For established moms - how do you feel about Common Core?

KaLikeAWind · April 2015

I've been seeing some examples and honestly, it annoys me and I hate it. I don't want to send my kid to a school that uses it, but I'm afraid there are no schools (or so little as to make no difference) that do NOT use it (those federal dollars, you know). I believed in the public school system but Common Core just seems to me the wrong way about. I'd rather not home school, but I think against Common Core it may be better.

I'd especially like to hear from any teachers or educators about this - if they feel it truly does help the students to learn, of you feel like you're helping them prepare for the world, etc.

Thanks bunches!

lovethatcolosun · April 2015

I'm not a teacher, but I would basically agree with everything you just said. I HATE COMMON CORE! I have considered Montessori schooling vs public ed for this very reason.

seesea · April 2015

I really had to think about this to give a thoughtful response. There are so many things going on in mind about this. What is it about the common core that you're not liking exactly? I'm interested to know what examples you saw.

I've been teaching for a while and there are always these new trends in education that promise to change things for the better. Sometimes I just roll my eyes at these trends and get all pissy about it because these new and improved tactics can suck the fun out of teaching.

Now with the common core, there are some things I appreciate. I teach middle school math, art and reading so I'm coming from that perspective. With math I like the idea of how they would cover less standards in more depth rather than cover a bunch of topics in a school year. The idea is for the students to have a more conceptual understanding rather than rote memorization of math facts and formulas.

What I'm not liking however, is that there is less emphasis on literature. To me that is crazy! Instead of reading novels, they want students to focus on analyzing articles and other expository text by using evidence of what they read. The reasoning behind that is because there's more real world application in analyzing and annotating text.

I teach in CA and what I just described is a small sample of what I got out of the common core trainings/ workshops. In all honesty, those workshops made me feel like they were trying to sell me something. That didn't sit too well with me. Maybe I just had crappy facilitators? The common core is relatively new and my district just started full implementation. All I can do is roll with the punches and rely on my teacher instincts to give my students the best education I can. So with the common core only time will tell before I have to get with another educational trend.

Edited because sometimes it's hard to type on a phone in a moving vehicle while my DH is talking to me. I'm sure I've left some grammatical errors.

NotISaidtheCat · April 2015

My daughter is only in first grade, so we haven't noticed anything weird yet...but family members with older kids share examples of their homework and it looks seriously nuts. If things get too stupid for DD we'll probably homeschool.

OnWayto3 · April 2015

As a teacher for several years (with intermittent breaks in between), I've seen a variety of educational trends; CC being the most recent. There is always something being pumped up as the latest and greatest. Honestly, most amount to about a year of hype and then simmer down with the end result being nearly the same as the last one.

That being said. from a reading/writing perspective, I don't think the CC is horrible. Like someone else mentioned, I don't like the emphasis on short expository texts at the loss of other literature. However, I do appreciate having a more global focus that grants more freedom (imho) than previous standards. I also appreciate being able to go into more depth, even at the middle school level, than previously.

From a parent's perspective with children in elementary school, I do NOT like the math component so much. It seems to confuse and even dumb-down more than teach. Then again, this may have more to do with the individual teachers, the district mandates, and/or the curriculum. I'm really not familiar with how Common Core impacts math.

Now, I'm curious to know what it is that you are frustrated with or dislike about CC. Mind explaining?

KaLikeAWind · April 2015

Actually, good question on what examples I've seen. I will be honest and say that I have not seen much of the literature / reading stuff, nor reading for higher grades (middle school). Mostly I have seen math worksheets and problems for what I would consider earlier grades (maybe 3rd and below? Its been a LOOONNNG time since I was in school so I am nowhere near certain where they teach certain skills now).

I get with these math situations they are trying to teach how to approach a mathematical problem from various ways to arrive at the answer. But I've seen parents post on fb where their kid got the answer wrong but the question was still counted as correct because they used the 'skipping method' properly (or something - whatever they called it). So then I'm like - so what if you used the correct method - in real life if you used this method to pay your bills and sent the wrong amount, your bank doesn't give a crap. You didn't send the correct amount.

As for specific examples, a friend shared this on fb from some article, and its a fair example of making something that seems simple to me extra complicated.

