow the grandparents to come to you to visit. If I were you, I would also not ever leave the baby in their care alone since you don't know them. I think once you have a legal custody agreement it will make things easier. Good luck! I hope it all works out for you and your LO

urby87 · October 2015

PetitNightingale said:

I would also like to know that. I've been told since day one that I absolutely had to have father's name on the birth certificate and make sure I have it legally documented that he has to pay me child support, though it almost feels like a waste because I know he's just going to go running to mommy and daddy for the money, despite the fact that he actually makes way more money than most people our age.

I don't have visitation set up yet. LO's father is so unstable I don't know from one day to the other if he wants it. He's just all over the place so I'll have to cross that bridge when I get to it. But I did promise to allow his parents to visit when the baby is born b/c I agree with most people that I should give my baby a chance to have grandparents.

I know it varies from one area to the next, but I highly doubt Child Support Recovery in your area considers the grandparents' incomes when determining what is owed in support. The support system in my state, for example, is based on the incomes of the child's parents, nobody else's. Each parent provides proof of income, and they determine the amount owed based on that, how often each parent has the child, and probably a few other factors. My husband's paychecks are garnished, and that goes directly to an account in his ex's name. Nobody else can add funds, and nobody else can use them. Not parents, not spouses, nobody. It's strictly between him and his ex, as it should be.

ajmcarroll · October 2015

Most states have a child support obligation worksheet calculator found online.

savyjohn1 · November 2015

You need to go to the courts before baby is born to start to get this figured out, especially if dad is "unstable". Do you want him to come for a visit and walk out with your baby, and have no recourse? Protect yourself, protect your baby. Sorry to be blunt, but as a mom I would scratch someone's eyes out if they tried to take my baby and I had no legal right to do anything about it. Do what you need to do, and don't worry about being nice. Time has come to be an adult and take adult action to protect yourself.

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