PGS and PGD testing and still miscarried

pat7638 · January 2015

Hi ladies.....I posted here a couple weeks ago because I had my 4th miscarriage (well 2 chemicals and 1 D&C and 1 natural miscarriage at 7 weeks. I am waiting for AF and then possibly will try another FET in March. I am so discouraged because this was a "perfect" embryo that had PGD and PGS testing......my lining was excellent at 11.....Progesterone good at 31.....just started bleeding and it got heavier and heavier..

Baby's hb was 113....126....132....everything looked perfect and yet another disappointment.....I thought that the testing would have caught any chromosonal defects but maybe that is not my problem. I have a 3 yr old daughter and had no issue except LPD which didn't stop my pregnancy.

Has anyone had a mis with this testing? My RE said it happens but I am not convinced...and by way I had the RPL in August and all normal......
This really sucks....Thanks for listening....

efhoping2010 · January 2015

No experience but just wanted to say I am really sorry for your losses

fuzzbumble · January 2015

I'm so sorry. I don't have any insight, but ((big hugs)).

pdxveg · January 2015

I do have any experience either, but I am so sorry for your losses.

Jen071407 · January 2015

I'm so sorry. Going the extra lengths and still getting the rug pulled out from under you is just plain awful.

I just had my genetic consultation prior to moving forward with PGS, and the doctor did touch on this possibility. 1 thing she said was sometimes it can be a perfectly healthy embryo, but somewhere in the cell division something goes wrong. The other thing she said is that (someone correct me if I'm explaining this inaccurately) an embryo essentially has two parts - 1 that becomes the baby and 1 that becomes the placenta. When they take the biopsy of the embryo there is no way to know for sure if you are testing what will become the placenta vs. the baby, and it's possible the placenta can be tested and appear fine, but the baby part has abnormalities.

Frenchteachermama · January 2015

No advice but just wanted to say how sorry I am.

fuzzbumble · January 2015

Jen071407 said:

I'm so sorry. Going the extra lengths and still getting the rug pulled out from under you is just plain awful. I just had my genetic consultation prior to moving forward with PGS, and the doctor did touch on this possibility. 1 thing she said was sometimes it can be a perfectly healthy embryo, but somewhere in the cell division something goes wrong. The other thing she said is that (someone correct me if I'm explaining this inaccurately) an embryo essentially has two parts - 1 that becomes the baby and 1 that becomes the placenta. When they take the biopsy of the embryo there is no way to know for sure if you are testing what will become the placenta vs. the baby, and it's possible the placenta can be tested and appear fine, but the baby part has abnormalities.

Yes, this! Our genetic counselor said the same. Also, that sometimes the test comes back normal but there was actually a chromosomal issue that the lab missed. That they are confident they discard only abnormal embryos, but they can't be 100% the deemed normal actually are.

Flamingemu · January 2015

I am sorry, I can't offer adivce, but I wanted to offer my sympathy. I am sorry for your loss.

ellebelle2384 · January 2015

No advice but I just wanted to say I'm so sorry for your loss. That's so heartbreaking.

xraymommy2007 · January 2015

I have no advice. But I wanted to say I'm so sorry for your loss
((hugs))

cshm11 · January 2015

I haven't had PGS or PGD testing, but when we had our consultation, our doctor said that there are other problems that can occur, like implantation failure. Part of the problem for me is the APS, so they think I'm throwing mini-clots that prevent a baby from implanting. Have you had all that tested? If yes, maybe it would be worth adding a blood thinner (lovenox and baby aspirin) prophylactically, and maybe a steroid to prevent an inflammatory issue?

I'm so sorry for your loss

It's absolutely awful, and I hope you can take time to grieve and heal.

annibes · January 2015

I am so sorry for your loss.