I do appreciate your input tho, cause I have huge respect for teachers and know that I could be letting my annoyance cloud my judgement. That's why I wanted to know if you thought it was helpful or got in the way of you doing your job (educating our future)

I'll search for some more examples, but for now I have this one -

KaLikeAWind · April 2015

Here, ignore the parent rant and just look at the question itself. This is what I meant by reference to skipping method above. I just don't get it? (I always prefer to try to solve the worksheet myself before reading the rant written on it. Don't want to further cloud my judgement, which is already pretty cloudy)

https://madworldnews.com/angry-mother-destroys-common-core-writing-sons-test/

KaLikeAWind · April 2015

? The answer is reasonable? The estimate is off by over 100!

KaLikeAWind · April 2015

Bleh. Its making me tired. I don't mean to pick on math alone, I had previously seen a reading one but now I can't concentrate on finding it. I'll look again tomorrow.

Maybe I'm only ever seeing the worst of the worst (totally possible) so I'm over-hyping it. Thanks for the teachers input, regardless, ladies

Frogger5 · April 2015

I'm a speech therapist in a school, and I've had to attend all the trainings like the teachers but obviously it doesn't really affect my day to day job in the same way it does teachers. These are just my thoughts:

Seems in general most teachers feel like the teachers that posted above. There will be something, it will keep changing, they have seen worse. Public education in whatever school system you're in will continue to be what it is, CCSS or not. Maybe you think it's great, maybe you think your district is terrible, but I honestly can't imagine anyone homeschooling because of the common core. It's truly not dictating content as much as these (admittedly at face value - ridiculous!) examples suggest. If you're against something you can always take things out of context and find ways to ridicule it. I'm not saying it doesn't have it's flaws (I have more trouble with the lower grades/kinders and developmentally inappropriate expectations), but especially since we have 5 or more years until these J15 babies would be affected, I say let's just wait and see what happens before getting too concerned. Definitely might not even be an issue by then!

glenwood82 · April 2015

I've been a public school teacher for the past 10 years and actually really like the common core standards. I'm an instructional coach now working with special education teachers K-12. I've worked with highly transient students (military), and like how when they move from state to state the expectations are the same. I also teach in hawaii where the previous set of standards really didn't provide students with the rigor to prepare them for college. That being said I hate some of the curriculum that has been created to meet the standards. I think a lot of the time we confuse the actual standards themselves with the worksheets and textbooks that private companies have created and labeled as common core. Just my two-cents, hoping by the time baby girl reaches school age the materials for common core are a whole lot better!

MrsWiggleWaggle · April 2015

glenwood82 said:
I think a lot of the time we confuse the actual standards themselves with the worksheets and textbooks that private companies have created and labeled as common core. Just my two-cents, hoping by the time baby girl reaches school age the materials for common core are a whole lot better!

THIS! Common core is a collection of learning expectations, not a method for teaching them. It emphasizes deep conceptual learning and analysis of text rather than memorizing times tables or methods (like long division), or questions like "what was the name of the protagonist..." to develop a deeper critical thinking. It's also not a national law or policy just a set of developed recommendations state governments have adopted.

The idea of those admittedly stupid looking worksheets is for students to begin manipulating numbers rather than apply a set of rules to solve. This is so that later when they encounter problems where there is no obvious formula for solving they have a deep enough understanding of how numbers work that they can literally invent their own method to solve. You can do a math problem lots of different ways. My husband is an engineer and there is a HUGE difference in success between the ones who only know how to plug in formulas and ones who can actually find solutions to complex real world engineering issues. I imagine it's the same for other STEM fields. You want a doctor who can adapt her knowledge to your particular set of real world circumstances rather than simply apply the recommended dosage and numbers in a text book to all of her patients.

bethanne09 · April 2015

Texas doesn't use Common Core, but we do have a similar set of standards. A lot of what you're complaining about is up to the teacher. Common Core and other standards are a guide, not provided work. Most school districts are open to parents coming in to observe classrooms. If you're concerned, to observe a school and see how it goes. I'm currently teaching in a Montessori school and they still have to meet those standards, it just happens in a very different way.

