The Bedtime War

princess1686 · December 2014

Hi everybody, I know there's already lots of threads very similar to mine about sleep issues, but my situation has become so dire that I really need some individual advice. My 6 month old son has never been a good sleeper at all. When he was first born he absolutely wouldn't sleep anywhere but in our arms. We quickly discovered he would also sleep in his stroller, which can turn into a fully enclosed, fully reclined carriage. However, he outgrew that quite some time ago. When he was about 6 or 7 weeks, I started trying to transition him into a Fisher Price Rock n Play cradle, which I put right next to my side of the bed. It worked like a dream (no pun intended), and before long he dropped all of his night feedings and wakings and slept through the night, every night. That went right out the window the day he got his 4 month vaccinations, and life has been hell ever since. He tended to fall asleep while nursing around 9:30-10pm. I would gently lay him in his cradle, swaddled like always, and he would immediately wake up and start screaming. I would try everything under the sun to soothe him back to sleep--rocking, burping, walking around, singing and talking to him, and nursing--and nothing worked. He was done with his cradle. Just done. We figured maybe the cradle was getting uncomfortable for him because he was getting to be too tall for it. So then we tried getting him to sleep in his crib. Oy. No luck there at all. He would just scream and scream. We tried nursing him to sleep and then laying him down. Bam, awake and screaming. We tried putting him down drowsy, but still awake, and trying to soothe him to sleep by rubbing his back and his tummy, talking to him in a reassuring way, giving him a pacifier...nothing. He'd cry and cry. Eventually my husband was so destroyed from none of us sleeping that he urged me to just let him fall asleep at the breast, in the chair I nurse him in, and not try to move him once he's finally comfy, and just sleep sitting up while holding him. He actually slept right through the night a few times doing that, but I couldn't get any real sleep that way. Finally I started nursing him to sleep in our bed. Then I laid him down at my side, between my husband and I, and he would sleep for very long stretches again, and often all night long. I loved having him right next to me, and I slept great. I loved the bonding. I loved hearing him coo when he'd wake up, and seeing his truly beautiful smile. It was perfect. But his pediatrician put a lot of pressure on us to get him into his crib. He says he's lost patients who coslept with their parents. I love my baby more than anything in this world and I can't stand even the chance something could happen to him. So I nursed him, changed his diaper, gave him a kiss goodnight (same routine we've always had) then put him in his crib. Bam, wide awake and screaming bloody murder. We tried the cry it out method. We checked on him at 3 minutes, 5 minutes, then 10 minutes. He never self soothed. He didn't sleep a wink. He just screamed more and more, for hours. I just can't do that anymore. It's not right for our family, and it's not right for him. No judgment at all if any of you were able to get CIO to work at your house, but it's just not right for my son. It wasn't helping at all. Last night I caved, I nursed him in bed again, after several hours of him "crying it out" (which our pediatrician swears by, btw), and slept for several hours with him next to me in bed. I'm at my wit's end. I don't know what to do anymore. Once upon a time bedtime was peaceful in our house, and now it's a war, and now my son screams any time I try to put him down anywhere, at anytime--even if it's to change his diaper on the changing table. My husband says he feels like a slave to our baby. He used to love being a dad, and now he hates it. I just want my son to have a safe place to sleep at night, but NOTHING ?I try to get him to sleep in his crib will work. FYI, he takes about three naps a day, after nursing. No problem, but sleeps in my arms. Please help us.

princess1686 · December 2014

Guys, I'm sorry this is showing up as one big wall of text. I know how hard that is to read. I put in paragraph breaks, I swear. My computer must have cut out the extra spaces.

Charlotte51 · December 2014

I don't have any personal experience in a situation like this but as a bit of comfort our pediatrician also lectured us on letting LO occasionally sleep in our bed saying it can be unsafe (it's like they're legally required to tell us that!) but also freely admitted that 1 of her 2 kids co-slept because it was what worked best for her family at that time.

The only other suggestions I have are try to make sure LO is super tired before you put him down for the night. I had a hard time with this when DD was around 6 months but if you can push his usual amount of awake time by 15 or 30 min more than usual it may make it easier for him to fall asleep (too tired to fight it).

You didn't go in to a lot of detail on your night time routine so the only other suggestion I have is (if you aren't already doing so) try to make it longer and super soothing. Maybe try turning the lights dimmer earlier in the routine, add a new step, putting on some relaxing music, things like that.

