Newborn Sleep Question for Seasoned Mamas

missmychard · June 2015

FTM here. I know I may be overthinking this, and I welcome that possibility. That being said, I can't stop thinking about how to make sure that my baby is a good sleeper. I've been on these boards long enough to know that some people will say that there's nothing you can do, you either have a good sleeper or you don't. My mom says we were both great sleepers, and if you expect that your baby will sleep then they will sleep. So a part of me just wants to follow my baby's lead, feed on demand, etc., and hope for the best. But I don't want to do things that may be creating bad habits from the beginning if I can avoid it. For example, a friend of mine would always go into her baby's room whenever he fussed to put his pacifier back in his mouth, fix his swaddle, or bring him into her bed if he wouldn't stop fussing. He's 13 months and she is STILL up in the middle of the night with him and he ends up in her bed often. I have to believe there's something she could have done/be doing differently to avoid this.

I guess I'm wondering if there's anyone who swears by a particular method or trick they used, or has advice beyond "you have no control"! Thanks in advance:)

Miz_Liz · June 2015

I am putting this baby down AWAKE! We still struggle with sleep with DS who is almost 3 now and I think a huge part of that is we used to always rock him/cuddle him to sleep and then put him down. It has been a living hell. We have come a long way, but he is still not insanely easy to put down and he still wakes a lot at night. I think allowing baby to learn how to fall asleep on their own at a very early age goes a long way (at least I hope it will!).

jesselayne8 · June 2015

I swear sometimes you just get lucky! I EBF both kids on demand, both slept in their own rooms, no pacis, etc. DD STTN a at 6wks and other than 3 weeks of craziness during the 4 month wakeful she was been an amazing sleeper. DS is the total opposite. He didn't STTN until 11 months old and then he only STTN sporadically. Now that he is in a twin bed he is up 1-3x a night. I had no choice but to move him out of the crib at 19 months because he was climbing in and out.

Edit: I put both kids down awake as much as possible. I actually didn't start this rocking DS nonsense until we moved him to a bed.

PurpleBookmark · June 2015

Every baby is very different. I know that's not the answer you want to hear but it's true. This will be my third and from my experience and others that I know I think you need to relax and do what works for you. Some kids are more high maintenance than others and the worst thing you can do is judge yourself or others for not doing the "right" thing.

ETA: Not that you're judging, just don't feel bad if you end up doing some of the things your friend does. You never know what will work for you, just do your best!

lvrunningirlie · June 2015

We used the cry it out method starting around 5 months and writhing a week he was sleep trained. He went to sleep on his own, slept through the night, and still sleeps great. I know that method isn't for everyone, but it worked wonderfully for us. I think the book is called "solve your child's sleep problems". It's not nearly as heartless as it seems, and we had a video monitor to make sure he wasn't crying for safety reasons. Like I said, not for everyone but we'll be using it again.

bpwife&mama · June 2015

I just stick to a routine and always have. Bedtime is no surprise for DS because it's the same every night. He's always been an amazing sleeper.

e1223 · June 2015

I do think you just get lucky, BUT there are things you can do to help - not with a newborn necessarily, but maybe around like..... 6 weeks or so?? I read a ton of sleep books because I found it fascinating, even though my first was (and is) an awesome sleeper. My second, doing the exact same stuff, didn't sleep through the night until a year old (however he was fine at putting himself to sleep) - they both are great now though! (at 3 and 5, and have been awesome for a long time - like 12+ hours a night straight every single night).

The books I liked the most were Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, and Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems - we never had to do straight up cry-it-out but I wouldn't hesitate to do that after 6 months if necessary.

CaliforniaDream87 · June 2015

PurpleBookmark said:

ETA: Not that you're judging, just don't feel bad if you end up doing some of the things your friend does. You never know what will work for you, just do your best!

This is so very important to remember. Seriously.

In regards to sleep I got blessed with a "sparkler" (difficult baby). We did everything we could except "cry it out" as I don't support that method at all and we prefer a more gentler approach. I will say where we went wrong was with what @Miz_Liz pointed out. We didn't put him to be "sleepy while awake". We plan to do that this time around. I think for us it was a first time experience and we really had no idea how to handle such a difficult little dude. Every baby really is different. Some babies sleep. Some don't. Can you work on it? Absolutely. You just have to do what works for you and baby.

LilLee11 · June 2015

I think you've been given good advice already from the girls above! I think a schedule and routine is sooooo important. I don't remember the last time my kids bedtime wasn't 7pm. Now that they're older they don't fall asleep right away so they'll read or whatever. But for the most part they sleep until 7/730am.

