Vaccinations

princesslockness · February 2015

H and I just Had a conversation about vaccinations and I'm looking to hear your thoughts.
We are both strong believers in vaccination, and just had a conversation about the time frame for all the shots.

bashfulbird · February 2015

Well I hate to see some of these diseases make a comeback. Recent news about measles at Disneyland is scary. Esp since I was born in the 70's my original vaccination for rubella is useless, I had no idea until my first prenatal visit. So now I am worried about getting it because there are so many kids that have not been vaccinated.

KLB2T · February 2015

My family is required to be vaccinated (per military rules), and I'm so glad! They remind us when we need them and we just walk into Immunizations, no appt, and get whatever shots we need. DDs daycare (on base) also requires every child that attends to receive vaccinations, or else they're not able to attend.

ETA: We forgot to get DDs flu shot (its optional for babies for the military, but mandatory for the daycare) and received a reminder letter from the daycare that if she didn't receive it by Jan 31, they will kick her out of daycare...We took her later that day to get it, lol.

kc525 · February 2015

It should be mandatory.

ETA: unless, of course, there is a legit medical reason not to, like an autoimmune disorder.

sschwege · February 2015

It's a social responsibility and those who can be vaccinated should be IMO.

We vaccinate on time including the flu shot. The only one we delay and by delay I mean a matter of weeks is the Hep B vaccine. I like to get BFing well established before we do that, but if my baby was at any risk of getting Hep B I would do it at birth. We do it at the two week appointment.

dilutedsanity0 · February 2015

https://youtu.be/RfdZTZQvuCo

Watch it.

cowboys2009 · February 2015

As a PP mentioned, my dd's daycare requires the flu shot but even if they didn't we would still vaccinate. My close friend has a son who was born at 30 weeks and has a compromised immune system. It could be life threatening if he contracted something from a sick, un-vaccinated child. Even though we believe in vaccination, his story has made me see it in a completely different way.

xcitdmomma · February 2015

Get vaccinated! Those diseases are scary and can lead to later problems if contracted.

piperpenguin · February 2015

The measles outbreaks have made me so angry. People need to be vaccinated to protect themselves AND those who cannot receive vaccines (ie KIDS WITH CANCER for one). It's awful that families hold vaccines from their healthy children and try to hide in the "herd immunity". Clearly with these recent measles cases that did not work.

Only good thing to come from the measles cases is the recent bump in vaccine rates. How many more preventable diseases will people need to contract before vaccines are taken seriously across the board?

ammc07 · February 2015

This conversation lays in the same category as circumcision and bf'ing vs. Formula. Everyone has their own opinion and it will typically turn into a debate.

xcitdmomma · February 2015

But formula feeding doesn't make other kids carriers of or contract preventable diseases...

kc525 · February 2015

ammc07 said:
This conversation lays in the same category as circumcision and bf'ing vs. Formula. Everyone has their own opinion and it will typically turn into a debate.

It's not an opinion thing, though. Circumcision and BF'ing ARE personal decisions, with pros and cons. Vaccinating, as long as you are able to, is a social responsibility. Every argument within the anti-vax movement have been debunked over and over again. There are no scientific pros for the non-vaccination of a healthy child. So no, it's not a personal choice on par with BF'ing.

ammc07 · February 2015

@xcitdmomma‌ and @kc525‌ I totally agree with both of you. My daughter was/is vaccinated. I personally don't see why you wouldn't do it BUT typically on these sorts of boards this is a topic that people are very passionate about on what side of the fence they stand on and can turn into a big debate.

gingerygirl · February 2015

If my kids aren't allowed to bring a peanut butter sandwich to school because of your child's allergy, then you shouldn't be allowed to bring your unvaccinated kids to the school.

divinemsbee · February 2015

I mean, unless you have a legitimate medical reason for doing a delayed schedule (previous reactions and such) then there's absolutely no reason to do one. If your reasoning is 'but it's so many shots at once and scary needles' then you need to get your head around it (you've got plenty of time) and realize that's absurd. Personally, I do not want a doctor who is willing to humor my FTM control issues instead of insisting on vaccinating on a CDC schedule.

In short, just do it. Do it on time and as needed. If you don't trust your doctor with vaccinations and to do the job they trained to do, then that's something you need to deal with.

Personally, I will be looking for a pediatrician who does not accept patients whose parents refuse to vaccinate for 'ideological' reasons. I don't need that extra worry.

jesselayne8 · February 2015

sschwege said:

It's a social responsibility and those who can be vaccinated should be IMO.

