Did you see this "controversy" over baby names on The View? — The Bump
Baby Names

Did you see this "controversy" over baby names on The View?

dande2129dande2129
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edited October 2015 in Baby Names
I don't watch The View, but I did see a band of trash-talkers on Twitter over Raven-Symone saying that she wouldn't hire someone with the name, "Watermelondrea." The ridiculous name came from what I think was a satirical "ghetto" name list, which, admittedly, is discriminatory and racist in and of itself. What I don't understand, is why people are so upset about this. Do folks who give their children you-neek names expect the workforce to take them seriously as adults?


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Re: Did you see this "controversy" over baby names on The View?

  • Yeah I saw that. Sort of ironic that Raven feels the way she does, given her own name...

    And yes, those parents either do expect that the workforce takes them seriously, don't realize the influence names have, or simply don't care.

    In fact, I read an article a day or so ago about an experiment where people were asked to give their impressions based on a person's name. It showed that a typically "black" name like Jamal solicited the impression that it was a large and violent black male. There are many prejudices attached to names, even when they're entirely common. It is an unfortunate part of life.
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  • In the article I read, the controversy seemed to stem from the fact that it was pretty hypocritical for her to say that. You know, someone who has a hyphenated name and a made up spelling for one part of it.
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  • Yeah I saw that. Sort of ironic that Raven feels the way she does, given her own name...

    And yes, those parents either do expect that the workforce takes them seriously, don't realize the influence names have, or simply don't care.

    In fact, I read an article a day or so ago about an experiment where people were asked to give their impressions based on a person's name. It showed that a typically "black" name like Jamal solicited the impression that it was a large and violent black male. There are many prejudices attached to names, even when they're entirely common. It is an unfortunate part of life.

    There was actually a story I heard on NPR about a white man named Jamal that found that he was actually interviewed for a job at a racially diverse school because they assumed he was black because of his name. It was very interesting.
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  • While I agree that made up names will make it more difficult for folks to find employment, her example was racist and stereotypical and totally unnecessary.

    Not to mention she looks like a rooster with that hair, and might not have much luck finding employment out of the entertainment industry, herself.  

    She grates on my nerves.. she has said several racially insensitive things in the past.

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  • Raven saying those things amplified how distasteful and ignorant her comments were. She is constantly saying something hateful about people of color. She's like the poster child for internalized racism. It's sad and fascinating.

    What frustrates me more is that often times people associate these made up names only with people of color. Other ethnic and racial groups have made up names. Jamal isn't a made up name. Also, when people assume because it is a sterotypical "Black" name it is African. Just no. Do research, read some books, Google it on a baby name board... Idk how people are still so inept in the information age.
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  • What I don't understand, is why people are so upset about this. Do folks who give their children you-neek names expect the workforce to take them seriously as adults?

    People are upset because even though we know discrimination happens, it's not right and Raven just boldly stated that she would discriminate. That's weird coming from her and she is gay and gays are fighting against discrimination.

    Many are also upset because Raven is a black woman and she should know better. She should know the history of why many black parents give their children the names they do.
    Blacks have already had their original names taken from them and were given names and some parents choose to give cultural names and refuse to give their black kids mainstream names due to the past.
    There are Irish names, Hispanic names, Italian names, African names......... And those names aren't frowned upon, but African American names are a joke to many and some parents don't give a shit and its important to them to give their children cultural names. The thing about African American names in comparison to other ethnic names is that they are fairly new and I think we all know why.
    I could go on forever on this topic, but this is the BN board and I want to keep things light, but Raven can kiss my ass.
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  • nurse714 said:

    What I don't understand, is why people are so upset about this. Do folks who give their children you-neek names expect the workforce to take them seriously as adults?

    People are upset because even though we know discrimination happens, it's not right and Raven just boldly stated that she would discriminate. That's weird coming from her and she is gay and gays are fighting against discrimination.

    Many are also upset because Raven is a black woman and she should know better. She should know the history of why many black parents give their children the names they do.
    Blacks have already had their original names taken from them and were given names and some parents choose to give cultural names and refuse to give their black kids mainstream names due to the past.
    There are Irish names, Hispanic names, Italian names, African names......... And those names aren't frowned upon, but African American names are a joke to many and some parents don't give a shit and its important to them to give their children cultural names. The thing about African American names in comparison to other ethnic names is that they are fairly new and I think we all know why.
    I could go on forever on this topic, but this is the BN board and I want to keep things light, but Raven can kiss my ass.

