I don't judge anyone who chooses to drink (very lightly) during pregnancy, or anyone who chooses to abstain, but I think there should be some clarification re: the assertions in the original post. Everything I've read about the study of children of women who drank moderately during pregnancy says that they did not have a higher IQ and less aggression *because of the alcohol.* It was thought to be because those women who drank had a greater level of education, wealth, etc., not because the alcohol was like a prenatal vitamin or something.
That said, I could care less whether people have the odd drink while pregnant, but I agree that the guidelines are in place to keep things safe for the general population, including people who may not have the same definition of moderation as is actually safe.
I'm always amazed at how people try to push their less restrictive guidelines on you while pregnant. I have had a waitress preach to me on the benefits of drinking while pregnant. I've had plenty of older relatives sing the praises of not worrying about lunch meat or runny eggs or undercooked steak. I've had a friend tell me how she took Mucinex D and her baby is fine. Blah blah blah.
What is most annoying to me, is why is it a bad thing for me to abstain from something to guarantee the safety of my baby. We prayed and worked hard for this baby, with lots of tears and disappointing negative tests. I can't imagine women who struggle for years TTC and then have people cram in their face how they shouldn't be so uptight about restrictions during pregnancy. No food, medicine, drink, etc will ever replace my child, so why would I risk it?
I don't think OP was judging as much as she was just venting. I too get annoyed by all of the crap I'm told to do/not do by people who are definitely not experts, ESPECIALLY when it comes to having the occasional glass of wine, so I understand where she's coming from.
I'm always amazed at how people try to push their less restrictive guidelines on you while pregnant. I have had a waitress preach to me on the benefits of drinking while pregnant. I've had plenty of older relatives sing the praises of not worrying about lunch meat or runny eggs or undercooked steak. I've had a friend tell me how she took Mucinex D and her baby is fine. Blah blah blah.
What is most annoying to me, is why is it a bad thing for me to abstain from something to guarantee the safety of my baby. We prayed and worked hard for this baby, with lots of tears and disappointing negative tests. I can't imagine women who struggle for years TTC and then have people cram in their face how they shouldn't be so uptight about restrictions during pregnancy. No food, medicine, drink, etc will ever replace my child, so why would I risk it?
I thought I was the only one to experience this. Last week the owner of the restaurant I was at suggested I try the sandwich of the day that had Brie. I told him I wasn't supposed to eat soft cheeses because I was pregnant, and then he went on a tangent about how Americans do things "@ss backwards" and that other countries aren't so uptight and I shouldn't worry about it. I told him I was PGAL and felt more comfortable sticking to the "rules" even if they are unnecessary. In the grand scheme of things, what's denying myself certain foods for 9 months? If I feel at all uncomfortable consuming something it's simply not worth it.
That being said, I don't feel OP is trying to talk anyone into consuming alcohol, I think she feels judged and wants to defend her position. We all have the responsibility to educate ourselves and make wise decisions, and we aren't all going to come to the same conclusion. It's sad that we do often feel the need to defend ourselves; just because someone decides what's right for them doesn't mean an alternative decision is wrong.
I hope I feel comfortable enough to consume a little wine here and there during holiday celebrations, but if I don't I won't. I'll be making those types of decisions based on my research, my health care provider's advice, and my own comfort level.
Im not trying to be rude at all by saying this, but if giving up alcohol for a short period of time is this much of an issue for you, you maywant to ask yourself if you have a problem with alcohol.
Im not trying to be rude at all by saying this, but if giving up alcohol for a short period of time is this much of an issue for you, you maywant to ask yourself if you have a problem with alcohol.
Yes, but if some women have done their own research and don't think it is necessary for them to 100% abstain from alcohol, then there is no reason to give it up especially if they don't have a problem with alcohol.
See how that works? It's called looking at things from a different viewpoint. Not trying to be rude.
Im not trying to be rude at all by saying this, but if giving up alcohol for a short period of time is this much of an issue for you, you maywant to ask yourself if you have a problem with alcohol.
