Anyone else with vastly different beliefs from family?

veganmummy · September 2015

I love my in laws. They are very kind and caring. Their hearts are always in the right place. However, they believe their way is the only way. My DH and I are agnostic and we are vegans. My in laws believe that we should raise our children according to their beliefs (Church of Christ). We are very respectful of their beliefs but it's not the way we plan to raise our family. My FIL also keeps making comments about sneaking our child cheese burgers and bacon. It may not seem like a big deal but we are very passionate about being vegan. We will raise our children to know that they have a choice to go to church with in laws, mosque with our Muslim friends, or any place of worship if they so they choose. They are also going to have the choice to be vegan or not. However, we don't feel a toddler is old enough to make those decisions and our in laws should be respectful of our parenting plan. My family is extremely supportive of our decisions. Am I just being hormonal and sensitive?

ClaireBear90 · September 2015

I wouldn't say vastly (in our case it's a little bit of the reverse of your situation) but there have definitely been compromises made. I'm not a huge fan of the fact that my mother-in-law cooks separate food for my kids when they're perfectly capable of eating whatever everyone else is having. I don't really like that she lets them have mac and cheese from a box every week when they go to visit. But it's not every day, I make sure that they eat other, less processed food at home and that they continue to try things at home even if they don't like them. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if a child never has meat, would they even be able to tolerate it later in life? I have a friend who can't eat certain types of meat because she didn't have them as a child and can't digest it properly. If your in-laws eat meat, it seems a little unreasonable to expect them to feed your child a vegan diet unless you're going to provide them with food at every visit. I'd encourage letting your toddler try meat/animal products, not to "make a decision" and not all the time, but just to be open-minded and experience both sides so that he/she CAN make a decision later in life. If this is truly non-negotiable for you, I think your in-laws will come around when your little one is ready to eat solid food. (My in-laws joke around a LOT about doing things that would really bother me . . . and then they don't follow through because they're just teasing. I still have a hard time telling sometimes though!)

There's a couple of things that we've had to sit down and have conversations with family members about. But generally, I'd say wait until an issue arises before you have those conversations. If you discuss your "parenting plan" with your in-laws, of course they are going to have an opinion! And if they offer an opinion unsolicited (pregnancy brings out SO many opinions!) don't feel like you need to discuss/defend your views. My in-laws know that we plan to homeschool and I don't think they're supportive of it because it's completely unfamiliar to them, but it's not something I've discussed with them or feel the need to discuss with them. My mother-in-law frequently talks to my daughter about "when you go to school." I don't say anything to her about it, I just let it go. My husband and I are the parents and we will call the shots regarding schooling when the time comes.

cmerribury · September 2015

I am an atheist, my husband is agnostic, my MIL is catholic. She pressured us for a LONG TIME to have my son baptized, but it's not something that either of us wanted to do (sorry, but I have no intention of standing in a church and lying to a man of God...I may be an atheist, but I still respect religion and people's rights to believe whatever they'd like). She was hurt for a long time, but eventually got over it. We've always told him that we will support him in whatever beliefs he'd like to explore, and have plans to take him to church soon (he's been requesting it).

The food thing is harder, because unless you plan to monitor them with baby, they are likely to feed him/her something eventually that will make you mad. My MIL did this to me repeatedly. Still does. It's actually become something of a passive aggressive game to her. But that's a whole other issue.

I think your best bet is to try to reason with them and hope that they respect your wishes enough to comply. Good luck!

Edited because typing is hard before I've finished my coffee.

soxfan9968 · September 2015

@veganmummy I think it's great that you're leaving room for your children to make-up their own minds later in life! I do agree with pp and wait until the issue arises. If you're respectful of their beliefs, they should respect yours but give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they're just amusing themselves and trying to rise a reaction from you both?

llybeck · September 2015

I am with you a little bit. I am atheist, DH was raised Catholic but is agnostic, and ILs are very Catholic. FIL isn't really practicing but MIL is. MIL cried for literally months when we didn't get married in a church. She wanted us to at least have our marriage blessed in the Catholic church after the fact. DH told her no flat out. It was a huge deal and finally I told her I couldn't even if we wanted to because the church wouldn't let us since I'm not baptized. I thought she was going to have a heart attack that her son married an unbaptized woman. It was horrible. There was a big debate when DD was born because we didn't baptize her and I know it still bothers her. Just this past weekend ILs watched DD and MIL took her to church without us knowing or asking. It pissed me off but at this point I let it go.