For newborns I really think eat, play, sleep is magical. Even if they're only awake for 5 minutes. It's hard to keep them awake sometimes!

This is a schedule someone shared on the bump back in 2010 when I had DD. I have it saved still bc it's an excellent guide!!

Awake Times
Guideline for Awake time for babies
0-4 weeks: 30-45 minutes
4-6 weeks: 40-60 minutes
6-8 weeks: 40-70 minutes
8-12 weeks: 50-80 minutes
3-4 months: 60-90 minutes
4-5 months: 1 hr to 1.5 hrs
5-6 months: 1.5 hours
6-9 months: 2 hours, give or take 15 minutes

kettlekitten · June 2015

Please don't listen to other people when they say 'I did this and my baby slept through.' Especially your mother! It was a long time ago she had her kids. My mother has made me feel bad about this from day 1 (not intentionally) because she 'never had a problem getting her babies to sleep.' It doesn't matter what worked for other people as it may not work for you - you can only try things and see how they go. To me, it is really a matter of luck. For example a friend of mine and I tried the same method at about 4 months. Since then her DS has slept through 12 hours a night. The method didn't work for my DD.

I do agree that you should try and avoid putting baby down asleep (at a reasonable age, like not a newborn baby), but we couldn't do that for some time because our baby screamed for hours every night from the day she arrived and I felt she was too little to leave. We tried Tizzie Hall's method at age 6 months. It sort of worked (she slept longer) but she still screamed for hours before falling asleep. Truly awful. Every time teething or illness comes along we have sleep regressions. Others will tell you 'I think sleep disturbance due to teething is a myth.' GGRRRR. Maybe for your kid!!

We have tried the soft approach, the controlled crying approach, every goddamn approach and nothing has stuck - it is definitely not for lack of consistency or routine, whatever anyone says, because every method we have tried, we have stuck at for months on end. I have pretty much always made sure she was home in her bed for naps too. It really took two years for her to start sleeping better and even now we still struggle with sleep stuff - and now, she does fall asleep by herself a lot of the time so it's not that we are always in there soothing her to sleep.

It really annoys me when people say you should just do 'X' and you won't have a problem - I'm referring here to ppl I know in person and not PPs BTW - because all babies are just so different. Mothers of 'sparklers' will agree with me I'm sure!

PixelPosy · June 2015

I do know we were blessed with a "good" sleeper. But I think a lot of sleep issues stem from lack of sleep. Try an earlier bedtime. DD was going to bed at 6 when I went back to work, which really stunk, because I had such little awake time with her, but she was also sleeping through the night for the most part and needed her 12 hours. We needed her up by 6 to get out the door and to work on time. So we had to sacrifice awake time with her to give her what she needed. A lot of our friends thought we were nuts for putting her to bed that early.

She's 2.5 now and still sleeps 11 hours at night with a 2-2.5 hour mid day nap typically. Bedtime is 8 and she is up at 7 now a days. We stick to that schedule even on the weekends. Putting her to bed later does not equal her getting up later.

I agree a routine is very important, keep it simple though! And put baby to bed sleepy not asleep. If you plan to nurse/feed as part of the bedtime routine make it the first or second step in your routine instead of last.

Here's a nice sleep chart for all ages for total amount of sleep needed, meaning nighttime plus naps: https://www.webmd.com/parenting/guide/sleep-children

kettlekitten · June 2015

^^this is definitely true (sleep begets sleep) but I've showed DD the sleep charts and she doesn't agree or wish to conform

CaliforniaDream87 · June 2015

@kettlekitten don't you love those "hers the magic sleep solution for your baby since you've been doing it for so long" women? I totally agree with your response. Some babies just won't sleep no matter what you do. Solution? Well there really isn't one.

cosplaymom · June 2015

Everyone's baby is different! If one method doesn't work, try something else. Routine is key - find the routine that works and stick with it.

My daughter was a pretty good sleeper and started sleeping through the night early. She was a happy, easy baby. We did not put her down awake though, we rocked or walked her to sleep, then carefully transferred her to the crib. Usually she had a bottle or nursed first, sometimes falling asleep while nursing. We did not use a pacifier. We used Aden & Anais swaddling blankets and wrapped her up tight!

She did rely on having milk before bed... Now I just make sure she has milk before brushing her teeth. We still hold her in the chair until she falls asleep, then put her down. This is a hassle, but it works and sometimes it doesn't take very long. The main problem we have now is that she is not good at putting herself to sleep so I'm having trouble transitioning her to a twin bed. I'm considering trying soft music.