Thanks for bringing it all back around to prove the OP's point.
Im not trying to be rude at all by saying this, but if giving up alcohol for a short period of time is this much of an issue for you, you maywant to ask yourself if you have a problem with alcohol.
Thanks for bringing it all back around to prove the OP's point.
I have never been able to have just one glass of wine. Soo I didn't think pregnancy was a great time to retry something I've failed at on many occasions. I will get confused in my lady brains and drink the whole bottle....oh and I'm American.
Just FYI, Im in Australia and the guidelines aren't as you've stated above (though I think they have been adjusted in the past 5 or 10 years). They are now "not drinking is the safest option as there is no known 'safe' level" ie not enough/conclusive research
Im not trying to be rude at all by saying this, but if giving up alcohol for a short period of time is this much of an issue for you, you maywant to ask yourself if you have a problem with alcohol.
I'm not trying to be rude by saying this, but how about if you mind your own business and don't judge other people for making their own informed decisions, rather than just assuming they "have a problem"??
I feel like the majority of pp's on here are either not reading the thread in full or just want to hear themselves speak / see their own posts!
Claiming you are being judged while being judgy in return is just hypocritical. Make your own decisions, stand by them, stop making excuses or apologizing for them and stop expecting everyone else to follow them.
This is directed only at the moms who have clearly shamed other moms (I'd never take any risk; stop being selfish; maybe you should examine your relationship with alcohol): Try taking a step back and examining your own choices. Unless you never take unnecessary car rides, or go out in public during flu season, or eat food prepared not under your supervision, or take medications not necessary for you or baby's survival, or plan to do any of those or countless other things once baby is here, you too take unnecessary risks. And if you do any of those things solely for your own benefit, I suppose you're being pretty selfish, aren't you? And if you really plan to never take unnecessary risks with your child then good luck with issues like whether or not to sleep train and when to introduce peanuts. And mostly, good luck raising an independent and confident kid in a bubble.
I haven't seen any moms here admit to binge drinking (I'm sure there are some that do and I hope they get help.) What I have seen in moms say they drink in moderation because they think the benefit to them outweighs any potential risk to baby, or because they don't think that there are risks to baby, or because they think it benefits baby. And I've seen moms say they choose not to drink for the opposite reasons. While it's really none of my business, since you gave your opinion about everyone else, I'll say that I think they're all right because they've all made the best decision for their own family. It's not whether or not they take a drink that matters, it's whether or not they made the decision for te right reasons.
There's no perfect way to parent and if there were, none of us would achieve it. So save your high horse for moms who are actually doing proven harm to their children. Or just put it away entirely.
Because a few people have asked for sources, here are a couple of the many I looked at. If you want to read one, the one I linked is fairly easy reading and brings up many points about other studies that I think are good (mainly that most studies on drinking alcohol in pregnancy lump all alcohol consumption into the same group, comparing women who drink anywhere from 1 drink a week to 20 drinks a week to women who don't drink at all). This study doesn't particularly point it out, but in my reading of many of the 'don't drink at all' studies, they also include illegal drug use in the same box as light drinking, which obviously skews results.
I also wanted to point out, as I did in my original post, that 'I would never claim that ... a woman should be forced to consume alcohol if it is not something that she is comfortable with'. I was in no way trying to shame or judge anyone for choosing not to drink, and I recommend anyone who took it that way re-read what I wrote originally.
Lastly, and this is a personal pet peeve of mine as someone involved in scientific research for many years, scientific studies that are well conducted are very good at pointing out their own biases and correcting for them as much as possible. For a person not well versed in the specific topic to claim that 'clearly the study is bogus because only rich women drink wine' or that it is impossible to tease apart many of these issues is nearly always incorrect. There have absolutely been bad studies performed and published, but the vast majority of the time if you take the time to actually read the study you will see how they corrected for these things.
Here a just a few of the articles I read, if you copy and paste the titles to google, or google scholar, you can read some of the full text articles, and at least the abstracts for all of them (which I put under the citations).