I would say you are going to have some conversations/battles with ILs but I agree with PP that I would wait until an issue actually arises before addressing it. At this point, while I don't love that my MIL took DD to church, she is 2 and doesn't understand the scope of that yet so I didn't press the issue. When she is older, I am probably going to have to have a conversation about why we want to teach her that she can be a part of any religion and that I will support and help her with any one she might want to explore. I don't want her to think Catholicism is the end all be all only religion, which is the way MIL feels. I know she's coming from a good place and probably just took her because she goes every Sunday, I know she didn't do this with any malcontent, so I'm not going to make a fight out of nothing right now.

I don't think you are overreacting, it is frustrating to feel like you are going to be undermined when YOU are the parent, it feels bad to think that people (your own family even) won't respect that. The best thing you can do is stay firm and consistent. I used to have a really hard time and would shut down when MIL was upset about something like that, then get super angry and just avoid her for as long as possible. That was obviously terrible for our relationship. So now when she starts on anything I say something like, "I understand that is how you feel and how you raised your family but that's not how DH and I feel. DD is our daughter and we are going to be the ones to make those decisions. I appreciate your concern and I know you're coming from a good place but this just isn't up for discussion." There are a lot of things her and I disagree on but we still care about each other and our families and we get through it. Also, make sure your DH is on board with you as well and that you are both consistent together. My DH is awesome at sticking up for me/us but it took a lot of time for us to both get to this point. Be a united front! That will help a lot.

lindscnn1 · September 2015

Out of curiosity, are you a vegan for health reasons or because you don't like the killing of animals thing? I ask because if it's a health thing then you can use that approach. If it's because of the way the meat is raised and killed maybe you could negotiate with the in-laws that they only feed certain meats. Do they hunt, if so you would much rather your child eat meat from an animal that lived a good life, ate what it's supposed to, no additives and was killed in a quick, humane way. You can also find healthier meats such as Bison that cost more but was treated more humane and it just tastes better than cow. Also how often will your child be at the in-laws? I don't think an occasional burger will change his/her palate too much since you are willing to let him or her decide on their own if they want to be vegan.

oceanchild · September 2015

I don't think you're overreacting at all. I don't really agree with the waiting until it becomes an issue to address it either. I'd address it now, and very firmly. If they continue to make “jokes” about “sneaking a cheeseburger” then they will never, EVER be unsupervised with the grandchild. And if they can't have enough respect for you guys to not make those very disrespectful comments (i am sure you don't make disrespectful comments to them about their religion), then they will no longer be a part of your lives, even though you love them.
I have taken the wait until it becomes an issue approach before, and it became an issue (different situation) and my child was given something that I was extremely opposed to. I have no room for people in my life that have such little respect for me. They are welcome to their own beliefs for their families, but they need to have the same regard for our beliefs and our family.
Also, applauding you on the plan to give your children their choices one diet/religious beliefs once they reach the appropriate ages.

llybeck · September 2015

oceanchild said:

I don't think you're overreacting at all. I don't really agree with the waiting until it becomes an issue to address it either. I'd address it now, and very firmly. If they continue to make “jokes” about “sneaking a cheeseburger” then they will never, EVER be unsupervised with the grandchild. And if they can't have enough respect for you guys to not make those very disrespectful comments (i am sure you don't make disrespectful comments to them about their religion), then they will no longer be a part of your lives, even though you love them. I have taken the wait until it becomes an issue approach before, and it became an issue (different situation) and my child was given something that I was extremely opposed to. I have no room for people in my life that have such little respect for me. They are welcome to their own beliefs for their families, but they need to have the same regard for our beliefs and our family. Also, applauding you on the plan to give your children their choices one diet/religious beliefs once they reach the appropriate ages.