We vaccinate on time including the flu shot. The only one we delay and by delay I mean a matter of weeks is the Hep B vaccine. I like to get BFing well established before we do that, but if my baby was at any risk of getting Hep B I would do it at birth. We do it at the two week appointment.

We do the same with the Hep B vaccine but everything else is on schedule.

princesslockness · February 2015

divinemsbee said:
I mean, unless you have a legitimate medical reason for doing a delayed schedule (previous reactions and such) then there's absolutely no reason to do one. If your reasoning is 'but it's so many shots at once and scary needles' then you need to get your head around it (you've got plenty of time) and realize that's absurd. Personally, I do not want a doctor who is willing to humor my FTM control issues instead of insisting on vaccinating on a CDC schedule.

In short, just do it. Do it on time and as needed. If you don't trust your doctor with vaccinations and to do the job they trained to do, then that's something you need to deal with.

Personally, I will be looking for a pediatrician who does not accept patients whose parents refuse to vaccinate for 'ideological' reasons. I don't need that extra worry.

It wasn't so much a 'it's soo many shots' as when do we want to start them all. We were mostly debating the hep B shot and its timing. The rest we are set on the CDC schedule.

ckvan2001 · February 2015

Yes, it's really a no brainer! Get your kids vaccinated, unless your child has a medical condition that keeps him/her from getting their vaccinations. All three of my kids are vaccinated, and so will baby #4.

CaliforniaDream87 · February 2015

Oh God! Here we go with this debate. Just an FYI, this debate NEVER goes over well on TB nor does it stop (even after baby gets here).

I don't understand what my opinion on vaccinating my kid has to do with anyone's decision. I say, make your own decision for your kid. Whether that be delayed vacc's schedule, regular schedule ect.

CaliforniaDream87 · February 2015

kc525 said:

ammc07 said:
This conversation lays in the same category as circumcision and bf'ing vs. Formula. Everyone has their own opinion and it will typically turn into a debate.

It's not an opinion thing, though. Circumcision and BF'ing ARE personal decisions, with pros and cons. Vaccinating, as long as you are able to, is a social responsibility. Every argument within the anti-vax movement have been debunked over and over again. There are no scientific pros for the non-vaccination of a healthy child. So no, it's not a personal choice on par with BF'ing.

Doesn't matter though. Whether you think it's "logical" or not they're are plenty of parents that disagree with vaccinating their kids. This debate is old and played. It's opinion based, and while that is a bit scary, it's reality.

amylianne · February 2015

No one has really addressed the alternate schedules, so I will. We fully vaccinate DS, but no more than 2, maybe 3, shots per visit. They really do want to give kids a HUGE number of shots at once. Though the issue of mercury has gotten much better, there can still be trace amounts, and I don't want those small amounts to add up with 8 shots at once. Also, their little immune systems have to take in the antibodies and process them, and I just figured I wouldn't overload his little system. However, millions of kids get all the shots at once and are fine. Also, doing it how I have requires that we go in for shots in between the regular check ups, but by each appointment he has had all the shots that the CDC recommends by that age. You really just have to do what you are comfortable with, but know you do have options.

kcebeling · February 2015

CaliforniaDream87 said:

I don't understand what my opinion on vaccinating my kid has to do with anyone's decision. I say, make your own decision for your kid. Whether that be delayed vacc's schedule, regular schedule ect.

Understand this: your opinion not to to vaccinate + other non-vaxx'ers = reduced herd immunity and preventable disease outbreaks. Will people begin understanding when the numbers increase and deaths start occurring?

astheria · February 2015

amylianne said:

No one has really addressed the alternate schedules, so I will. We fully vaccinate DS, but no more than 2, maybe 3, shots per visit. They really do want to give kids a HUGE number of shots at once. Though the issue of mercury has gotten much better, there can still be trace amounts, and I don't want those small amounts to add up with 8 shots at once. Also, their little immune systems have to take in the antibodies and process them, and I just figured I wouldn't overload his little system. However, millions of kids get all the shots at once and are fine. Also, doing it how I have requires that we go in for shots in between the regular check ups, but by each appointment he has had all the shots that the CDC recommends by that age. You really just have to do what you are comfortable with, but know you do have options.

Just have to correct a few things. 1) There is ZERO mercury in childhood immunizations. Zero. There was thermisol in childhood vaccinations until fear overcame rationale though and congress asked in early 2000's for it to be phased out. The only common vaccine containing "mercury" is the seasonal flu shot. I say "mercury" because it's actually thermisol, an ethylmercury containing preservative. The ETHYL part is very important. Ethylmercury, unlike methylmercury (commonly found in fish) or atomic mercury, is a organo-mercury, and is readily metabolized by your body. It is rapidly removed from your (and a child's) immune system.

