I don't know if that was towards me or not but my fears comes from the fact that when my husband was younger his mom said she took him in for his shots and he broke out on his arm when she took him to the doctor they couldn't determine what the issue was. So instead of saying oh ok maybe it's just a chance I rather be safe....so yeah
A breakout is a really minor reaction...
And great it's a minor reaction but it's still one. I rather know ok my child got these two shots today and he had a break out or worse and than going in and like fuck they got 5 shots today which one caused this and we have a long list of ingredients to look at. I just rather be safe. I highly doubt me spacing 4 shots over 2 weeks is going to hurt my child.
Redness at injection site can happen. Put an ice pack on it . The end. Also it's documented ( or should be if the nurse knows what the hell she is doing ) what shot was given where so it can be determined which one caused an issue. Shots should not all be given in the same place at once. Example : kid gets 4 shots. It will be documented something like
MMR - LLT Varicella - LUT Pediarix- RLT IPV- RLT
Left lower thigh , right upper thigh etc......
However spacing them out a week or so isn't an awful idea but I'd rather get them done at once than put them through that pain that many separate times
I'm a pharmacist. I vaccinated my two kids and will vaccinate this one following the recommended schedule. A few things to consider:
1. If you think there is a conspiracy in this country, check out global info on vaccines. The WHO, European countries, etc. aren't part of our American "conspiracy machine" and have the exact same views on vaccination.
2. Consider the logistics of a "delayed schedule." Selecting and separating vaccines to delay them may be difficult on you and your child. Most offices carry the vaccines in the recommended combinations to minimize the number of shots and visits your child will need. When you delay, you will need more visits and your kid will get a shot at almost all of them. This is unnecessary since there is no data of benefit for spreading things out.I wouldn't purposefully sign up for more shots and visits to subject my kid to than necessary- particularly once they are old enough to remember them (around 3). One of the best feelings was knowing that once my kid was 18 months old he wouldn't need any more shots until he was 4.
3. The internet does not make you an expert nor do google searches qualify as "research." This is not meant to be insulting, it is just a fact. Be comfortable trusting the professionals you've chosen to advise you. What would you think if someone spent a few nights on the internet and tried to insist they knew your job better than you? Come with questions, voice your concerns, but be open to expert opinion.
Here's the issue with delayed vaccines. Vaccines are designed to work on very specific scedules. You introduce the antigen, your body reacts, then the response gradually fades. You NEED to have the "reminder" dose(s) at a very specific time to boost those antigens to help raise them to the level where they will remain either permanently or for a long time. Delaying spaces out the reminder doses and causes a lowered response and less effectiveness of the vaccine. That is why many peds won't do it.
Thankfully I live in California where all children attending public or private schools have to be up to date in order to attend the only exception being a severe reaction to the vaccine. Go Governor Brown! This is about public health which trumps all.
I would just like to to say a few things about the vaccine debate. First, I am an emergency physician and have read what little literature is available on the side effects of vaccination. I think it is a wonderful thing that we live in a society where we can even have this debate. Most mothers who opt not to vaccinate, from my experience, are doing it because in their hearts that is what they believe is best for their child. While I do not applaud their actions, I do applaud their motivations.
My experience in medicine has been that every choice comes down to weighing the risks and the benefits. Unfortunately, when doing this, all the information that you would like to make a decision is not always available or still unknown. Therefore, as a clinician you must make you decision based on both literature, statistics and personal experience.
During medical school, I saw a children pass away from an illness that could have been prevented with a vaccine. There is almost no greater tragedy than seeing a child die from something that could have easily been prevented. Millions of children are vaccinated around the world and most never develop notable side effects. The benefits of preventing just one death in a child, in my opinion, outweigh the very small risk that the child might possibly develop a chronic illness.
Calling the vaccine discussion a "debate" or saying things like there are 2 sides is false balance. The scientific/medical community is united, and the overwhelming majority of lay people are in favor of vaccines (95-99%+ except in certain rarified hippie areas and non-mainstream communities)
I am a hippie natural mama myself and I was ALMOST led astray by the dangerous misinformation of the antivaxxers.
It's not a debate. It's not cloth vs disposable. It's not breast or bottle. It's not work outside the home or SAHM. It's not babywear or stroller. It's not crib or cosleep. It's not purées or baby led weaning. It's life or death.
It's life or death for those too young or medically unable to be vaccinated.
Vaccinate your kids unless there is a legitimate medical reason they cannot be.
Calling the vaccine discussion a "debate" or saying things like there are 2 sides is false balance.