Falgreen Eriksen,
H.-L., Mortensen, E., Kilburn, T., Underbjerg, M., Bertrand, J., Støvring, H.,
Wimberley, T., Grove, J. and Kesmodel, U. (2012), The effects of low to
moderate prenatal alcohol exposure in early pregnancy on IQ in 5-year-old
children. BJOG: An International Journal of Obstetrics & Gynaecology,
119: 1191–1200 No differences in test performance were observed
between children whose mothers reported consuming between one and four or
between five and eight drinks per week at some point during pregnancy, compared
with children of mothers who abstained. For women who reported consuming nine
or more drinks per week no differences were observed for mean differences;
however, the risks of low full-scale IQ (OR 4.6; 95% CI 1.2–18.2) and low
verbal IQ (OR 5.9; 95% CI 1.4–24.9) scores, but not low performance IQ score,
were increased. Robinson M, Oddy WH, McLean NJ,
Jacoby P, Pennell CE, de Klerk NH, Zubrick SR, Stanley FJ, Newnham JP.
Low-moderate prenatal alcohol exposure and risk to child behavioural
development: a prospective cohort study. BJOG. 2010 Aug;117(9):1139-50. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-0528.2010.02596.x/pdfIn this study we have shown that mothers who consumed light levels of
alcohol (2-6 standard drinks per week) in the first 3 months of pregnancy had
children with significantly lower total and internalizing CBCL scores over 14
years, representing more positive behavior, than non-drinkers at 3 months
gestation.These data also indicate that
the children of light to moderate drinkers (2-10 standard drinks per week) were
at a clinically meaningful lower risk of total, internalizing and externalizing
behavioural problems than the children of women who did not drink. O'Callaghan FV, O'Callaghan M, Najman
JM, Williams GM, Bor W. Prenatal alcohol exposure and attention, learning and
intellectual ability at 14 years: a prospective longitudinal study. Early Hum
Dev. 2007 Feb;83(2):115-23. For consumption of <1 glass/day in
early or late pregnancy, there was no association with any attention, learning
or cognitive outcomes.
Guidelines in the UK, the country I am most familiar with and thus able to best identify the places to look for most official positions.The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists - RCOG
updated its guidelines in February 2015, advising women not to drink alcohol
during their first trimester or while trying to conceive. It reiterated that a
rigorous check of scientific research over the past 15 years, shows there is no
clear evidence that light drinking (1-2 units once or twice a week) in the
second and third trimester does any harm to your baby.
The Royal College of Midwives - The RCM states,
"There is indeed no evidence to suggest that low levels of alcohol are
harmful to the baby after the first three months of pregnancy."
@mg137 & @enkb I feel we are kindred spirits. Amen sisters! Thank you for encouraging others to THINK for themselves and make their OWN decisions without judgement for/from others!
Ugh. Ladies, come to your own personal conclusions after reading medical studies.
During my pregnancy, I have abstained from drinking with the exception of taking a sip of my husbands cocktail while we are dining out. This weekend I went out with several couples to our local restaurant/bar. I did the usual of taking a sip of my husband's drink to get a taste. My girlfriend ripped the drink away from me. She and our other friend continued to berated me.
My husband is a Dr. who has also done research on drinking while pregnant. I have also read several articles. While I originally thought I may have a glass of wine a week, I found myself staying away from alcohol completely with the exception of a monthly sip (saving for a new house means staying in a lot).
I was absolutely ticked by my friends reaction. First, I am an adult and am able to make my own decisions. Second, taking a sip to coat my tongue will do NOTHING at all to our baby. Third, how dare you assume that I am not knowledgeable about my health and my babies health.
I after that rant I just want to say, do your own research, find your own conclusions and stop judging others. It's really not that difficult.