I think this partly comes down to knowing who the issue is regarding. My ILs made a TON of comments when I was pregnant but when it came down to it, they didn't act upon them. I knew that was going to be the case (they talk big but in the end they are respectful) so after we told them "no" about what they were joking about, those things never became an issue, even if they still brought them up as a joke. So if I would have made a huge deal out of it and told them they couldn't see DD or us again if they didn't respect us, that would have caused a ton of hurt feelings probably a big fight over something that would have totally been a non-issue. That's just my experience and why I would wait but everyone is different and knows their family best.

veganmummy · September 2015

My child being raised vegan is not a negotiation. My DH and I have tried to be firm and respectful when we explain our stance. I just don't feel like we have to compromise with people who are not parents. We will always send food with kiddo so IL won't have to provide any additional food. My DH and I feel very strongly that my IL need to respect the fact that they are grandparents, not parents. It's important to me that they have a good relationship with our kids but that doesn't mean that we should have to compromise our belief system. They aren't anti vegan. They just don't think it's important. I understand that if kiddo spends the night with ILs they will all be going to church. I'm not anti religion so that's not a big deal to me. I think it's more of a boundary issue. If something was really important to you, would you change it because of someone else?

oceanchild · September 2015

llybeck said:
I think this partly comes down to knowing who the issue is regarding. My ILs made a TON of comments when I was pregnant but when it came down to it, they didn't act upon them. I knew that was going to be the case (they talk big but in the end they are respectful) so after we told them "no" about what they were joking about, those things never became an issue, even if they still brought them up as a joke. So if I would have made a huge deal out of it and told them they couldn't see DD or us again if they didn't respect us, that would have caused a ton of hurt feelings probably a big fight over something that would have totally been a non-issue. That's just my experience and why I would wait but everyone is different and knows their family best.

good point, very true. in this situation, i would trust my parents (re:diet) if i were leaving my child unattended to spend the night with them, despite the jokes. i *think* i would trust my inlaws as well, but not positive.

@veganmummy i wouldn't change something really important to me bc of someone else, although i may change something important to someone else for that person (like i wouldn't stop being vegan if my husband was not, but if i wasn't vegan i would consider becoming vegan bc it was important to him, does that make sense? bc i would just making a lifestyle change, not a change in my beliefs/values. (i don't think that many ominovorous humans feel like it is morally wrong for them to eat meat.)

if i were atheist/agnostic but open to my child exploring his own religious choices, i would have no opposition to him attending church/synagogu/mass/whatever prayer gathering bc i know we would discuss his experience there as a family and how he felt about things, and he would probably ask why i didn't believe and we would talk about that too.

my question: do you trust your inlaws to only feed the food you send and never anything else at all (even if they think it is vegan?) one of my very best friends is a strict vegan mama (the whole family) and i have learned so, so much from her. although i am not vegan, we make sure to only bring truly vegan food into their house and whenever they visit ours we make sure to provide a wide variety of vegan foods. at the beginning of our friendship though i remember being really surprised about the "hidden" non-vegan ingredients (honey, "natural flavor" etc) in so many meat/dairy free foods!

veganmummy · September 2015

oceanchild said:

llybeck said:

I think this partly comes down to knowing who the issue is regarding. My ILs made a TON of comments when I was pregnant but when it came down to it, they didn't act upon them. I knew that was going to be the case (they talk big but in the end they are respectful) so after we told them "no" about what they were joking about, those things never became an issue, even if they still brought them up as a joke. So if I would have made a huge deal out of it and told them they couldn't see DD or us again if they didn't respect us, that would have caused a ton of hurt feelings probably a big fight over something that would have totally been a non-issue. That's just my experience and why I would wait but everyone is different and knows their family best.

good point, very true. in this situation, i would trust my parents (re:diet) if i were leaving my child unattended to spend the night with them, despite the jokes. i *think* i would trust my inlaws as well, but not positive.