I also really like this website as a sleep resource - www.troublesometots.com

Good luck - You must be exhausted but hang in there, you and the little guy will get it all sorted!

princess1686 · December 2014

Thanks! I'll check out that website,!

princess1686 · December 2014

Yeah, my son can have issues on that either way honestly--not tired enough, he'd rather play than sleep, too tired, he's cranky. It's a very fine balance. Actually, DH and I are going to try taking one of the lateral sides off LO's crib, and then putting it right up against our bed, like a DIY bedside co sleeper. His doctor approves, so here we go!

Emmagk · December 2014

How much sleep is your son getting in total in 24 hours? At 6 months he should be getting about 14 hours a day total. Have you tried an earlier bedtime? 9.30-10pm is very late at this age, maybe try bringing bedtime forward by 15 mins every day until you get to about 7pm. The more overtired a baby is the harder it is to get them to sleep

Abenedict2011 · December 2014

I'm sorry you are going the through this. Our story is similar and I'm just doing my best day by day. Wanted to send support but have no suggestion. Please don't beat yourself up for co/sleeping as long as you research how to do it safely.

princess1686 · December 2014

Everybody, thanks so much for your help and support. It's incredibly kind. We're definitely keeping the bed sharing safe (or as safe as can be, I suppose, since his dr doesn't approve). He's getting about 14 hours of sleep a day, I think he naps longer during the day than your typical baby. That might be part of the problem. We're moving his crib into our room today, and really hoping that will help.

jfletcher3113 · December 2014

First ... deep breath. You're a good mom.

I'm a little mad at your pedi for being so gnarly about co-sleeping. We don't co-sleep, but I have many friends who do and they love it. There is a safe way to do it. Do what is going to work for your family!

A doctor can "lose patients" with crib sleeping too, if a parent creates an unsafe environment in the crib.

I agree with a PP about bumping his bedtime up.

There was a week when I thought my LO was "fighting sleep" because he would scream and scream when we tried to put him to bed. This was at about 5 months. Before then, he didn't really have a "bed time". It would range between 9-10 p.m. and he would sleep amazing. But then... crazy screaming child who hated bedtime.

I started putting him to bed at 7:30 p.m. and this stopped. He wasn't fighting sleep, he was overtired.

Try putting him to bed earlier and see if that helps. It worked for us.

I commend you for not trying to force CIO when you know it won't work for your LO. It doesn't work for everybody and I'm glad you're not continuing to try it when he had that reaction.

princess1686 · December 2014

Guys, again, thanks so much for your help and support. Really. I'm a first time Mom, and I had to deal with a bout of post parturition depression this summer, too, so it can be hard for me to really feel like a good Mom sometimes. Yeah, it puts me off a little that his doctor is so opposed to co sleeping. But, he's been helping us through this, too. I've been bumping up his bedtime by about 20 minutes every night, and he's been doing a lot better. Also--and here 's the REALLY exciting part--last night we took one of the sides off his crib, secured his crib frame to our bed frame, and tried putting him down in his crib and having him sleep sidecar right next to us (his dr approves of this). He slept GREAT!!!!! Only woke up for one night feeding, and slept in all the way to 7:30! It was awesome!!! Again, thanks, you guys are the best!

kamilasekowska · December 2014

Hello. I saw your post awhile ago and I hope it's going better for you. I just wanted to share my experience. Your situation sound EXACTLY like ours. My daughter after turning 10 weeks started breaking every swaddle she was in and became a terrible sleeper. For awhile she only slept in her swing ( even when it wasn't swinging). At about 4 months she outgrew ( by being able to sit up in it and hanging half of her body on a side) . No luck in putting her in crib, rocking chair , pack n play etc. so we gave up and went with the flow. Now we are bed sharing (she is 6,5 months) and couldn't be happier. We try to keep it as safe as possible, and sanity and rest are with us. I know a lot of ppl who bed share and are happy. But a lot of ppl is against it , including our pediatritan. But she told me " we all do it I just can't tell you it's ok". She has 3 kids.
Seriously, good luck and in my opinion just do what is best for your family.

princess1686 · December 2014

Thanks so much, PP, when I saw your post it made my day. Every mama needs some support. I just want to let all of you who were so kind to reply and share advice with me know that things are going WAY better now. My son sleeps just fine in his crib, as long as his crib is right next to our bed. Everyone is happy and well rested now. And I didn't have to give up the bonding we had when co sleeping. We've also been putting him to bed a good hour earlier, which has also really helped. Seriously, thank you all.