Hate to say, I am educated and believe I make smart decisions- I cannot say the same for all women. I have a pregnant relative who said she was just having a partial glass and ended up wasted and taking shots at the end of the night (after I hadn't seen her for a few hours). When doctors are talking to the general public, I would much rather they err on the side of caution. I would hope if a woman thinks it is wrong she would stop rather than get the ok to have a drink and decide- why not 3 more? Way too many mothers drink too much or do drugs while pregnant. If you are smart enough to research and have your acceptable amount, fine. But alcohol is ultimately poison, however you shake it.
The sad fact is, there are too many who abuse it, and even a few women are not smart enough to know the limit it is not ok. So yeah, I might judge that the pregnant girl holding a glass of wine because I am not confident they will stop when they are supposed to.
If just one less baby is born w/o a disability because the mom is told not to drink- it's a win in my book.
Ugh. Ladies, come to your own personal conclusions after reading medical studies.
During my pregnancy, I have abstained from drinking with the exception of taking a sip of my husbands cocktail while we are dining out. This weekend I went out with several couples to our local restaurant/bar. I did the usual of taking a sip of my husband's drink to get a taste. My girlfriend ripped the drink away from me. She and our other friend continued to berated me.
My husband is a Dr. who has also done research on drinking while pregnant. I have also read several articles. While I originally thought I may have a glass of wine a week, I found myself staying away from alcohol completely with the exception of a monthly sip (saving for a new house means staying in a lot).
I was absolutely ticked by my friends reaction. First, I am an adult and am able to make my own decisions. Second, taking a sip to coat my tongue will do NOTHING at all to our baby. Third, how dare you assume that I am not knowledgeable about my health and my babies health.
I after that rant I just want to say, do your own research, find your own conclusions and stop judging others. It's really not that difficult.
If a friend of mine ripped a drink out of my hands because I was tasting something? That would be the end of our friendship. How disrespectful and ignorant. They wouldn't have a chance to continue to berate me about it because I don't need some ignorant parent figure in my life. That's not a friend. Holy crap.
Eta I don't drink while pregnant. However I have tasted my husband's beer and cocktails. Probably the same as you, just a taste, not a drink.
There's so much conflicting information that it's hard to know what to believe. Even here on TB, I've seen it said a glass of wine is okay but then another blog entry saying no amount of alcohol is safe. I like to drink, but I am far from an alcoholic. I've had sips of other people's drinks and this past weekend I had about 1.5 ounces of Moscato. This is an area where moderation is key and you have to decide what is best for you.
Ohhhhh I miss me some wine but that being said I have done my research, I've got my doctors suggestions, I've got family suggestions, and most importantly it wasn't just a me me me choice. My SO has an equal say in what I do for baby, because he had an equal part in making baby, and will have an equal part in raising baby. He'd never ban me from doing anything but when I make decisions such as this one I ask his stance (luckily we tend to have the same opinions on most things ). All of this coming together and I've decided I don't want to drink during my pregnancy. I know that the occasional drink wouldn't be the end of the world, but in my mind it's not something I super miss anyway so what ever.
That being said, my little one will be super chill. Though that's mostly because when I can have my glass of wine back I'll be chill and, in my opinion, a chill mom = a chill little one.
Well thought id put out the thought of if wine is poison (yes technically it is) then what about other stuff - surely that's just as bad or worse? Eg aspartame (most diet & non-diet drinks in the UK contain it & it HAS been noted as a neurotoxin & carcinogenic. So I think what I'm trying to say is we all know the effects of wine/alcohol on a fetus as it's widely reported & we are given a "safe level" even if some choose not to believe it (I respect their decisions) but I don't feel guilty having the odd sip here and there but I DO NOT indulge in anything with sweetener in - which is actually proven as far far worse even in moderation! Just a thought ladies that's all
I have been lurking on this board for months... Don't really feel much need to comment and keep myself removed from the drama. However, to suggest that I am denying my child a higher IQ because I have abstained from alcohol for my entire pregnancy is a little off the wall in my opinion. I have chosen to not feed my baby a depressant (which is exactly what alcohol is) and for someone to suggest that their child's IQ is likely to be higher because they drank is just insane.