2) There is zero scientific rationale for altering the recommended dosing schedule in a healthy infant. The idea of immune overload has been debunked. In fact, the antigens present in today's many vaccines is many fold less than historical amounts. In the 1960s and 1980s, childhood vaccines introduced over 3,000 antigens into an infant's body. Today, that number is approximately 315 antigens in the first 2 years of life. The theoretical capacity for a child to respond to properly without issue is 10,000 vaccines at once. To explain it another way, if a child was given 11 vaccines at once, approx. 0.1% of the child's immune system would be used up during that time. This topic is addressed here: https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/109/1/124.full

The issue with the logic of "make your own decision for your own kid" is that you aren't just making them for your child. You are making them for the child suffering from leukemia or other childhood cancers, who cannot be vaccinated, for the child with allergies to eggs or seizures who cannot be vaccinated. There is a lovely video out there by penn and teller discussing herd immunity (a scientifically proven concept). As the protection of the "herd" dwindles because of so called "personal choice exemptions" those who CANNOT get vaccinated become less and less protected. So it's not a matter of personal choice, it's a public health issue.

As i've stated before here, and elsewhere, I am a scientist. I read scientific publications as part of my job, and have a good understanding of how immunity works, as well as how to accurately read product inserts and understand scientific reporting databases. If anyone feels that they have questions but cannot post, or are afraid to publicly ask them, feel free to PM me. I am more than happy to correct the misinformation that is out there in the hopes of providing a better understanding of the reality of vaccination.

xcitdmomma · February 2015

If you do not get your kids vaccinated, they can be carriers and give those diseases to kids who are too young for vaccinations. At that point, other children are in danger of illness. From my point of view, it's not a matter of opinion.

tinktink20 · February 2015

VACCINATE!!!!

CaliforniaDream87 · February 2015

kcebeling said:

CaliforniaDream87 said:

I don't understand what my opinion on vaccinating my kid has to do with anyone's decision. I say, make your own decision for your kid. Whether that be delayed vacc's schedule, regular schedule ect.

Understand this: your opinion not to to vaccinate + other non-vaxx'ers = reduced herd immunity and preventable disease outbreaks.

Will people begin understanding when the numbers increase and deaths start occurring?

Lol. You're preaching to the choir. When did I ever state my opinion on the matter? Please don't "lump" me into the "anti vacc's" category. I understand everything you're saying. You need to realize that not everyone sees it this way. This is an argument that will go on and on and on here....if you want to stand on the rooftop and force YOUR opinion, because that's what it is considering people have the "choice" to vaccinate, by all means do so.

KMBC2552 · February 2015

We followed my doctors regular vaccinating schedules. Due to the fact that they offer combined shots and some are oral, my kids never received more than two shots at once.

xcitdmomma · February 2015

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/02/02/get-your-kids-vaccinated-obama-tells-parents-doubting-indisputable-science/

But... the president says so! Therefore, we must all do it!

kc525 · February 2015

CaliforniaDream87 said:

kcebeling said:

CaliforniaDream87 said:

I don't understand what my opinion on vaccinating my kid has to do with anyone's decision. I say, make your own decision for your kid. Whether that be delayed vacc's schedule, regular schedule ect.

Understand this: your opinion not to to vaccinate + other non-vaxx'ers = reduced herd immunity and preventable disease outbreaks.

Will people begin understanding when the numbers increase and deaths start occurring?

Lol. You're preaching to the choir. When did I ever state my opinion on the matter? Please don't "lump" me into the "anti vacc's" category. I understand everything you're saying. You need to realize that not everyone sees it this way. This is an argument that will go on and on and on here....if you want to stand on the rooftop and force YOUR opinion, because that's what it is considering people have the "choice" to vaccinate, by all means do so.

I think the point is that it shouldn't be an opinion thing, though. I'm personally speaking against the anti-vax movement as a whole. Unless there are legitimate health reasons not to, there is no reason to make a "choice" not to.... None. It's the plethora of terrible information that is pushing those "opinions". So, again, no.... It's not an opinion. It's fact vs fiction.

thesportsgal · February 2015

divinemsbee said:
Personally, I will be looking for a pediatrician who does not accept patients whose parents refuse to vaccinate for 'ideological' reasons. I don't need that extra worry.

This would be awesome. Ours "heavily suggests" finding a new practice if you don't want to follow their schedule.

One of us gets sick EVERY.SINGLE.TIME. we leave that office. If my LO came home with the measles from the pedi's office, I would seriously lose my shit.