The scientific/medical community is united, and the overwhelming majority of lay people are in favor of vaccines (95-99%+ except in certain rarified hippie areas and non-mainstream
communities)
I am a hippie natural mama myself and I was ALMOST led astray by the dangerous misinformation of the antivaxxers.
It's not a debate. It's not cloth vs disposable. It's not breast or bottle. It's not work outside the home or SAHM. It's not babywear or stroller. It's not crib or cosleep. It's not purées or baby led weaning. It's life or death.
It's life or death for those too young or medically unable to be vaccinated.
Vaccinate your kids unless there is a legitimate medical reason they cannot be.
So much yes.
This just feels like such a privileged problem to have. There are so many men and women in so many other parts of the world that would walk miles and stand in lines for hours just to provide their babies with the best chance at survival (in the face of these preventable diseases) and yet we, who have access to these relatively inexpensively and incredibly conveniently, just decide that "no, I'd like to not have that thank you". It wouldn't even be a debate in most parts of the world.
And I'm with you, in a lot of ways I am a "crunchy" mama, but honestly, being on the crunchy forums has left a bad taste in my mouth with all the misinformation and blatant believing of anything as long as it's the opposite of science.
My beautiful boy, born 7/2014 Newb expected 4/6/2016
My issue is that I can't read articles like these and ignore them. I can't just say "oh that would never happen to me" and I sure as hell don't believe these stories are made up. A lot of you wil respond that these women WHO HAVE LOST THEIR NEWBORNS because of a vaccine are kooks but I don't. You can say that the "minor side effects" of a vaccine outweighs getting Polio (a disease that has been reported less than 100 times since 1979) but hey, it's your kid.
I am not offering an opinion, but am only giving information for parents who are worried about the autism/vaccine connection. As a special Ed teacher, I would like to remind (or inform) everyone that the doctor who wrote the study that vaccines cause autism was disproven, lost his medical license, and went to jail for that claim. No study since has duplicated his results. More and more studies are showing hat autism is a neurological disorder caused by the amount of axons in the frontal lobe that are created during pregnancy. I also have a student who has severe non-verbal autism who is unvaccinated, for what it's worth
For the record I don't necessarily believe that they cause autism but I will say it hasn't been the first time in history that someone brave enough to come forward with such sensitive information has been silenced by being put in jail or even killed. I know this makes me sound like one of the really looney conspiracy theorists but I do not trust our government with my child's well being. There are BILLIONS of dollars in vaccine revenue.
I have very much enjoyed hearing all the ladies comments. Truly. Especially the teacher who has a non audible, no vaccinated autistic child in her class. I've been pleasantly surprised with all the non confrontational informative comments that's have been posted.
I was hoping to hear from both but from my experience, many people who don't vaccinate are so badly shamed and bullied that they don't come forward about it.
People love to being up the autism study, but how many who being it up have actually read it? It's not some poor scientist who is silenced for going against drug companies. The study is SO flawed. How many participants do you think were in it? 12. 12 whole kids that entire argument is based on. Who also had other problems mind you. I encourage anyone who uses that article to actually read it before bringing it up in a debate.
BFP 5.21.12 ~~ Born 1.28.13 BFP 8.14.15 ~~ Due 4.22.16
So he's in jail for writing a flawed study? Interesting
Now I'm ready to offer an opinion. His study was not flawed. It was fabricated and he had financial motivation to make such a claim. And his claim wasn't against all vaccines, just the MMR. He is in jail not for making a scientific claim, but for the abuse of children with Autism and other developmental delays. Lying to create public hysteria is not brave. Also, the fact that money is made off of vaccines is irrelevant. Money is made off of carseats, but we use them without a doubt. Money is made off of formula sales, but people don't have a problem using it. Money is made off of the antibiotics you took the last time you were sick, but I'm sure you preferred that over your tonsilitis. Money is made off of cancer treatments, but people accept that in order to increase their likelyhood of survival. The reality is that the healthcare in the U.S. is a money making system, but that doesn't nulify the effectiveness of it's products. @runlong3 I brought up the Autism study and have read it in it's entirety. I have a bachelors and 2 masters degrees in Special Education as well as being a national board certified teacher and National Board Certified Behavior Analyst specifying in Autism and related developmental delays. People hear about the study one time and use it as their mantra to not vaccinate, but didn't have the fortitude to read any additional information about the study and its RETRACTION. Parents should not feel that they did somethng caused their child's disability.
That's my soap box and I'll stay on it.