KaLikeAWind · April 2015

This feedback is EXACTLY what I was looking for. Thanks for all the input. I knew that I was jumping WAY ahead to a school future I can't even really imagine yet, and I was really hoping to have the 'kinks' worked out of this system before ewok hit school. Its encouraging to me that teachers find it helps kids to learn and think critically - to the root of the problem, so to speak. Once I slept I found my words again and could say that honestly, I look at the stuff I find online and I'm thinking to myself - "how am I going to help ewok with their homework?! I don't understand it myself!" Makes me feel like a total failure in advance. And I kept reading, stumbling across these articles where teachers were saying all they do is teach test prep now, and they're totally unhappy and blah blah... I have HUGE respect for teachers so it kinda broke my heart. Its heartening to read these responses. Again, thanks so much for a different point of view that I was having a hard time seeing. ❤

KaLikeAWind · April 2015

Now, do they have tutors for parents? Lol...

karaelaine1991 · April 2015

mellymar said:
Now, do they have tutors for parents? Lol...

Since you asked (pulling out my librarian hat)...

If you have a public library near you, chances are they have resources for new parents about preparing your child for school from infancy. Many libraries now have "baby lapsit" programs that newborns and their caregivers can attend as soon as you're ready to take baby out of the house. Great parent/baby bonding time, plus they'll work in ways to develop the skills that are needed, even at such a young age. Most libraries pay attention to Common Core and while they don't strictly adhere to it, they try to adapt their services to support it. Many libraries are modeling their services off of the Every Child Ready to Read program, which basically says that if parents incorporate the practices of playing, talking, singing, reading, and writing into their daily routine with their children who aren't in school yet, it'll help with the development of literacy skills. For newborns it's mostly parents talking to, playing with, singing to, and reading to their babies, but it's a great place to start!

Jumping off my soap box now - point is, when in doubt, try the library!

KaLikeAWind · April 2015

@karaelaine1991 I was actually planning on library time with ewok once we are at that point. My sister takes the twins to the library I think twice a week (or more!) for storytime and interactive stuff and they love it. I'd really love for ewok to love books just as much as I do, so I was planning on looking at 'classes' (sessions? I'm not sure what to call the library segments for kids) around the fall/winter once we've started our vaccines and stuff and get the OK from the pediatrician. It may be that's WAY too early, but I know there is a parent / baby swim class for kids as young as 6m at our local YMCA and I was gonna do that, too, so I thought we could library around the same age range if they offered any programs.
I'm not trying to set my kid up to be an academic genius, I just want my kid to enjoy learning. The library sounds like a great place to start and I'm totally into it.

ETA I'm totally going to check into the newborn lap-sit once I get my feet under me as a mom and could use some time out of the house. Would probably help with social skills, too (for both me and baby). Thanks for letting me know they have programs for parents with babies that young, I wouldn't have expected it

ETA again - I actually have a bunch of books to donate so I'll ask about it when I drop them off sometime in the coming weeks

karaelaine1991 · April 2015

mellymar said:
@karaelaine1991 I was actually planning on library time with ewok once we are at that point. My sister takes the twins to the library I think twice a week (or more!) for storytime and interactive stuff and they love it. I'd really love for ewok to love books just as much as I do, so I was planning on looking at 'classes' (sessions? I'm not sure what to call the library segments for kids) around the fall/winter once we've started our vaccines and stuff and get the OK from the pediatrician. It may be that's WAY too early, but I know there is a parent / baby swim class for kids as young as 6m at our local YMCA and I was gonna do that, too, so I thought we could library around the same age range if they offered any programs.
I'm not trying to set my kid up to be an academic genius, I just want my kid to enjoy learning. The library sounds like a great place to start and I'm totally into it.

ETA I'm totally going to check into the newborn lap-sit once I get my feet under me as a mom and could use some time out of the house. Would probably help with social skills, too (for both me and baby). Thanks for letting me know they have programs for parents with babies that young, I wouldn't have expected it

ETA again - I actually have a bunch of books to donate so I'll ask about it when I drop them off sometime in the coming weeks

Awesome! And you're welcome! Yeah it's a fairly recent trend but it's really taken off in the last ten years or so - libraries traditionally have really focused on preschoolers and the elderly but they've really started to expand their services and programs which is awesome!

seesea · April 2015

@mellymar as a parent if I saw examples like that I'd be annoyed too. If my kid came home with work like that I would probably sit down with the teacher and have him/her explain their method of teaching. I've had parents ask questions about the math I teach and I have no problem talking to them about it.