CaliforniaDream87 · February 2015

kc525 said:

CaliforniaDream87 said:

kcebeling said:

CaliforniaDream87 said:

I don't understand what my opinion on vaccinating my kid has to do with anyone's decision. I say, make your own decision for your kid. Whether that be delayed vacc's schedule, regular schedule ect.

Understand this: your opinion not to to vaccinate + other non-vaxx'ers = reduced herd immunity and preventable disease outbreaks.

Will people begin understanding when the numbers increase and deaths start occurring?

Lol. You're preaching to the choir. When did I ever state my opinion on the matter? Please don't "lump" me into the "anti vacc's" category. I understand everything you're saying. You need to realize that not everyone sees it this way. This is an argument that will go on and on and on here....if you want to stand on the rooftop and force YOUR opinion, because that's what it is considering people have the "choice" to vaccinate, by all means do so.

I think the point is that it shouldn't be an opinion thing, though. I'm personally speaking against the anti-vax movement as a whole. Unless there are legitimate health reasons not to, there is no reason to make a "choice" not to.... None. It's the plethora of terrible information that is pushing those "opinions". So, again, no.... It's not an opinion. It's fact vs fiction.

Meh, clearly it's not a "fact vs. fiction" situation. Clearly, people still have the right to send their kid to school with ZERO vaccinations. I'm not debating whether or not I agree with you're opinion. The point is, there will be some Vacc's kids and their will be some that are not.

This debate will go on and on. It has MAJOR history on TB. Now, THAT was my point.

kc525 · February 2015

Thankfully in my school district, people don't have that right. Healthy children must be vaccinated to attend.

But the debate SHOULD go on and on and on. Because if people don't keep sharing the FACTS (yes, it absolutely is fact vs fiction), then the fiction will be spread, and those "opinions" will never change. It needs to stop as a whole.

misty7281 · February 2015

I was a perfectly healthy kid until i received vaccinations that landed me on life support. I was 5 and flat lined and was in a coma for months. Guillian barre syndrome. For that reason, i refuse to give my kids vaccinations unless i have to. i still have issues from it. I can honestly say vaccinations ruined my life. I went to school with all the other kids, despite being unable to receive immunizations. Noone in my class ever got sick from me and i def never got anything that the vaccinations could have prevented. One year when my oldest was 13 his ped talked me into getting him the flu shot. This is the first time he ever got sick was right after the flu shot, within like 2 days. So you see personally where i have a hard time with the vaccination issue. I will never be allowed to get any type of vaccine.

KLB2T · February 2015

misty7281 said:

I was a perfectly healthy kid until i received vaccinations that landed me on life support. I was 5 and flat lined and was in a coma for months. Guillian barre syndrome. For that reason, i refuse to give my kids vaccinations unless i have to. i still have issues from it. I can honestly say vaccinations ruined my life. I went to school with all the other kids, despite being unable to receive immunizations. Noone in my class ever got sick from me and i def never got anything that the vaccinations could have prevented. One year when my oldest was 13 his ped talked me into getting him the flu shot. This is the first time he ever got sick was right after the flu shot, within like 2 days. So you see personally where i have a hard time with the vaccination issue. I will never be allowed to get any type of vaccine.

How can you be sure it was the vaccination that caused this and not just a speculation/coincidence? A quick search landed me several places that all say the causes of GBS are unknown...just throwing that out there.

xcitdmomma · February 2015

KLB2T said:

misty7281 said:

I was a perfectly healthy kid until i received vaccinations that landed me on life support. I was 5 and flat lined and was in a coma for months. Guillian barre syndrome. For that reason, i refuse to give my kids vaccinations unless i have to. i still have issues from it. I can honestly say vaccinations ruined my life. I went to school with all the other kids, despite being unable to receive immunizations. Noone in my class ever got sick from me and i def never got anything that the vaccinations could have prevented. One year when my oldest was 13 his ped talked me into getting him the flu shot. This is the first time he ever got sick was right after the flu shot, within like 2 days. So you see personally where i have a hard time with the vaccination issue. I will never be allowed to get any type of vaccine.

How can you be sure it was the vaccination that caused this and not just a speculation/coincidence? A quick search landed me several places that all say the causes of GBS are unknown...just throwing that out there.

I did come across one thing that said the risk of developing GBS can be increased by vaccinations in rare cases. It does concur, however, that the cause is unknown, so I'm not clear on whether or not avoiding vaccines would prevent it. It is incredibly rare and there isn't an inheritance pattern, so I don't think there is an associated risk with vaccinating the kids of people with GBS.