@veganmummy i wouldn't change something really important to me bc of someone else, although i may change something important to someone else for that person (like i wouldn't stop being vegan if my husband was not, but if i wasn't vegan i would consider becoming vegan bc it was important to him, does that make sense? bc i would just making a lifestyle change, not a change in my beliefs/values. (i don't think that many ominovorous humans feel like it is morally wrong for them to eat meat.)

if i were atheist/agnostic but open to my child exploring his own religious choices, i would have no opposition to him attending church/synagogu/mass/whatever prayer gathering bc i know we would discuss his experience there as a family and how he felt about things, and he would probably ask why i didn't believe and we would talk about that too.

my question: do you trust your inlaws to only feed the food you send and never anything else at all (even if they think it is vegan?) one of my very best friends is a strict vegan mama (the whole family) and i have learned so, so much from her. although i am not vegan, we make sure to only bring truly vegan food into their house and whenever they visit ours we make sure to provide a wide variety of vegan foods. at the beginning of our friendship though i remember being really surprised about the "hidden" non-vegan ingredients (honey, "natural flavor" etc) in so many meat/dairy free foods!

I trust my MIL on this more than my FIL. He's not a bad guy but he's a typical retired military man. He's always right and other opinions are wrong. They always have some sort of vegan options for dinner when we go over, usually some sort of veggies. It's extremely kind that they give us that option. My MIL is gluten free and soy free by choice so she kind of understands. When she comes over, every dish is gluten free, soy free, and vegan
She'll occasionally bring her on food (a big ass turkey for two people on Thanksgiving) and we don't make a big deal.

arcanejinx · September 2015

I'm veg*n, DH is not. We have agreed that until the age of 5 or so we will raise our child vegetarian and if they then decide to want to try meat that it has to come from certain sources. Thankfully both sets of grandparents understand that our parenting choices are not up for discussion.

DH and I are both atheists (though I'm an antitheist and he's more ok with religion). He's ok with extended family taking our child to church (though his family don't go-only my mother) but I'm not. So we have agreed that church is a no go place, especially while our child is young. I have issues with religion for (as my family and him have acknowledged) valid reasons and again the grandparents know this is not a decision for them to make. It's something DH and I will negotiate as our child grows.

maelic · September 2015

We're atheists and I'm mildly concerned that my family in Italy might one day sneak my daughter away to try and have her baptized against my will. Amused, also. They still don't think my husband and I are "really" married because we didn't get married in church. Whatever. I've learned to smile and nod.

The diet thing must feel like a losing battle, I sympathize. I can't even get my in laws to not give my toddler juice and candy, I don't even think I'd know where to start with veganism (also, be aware that you might have a kid like mine who only eats protein in the form of yogurt, milk, or cheese. In which case, good luck! It's frustrating enough as it is and we don't have dietary restrictions. Toddlers gonna toddle).

lindscnn1 · September 2015

veganmummy said:
My child being raised vegan is not a negotiation. My DH and I have tried to be firm and respectful when we explain our stance. I just don't feel like we have to compromise with people who are not parents. We will always send food with kiddo so IL won't have to provide any additional food. My DH and I feel very strongly that my IL need to respect the fact that they are grandparents, not parents. It's important to me that they have a good relationship with our kids but that doesn't mean that we should have to compromise our belief system. They aren't anti vegan. They just don't think it's important. I understand that if kiddo spends the night with ILs they will all be going to church. I'm not anti religion so that's not a big deal to me. I think it's more of a boundary issue. If something was really important to you, would you change it because of someone else?

I only wrote what I did because you initially said you were going to let your child choose on their own. I definitely don't mean that you have to negotiate or compromise with anyone. Since you feel so strongly about it, or anything for that matter, those things should be abided by anyone else. I agree with pp that in-laws tend to be more talk than action. If they say they are going to feed him/her a bacon cheeseburger then give them the brands of vegan options. I think they are likely saying that in a teasing manner, I am not excusing it though. Not saying you have to or are responsible for giving them information but maybe if you provided them with some literature on the benefits for children from a health standpoint maybe that may enlighten them? Have they even tried a vegan diet recently? I ask because "us" meat eaters who last tried vegan meals over 10 years ago won't understand how much better they have made the taste of some foods that are supposed to mimic meats and cheeses. The taste has really improved. My kids love meat, especially fresh meat that is hunted by my husband and family. But there's quite a few foods that my kids enjoy that are vegan. You are in an uncomfortable situation but it is their issue to get over.

soxfan9968 · September 2015

I don't think anyone is asking you to negotiate. I think we're trying to better understand your situation. I recommended waiting because because like llybeck mentioned, some families tend to make the commentary but don't actually mean it. If you've already had the serious conversation with them about how you feel and they won't acknowledge that they understand and will respect your wishes, then I agree it's time to set your foot down. Just make sure that they're not being "funny" with their commentary.

mshukh · September 2015

Personally, I think that grandparents are there to spoil children and generally their house, their rules. I am a very controlling person, but I think it's only respectful to let them have their way when they are helping you. I really think that you have two choices: either accept that you won't be able to control everything they do or always supervise.

flowerpower5838 · September 2015

I agree to a certain extent on their house their rules - for example maybe later bedtimes, more TV than usual, some treats {gasp} before dinner, etc.