    All this. Yes.
    However, people's lack of understanding, much less compassion, as to ethnic or unique names,in general, is an issue.
    People simply feel more comfortable with English-European, usually Christian-based names. Their etymology is based on sounds we are used to hearing.
    I also read this article awhile back and it has some great points.
    https://gadflyonthewallblog.wordpress.com/2015/09/06/white-people-need-to-stop-snickering-at-black-names/
    I read a few articles about the Raven thing because I hadn't seen or heard of it until this thread.
    One thing I read that stuck with me is the hypocrisy of her belittling 'made-up' names when she herself has a 'you-neek' name. The article pointedly stated that this was another way to create levels of class and acceptance;
    "In one such column, "Raven-Symoné Rips Black Names, But Forgot About Her Own," EBONY senior writer Jamilah Lemieux pointed out the implications of dehumanizing people based on their name.


    "The whole world is trying to tear us apart and you want to discount the value of some other black person because she, TOO, has a black name, Raven hyphen alternate spelling of 'Simone'? You got the nerve," Lemieux wrote.
    We can't have a hierarchy of black names. You are either with your family, or you aren't. Being named 'Naima' or 'Aaliyah,' Asha,' or 'Imani,' doesn't make you better or more sophisticated or more African than someone named 'Shatasha,' and the people who are dumping Shatasha's resume in the trash because of her name are happy to throw yours in there too, boo."
    As @ChiccoBeanz pointed out, other cultures also have 'made up' names. Also, simply because an unheard-of name is attached to a black person does not make it African.
    However, names associated with black people are the names generally the names generally ridiculed.
    I'll take a page out of @nurse714 's book though and pause this here.
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  • Raven saying those things amplified how distasteful and ignorant her comments were. She is constantly saying something hateful about people of color. She's like the poster child for internalized racism. It's sad and fascinating.

    What frustrates me more is that often times people associate these made up names only with people of color. Other ethnic and racial groups have made up names. Jamal isn't a made up name. Also, when people assume because it is a sterotypical "Black" name it is African. Just no. Do research, read some books, Google it on a baby name board... Idk how people are still so inept in the information age.

    I realize Jamal isn't a made up name and that other races use the name Jamal. I only mentioned it because that was a name used in the actual experiment about first-impression name prejudices. A name doesn't even have to be made up for people to have poor associations with it. Really ignorant of course.
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  • Because of my name, people often assume I'm African American before meeting me. I don't really know why; I just have a "you-neek" name that IMO isn't really associated with any one particular race. But more than one person has been visibly surprised upon meeting for the first time, and many have told me they expected me to "look different." I usually ask what they mean by that (even though I already know), and one guy actually said, "um... no offense... but I thought you were gonna be, you know, a SISTA." 

    Dude. Racist.
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  • Disclaimer #1- I didn't read the linked article, so idk how attached to "black names" the conversation was compared to just made up names.
    Disclaimer #2 - My high school class was 135 people with 2 black kids (brothers adopted by white parents, one from Texas, one from Ethiopia).

    Maybe it's because of the lack of diversity around me growing up, but when I hear these kinds of names, my mind doesn't go to "black" it goes to typically low education connected to generational poverty. It doesn't really make it better to think social class v race because both are stereotypes people still have to climb out from, but the fact is, people make quick assumptions based on a lot of things. If you give your child a name like "Watermelondrea", you're forcing their resume to be one step better than Jamal/Aaliyah, who already often (and wrongly) has to work harder than John/Jane, to get the same level of respect.

    To clarify (and TL:DR) I don't think this is a good thing whether the assumption is racist or classist; but unfortunately, it happens and it's a valid thing to consider while picking a name.
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  • Raven saying those things amplified how distasteful and ignorant her comments were. She is constantly saying something hateful about people of color. She's like the poster child for internalized racism. It's sad and fascinating. What frustrates me more is that often times people associate these made up names only with people of color. Other ethnic and racial groups have made up names. Jamal isn't a made up name. Also, when people assume because it is a sterotypical "Black" name it is African. Just no. Do research, read some books, Google it on a baby name board... Idk how people are still so inept in the information age.
    I realize Jamal isn't a made up name and that other races use the name Jamal. I only mentioned it because that was a name used in the actual experiment about first-impression name prejudices. A name doesn't even have to be made up for people to have poor associations with it. Really ignorant of course.
    Oh that wasn't in reference to you. I had just seen the name "Jamal" and just said it wasn't a made up name since people keep thinking that it is. Sorry about that.
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  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/02/jose-joe-job-discrimination_n_5753880.html

    It's a sad truth about the world we live in. Even a legitimate name can hold a person back just because of stereotypes.