She sleeps very well, maybe wakes in the middle of the night once every two weeks, seems like a bad dream though.

hclzmm14 · June 2015

I started a bedtime routine early at about 3 months or so. My DD came out of the womb wanting to STTN but we wanted to make sure we kept it that way. So bedtime routine helps, plus we always put her to bed awake like some PPs said.

One thing that is important to remember is around 4-5 months they will start to wake in the night and can fuss a little bit. This is normal. We took the approach of letting her fuss for about five minutes before going in to settle her, and usually she would soothe herself back to sleep. As she got a little older the limit would be ten minutes unless she was full on screaming bloody murder. I guess this would fall under CIO, but I would never let her cry if it sounded serious or as though she needed comfort. I also weaned from the pacifier at 5 months so she would not become dependent on that for falling back asleep in the middle of the night since she either couldn't put it back in her own mouth or wouldn't be able to find it. This helped her to find other ways to soothe.

These days she is 15 months and STTN almost always unless she is teething or sick. I'm hoping that DD2 will also be a naturally good sleeper and these techniques will work with her, but every baby is different and I certainly expect a challenge this go around

Good luck to all of us!

breezymeema7 · June 2015

I am a big believer in routine and putting baby down drowsy but not asleep. That said, every baby is different. DD1 was and still is a great napper. DD2 was much better at nighttime and always had junky naps.

ptelfra · June 2015

I'm also a FTM and these posts are all extremely helpful. I plan on trying the whole putting them to bed sleepy and letting them fall asleep on their own and definitely with a bed time but at what point do you start this? At about how many weeks?

Perfect Sonnet · June 2015

I don't really think you can mess up the sleeping habits with a newborn. When they're first born, in my opinion you have to meet their every demand, feed on demand, rock them to sleep, etc. I think it is a matter of phasing those types of responses out as they get older and better at self-soothing and understanding that just because you're not coming doesn't mean they won't ever get fed or held again.

My three year old has always gone through sleep phases. With each bad phase we would enable it for a while out of desperation and then eventual tackle it when we got desperate. I think with sleep (as with anything baby/kid related) it is a matter of solving issues as they come up...because there will always be issues

bhargrave88 · June 2015

Routine routine routine! Then go with the flow. DD has had one since we came home from the hospital nearly 3 years ago now! She was EBF for months, but she did STTN around 6 months. And still does unless she has a cold or bad dream .

things I never do: let her fall asleep in my bed
Cuddle or rock her to sleep, I will cuddle or Rock her for 10 minutes to relax her or calm her, but I refuse to do it til she falls asleep (then I place her in her bed, tell her goodnight, I love her, and close her door almost all the way).

My husband and I felt they are better off in their own space (we have a queen size and both of us sprawl out to where we bump each other lol no room for kiddos!!) and that they need to learn to figure out how to soothe themselves to sleep. If she cried I would go see what was wrong. If nothing was, I repeated the steps above and went back to bed.

I feel very strongly about routines for kids. And in our case, it seems to work

Now, she does struggle with falling asleep for naps and at night sometimes but she's 2.5 and she has autism and so I'm thankful that she even sleeps through the night at that rate because I've heard stories of autistic kids who can't and don't sleep well.. I'd rather struggle with her taking awhile to fall asleep than her not to sleep!! I need to get some chamomile and diffuse in her room..

ellie22343 · June 2015

Someone suggested to me that I bf more during the day, to make sure baby isn't waking up at night so much due to hunger. In other words, for those ebfing assume that baby's first need when fussy is eating, especially when very new.

ElleMF728 · June 2015

I think establishing good habits is really important for future sleep behavior. However, don't expect those habits to turn into good sleep overnight. DS was a crummy sleeper from day 1, in fact my mom used to be really positive about it to me but now that he is older will admit that he was a rough one. He was a cat napper and woke up every 2.5 hours on the hour until he was about 4 and half months old.

We did everything the "experts" said to do, I stuck by my wake windows religiously, my life revolved around his schedule. I swaddled, white noise, black out shades, wake to sleep, we did drowsy but awake, bedtime routine every night, baby massage etc. Seriously, you name it I tried it and stuck with it. My entire world was focused on sleep which was ironic since I wasn't getting any. Then one day, almost overnight, something "clicked" in his head and my crappy sleeper started taking naps longer than 35 minutes and only waking once a night. The truth is that some babies just aren't developed enough to successfully navigate through a whole sleep cycle until they are a bit older.