But if it comes down to them trampling your beliefs and the way you plan to raise your children I think that is crossing a line. They are your (or DHs) parents after all and I don't think it's asking too much to abide by your core values even if they aren't the same as their own.

mshukh · September 2015

Yeah, but beliefs are very personal. Children have no beliefs or belief systems. There are no safety issues from occasionally straying for the two specific items discussed (veganism and atheism). If something close family did or said was dangerous or in any way detrimental to a child, then I believe that everything should be done to ensure it never happens. This is not such a case. Also, beliefs in families run both ways. Everyone should be respectful of each others' beliefs and values. Respect does not mean agreement. Grandparents are not paid help, so you can't expect them to obey everything you say. I think that is being a tad unrealistic. And if you want your child to pick what they believe when they are older (which I don't think anyone has true control over anyhow), then it's only fair to expose them to both sides of the argument. IMO it is unrealistic to expect everyone to only say or eat certain things around your child, nor is it very respectful either. And toddlers being toddlers, they will want to try that "other" stuff people are eating.

In the end, no one can tell you what to do. I just think it's best for the family as a whole, if you are a bit more realistic and accepting.

flowerpower5838 · September 2015

OP obviously has strong beliefs about veganism where it doesn't seem her ILs do. I don't think that respecting someone's beliefs where you have none is asking much. It's being respectful.

IDK, but in my family going out of our way/comfort zones for each other isn't something we blink an eye about so maybe that's why I would hope OP's ILs would want to respect their wishes? She already mentioned MIL is soy/gluten free by choice and that she accommodates that so you'd think that kindness would be reciprocated.

I DO however agree that it may be unrealistic to expect others to eat a certain way around your kids and expect your kids not to be curious/want what is being eaten. lol at what @maelic said - toddlers gonna toddle.

kfarr26 · September 2015

I'm a little uncomfortable with the notion that you've decided before your child is even born that them being vegan is not negotiable. You previously stated you wanted your child to eventually decide, but now you've thrown down that under no circumstance are you going to allow others to expose them to other choices.

Honestly, my two cents are to lighten up a bit. I'd be embarrassed to constantly be providing different food for my child throughout their childhood unless it's for a legitimate food allergy type issue. Just remember that your child is going to grow up...they are going to go on play dates, go to school, go to birthday parties, attend sleepovers. Especially when my kid goes to another household and eats a meal or snack, I don't think it's my place to enforce strict dietary rules without medical cause.

This is coming from an extremely accommodating person, too. When I've had vegetarians - no vegan friends - over for parties with food, I make sure they have just as much good selection of food as my meat eating friends. I never just throw out a sad store made vegetable tray and call it good. I'm all for people living the way they want, but I am uncomfortable with children being brainwashed into lifestyle or religious choices.

SarahJean1014 · September 2015

mshukh said:
Yeah, but beliefs are very personal. Children have no beliefs or belief systems. There are no safety issues from occasionally straying for the two specific items discussed (veganism and atheism). If something close family did or said was dangerous or in any way detrimental to a child, then I believe that everything should be done to ensure it never happens. This is not such a case. Also, beliefs in families run both ways. Everyone should be respectful of each others' beliefs and values. Respect does not mean agreement. Grandparents are not paid help, so you can't expect them to obey everything you say. I think that is being a tad unrealistic. And if you want your child to pick what they believe when they are older (which I don't think anyone has true control over anyhow), then it's only fair to expose them to both sides of the argument. IMO it is unrealistic to expect everyone to only say or eat certain things around your child, nor is it very respectful either. And toddlers being toddlers, they will want to try that "other" stuff people are eating.

In the end, no one can tell you what to do. I just think it's best for the family as a whole, if you are a bit more realistic and accepting.