Maladroit · January 2015

As a nurse, I have to preach "safe sleep" at work and COMPLETELY get why, but at home for the last month, the only way to get my son to stay asleep at night is to kick DH to the spare bedroom and bring LO in the bed with me. I do the best I can to keep it as safe as possible - remove all pillows except the one I use, keep LO a safe distance away from me (luckily neither of us move/roll very much in our sleep), keep the comforter away from him, and put some thick blanketing on the ground in the rare event he falls off, our huge bed and him being a solid, still sleeper make that a tiny risk at best right now. I also keep the paci in his mouth as much as possible since that also reduces SIDS risk. He slept great in his crib for the first 5 or so months and now we're struggling to get him to sleep in his crib, but I can honestly say, I love sleeping with my son!

princess1686 · January 2015

Yeah, I love sleeping next to my son too! Have you tried putting your crib right next to your bed, @Maladroit‌ ? That worked for us. I really appreciate the perspective on safe sleep!

PaoPao820 · January 2015

I hate that about pediatrician's.... I actually just don't tell our pediatrician about our sleeping arrangement and just say DS sleeps in his crib and that's it. I just don't want to deal with explaining.

We have a similar situation except my son has not slept through the night since being born and he's almost 8months old. I'm waiting for the morning when I wake up fully engorged because I haven't fed him and realize it's been like 8 hours straight through. I would love that! I would love even like a 5 hour chunk! Ours has been having trouble sleeping too. I can't offer advice, although it seems your situation is good now, but I can commiserate. And I hope that my guy will start to sleep but I know that teething, milestones, wonder weeks and all those other things can affect sleep too.

princess1686 · January 2015

@PaoPao820‌, lol. I've been lucky that my son has slept straight through many nights, but none in the last two months. On most nights I'll get a straight 5-6 hour block, if luck is on my side. But he loves his late night feedings, and last night, even though he only actually woke up twice, it took over an hour each time to get him back down. You'd think, from how he protests, that we never feed him! Teething hasn't given us any grief lately, but right now he's borderline obsessed with learning how to crawl, so as soon as I put him down he rolls right over onto his tummy (pushing the importance of a safe sleep environment) and he'll actually even practice crawling in his sleep! Got to admire that dedication! But then, in exchange for making so many late night trips to eat at Mom's last night, we slept in together this morning until almost 10am. There's definitely something to be said about being tired, and then being over tired. I hope you get some more sleep soon!

MommyAtty · January 2015

I really don't care if anyone co-sleeps, uses a side-car, etc., but regardless of your arrangement, a 9:30-10:00 bedtime is honestly about 3 hours too late. Babies at this age need 2-3 hours per day in naps and about 11-12 hours at night. If your baby is staying up that late, the reason he isn't sleeping is because he's so tired, he's gone beyond the second wind into zombie-zone. (Have you ever pulled an all-nighter, then had to work or be at school the next day? Then when you had time to sleep, you were too wired to relax? That's kinda how your baby feels.) Our 8 mo old was a great sleeper until about 4 weeks ago. We had pushed his bedtime to 7:30 because evenings were hectic and it just kind of happened. Last week, we moved it to 7:00, and magically he's back to sleeping through the night. Also, look for tired cues. At the first eye-rub or yawn, start your wind-down routine and get him to bed. I promise, it works. I'm on kid #2, and both of mine have been thrown completely out of whack by a bedtime after 7:00. My 2 year old now goes to sleep at 8:00.

princess1686 · January 2015

Thanks for the advice @MommyAtty . For the record, we don't put him down that late anymore. We're up to an 8pm bed time, and we're moving it up a little bit every night. He's been doing much better since we started fixing the kinks in his bedtime routine.

niconoell · January 2015

Maybe it's time to look for a new pediatrician. I know we all seek advice from doctors, but earning a medical degree does not make someone a child rearing or patenting expert. That's not what they are teaching people in medical school. You know your baby best, and you know what works well for your family.

