Circumcision decision

klairv · April 2015

In a nutshell: I had my son a few months ago and I was all set to get him circumcised, when my husband said he wasn’t so sure right before we were gonna have the baby. Wait what?! OMG that stressed me out like crazy at the last minute! So, April Mamas, the last minute is not too late

Anyway, I did some research:

The foreskin is much more than a flap of skin. It has lots of nerves in it designed for sexual pleasure. It's also designed to protect the glans (tip of the penis) and keep it moist, much like your eyelid protects your eye. Without this protective covering, the penis dries out and keratinizes (that means it gets a callous on it). If that sounds bad it’s because it is. There are some serious claims that it may be a factor in ED, but who’s gonna pay for that study? Not Pfizer, that’s for sure! (They make Viagra) Now some organizations claim it’s still a good idea to circumcise, but the health claims are super flimsy. Most global health organizations recommend against genital cutting.

It used to be that most people were circumcised in the US and so no one questioned it. Men didn’t know what they were missing. Now rates are going down. Boys these days are growing up with tons information available to them on the internet. Circumcised boys are learning that the most sensitive part of the penis has been taken from them and many of them are very upset. Many are trying to re-grow their foreskins. (Yeah, I didn’t know that either!) Many are confronting their parents about how they feel. This isn't like when our husbands grew up and nobody knew any better.

Also, in babies, the foreskin is fused to the tip of the penis like your fingernail to your nail. That means doctors need to first rip it apart and then slice off the foreskin. Often, the raw bleeding tip of the penis tries to re-fuse back to the foreskin causing adhesions or skin bridges. (Warning, do not Google on a full stomach.) If you were told your baby slept through the procedure you were lied to. The best pain management available for a circumcision is called a dorsal nerve block and it only covers one of the two main nerves running down the penis. Often babies are given a simple sugar pacifier (I'm not even kidding) or lidocaine cream. The procedure is always painful! I watched some videos, but I couldn’t watch much. I don’t have the stomach for that. You can google them on YouTube.

I wish someone had told me this stuff! I was THIS CLOSE to having my son permanently damaged. I think that’s why I’m so ticked off and want to share this with you. I realize that many of you here have made your decision and that’s fine, but I sure wish someone had told me. Because I’d rather hear it from some crazy random stranger on the internet than from my 14 year old son asking me why he can’t be fixed.

In the end I agree with the consensus that is usually on these threads. It is a personal decision. It's just that there is only one person who should make the decision: the owner of the penis.

astrat017 · April 2015

You are opening up a real can of worms here and think you should just stop now. I personally don't want to hear you tell me how I have damaged my son and that you should save your agenda for people who want to hear it.

taahira · April 2015

@astrat017 I completely agree with you.

thing3ontheway · April 2015

Yes. Not a good idea and to call other babies damaged for having it done? Not cool.

Pix3lle · April 2015

Firstly, don't believe every article online. It sounds like that particular article is very biased to not having it
done, sounds more like opinionated document and not medical fact, in other words i
wouldn't take it seriously in the slightest!

There are pro's and Con's to both having it done and not having it done.
If it's not too late, i'd probably take this post down personally because it wont start a well structured discussion on why/ why not when it refers to circumcised babies as damaged....

pistachio&blush · April 2015

:-q

jerseymommatobe · April 2015

Lurking from may. This person has posted this on several month boards. I'd say ignore this and let this go off the first page.

meredith6484 · April 2015

It's a sanitary and safe procedure. You're crazy to think it's a bad idea. of your son's sexual pleasure is an issue for you ..... seek therapy.

klairv · April 2015

Isn't perhaps leaving him be perfect as he was born less strange than wanting him surgically altered?

If you want to ignore me or be rude to me by all means, I'm a big girl. I tried to be informative but also understanding when I wrote my story. I'm sorry I missed the mark there at the end.

Yes, I shared my experience on a few boards with moms who are about to have babies. I did not think that posting on my month board where the babies are a few months old would have been very constructive. The September mommies in particular were very sweet!

Here is my perspective: I'm ashamed to admit that I researched my stroller more than my sons circumcision. I don't think I'm alone. I just didn't know what I didn't know! If I had found out afterward what I know now, I, myself, would personally have been very angry. I am glad someone reached out to me at the last minute and told me that there is a lot to know: particularly about the foreskin and it's function. That's why I posted here before most of you have your babies.