Jodee37 · January 2015

Jen071407 said:

an embryo essentially has two parts - 1 that becomes the baby and 1 that becomes the placenta. When they take the biopsy of the embryo there is no way to know for sure if you are testing what will become the placenta vs. the baby, and it's possible the placenta can be tested and appear fine, but the baby part has abnormalities.

jen#'s is nearly spot-on here. but in PGS/PGD sampling (and someone please chime in here if i am off-base) they are testing the outer trophectoderm of the embroyo. it is the outer ring of the embryo which goes on to become the placenta. there is no technology available right now that can test the inner cell mass, which becomes the baby itself. some REs argue that fact alone should deter women who are doing this test in hopes of preventing m/c, since you're not even testing the baby.

i'm sorry you had the shittiest of luck your last pg. it unfortunately comes down to the plain fact that PGS/PGD is not a guarantee. just like everything else in this fucked up world of infertility.

i hope you are able to find peace with your loss somewhere down the road. having had 4 miscarriages myself, i know how difficult it is grasping at straws for reasons why it happened.

big hugs lady.

MoFree · January 2015

I am so sorry for your losses. I also suggest immunologic testing.

Jen071407 · January 2015

Jodee37 said:

Jen071407 said:

an embryo essentially has two parts - 1 that becomes the baby and 1 that becomes the placenta. When they take the biopsy of the embryo there is no way to know for sure if you are testing what will become the placenta vs. the baby, and it's possible the placenta can be tested and appear fine, but the baby part has abnormalities.

jen#'s is nearly spot-on here. but in PGS/PGD sampling (and someone please chime in here if i am off-base) they are testing the outer trophectoderm of the embroyo. it is the outer ring of the embryo which goes on to become the placenta. there is no technology available right now that can test the inner cell mass, which becomes the baby itself. some REs argue that fact alone should deter women who are doing this test in hopes of preventing m/c, since you're not even testing the baby.

This is really intriguing me so I did a little research, and wise nurse @jodee37 is correct! No surprise there

The cells biopsied ARE future placenta. My genetics doctor must have said that there can be differences between those placenta cells tested (that T word is too hard to type) and the inner fetus cells.

sandy8423 · November 2016

Hi Pat7638,

First of all, I am sorry for your losses I am in the same situation now, my pgs/pgd embryo miscarried by 7.5 weeks after seeing 156bpm heart beat.i am waiting for my and the fetus genetic reports.Have you went for second FET or have you found out the reasons.
Including this i already had 5 miscarriages and yet to have my first child and in TTC for 8 years.Its very scary now, likely a lonely child in a dark forest.

Mishelle62 · January 2017

Hi, I just wanted to say that I am so sorry for your losses and that my story is very similar to yours. I also miscarried after seeing a HB using a pgs tested embryo. I also had an ectopic with a pgs tested embryo but that has to be a fluke. I've also had countless chemical pregnancies that were without ivf. I hope you get answers and wishing you good luck with your next transfer.

embryoman · July 2018

Embryologist here. Yes you guys are correct! When embryos are eligible for biopsying they are made up of the inner cell mass (becomes fetus) and the trophectoderm (becomes placenta). Picture a blown up balloon (trophectoderm) with a small ball stuck on the inside at one position (inner cell mass).

When an embryo is tested we use a laser to remove a small (4-6 cell) chunk from the trophectoderm (typically there's about 100 cells in the trophectoderm at the biopsy-eligible stage). We don't want to remove cells from the inner cell mass as this will likely destroy the embryo. The trophectoderm cells are sent for testing and this gives us information on the trophectoderm and not the inner cell mass. Since the biopsied trophectoderm cells originated from parent cells that also made up the inner cell mass, we infer that the status of these cells is the same. However sometimes a mutation occurs in one subset of cells and this creates a mosaic embryo. Here we have an embryo that has 2 (or more) cells that are genetically different and if there is a serious mutation in cells of the inner cell mass this could lead to a miscarriage. Checking just 4-6 cells out of the whole embryo (100+ cells) sometimes doesn't give us the whole story!

Hope that helps.

sweethanrahan · September 2018

Have you ever had a hysteroscopy done? I had 5 miscarriages (and I have 2 healthy children) before they did a hysteroscopy and found all kinds of things in there that could/should explain my miscarriages. I've had every other test under the sun and did PGS on all my embroys (and ALL of them were normal) so I think sometimes it's not the embryos themselves but something else that could be going on. I'm so sorry for your loss, I know how crappy that is.

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