If co-sleeping works well for your family, find the safest way for your child to co-sleep. Being a new mom is tough enough as is, we are tired, overwhelmed, and worried about everything. You don't need to add being completely sleep deprived to that list just because your pedi is against co-sleeping. I nurse my little one to sleep at night, because that's what works for us and keeps her happy. Sometimes she naps on me during the day, because she loves to cuddle, and it's a special time for us to snuggle and be close to one another. Trust your instincts, you should be enjoying this special bonding time with your child, you know what is best for them.

princess1686 · January 2015

Honestly I love our pediatrician. I don't blame him for this, he was just voicing the official position of the AAP, and he gave us a lot of help in finding a solution that was both doctor approved and comfortable for our baby. And I totally agree, he and I don't have to see eye to eye about all my parenting decisions, as long as my son is safe and healthy. Good for you for doing what is best for your family too, @niconoell‌ .

amackattack · January 2015

@mommyatty What you say doesn't take into account that maybe that baby with the 930-10 bedtime is also sleeping 11-12 hours at night and just waking up later at like 830-9. My child goes to bed at 9:30PM and wakes up at 9AM. 11.5 hours of sleep. She also has 2-3 naps throughout the day.

I don't understand why people make blanket statements about early bedtimes for babies. If your child is staying up until 10 and getting up at 6 then yeah, that's obviously not enough sleep for a baby. But why do you assume baby is getting up early too and not sleeping in?

MommyAtty · January 2015

@amackattack‌ - Because it's phenomenally, exceedingly rare for any baby to sleep past 7:00. And frankly I wouldn't want to get into that kind of rhythm since your kiddo will probably go to school at some point, and school starts significantly before 10:00. If you're planning to homeschool, I guess that's a different circumstance.

amackattack · January 2015

It just doesn't seem like that big of a deal that in 2+ years I will have to one day get her up earlier than she's used to. By the end of the day that day she'll be so tired she'll want to go to bed earlier. It's exactly what we do now...if we have a reason to get up earlier in the day, she goes to bed earlier that night because she's tired.

I just think the focus should be more on the number of hours of sleep and less on what times of day they fall, and luckily my pedi agrees with that. But, like you said, you are far in the majority on this topic so we'll see if this strategy messes things up down the line for us!

princess1686 · January 2015

For the record, of late my son's been sleeping 8:30pm-9am, with 1 night feeding, and then takes 2 ish naps. So I guess I have one of those rare late sleeping babies?

MommyAtty · January 2015

princess1686 said:

For the record, of late my son's been sleeping 8:30pm-9am, with 1 night feeding, and then takes 2 ish naps. So I guess I have one of those rare late sleeping babies?

No, actually, you have a baby who doesn't sleep through the night. If you want to get him sleeping through, you might want to try an earlier bedtime.

And yeah, he will probably wake up earlier then. If mine wakes in the night (which is rare except he did go thru a 3 week regression where he woke once per night when he was learning to crawl), he sleeps later.

princess1686 · January 2015

Ah, well. Last night he slept from 8ish until 7, straight through the night. So, whatever I'm doing, it's working.

Zipfeldad · January 2015

Hey girls,

I just mentioned it in another post already: I have been through the same thing with my twin boys. It's their 1st bday TODAY (yay!) and I can tell you:

1. it can change completely arbitrarily every day/night!

2. mine do not sleep through every night either still...

But there are things you can experiment with in case you have not tried them yet:

1. Osanit. That's homeopathic stuff helping with itching teeth (you can get it in any pharmacy, it is cheaper in online pharmacies though!)

2. Sleepy discs. Those are sort of discs you put under your cot's feet to turn it into a cradle (you better check on your own what it is exactly on the manufacturer's website thesleepyhelp.com)

3. Put something in the bed that smells of you

4. Make the crib warm before you put your LO down

5. Have some white noise on

6. PLEASE DO NOT USE CRY-IT-OUT!

Here is some more stuff you can read about routines: https://www.thesleepyhelp.com/how-to-get-baby-to-sleep-regularly-peace-mind/

For me, #1 & #2 help best. I hope any of this will help! Don't give up, you are not alone.

Nicole3&counting · January 2015

Mine sleeps from 10pm to 9 pm in the morning and takes 2 good naps during the day. 2 of my four were like that. Every baby is different and it is about the amount of hours not the time they go down. I have had 4 good sleepers and they all had different schedules.

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