For those of you who are confident in your decisions, great! Ignore this. I know that for me these boards were very helpful in learning and sharing with other moms. There may be some moms reading right now thinking: "wow, I didn't know that. Maybe I'd like to learn more about the foreskin." That's ok too I think.

amaryxmas · April 2015

I'm having mine snipped. No apologies as I don't feel bad about it one bit. The benefits outweigh the risk in my eyes. I respect anyone's decision to leave natural, its just not the choice for me.

mrsmeyer419 · April 2015

Is it really something you feel like your son is going to wonder about when he's older?? Just out of curiosity, how many men have you met or been with sexually and they were like I wish my parents hadn't circumcised me. I understand why you posted it, I don't agree with some of the wording as it does make it sound like you don't feel like babies who have been snipped are as good as those who haven't been. But I just don't see it being something many boys care about as they get older if it's all they've ever known. I'm having a girl so I really haven't looked into it, but isn't it more sanitary for them to be circumcised

klairv · April 2015

mrsmeyer419 Actually that's a lot of what got me started on this journey of finding out about it. I ran into a lot of stories from guys who are upset they were circumcised.

Here is one guy's story. It's from a Facebook page of men who are upset they were circumcised. It has 2,769 likes.

klairv · April 2015

Ugh, sorry about the small pic. You can click to read it. For those who think this is BS, here is the link to the group if you are interested.

https://www.facebook.com/circumcisedmencomplain?fref=ts

I did not know any of this three months ago. I'm not sure I would have believed it at first either.

xuxachi · April 2015

OP you come off a bit strong, but I relate to the struggle of deciding. It's a shame this has to be such a hot issue and there isn't more factual information available on the topic.

klairv · April 2015

@xuxachi You're right and it's too bad it's such an inflammatory issue.

Obviously I'm tech-tarded

Here's there direct link to the story

https://www.facebook.com/SavingOurSons/photos/a.487363627949430.115346.166998263319303/629328270419631/?type=1&theater

tncas · April 2015

klairv said:
Isn't perhaps leaving him be perfect as he was born less strange than wanting him surgically altered?

If you want to ignore me or be rude to me by all means, I'm a big girl. I tried to be informative but also understanding when I wrote my story. I'm sorry I missed the mark there at the end.

Yes, I shared my experience on a few boards with moms who are about to have babies. I did not think that posting on my month board where the babies are a few months old would have been very constructive. The September mommies in particular were very sweet!

Here is my perspective: I'm ashamed to admit that I researched my stroller more than my sons circumcision. I don't think I'm alone. I just didn't know what I didn't know! If I had found out afterward what I know now, I, myself, would personally have been very angry. I am glad someone reached out to me at the last minute and told me that there is a lot to know: particularly about the foreskin and it's function. That's why I posted here before most of you have your babies.

For those of you who are confident in your decisions, great! Ignore this. I know that for me these boards were very helpful in learning and sharing with other moms. There may be some moms reading right now thinking: "wow, I didn't know that. Maybe I'd like to learn more about the foreskin." That's ok too I think.

I am actually quite surprised people reacted so strongly to your post. While I think you could have worded it a bit different to avoid much of this, the information you presented is correct! I have studied anatomy and human sexuality at The University of Texas at Austin and everything you mention was repeated on more than one occasion and in multiple text books. The practice actually began with the Puritans to discourage masterbation.

justme2015 · April 2015

It started way before the Puritans...

nonyaeffinbusiness · April 2015

klairv said:
mrsmeyer419 Actually that's a lot of what got me started on this journey of finding out about it. I ran into a lot of stories from guys who are upset they were circumcised.

Here is one guy's story. It's from a Facebook page of men who are upset they were circumcised. It has 2,769 likes.

It has 2,769 likes? Big deal. There are over a million active Facebook accounts right now. That measly 2,000 says nothing.

amberrmariee20 · April 2015

jerseymommatobe said:
Lurking from may. This person has posted this on several month boards. I'd say ignore this and let this go off the first page.

They posted in October too !

tncas · April 2015

justme2015 said:
It started way before the Puritans...

I suppose I should clarify. The practice as we know it in the U.S. today (claiming to be purely for medical purposes) began with the Puritans. Prior to that it was seen a religious or rite of passage ceremony and in many cases took place when the child was entering puberty, not at birth. Again, I am not browsing the internet this information comes from multiple textbooks; you can try google scholar or a library database for some reputable sources on the topic.

tncas · April 2015

Also, I did not intend to judge anyone who chooses to circumcise their child. It is a very personal and private decision. I was simply stating that the op was not incorrect in her presentation of the facts as many people have stated. Although, I think she could have used less inflammatory language and received far better feedback I think her intentions were good.

klairv · April 2015

Thank you! @tncas

Circumcision does have a very long history. It's original intention was essentially to dull sexual pleasure for men so they could "keep their mind on god".

This was written by Manmoides in the 12th century:

"The fact that circumcision weakens the faculty of sexual excitement and sometimes perhaps diminishes the pleasure is indubitable. For if at birth this member has been made to bleed and has had its covering taken away from it, it must indubitably be weakened."

The most difficult thing about circumcision isn't the logical argument, it's the emotional one. Think about it this way: with any other surgery for our sons if our doctor told us it wasn't necessary we'd be ecstatic, yet somehow not for this one.