I believe that a lot of doctors (not all) have a huge stake in getting their patients vaccinated. I'm also sure that Thomas Wakefield will not be the only one to lose his license for speaking against them
I believe that a lot of doctors (not all) have a huge stake in getting their patients vaccinated. I'm also sure that Thomas Wakefield will not be the only one to lose his license for speaking against them
Why are you willing to believe that "a lot of doctors have a huge stake in getting their patients vaccinated" (and by stake, I assume you mean financial), but you are not willing to believe that guy who started this actually fabricated data for money?
I agree with someone who said it earlier, this is such a privileged problem. Most people live till we're 80, our children most likely don't die of childhood diseases, etc... So we invent histeria to feed off of. Sigh.
I for one am a bit enlightened by all the informative, positive, knowledge backed info shared here. Maybe THATS my positive story for the day
I believe that a lot of doctors (not all) have a huge stake in getting their patients vaccinated. I'm also sure that Thomas Wakefield will not be the only one to lose his license for speaking against them
Of course.
Patients who live longer by not dying to preventable diseases keep income steady.
Oh. And that whole Hippocratic Oath thing
"I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.:"
I suggest you grab your tinfoil hat and go someplace where science is a four letter word, because it certainly isn't here.
I will do them but honestly it scares me and I don't understand why so much crap has to be put in them. In general I'm very organic, try not to take medicines (but will if absolutely needed). Im certainly not anti western medicine but just try my best to be natural as much as possible. The reason vaccines worry me is because I know someone who's 18 month old went in for some routine ones, and ended up violently sick that night. She was admitted to the hospital and told she had a bad reaction to the vaccines but was stable and fine now. They took her home and the next morning she was worse so they took her back in and she ended up passing away in the hospital. Ever since then it's a huge worry for me but at the same time, we are so lucky to have vaccines. Look at what happened with the measles thing. What if that were polio or something even worse coming back? Since I know cases like my friends are extremely rare, I'll do it... But I'll certainly be nervous when the time comes
Being nervous about what's in the vaccines is reasonable, I mean the term "mam bear" comes from somewhere right? Unless you studied them extensively I don't think you should be expected to know the details 100%. However, this is where we have to place the trust in those who have done the work and the research. I think the biggest thing that you mentioned is how rare the extreme cases actually are. I mean the odds of an everyday tragic accident are much greater.
One thing that helped ease my mind when I was doing the research was that the ingredients that are used are negligible. Aluminum, for example, is something like 4.4 milligrams in the first 6 months - they get more than that in their diet alone.
Thank you, I didn't know that it was in such small amounts. Also thanks to the other poster before you who mentioned similar facts. I do need to read up more on it and maybe that will make me feel better about it but I know I'll do it either way. I just like to have all the information.
So he's in jail for writing a flawed study? Interesting
Now I'm ready to offer an opinion. His study was not flawed. It was fabricated and he had financial motivation to make such a claim. And his claim wasn't against all vaccines, just the MMR. He is in jail not for making a scientific claim, but for the abuse of children with Autism and other developmental delays. Lying to create public hysteria is not brave. Also, the fact that money is made off of vaccines is irrelevant. Money is made off of carseats, but we use them without a doubt. Money is made off of formula sales, but people don't have a problem using it. Money is made off of the antibiotics you took the last time you were sick, but I'm sure you preferred that over your tonsilitis. Money is made off of cancer treatments, but people accept that in order to increase their likelyhood of survival. The reality is that the healthcare in the U.S. is a money making system, but that doesn't nulify the effectiveness of it's products. @runlong3 I brought up the Autism study and have read it in it's entirety. I have a bachelors and 2 masters degrees in Special Education as well as being a national board certified teacher and National Board Certified Behavior Analyst specifying in Autism and related developmental delays. People hear about the study one time and use it as their mantra to not vaccinate, but didn't have the fortitude to read any additional information about the study and its RETRACTION. Parents should not feel that they did somethng caused their child's disability.
That's my soap box and I'll stay on it.
And now I love you too.
Also
Someone else beat me to it, but if you get your news from Natural News, there is nothing I can do to help you.
My beautiful boy, born 7/2014 Newb expected 4/6/2016
I find it sad and disheartening that I post links to such a horrible story shared by a woman just like any of us and all any of you do/say is discredit the source. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a brainwashed twilight zone! This will be my last comment. Thanks to many of you for your input
I find it sad and disheartening that I post links to such a horrible story shared by a woman just like any of us and all any of you do/say is discredit the source. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a brainwashed twilight zone! This will be my last comment. Thanks to many of you for your input
I will apologize for not reading the title of the article. Natural News is not a credible source and I still stand by that so I didn't even bother. That being said, I don't think anyone would wish any death of any kind on anyone else regardless of their stance on an issue.
Reading the article there is a quote stating that vaccines cause autism... which has been debunked a long time ago. I don't doubt that a family tragically lost their baby and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
If you actually read it the child received triple doses of every vaccine in one go.