That strict bedtime and routine did come in handy but not until he was ready for it, he is an amazing sleeper now and has been since about 10 months old. With this LO I'm determined to accept him for whatever kind of sleeper he is rather than spending ever waking moment obsessed with turning him into the type of sleeper I want him to be.

ambah · June 2015

I was told a babies circadium rhythm does not start/develop until 3 months. So for us and until then enjoy the cuddles and letting him or her sleep where ever. At 3 months is when we started sleep training, where we did the cry it out method, putting her asleep when she was still awake and I agree with routine and being consistent!!
However, babies are going to sleep or not sleep no matter what you do. My advice regardless is always stick to routine and be consistent.
But I would say until 3 months, enjoy the newborn stage, it goes so quick!!

Starynightsky24 · June 2015

As PP's said, a bedtime routine is important. At least, that's worked for us. I'm prepared to throw it out the window if it doesn't work for DD though.

I am NOT a fan of CIO or any form of "sleep training". Especially before age 1. Babies do not know object permanence yet and do not understand the concept... IMO.

I started a bedtime routine for DS at 4 weeks old. At that time I was nursing him to sleep. Because I felt like that's what he needed. Around 5mo I started laying him down awake, in Marlins Magic Sleep Suit with white noise on my phone. We had been using white noise to help sooth him for a while, so I knew it helped. He would just lay there and fall asleep. It was heaven. He still woke up often in the night... But at least it was easy to put him back down!

Around a year I weaned him from all of that and would just rub his back while he fell asleep. Then it got to where I could just sit in his room... Last week (22mo old) I started laying him down (awake of course) and leaving. He doesn't cry and never has to fall asleep.

He didn't start to STTN till I stopped breastfeeding around 15mo. But I didn't mind getting up with him. It was only 1x or 2x unless he was sick.

That's what worked for me. With one child.

deviduke412 · June 2015

Baby Wise! Read it. I swear by it.

KMBC2552 · June 2015

There is no magical solution. Every baby is so different. I've had two that are polar opposites in the sleep department. There would not be hundreds of different books and methods promoting their sleep solution if one thing worked for every child. That being said, to better our chances I plan on swaddling, putting the baby down awake/trying not to nurse to sleep, not keeping them in the rock and play as long/moving to the crib sooner. But it's all really a crap shoot. We won't know the hand we are dealt until we receive it.

Also, because I have two young kids already I have to accept the fact that sticking to a schedule might not always be possible for us. This baby will probably be sleeping on the go and in the ergo quite a bit. There is just no getting around that when you have other schedules to abide by.

chavemann10 · June 2015

I know after reading this, I will be looking into "sleep training". With DD#1, I BF on demand at all hours of the day and night, but was able to be a SAHM for the first year so it didn't seem like a big deal to me. Fast forward and she is now almost 3 and does not sleep in her own room unless extremely exhausted, and usually wakes up atleast once a night. I will be going back to work after 12wks with this baby, so sleep training is a MUST. Initially we will be putting both baby and our DD#1 in our room for the first few weeks, then gradually move baby to their room, and PRAY that DD#1 wants to sleep in her room with the baby. Fingers CROSSED!

missmychard · June 2015

So many great responses and suggestions. Thank you, ladies!

jessandandy09 · June 2015

this will be my 4th baby and each one was totally different! My first two were colicky and did not sleep for the first 6 months. I did everything the same with my 3rd baby and she started sleeping in 4 hour spurts, getting up to eat at night and going back to sleep for another 4 hours at about 6 weeks.

I will not practice the cry it out method as I believe in using gentler approaches. I do soothe on demand and EBF for the first 6 weeks, then pumping and bottles are added as I return to work.

I think establishing a routine is key. bath, baby massage with lotion, dark room for rocking/nursing and NOISE in the room. Believe it or not, there is constant noise in your womb and the baby is actually comforted by constant sounds. This worked like a charm with number 3. the first two, it seemed to soothe them but the poor babies had HORRIBLE gas and they just couldn't sleep soundly. we would be up every 2 hours or so and be nursing or taking gas drops and rocking. UHG. Good luck to you.

WSatisfiedP · June 2015

I think you should talk with a pediatrician you trust. Our ped adamantly believed that any sort of sleep training and CIO methods were developmentally damaging before 6 months of age. We chose to follow his direction and didn't use those methods.

ammc07 · June 2015

My daughter was colicky, had acid reflux, and pretty much cried all the time no matter what. She hated to sleep regardless of what I did. She's almost 5 now and she just started to go to bed on her own about 6 months ago. We tried everything under the sun and then one day we were all sitting in the living room, she walked over to DH and I and gave us a kiss and walked into her room to go to bed. We thought it was a fluke but it's fairly normal routine now.
I'm hoping this baby is a good sleeper because DD wasn't, but I'm also trying to mentally prepare myself for another kid that hates sleeping.

sorensensm24 · June 2015

Our doc recommended we follow the EASY routine even as a newborn...