Re: Drinking while pregnant rant (long)
Edit: to make clear i was asking op
I don't think OP was judging as much as she was just venting. I too get annoyed by all of the crap I'm told to do/not do by people who are definitely not experts, ESPECIALLY when it comes to having the occasional glass of wine, so I understand where she's coming from.
I thought I was the only one to experience this. Last week the owner of the restaurant I was at suggested I try the sandwich of the day that had Brie. I told him I wasn't supposed to eat soft cheeses because I was pregnant, and then he went on a tangent about how Americans do things "@ss backwards" and that other countries aren't so uptight and I shouldn't worry about it. I told him I was PGAL and felt more comfortable sticking to the "rules" even if they are unnecessary. In the grand scheme of things, what's denying myself certain foods for 9 months? If I feel at all uncomfortable consuming something it's simply not worth it.
That being said, I don't feel OP is trying to talk anyone into consuming alcohol, I think she feels judged and wants to defend her position. We all have the responsibility to educate ourselves and make wise decisions, and we aren't all going to come to the same conclusion. It's sad that we do often feel the need to defend ourselves; just because someone decides what's right for them doesn't mean an alternative decision is wrong.
I hope I feel comfortable enough to consume a little wine here and there during holiday celebrations, but if I don't I won't. I'll be making those types of decisions based on my research, my health care provider's advice, and my own comfort level.
BFP #2 1/22/2012 ~ DS2 & DD ~ BIRTHday 9/13/2012 ~ unplanned C-section @ 38w1d
Married: 7.23.11
DD:10.17.12
EDD #2!:1.17.16
___
Lmao!
Married: 7.23.11
DD:10.17.12
EDD #2!:1.17.16
Claiming you are being judged while being judgy in return is just hypocritical. Make your own decisions, stand by them, stop making excuses or apologizing for them and stop expecting everyone else to follow them.
DD - January 2016
I haven't seen any moms here admit to binge drinking (I'm sure there are some that do and I hope they get help.) What I have seen in moms say they drink in moderation because they think the benefit to them outweighs any potential risk to baby, or because they don't think that there are risks to baby, or because they think it benefits baby. And I've seen moms say they choose not to drink for the opposite reasons. While it's really none of my business, since you gave your opinion about everyone else, I'll say that I think they're all right because they've all made the best decision for their own family. It's not whether or not they take a drink that matters, it's whether or not they made the decision for te right reasons.
There's no perfect way to parent and if there were, none of us would achieve it. So save your high horse for moms who are actually doing proven harm to their children. Or just put it away entirely.
Because a few people have asked for sources, here are a couple of the many I looked at. If you want to read one, the one I linked is fairly easy reading and brings up many points about other studies that I think are good (mainly that most studies on drinking alcohol in pregnancy lump all alcohol consumption into the same group, comparing women who drink anywhere from 1 drink a week to 20 drinks a week to women who don't drink at all). This study doesn't particularly point it out, but in my reading of many of the 'don't drink at all' studies, they also include illegal drug use in the same box as light drinking, which obviously skews results.
I also wanted to point out, as I did in my original post, that 'I would never claim that ... a woman should be forced to consume alcohol if it is not something that she is comfortable with'. I was in no way trying to shame or judge anyone for choosing not to drink, and I recommend anyone who took it that way re-read what I wrote originally.
Lastly, and this is a personal pet peeve of mine as someone involved in scientific research for many years, scientific studies that are well conducted are very good at pointing out their own biases and correcting for them as much as possible. For a person not well versed in the specific topic to claim that 'clearly the study is bogus because only rich women drink wine' or that it is impossible to tease apart many of these issues is nearly always incorrect. There have absolutely been bad studies performed and published, but the vast majority of the time if you take the time to actually read the study you will see how they corrected for these things.
Here a just a few of the articles I read, if you copy and paste the titles to google, or google scholar, you can read some of the full text articles, and at least the abstracts for all of them (which I put under the citations).