    I've also read stories online of women using only the first letter of their name on a resume, rather than their full, obviously female name. When employers don't know that the applicant is a female, she ends up getting more call-backs.
  • mrstrax said:

    Disclaimer #1- I didn't read the linked article, so idk how attached to "black names" the conversation was compared to just made up names.
    Disclaimer #2 - My high school class was 135 people with 2 black kids (brothers adopted by white parents, one from Texas, one from Ethiopia).

    Maybe it's because of the lack of diversity around me growing up, but when I hear these kinds of names, my mind doesn't go to "black" it goes to typically low education connected to generational poverty. It doesn't really make it better to think social class v race because both are stereotypes people still have to climb out from, but the fact is, people make quick assumptions based on a lot of things. If you give your child a name like "Watermelondrea", you're forcing their resume to be one step better than Jamal/Aaliyah, who already often (and wrongly) has to work harder than John/Jane, to get the same level of respect.

    To clarify (and TL:DR) I don't think this is a good thing whether the assumption is racist or classist; but unfortunately, it happens and it's a valid thing to consider while picking a name.

    This is what I think too. Quite honestly, all else equal, I'd be more likely to call in for an interview someone with a real but traditionally African American name (like Jamal or Aaliyah) than I would be to call in someone with a completely made up or misspelled name (like Brinleigh or Jaxxon).

    Is it right at all to stereotype based on name? Nope. But that's life. The reality is that in a professional setting you're pretty unlikely to come across made up names. Is that because people with made up names come from a situation where generational poverty exists, and as a result they did not have the access to higher education necessary to wind up in a professional career? Or is it because their resumes are just passed over in favor of resumes from James or Andrea?

    That argument comes up on here all the time...someone posts about the insanely spelled you neek name they want to use, posters warn them that using a name like that will cause their child to be discriminated against, the poster freaks out. Rather, rinse, repeat. It's not right, but it's true. I want my kid to have every opportunity in her life without fear that a decision I made for her the day she was born will close doors for her. That is far more important than her being the only person in her class with her name.
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  • @EstrogenFest how do you pronounce Siobhan? I'm curious.
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  • @EstrogenFest how do you pronounce Siobhan? I'm curious.

    It's probably Shi-Vahn. I've also met a Seonaid, pronounced Shawna.
  • @EstrogenFest how do you pronounce Siobhan? I'm curious.
    It's probably Shi-Vahn. I've also met a Seonaid, pronounced Shawna.
    Ahh thank you. "Seonaid" pronounced as Shawna? Interesting. How does that work? (That wasn't literally directed at you, just a question I have now)

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  • @EstrogenFest how do you pronounce Siobhan? I'm curious.
    It's probably Shi-Vahn. I've also met a Seonaid, pronounced Shawna.
    Ahh thank you. "Seonaid" pronounced as Shawna? Interesting. How does that work? (That wasn't literally directed at you, just a question I have now)


    It's not one I've heard before, but my first guess is Gaelic.
  • ambercakes92ambercakes92
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    edited October 2015





    @EstrogenFest how do you pronounce Siobhan? I'm curious.

    It's probably Shi-Vahn. I've also met a Seonaid, pronounced Shawna.

    Ahh thank you. "Seonaid" pronounced as Shawna? Interesting. How does that work? (That wasn't literally directed at you, just a question I have now)





    It's not one I've heard before, but my first guess is Gaelic.

    -----

    Yes, they are Irish/Gaelic. If you ever see a name with those origins, it's wise to look up the pronunciation because it's likely we will say them wrong! The name Brighid, for example Is credited for the anglicized name Bridget but that would be if you pronounced it incorrectly as it appears to be spelled. It is pronounced "breej".
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  • I have to admit, I chuckled to myself when I read that someone used Jamal as an example of an ethnic name. I have met two and they were both Caucasian.
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  • I feel like there is a difference between what is and what should be. Should a name disqualify someone from a fair shot at a job? absolutely not. But the reality is that it does. I would like to think that by the time my kids graduate from college, things will have changed, but you really never know.

    I have a feminine full name that has a masculine nickname. When I was struggling to find a job a few years ago, I took my middle name off of my resume and used my nickname and I started getting at least three times as many interviews. It completely could be a coincidence, but the only people that will really know are those who picked my resume for an interview.
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  • groovylocksgroovylocks
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    edited October 2015
    sarahgn said:
    I have to admit, I chuckled to myself when I read that someone used Jamal as an example of an ethnic name. I have met two and they were both Caucasian.

    I knew a Jamal but he pronounced it 'yamal' and was Pakistani, I think.. And that's how it's pronounced in Urdu. I knew him during childhood so that's my first association with the name. I've since met white and black jamals who pronounce the hard j. But I've always assumed the name was Urdu.
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