While I agree with most of what you saying I do believe that the grandparents should respect their wishes regarding the child being vegan. The child will not be able to properly digest animal protein if they are not exposed on a regular basis. Speaking from experience the first time I had beef after being a vegetarian for three years it was pretty painful experience. I don't think it's fair to feed a child something you know will make them sick unless you plan on incorporating meat into their diet regularly.

veganmummy · September 2015

It's not "brainwashing" to raise my kids the way I believe is right. Take out the word "vegan" and replace it with any belief or value. I was not necessarily directing the non-negotiable comment at anyone. Just pointing out that my DH have already made that decision and we aren't backing down. Being vegan is not simply a diet. It's an entire was of life that I don't want disrespected. I go out of my way to accommodate my MILs extremely expensive dietary choices. Why is it unreasonable to expect the same courtesy? My mom is not a vegan but supports our decision 100 percent. She knows that it's important to me and DH.

SoSirius · September 2015

Lurking from F16. I've been a vegetarian since I was born and have never tried any meat. I've gone to public school and had all kinds of sleepovers. I am also currently raising a vegetarian toddler. It is possible to remain vegetarian/vegan and it isn't as difficult as omnivores might make it seem. This is something hard to understand unless you've lived it so keep that in mind when you say that it is impossible. I was never brainwashed either. I think that is very disrespectful to say. With that logic, anything you and your family have been doing for generations can be called being brainwashed. In that case, the omnivore diet is brainwashing (I don't actually believe that but I'm showing how ridiculous that sounds). Remember there are many reasons why people choose to have the diet they have. If you are ignorant of those reasons, you shouldn't assume they aren't important enough for family to respect. Like OP said, replace vegan with one of your strongly held beliefs and you can get a better perspective.

@veganmummy, my in-laws are vegetarian but there are certain thing we don't agree on in terms of what my son should eat. We were firm with them and did constantly supervise until they understood that we were serious and had good reasons for our choices (health). Depending on how reasonable your in-laws are, I do think you'll have to be vigilant until they get it. You and your SO will have to be a united front.

lightrox · September 2015

Grandparents need to respect parents wishes it's that simple to me. They are not the parent and if they want to spend time with their grandchild they should respect the parents wishes. My dad is extremely stubborn and didn't want to abide by my older sisters rules. Her husband and her decided they didn't want their children listening to secular music or ever attending a movie theatre he wanted to sneak them to a movie when my sister left my nieces with my parents and my mother put her foot down reminding him that he didn't like it when his parents tried to go around their rules for us when they watched us. It doesn't matter if it's religion or veganism if one family has rules the other family should respect these decisions or it may limit the amount of time they get to spend with their grand children.

ACleanLife24 · September 2015

So you want them to be exposed to lots of different things and make their choices but only when you decide it's so?

Feed them vegan in your home and when out with family etc let them make choices and try different things. Unless there is an allergy there is no reason to be militant about it.

kfarr26 · September 2015

Brainwashing is a strong way to say it, yes, but I feel the same way as raising them in a certain denomination of church without tolerance of other belief systems. It was the non negotiable comment that makes me squirm. It's your choice as a parent, obviously, but other people including myself and your family are going to have opinions.

I have no stake in how your child is raised, but your family does. You are the parent, but it's completely unrealistic to not expect other members of your family to have influence over your child's upbringing. It's not unkind to have concern over something because they love your child and rightly are concerned over what they believe is best. You're right that respect is necessary, but when it's not hurting your child or undermining your authority, letting go of some of the control is not a bad thing.

I'm sorry, it's not personal at all...I just don't understand why extremely strict dietary beliefs are such a big deal unless direct harm will come from straying from them. If you expose your children to your beliefs and allow others to expose them to their own, which absolutely will happen whether you like it or not, and they ultimately choose your way of doing things, fantastic. If not, what's the harm? That's all I'm trying to say.

veganmummy · September 2015

kfarr26 said:
Brainwashing is a strong way to say it, yes, but I feel the same way as raising them in a certain denomination of church without tolerance of other belief systems. It was the non negotiable comment that makes me squirm. It's your choice as a parent, obviously, but other people including myself and your family are going to have opinions.