Falgreen Eriksen, H.-L., Mortensen, E., Kilburn, T., Underbjerg, M., Bertrand, J., Støvring, H., Wimberley, T., Grove, J. and Kesmodel, U. (2012), The effects of low to moderate prenatal alcohol exposure in early pregnancy on IQ in 5-year-old children. BJOG: An International Journal of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, 119: 1191–1200 No differences in test performance were observed between children whose mothers reported consuming between one and four or between five and eight drinks per week at some point during pregnancy, compared with children of mothers who abstained. For women who reported consuming nine or more drinks per week no differences were observed for mean differences; however, the risks of low full-scale IQ (OR 4.6; 95% CI 1.2–18.2) and low verbal IQ (OR 5.9; 95% CI 1.4–24.9) scores, but not low performance IQ score, were increased.Robinson M, Oddy WH, McLean NJ, Jacoby P, Pennell CE, de Klerk NH, Zubrick SR, Stanley FJ, Newnham JP. Low-moderate prenatal alcohol exposure and risk to child behavioural development: a prospective cohort study. BJOG. 2010 Aug;117(9):1139-50. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1471-0528.2010.02596.x/pdfIn this study we have shown that mothers who consumed light levels of alcohol (2-6 standard drinks per week) in the first 3 months of pregnancy had children with significantly lower total and internalizing CBCL scores over 14 years, representing more positive behavior, than non-drinkers at 3 months gestation. These data also indicate that the children of light to moderate drinkers (2-10 standard drinks per week) were at a clinically meaningful lower risk of total, internalizing and externalizing behavioural problems than the children of women who did not drink.
O'Callaghan FV, O'Callaghan M, Najman JM, Williams GM, Bor W. Prenatal alcohol exposure and attention, learning and intellectual ability at 14 years: a prospective longitudinal study. Early Hum Dev. 2007 Feb;83(2):115-23. For consumption of <1 glass/day in early or late pregnancy, there was no association with any attention, learning or cognitive outcomes. Guidelines in the UK, the country I am most familiar with and thus able to best identify the places to look for most official positions. The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists - RCOG updated its guidelines in February 2015, advising women not to drink alcohol during their first trimester or while trying to conceive. It reiterated that a rigorous check of scientific research over the past 15 years, shows there is no clear evidence that light drinking (1-2 units once or twice a week) in the second and third trimester does any harm to your baby.
The Royal College of Midwives - The RCM states, "There is indeed no evidence to suggest that low levels of alcohol are harmful to the baby after the first three months of pregnancy."
Married: 7.23.11
DD:10.17.12
EDD #2!:1.17.16
During my pregnancy, I have abstained from drinking with the exception of taking a sip of my husbands cocktail while we are dining out. This weekend I went out with several couples to our local restaurant/bar. I did the usual of taking a sip of my husband's drink to get a taste. My girlfriend ripped the drink away from me. She and our other friend continued to berated me.
My husband is a Dr. who has also done research on drinking while pregnant. I have also read several articles. While I originally thought I may have a glass of wine a week, I found myself staying away from alcohol completely with the exception of a monthly sip (saving for a new house means staying in a lot).
I was absolutely ticked by my friends reaction. First, I am an adult and am able to make my own decisions. Second, taking a sip to coat my tongue will do NOTHING at all to our baby. Third, how dare you assume that I am not knowledgeable about my health and my babies health.
I after that rant I just want to say, do your own research, find your own conclusions and stop judging others. It's really not that difficult.
The sad fact is, there are too many who abuse it, and even a few women are not smart enough to know the limit it is not ok. So yeah, I might judge that the pregnant girl holding a glass of wine because I am not confident they will stop when they are supposed to.
If just one less baby is born w/o a disability because the mom is told not to drink- it's a win in my book.
Eta I don't drink while pregnant. However I have tasted my husband's beer and cocktails. Probably the same as you, just a taste, not a drink.
That being said, my little one will be super chill. Though that's mostly because when I can have my glass of wine back I'll be chill and, in my opinion, a chill mom = a chill little one.
Married: 7.23.11
DD:10.17.12
EDD #2!:1.17.16