Eat
Activity
Sleep
You (time for yourself!)

breezymeema7 · June 2015

sorensensm24 said:

Our doc recommended we follow the EASY routine even as a newborn... Eat Activity Sleep You (time for yourself!)

I have followed that routine with both kiddos and I love it. It works well for my family.

cg0112358 · June 2015

Lol, I don't know if anything you do or in my case, anything I do matters. My two are as different as night and day.

With #1 (DS) I did what everyone said b/c I didn't know any better. With DD2 I used my intuition.

DD1 born 8/3/10
bassinet from day 1 and put down sleepy but awake. This was horrible for me. Tried Easy method but didn't have much luck with the sleeping tips. We eventually moved on to using a swing to calm baby or by physically rocking him and the transfer to their crib.

I attempted to BF with DS but he wouldn't latch so I pumped (we made it 6 months)
but supplemented with cereal at 4 months (with pedi approval). He was a bad sleeper and still is in terms of going to sleep on his own. Also, he ate A LOT. His food diaries shoes him at 40-50 Oz of BF/FF plus starting at 6 months he was also eating 15-20 Oz of pureed char food

DD1 born 8/17/13
She slept next to the bed in a rock'n'play for the first few months, nursed or rocked to sleep for all naps, and EBF. She was sleeping 6 to 6 every night with 2-3 naps every day. She's had brief periods of poor sleep but even those nights were great compared to DS's sleep. At this time, 22 months, she stays in her crib from 8 pm to 7 am every night. She gets put down wide awake after her evening routine and generally lays down quietly then falls asleep within 15-30 minutes. She also takes 1-2 naps daily, nap times vary depending on # of naps, activity level, etc. In general she probably naps for 2-3.5 hours per day but sometimes longer.

ETA: grammatical errors/punctuation might not be great. Very tired and keypad is kinda starting to swim...

kettlekitten · June 2015

Hmm. FTMs, don't listen to someone telling you some method is 'damaging.' My options were (a) sleep training or (b) throw myself off a bridge. I took option (a). You don't do it for the fun of it. You do it because you are desperate and can't take another night of getting up every hour on the hour. I haven't enjoyed doing it but it has been worth it for preserving everyone's health and mental wellbeing. Even though sleep can still be crappy, the sleep training stuff helps. My DD is a bright, chatty, lovely little spark and I won't tolerate anyone saying I have 'damaged' her.

Some good advice coming from the mums of two or more children who have had very different experiences to date... It just goes to show how different they can all be even with the same carers using the same methods.

msmolecule · June 2015

DS, who is now 7, slept next to my bed in the bassinet for the first 5 months. I would swaddle him up tight and then lay down in bed with him snuggled up to my chest while I watched TV until he fell asleep, then I would put him in the bassinet. Bedtime was *the same time every night*. No matter what. By the time he was 5ish months, he knew what to expect.

He went to bed at the same time every night for the first 4 years of his life. When he started kindergarten at age 5, I started putting him to bed one hour later during the summer because the sun went down later. Then I would switch back to the original time in the winter when it gets dark earlier. When he started 1st grade at age 6, I increased his overall bedtime by 1 hour. Now at age 7, his bedtime is 8pm in the winter and 9pm in the summer. No exceptions. I have never had trouble with getting him to bed. Now though, he does stay up a bit later to read (he's reading the second Harry Potter book at the moment), but he is quiet and content so I don't bother him about it.

Huler · June 2015

e1223 said:

I do think you just get lucky, BUT there are things you can do to help - not with a newborn necessarily, but maybe around like..... 6 weeks or so?? I read a ton of sleep books because I found it fascinating, even though my first was (and is) an awesome sleeper. My second, doing the exact same stuff, didn't sleep through the night until a year old (however he was fine at putting himself to sleep) - they both are great now though! (at 3 and 5, and have been awesome for a long time - like 12+ hours a night straight every single night).

The books I liked the most were Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child, and Solve Your Child's Sleep Problems - we never had to do straight up cry-it-out but I wouldn't hesitate to do that after 6 months if necessary.

Ditto both of these. I read these books and did a combo of both of them. My boys were always good sleepers once they hit 6 weeks adjusted age.

As for newborns, I would put them to sleep barely awake... they always woke and I would feed them straightaway bc they never pooped until they were being fed. So the routine every three hours was basically wake, eat, poop, change, bed. They would always fall asleep during or towards the end of the feed, but the diaper change was enough to rouse them a little so they went back to their bed (or bouncer for refluxy DS2) sleepy but awake.

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