I have no stake in how your child is raised, but your family does. You are the parent, but it's completely unrealistic to not expect other members of your family to have influence over your child's upbringing. It's not unkind to have concern over something because they love your child and rightly are concerned over what they believe is best. You're right that respect is necessary, but when it's not hurting your child or undermining your authority, letting go of some of the control is not a bad thing.

I'm sorry, it's not personal at all...I just don't understand why extremely strict dietary beliefs are such a big deal unless direct harm will come from straying from them. If you expose your children to your beliefs and allow others to expose them to their own, which absolutely will happen whether you like it or not, and they ultimately choose your way of doing things, fantastic. If not, what's the harm? That's all I'm trying to say.

I don't think you understand that veganism is not just about what we eat. At least not for me and DH. It is a belief system. Everyone is entitled to what they believe. In my house we believe that killing or hurting animals for any reason is immoral. I'm not trying to point fingers at anyone else's beliefs. I just not think you've considered it as anything other that food choices. It doesn't make sense to raise a child opposite of what we believe is right. I've already said my IL don't have a problem with being vegan;there are no health concerns with them. I've been vegan for 13 years so I know what I'm doing. I'm also a Health Educator. My job is to evaluate nutrition. It seems like people have jumped on the "vegans are weird" bandwagon. I think it's bizarre to let a toddler eat cheetos or happy meals but I'm not their parents. Bottom line, parents make the decision about what is right for their children. For many reasons, the main one being health, we have chosen to raise our children this way.

SoSirius · September 2015

@kfarr26 tolerance isn't the same thing as allowing your child to do it. I never disrespected someone who did eat meat because I didn't. I don't know OPs reasoning so I'm just going to state mine so you can have some context. My vegetarianism is culturally and religiously based. So although it appears not to outwardly harm him, my religion and culture would say otherwise. So, if my in-laws believed in a different religion but my husband and I had agree to raise our child in my religion, is it OK for my in-laws to undermine that belief now? Are there certain beliefs in my religion that they couldn't undermine in your mind but diet is so inconsequential to YOU that you don't see why they have to respect my religion on that topic alone? Diet is a HUGE part of my religion so it is extremely important to us.

If you do agree that my in-laws should respect my wishes because they are deeply rooted religious and cultural beliefs, I ask why this situation is different. Religion isn't important to everyone. There's no reason why that particular reason to be vegan/vegetarian is better than other very well researched reasons to be vegan. The culture here is changing. Veganism and vegetarianism is becoming more mainstream. You can eat a vegan version of everything (cheese, butter, milk, meats, etc.). Although it seems extreme to someone who hasn't lived it, it is completely doable. As a vegetarian, I can make jokes like I would never be able to live without cheese! Really though, I don't know. As a born vegetarian, I have never ever craved meat and it is significantly easier to remain vegetarian. Those who choose not to remain vegetarian just have to take it slowly when introducing new foods.

I hope that was clear and not abrasive. Sorry of it came off more aggressive than I meant it too!

kfarr26 · September 2015

I'm definitely not feeling like either you or the OP are being abrasive at all, and I hope I'm not being interpreted that way, either. I guess since I just don't feel the same way as the OP that I'm just missing how important it is to them. I'll give them that. As for religious restrictions on diet, yes those absolutely should be respected without question. Agreed 100%.

I just have a very different perspective as I was raised on a small farm where we grew our own vegetables, collected fresh eggs from our chickens each morning, and ate the chickens when they stopped laying. I have a respect for where food comes from and am all for ethical treatment of animals...but I simply don't find eating animals or animal products as immoral. I also grew up fishing and eating what we caught.

I think that's my disconnect. I understand vegetarians but not vegans. I get that killing animals for food could be a problem for someone. I just don't see the harm in eating honey or cheese or whatever. To each their own, though.

veganmummy · September 2015

I grew up on a farm as well. The respect I gained for animals is the reason I became vegan to begin with. If all dairy and eggs came from nice family farms, maybe I wouldn't have a problem with it. However, that's not the case.

RosieMommy2016 · September 2015

Lets see, My husband and I both grew up Catholic, he is now an atheist, I just don't follow organized religion. I am also a vegetarian. We've had to explain that we didn't want our son Christened, we would like for him to choose which path he would like to follow. My mom seems to understand it as "I want my son to say he wants to be baptized, not forced into it", and she seems happy with that.