I know it was that way for me. My husband and every man in his family is circumcised. Every single one of the mom friends I know right now circumcised their sons. These are awesome, caring, fabulous moms! The only difference between them and me is that someone reached out tome like I'm reaching out to you. (Well and that I'm kind of a research dork as you might be able to tell.)

I was so uncomfortable at first being the only one who made this choice. It was agonizing in the hospital as I asked every nurse about fifty times if I was making the right decision. (That wasn't as helpful as you might think.) However, over the last few months I've learned how not a big deal that really is. Caring for his intact penis is beyond easy: wipe like a finger, that's it. No bloody diapers. No vaseline on the wound. The only thing it is really important to know that only the boy himself should retract his foreskin after it separates naturally which could be as late as puberty. Do not let any doctors, parents or caretakers do it sooner.

Somebody came up to me just this week, while I was changing my sons diaper, and said "oh cool, my son is intact too!" Other intact boys are out there are out there even if it's not obvious Times are changing. It won't be long before we don't even have to deal with this agonizing decision for our little ones. And that, in my book, will be awesome.

AmandaDCarroll · April 2015

I did my research on this topic before the time came, but ultimately the decision was left up to my husband. Like others have said, there are both pros and cons to getting a circumcision or remaining intact. There is no 'wrong or right' answer here.

My son could get upset down the road one way or another. What if we left him intact? He could get upset because he did his own research and found different health concerns, or felt 'different'. What if we got him circumsized? Same thing. Either way we, as the parents, need to make a decision.

MaddJay24567 · April 2015

Well, I think the big difference is that if my son was upset about being circumcised there's nothing he could do about it. If he really wants to be circumcised he can do it as an adult. I don't think the surgery is that big of a deal for an adult. It's totally easier than a boob job for example.

nolababybaby · April 2015

I just think it's a totally bizarre practice. Female genital mutilation is against the law. This doesn't seem that different to me except that's it's been done by western cultures.
From what I've read, studies show it is beneficial only in high risk HIV populations like in African countries. It does not affect normal, day to day health or cleanliness.

tdart14 · April 2015

If we had of been expecting a boy he would have been circumcised.

taahira · April 2015

nolababybaby said:
I just think it's a totally bizarre practice. Female genital mutilation is against the law. This doesn't seem that different to me except that's it's been done by western cultures.
From what I've read, studies show it is beneficial only in high risk HIV populations like in African countries. It does not affect normal, day to day health or cleanliness.

Seriously..please continue to search further on this. Your mislead!

nolababybaby · April 2015

I'm actually very well educated on this subject. And you won't convince me of anything when you don't even know the difference between "your" and "you're".

taahira · April 2015

nolababybaby said:
I'm actually very well educated on this subject. And you won't convince me of anything when you don't even know the difference between "your" and "you're".

)

polynomz · April 2015

I've also read the opposite, of men who wish they had been circumcised and pull the foreskin back and bind it hoping to develop less sensitivity. Apparently that's not an uncommo practice. The more you know.

klairv · April 2015

Polynomz is right. I've heard of that too. The major difference between the two is that the guy who pulls back the foreskin has a choice, the one who is circumcised does not. He can't get his foreskin back.

Often the decrease in sensitivity doesn't become a real problem until the man is older, and for some it never does. Men who who have been circumcised have never experienced what they are missing so the way they feel is simply normal to them. Even if they do suffer from sensitivity issues, they may not have the slightest idea that they should expect more sensation or that circumcision is to blame. Over time the keratinization (callousing) builds up on a mans penis, his existing nerve endings naturally decline and the high testosterone levels of a young man aren't enough to make up for it. That's likely a major factor in why ED is so prevalent here in the US. A study published in the International Journal for Men's Health found that ED rates were 4.5 times higher in circumcised men. https://www.academia.edu/6395137/Adding_Insult_to_Injury_Acquisition_of_Erectile_Dysfunction_from_Circumcision

(I can't tell exactly if that links through to the original study, this is at least an article that refers to the study)

MaddJay24567 · April 2015

You mean cutting the most sensitive part off of a penis makes it dysfunction? Huh! Who knew?

kinseykinz · April 2015

Yeah, personally I prefer to get my information...especially medical information, from my doctors and medical sources I trust rather than internet strangers with strong opinions. So I am basing my decision on what doctors and sources like the Mayo Clinic and Americian Acedemy of Pediatrics have to say on the matter....which is basically 'while it shouldn't be a routine procedure (ie the parents should make the call) the HEALTH benefits outweigh the risks.' So while I respect the decision either way parents will make on the matter....guilting those who opt for the surgery based on views not held by 'mainsteam medicine' or believing that they haven't also weighed the pros and cons is unfair.

misdypooh · April 2015

Unless there is a real medical need, I would never alter my son. He's perfect the way he is.

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