My beautiful boy, born 7/2014 Newb expected 4/6/2016
Vaccinations all the way! But that is all the way up to mom if that's what they want for their baby.
That would be ok, except those who do not vaccinate endanger the lives of babies that are too young to vaccinate or kids who are immunocomprised (have cancer, etc.)
The sad truth is that people are more likely to read articles and information that support the side they believe in. If you really do want to make the most informed decision for your child, read reputable arguments from BOTH camps. Literally anyone can have a website and they can post whatever they want without it being checked for accuracy. However, scientific journals have a strict peer review process that eliminates most of the incorrect information. Moral of the story, we all have at least 30 weeks to do complete research on the topic. Read arguments that support both sides and make sure you are reading reputable information. (Also, his name is Andrew Wakefield, not Thomas.)
I believe that a lot of doctors (not all) have a huge stake in getting their patients vaccinated. I'm also sure that Thomas Wakefield will not be the only one to lose his license for speaking against them
Actually sometimes we loose money by choosing to provide patients with vaccines. Sometimes insurance doesn't pay what we paid initially for the vaccine so it counts as a loss. I work for a private practice and that statement is very far from the truth at least in my office
There's a pretty good episode of Sci Show about that breaks down the psychology behind the anti-vaccine movement (e.g., cognitive bias, omission bias, naturalness bias). Kind of nerdy, but also kind of awesome.
There's a pretty good episode of Sci Show about that breaks down the psychology behind the anti-vaccine movement (e.g., cognitive bias, omission bias, naturalness bias). Kind of nerdy, but also kind of awesome.
I will be vaccinating my children, no doubt. I will also add a personal side to this. I have low rubella immunity meaning that my health and the health of my unborn child is dependent on herd immunity. I can't get the vaccine while pregnant because it's a live vaccine. If there is a rubella outbreak there is a real risk that I could contract it. This could mean that my baby could have deformities or defects. I rely on everyone around me to be immune to protect me. I was pro vaccine before (because, you know, science) but now it's personal and could impact my baby's life forever.
No, vaccines don't cause autism. The ingredients people freak out about (aluminium, mercury etc) are trace ingredients that are found in every day food. There is more aluminium in breastmilk than vaccines. Sodium chloride can sound scary but it's table salt. It's about educating yourself about chemistry OR asking an expert (read: not a naturopath, chiropractor or quack but someone with a degree in microbiology, chemistry, virology etc)
I don't understand why anyone would delay the Tetanus shot. There's no "herd immunity" with tetanus bc it's a non-communicable illness. It's caused by a neurotoxin made by a specific kind of bacteria. The bacteria live anywhere. Babies born to mothers who have not had a recent tetanus shot can get neonatal tetanus just from their umbilical cord stump being exposed to tetanus. Happens all the time in developing countries.
Correct me if I am wrong, didn't Wakefield even admit that he fabricated the article's results?
Also I hate the argument that there are only 100 cases of polio a year (or whatever number was argued). WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK THE NUMBER IS SO LOW?!?!? It's because people vaccinate!
Also, if you're not going to trust Dr's on this, then I am going to assume you are never going to see a one. I mean if you don't trust their knowledge on this, you certainly can't trust any of their medical knowledge. Dr. Google it is!
Re: vaccines
Redness at injection site can happen. Put an ice pack on it . The end. Also it's documented ( or should be if the nurse knows what the hell she is doing ) what shot was given where so it can be determined which one caused an issue. Shots should not all be given in the same place at once. Example : kid gets 4 shots. It will be documented something like
MMR - LLT
Varicella - LUT
Pediarix- RLT
IPV- RLT
Left lower thigh , right upper thigh etc......
However spacing them out a week or so isn't an awful idea but I'd rather get them done at once than put them through that pain that many separate times
Some science behind how it works: https://textbookofbacteriology.net/immune.html
BFP 8.14.15 ~~ Due 4.22.16
Go Governor Brown!
This is about public health which trumps all.
The scientific/medical community is united, and the overwhelming majority of lay people are in favor of vaccines (95-99%+ except in certain rarified hippie areas and non-mainstream
communities)
I am a hippie natural mama myself and I was ALMOST led astray by the dangerous misinformation of the antivaxxers.
It's not a debate. It's not cloth vs disposable. It's not breast or bottle. It's not work outside the home or SAHM. It's not babywear or stroller. It's not crib or cosleep. It's not purées or baby led weaning. It's life or death.
It's life or death for those too young or medically unable to be vaccinated.
Vaccinate your kids unless there is a legitimate medical reason they cannot be.