The vegetarian thing bothers both sides of the family the most. They are afraid I am going to starve the poor baby. They feel I am doing it now. I have explained that I am a vegetarian for health reasons. I cook meat for the hubby all the time, I just don't want it in me. I will let the baby have meat (when he is old enough for solid foods, and at the stage that meat is safe for him to eat). But right now they are down my throat that I don't even have fish.

llybeck · September 2015

ACleanLife24 said:
So you want them to be exposed to lots of different things and make their choices but only when you decide it's so?

Feed them vegan in your home and when out with family etc let them make choices and try different things. Unless there is an allergy there is no reason to be militant about it.

It's not being militant though, it's how you want your kids raised. From what I understand, veganism can be as much of a belief system as a religion, so why wouldn't others respect that? OP said they want to give their kids choices and be exposed to other things when they are older, it would be a bit hard and confusing for the kid at a young age. I can imagine me telling my two year old DD that she was free to make her own decisions and being met with a blank stare, lol. Or she would decide she now only believes in eating cookies and not taking naps. So for right now, DH and I raise her based on our beliefs and values and our families respect that. When she's old enough to make logical choices on her own and get curious of other beliefs, cultures, religions, etc we'll discuss, encourage, and support her in the things she wants to explore and believe.

It's no different than me not wanting DD to go to catholic church with my MIL. I want to be the one to expose my kids to those things and be the one to answer their questions about it, not my MIL. Not because I don't love or respect my MIL but because I don't want her to explain religion to my kid because our beliefs are totally different.

And the bottom line is, it doesn't matter what it is or what the reasoning is behind it, the parents are who gets to make those choices, no one else. Grandparents and everyone else have to have respect for that. I see what you're saying about not being so rigid but you shouldn't have to bend on what you think is best for your kid

oceanchild · September 2015

ACleanLife24 said:
Unless there is an allergy there is no reason to be militant about it.

kfarr26 said:
I just don't see the harm in eating honey or cheese or whatever. To each their own, though.

I know a lot of people have said similar things, so I just picked a couple to quote, but I have to respectfully disagree. It's not necessarily a diet or health choice, but an ethical choice. Just as some people feel meat is murder, some people further feel that taking honey and eggs and milk from animals is stealing from them, taking things they need for their own young or survival, forcing them into slave-like situations by (just as an example) giving them hormones to keep them producing milk unnaturally, and/or taking their young away from them.
I can totally empathize that if I were trying to instill the same ethics in my kids, I wouldn't want our parents feeding them non vegan foods or saying "this is ok for you to do when you're with us" since we'd be trying to instill the values that taking life and stealing things necessary to the survival of animals is wrong.
The 5yo twins of my vegan bestie have grown up with this being explained to them - they know that other families don't choose this lifestyle, but they also know that just bc my daughter is eating XYZ at this birthday party, doesn't mean that they are allowed to, just as my kids know that just bc their little friend is getting an ice cream after that happy meal doesn't mean they are entitled to as well. They have been good about checking foods with their mother since they were almost 4yo. When we have a party where we are serving cake, I always make sure I have some vegan cupcakes or "ice cream" for them. They have never even looked forlornly at the other kids' plates. As they get older they may choose a different lifestyle, but for now their parents make the decision.
I know it's not the same, so maybe my logic isn't perfect right here, but I feel like if the FIL knows the kids are being taught that eating cheese is morally wrong bc it's stealing milk from cow, and he gives them cheese anyhow, he's essentially saying "stealing is ok when I give you the cheese - your parents are wrong" (or "I know your mom said that eating a burger is taking the innocent life of this animal, but I don't think it's murder") instead of just acknowledging to the kids "we have different ideas about what is right, but I am going to defer to your parents' rules"
I would supervise the kids at all times until I knew I could trust them (or the parents), or until they were at the age where we had agreed that they could make their own decisions about such matters when they weren't under my roof.
Sorry for the ramble; hope any of that made sense. And I'm not trying to say that I personally believe that eating meat/dairy/eggs/etc is wrong; I am neither vegan nor vegetarian

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