Like what other posters have said, the common core is a set of standards not a method of teaching. There's a bunch of tips/ tricks in teaching that are supposed to make things easier. This is especially true for math. Unfortunately, kids don't always understand the "why" behind these strategies, it becomes another set of steps to remember. I hope that made sense!

Anyway, I'm glad you started this thread. It encouraged healthy dialogue about education. I think it's pretty cool you're thinking about your child's schooling in the future. It's also a great idea to start reading to your LO early to develop a love for books. That will definitely put ewok on the right track!

virginiaunicorn11 · April 2015

Awesome thread, thanks everyone!

kortiz84 · April 2015

I didn't read all of the replies and I might be repeating what others have said, but as a high school math teacher, I cannot help but reply. Personally, I think the CCSS are getting a really poor reputation for no good reason. As a high school math teacher, I can see that the standards are trying to address mathematics in such a way that help students understand and justify the content rather than memorize a process or algorithm. The standards also encourage students to come to their own conclusions making the learning valuable.

Now, with this being said, I completely understand the frustration parents are experiencing. The implementation of more vigorous state mandated testing was not an appropriate response to supporting a new set of standards. Also, we had textbook companies going crazy without little knowledge with what the standarda said to make a buck with new textbooks. It all depends on how your school district, administration, and teachers responded to the new standards but probably more importantly the new tests and resources.

I will also say, that at the elementary level, I imagine there was some frustration for the teachers. If your an elementary teacher, you didn't go to school to be a math expert like secondary and post-secondary educators did. It would be very helpful to have an understanding of the goal of the math curriculum for the entire 13 years but that's completely unreasonable. Hopefully your administration has brought in math experts to work with the elementary teachers to make the connections and see the value of the standards. I really wish we had content coaches (math, science, literature, etc) for elementary schools- elementary teachers have plenty on their plates as it is and deserve to be supported. Thanks for letting me share!

princesslockness · April 2015

kortiz84 said:
I didn't read all of the replies and I might be repeating what others have said, but as a high school math teacher, I cannot help but reply. Personally, I think the CCSS are getting a really poor reputation for no good reason. As a high school math teacher, I can see that the standards are trying to address mathematics in such a way that help students understand and justify the content rather than memorize a process or algorithm. The standards also encourage students to come to their own conclusions making the learning valuable.

Now, with this being said, I completely understand the frustration parents are experiencing. The implementation of more vigorous state mandated testing was not an appropriate response to supporting a new set of standards. Also, we had textbook companies going crazy without little knowledge with what the standarda said to make a buck with new textbooks. It all depends on how your school district, administration, and teachers responded to the new standards but probably more importantly the new tests and resources.

I will also say, that at the elementary level, I imagine there was some frustration for the teachers. If your an elementary teacher, you didn't go to school to be a math expert like secondary and post-secondary educators did. It would be very helpful to have an understanding of the goal of the math curriculum for the entire 13 years but that's completely unreasonable. Hopefully your administration has brought in math experts to work with the elementary teachers to make the connections and see the value of the standards. I really wish we had content coaches (math, science, literature, etc) for elementary schools- elementary teachers have plenty on their plates as it is and deserve to be supported. Thanks for letting me share!

+1 and adding my 2 cents. As a high school science teacher, common core will/does help my students be able to read informational texts. My 9th graders can actually make sense out of a textbook or a scientific article.
Also they now have tricks to help them with the formulas that go with physical science.

KaLikeAWind · April 2015

@kortiz84 @Kate08Young yes I really wanted and appreciated the advice of the teachers in the house. It does sound like the view from outside is narrow and the media machine is in effect when promoting the negatives. I'm heartened to hear that teachers do feel it is helping kids to learn. I'm totally open to things that will help our kids think and reason effectively. I'm hopeful that in the years between now and LO attending school the quirks get ironed out and things will be going more smoothly at all grade levels and there won't be so much negative attention to draw the focus.

Really really grateful for all the advice and input on this. Thanks so much to everyone!

devyns2nd · April 2015

MH is totally obsessed now that I mentioned this. He has three teenagers in school now and our school system doesn't use CC. he's hoping it does by the time our little ones get in middle school.

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