So much yes.
This just feels like such a privileged problem to have. There are so many men and women in so many other parts of the world that would walk miles and stand in lines for hours just to provide their babies with the best chance at survival (in the face of these preventable diseases) and yet we, who have access to these relatively inexpensively and incredibly conveniently, just decide that "no, I'd like to not have that thank you". It wouldn't even be a debate in most parts of the world.
And I'm with you, in a lot of ways I am a "crunchy" mama, but honestly, being on the crunchy forums has left a bad taste in my mouth with all the misinformation and blatant believing of anything as long as it's the opposite of science.
My beautiful boy, born 7/2014
Newb expected 4/6/2016
yhttps://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/01/07/infant-hepatitis-b-vaccine.aspx
https://naturematters.info
https://www.naturalnews.com/A-Family-Destroyed-Vaccines-Without-Consent.html
LFAF April Siggy: TV/Movie BFFs
BFP #4 1/2016, DD born 10/2016
I was hoping to hear from both but from my experience, many people who don't vaccinate are so badly shamed and bullied that they don't come forward about it.
BFP 8.14.15 ~~ Due 4.22.16
BFP 8.14.15 ~~ Due 4.22.16
Now I'm ready to offer an opinion. His study was not flawed. It was fabricated and he had financial motivation to make such a claim. And his claim wasn't against all vaccines, just the MMR. He is in jail not for making a scientific claim, but for the abuse of children with Autism and other developmental delays. Lying to create public hysteria is not brave. Also, the fact that money is made off of vaccines is irrelevant. Money is made off of carseats, but we use them without a doubt. Money is made off of formula sales, but people don't have a problem using it. Money is made off of the antibiotics you took the last time you were sick, but I'm sure you preferred that over your tonsilitis. Money is made off of cancer treatments, but people accept that in order to increase their likelyhood of survival. The reality is that the healthcare in the U.S. is a money making system, but that doesn't nulify the effectiveness of it's products. @runlong3 I brought up the Autism study and have read it in it's entirety. I have a bachelors and 2 masters degrees in Special Education as well as being a national board certified teacher and National Board Certified Behavior Analyst specifying in Autism and related developmental delays. People hear about the study one time and use it as their mantra to not vaccinate, but didn't have the fortitude to read any additional information about the study and its RETRACTION. Parents should not feel that they did somethng caused their child's disability. That's my soap box and I'll stay on it.
I agree with someone who said it earlier, this is such a privileged problem. Most people live till we're 80, our children most likely don't die of childhood diseases, etc... So we invent histeria to feed off of. Sigh.
I for one am a bit enlightened by all the informative, positive, knowledge backed info shared here. Maybe THATS my positive story for the day
One thing that helped ease my mind when I was doing the research was that the ingredients that are used are negligible. Aluminum, for example, is something like 4.4 milligrams in the first 6 months - they get more than that in their diet alone.
Thank you, I didn't know that it was in such small amounts. Also thanks to the other poster before you who mentioned similar facts. I do need to read up more on it and maybe that will make me feel better about it but I know I'll do it either way. I just like to have all the information.
Also
Someone else beat me to it, but if you get your news from Natural News, there is nothing I can do to help you.
My beautiful boy, born 7/2014
Newb expected 4/6/2016
https://mason.gmu.edu/~montecin/web-eval-sites.htm
How to tell if your internet sources are credible.
My beautiful boy, born 7/2014
Newb expected 4/6/2016
Reading the article there is a quote stating that vaccines cause autism... which has been debunked a long time ago. I don't doubt that a family tragically lost their baby and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
If you actually read it the child received triple doses of every vaccine in one go.
My beautiful boy, born 7/2014
Newb expected 4/6/2016
2010: Infertility
October 2015: missed miscarriage #2 at 11 weeks (trisomy 22)
No, vaccines don't cause autism. The ingredients people freak out about (aluminium, mercury etc) are trace ingredients that are found in every day food. There is more aluminium in breastmilk than vaccines. Sodium chloride can sound scary but it's table salt. It's about educating yourself about chemistry OR asking an expert (read: not a naturopath, chiropractor or quack but someone with a degree in microbiology, chemistry, virology etc)
Expecting Double Trouble, April 2016
Also I hate the argument that there are only 100 cases of polio a year (or whatever number was argued). WHY THE HELL DO YOU THINK THE NUMBER IS SO LOW?!?!? It's because people vaccinate!
Also, if you're not going to trust Dr's on this, then I am going to assume you are never going to see a one. I mean if you don't trust their knowledge on this, you certainly can't trust any of their medical knowledge. Dr. Google it is!