Heavenwhip · February 2015

misty7281 said:

I was a perfectly healthy kid until i received vaccinations that landed me on life support. I was 5 and flat lined and was in a coma for months. Guillian barre syndrome. For that reason, i refuse to give my kids vaccinations unless i have to. i still have issues from it. I can honestly say vaccinations ruined my life. I went to school with all the other kids, despite being unable to receive immunizations. Noone in my class ever got sick from me and i def never got anything that the vaccinations could have prevented. One year when my oldest was 13 his ped talked me into getting him the flu shot. This is the first time he ever got sick was right after the flu shot, within like 2 days. So you see personally where i have a hard time with the vaccination issue. I will never be allowed to get any type of vaccine.

Just a question, did you have any complications with any vaccinations before this one? I tend to agree with the PP that maybe it was not the vaccination that caused this. Obviously I'm no doctor, but it's something to consider.

Also, the fact the no one got ill.......you had herd immunity on your side at that point in time. Herd immunity is dying out due to the anti-vax movement.

KLB2T · February 2015

xcitdmomma said:

KLB2T said:

misty7281 said:

I was a perfectly healthy kid until i received vaccinations that landed me on life support. I was 5 and flat lined and was in a coma for months. Guillian barre syndrome. For that reason, i refuse to give my kids vaccinations unless i have to. i still have issues from it. I can honestly say vaccinations ruined my life. I went to school with all the other kids, despite being unable to receive immunizations. Noone in my class ever got sick from me and i def never got anything that the vaccinations could have prevented. One year when my oldest was 13 his ped talked me into getting him the flu shot. This is the first time he ever got sick was right after the flu shot, within like 2 days. So you see personally where i have a hard time with the vaccination issue. I will never be allowed to get any type of vaccine.

How can you be sure it was the vaccination that caused this and not just a speculation/coincidence? A quick search landed me several places that all say the causes of GBS are unknown...just throwing that out there.

I did come across one thing that said the risk of developing GBS can be increased by vaccinations in rare cases. It does concur, however, that the cause is unknown, so I'm not clear on whether or not avoiding vaccines would prevent it. It is incredibly rare and there isn't an inheritance pattern, so I don't think there is an associated risk with vaccinating the kids of people with GBS.

I guess I just feel like people are...ignorant to say, "I got a shot, then sometime after I got severely sick and that's why I don't vaccinate", when there could be no correlation between the two...just an unfortunate coincidence.

astheria · February 2015

It is very much a fact vs fiction "debate". There is zero scientific evidence to show that vaccines cause autism, cancer, immune overload etc. There is so much misinformation out there. Websites like vactruth that want you to believe vaccines cause childhood cancers (absolutely not) or that there is deadly mercury in childhood vaccines (there is none, never was any "bad" mercury in the first place). It's about parents believing in the propaganda and scare tactics.

Now, if I had A poor reaction or known allergy to immunization then I would be wary that my kids would face the same. All the more reason for the herd to remain strong. Sadly the antivaxx movement has made small pockets of extremely low herd immunity and that is why things like the Disneyland measles cases pop up. I know now they have traveled to my home state where there are also large pockets of low immunity. It's scary. People today don't remember that encephalitis and blindness are prominent side effects of measles. From this outbreak something on the order of 30% of cases have required hospitalization. And most cases are occuring in unvaccinated people.

Unless there are definitive medical reasons to inhibit vaccination, it's a social responsibility to vaccinate your kids for their own protection and the protection of others.

bashfulbird · February 2015

Thanks for the great video @dilutedsanity0
Is it possible the tide is turning and sending the anti-vacc movement out to sea? Wouldn't that be nice.
@astheria Thank you so much for taking the time to outline that info in a way that I a layperson could wrap my head around.
15 years ago I had DD vaccinated reluctantly because the crunchy mama across the street who was older and wiser, told me they were not necessary, and possibly risky. I'm so glad I didn't listen. We will be following the schedule to the letter. Thanks for all of the great info and I will definately be sharing the video with DH.

preppywife · February 2015

rashelburne · February 2015

You need to be wary about any "study" you read because many are not done properly or are reported falsely. As for the "don't vaccine" studies, just remember that correlation does not imply causation.

I've known people who have children with autism that swear it was the vaccines. I've also know people who are firm that they are glad thet child received them and don't believe it was the vaccine.

With all that being said, you need to do what's right for you and your family. Also think about the level of "herd immunity" in your area.

I'm a huge believer in vaccines and allowing children who really need the herd immunity (cancer, etc) use it. But I would never tell parents who decided against vaccines that they made the wrong You need to do what's best for you.

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